2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

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Who is leading the MVP race?

Nikola Jokic
155
46%
Giannis Antetokounmpo
29
9%
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
128
38%
Jayson Tatum
10
3%
Donovan Mitchell
2
1%
Victor Wembanyama
3
1%
LeBron James
1
0%
Jalen Brunson
3
1%
Anthony Edwards
1
0%
Other (AD, Durant, Steph, Trae, JJJ, Sengun, Sabonis, Cade, Lamelo, Kyrie etc. - poll is limited to 10 options)
5
1%
 
Total votes: 337

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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#161 » by AleksandarN » Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:27 pm

OkcSinceSGA wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
OkcSinceSGA wrote:
It’s the best guard season besides MJ statistically. Deal with it

Deal with what? I replied to his post that was false


And the data says otherwise.

And that has nothing to do with my reply to HIS post.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#162 » by OkcSinceSGA » Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:34 pm

AleksandarN wrote:
OkcSinceSGA wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:Deal with what? I replied to his post that was false


And the data says otherwise.

And that has nothing to do with my reply to HIS post.


You post on a forum, people other than the person you're directly replying to are going to jump in. Maybe stick to DMing him if you want 1 on 1 sweet time pal. Your argument was "Well people are saying he's having a season on par with MJ"... which isn't the same thing anyway as people saying Jokic has already surpassed Kareem, LeBron etc. It's saying that this ONE singular season so far is Jordan tier, or only behind Jordan as a guard.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#163 » by Doctor MJ » Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:39 pm

So I'll tell you, I don't think we have any kind of gap on record for raw +/- like we're currently seeing from Shai.

With Shai at 521 and Jokic 2nd at 337, that means Shai has 54.6% higher numbers than anyone else in the league. Really insane.

I still think Jokic has a real case for MVP here - it's insane he's #2 on the list - but a season like the one Shai is having just screams "The voters are going to side with him", and well-deserved.

Depending on how the playoffs go, we might start getting into some bloodsport over who the #1 draft pick in 2018 should have been between Shai & Luka.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#164 » by AleksandarN » Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:49 pm

OkcSinceSGA wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
OkcSinceSGA wrote:
And the data says otherwise.

And that has nothing to do with my reply to HIS post.


You post on a forum, people other than the person you're directly replying to are going to jump in. Maybe stick to DMing him if you want 1 on 1 sweet time pal. Your argument was "Well people are saying he's having a season on par with MJ"... which isn't the same thing anyway as people saying Jokic has already surpassed Kareem, LeBron etc. It's saying that this ONE singular season so far is Jordan tier, or only behind Jordan as a guard.

Look I said what he said was incorrect. My actual reply didn’t indicate anything other than what he wrote which again was incorrect. So again your replies has nothing to do with my correction of his post.

P.S. I don’t need your attitude of “deal with it”. I have never once gave you attitude with my interactions with you . I expect the same respect
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#165 » by AleksandarN » Fri Jan 17, 2025 6:54 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:So I'll tell you, I don't think we have any kind of gap on record for raw +/- like we're currently seeing from Shai.

With Shai at 521 and Jokic 2nd at 337, that means Shai has 54.6% higher numbers than anyone else in the league. Really insane.

I still think Jokic has a real case for MVP here - it's insane he's #2 on the list - but a season like the one Shai is having just screams "The voters are going to side with him", and well-deserved.

Depending on how the playoffs go, we might start getting into some bloodsport over who the #1 draft pick in 2018 should have been between Shai & Luka.

Yeah I have SGA ahead of jokic right now for MVP
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#166 » by OkcSinceSGA » Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:25 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:So I'll tell you, I don't think we have any kind of gap on record for raw +/- like we're currently seeing from Shai.

With Shai at 521 and Jokic 2nd at 337, that means Shai has 54.6% higher numbers than anyone else in the league. Really insane.

I still think Jokic has a real case for MVP here - it's insane he's #2 on the list - but a season like the one Shai is having just screams "The voters are going to side with him", and well-deserved.

Depending on how the playoffs go, we might start getting into some bloodsport over who the #1 draft pick in 2018 should have been between Shai & Luka.


Not only this but another debate likely to come up is... 3 years ago I said the 2018 draft could go down as the greatest ever, possibly surpassing 1996, 2003, and 1984. I was ridiculed and attacked mercilessly on this. But if you end up having SGA/Luka go down as top 10-15 players ever... or top 5 at their positions, Brunson is a perennial all star/low tier MVP candidate, Trae and JJJ going down as first ballot HOFers (I think this could easily happen if they win rings, or Trae gets to a contending team), and a ton of good role players....

Look at this class broken into my tiers.

MVP's/Top 10 all time potential:
SGA
Luka

Perennial all star/low tier MVP:
Brunson
Trae

Potentially make a couple all star teams:
JJJ
Mikael Bridges

Long careers as productive role players, maybe peak as a 1x all star:

MPJ
Miles Bridges
Moritz Wagner
Ayton

Useful role players:

Wendall Carter Jr
Colin Sexton
DiVincenzo
Lonnie Walker Jr
Josh Okogie
Grayson Allen
Anfernee Simons
Mitchell Robinson
Robert Williams
Shake Milton
Kevin Huerter
Landry Shamet
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#167 » by OkcSinceSGA » Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:26 pm

AleksandarN wrote:
OkcSinceSGA wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:And that has nothing to do with my reply to HIS post.


You post on a forum, people other than the person you're directly replying to are going to jump in. Maybe stick to DMing him if you want 1 on 1 sweet time pal. Your argument was "Well people are saying he's having a season on par with MJ"... which isn't the same thing anyway as people saying Jokic has already surpassed Kareem, LeBron etc. It's saying that this ONE singular season so far is Jordan tier, or only behind Jordan as a guard.

Look I said what he said was incorrect. My actual reply didn’t indicate anything other than what he wrote which again was incorrect. So again your replies has nothing to do with my correction of his post.

P.S. I don’t need your attitude of “deal with it”. I have never once gave you attitude with my interactions with you . I expect the same respect


Oh stop man. We are just a big happy family on RealGM. Sometimes I have to fight people, but it's for the greater good.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#168 » by scrabbarista » Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:34 pm

I changed my vote to SGA today. I don't expect to keep it there for too long, but I would put him a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny bit ahead of Jokic right now. Still kind of coin flippable, but I would vote for SGA as of this afternoon.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#169 » by scrabbarista » Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:42 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Pretty crazy with the kind of season Jokic is having that SGA is the runaway MVP right now, but here we are.


It's mostly because Jokic has conditioned people to think, "Top three in scoring, rebounding, and assists? Nah... Oh, and fourth in steals, too? Nah... Oh, and second best from three? Uhh... nah..."

If we didn't have the context of previous Jokic seasons, I think we'd understand that what he's doing is more special, more worth commemorating, and yes, more valuable than what SGA is doing, but as I said like a month ago, "If it's close, SGA will win by a ton." That's where we are right now.

All of that said, I would actually vote for SGA today, but this is probably the first day of the entire season I would say that, so I'm assuming things will "return to the mean," so to speak, for me before long.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#170 » by OkcSinceSGA » Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:47 pm

scrabbarista wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Pretty crazy with the kind of season Jokic is having that SGA is the runaway MVP right now, but here we are.


It's mostly because Jokic has conditioned people to think, "Top three in scoring, rebounding, and assists? Nah... Oh, and fourth in steals, too? Nah... Oh, and second best from three? Uhh... nah..."

If we didn't have the context of previous Jokic seasons, I think we'd understand that what he's doing is more special, more worth commemorating, and yes, more valuable than what SGA is doing, but as I said like a month ago, "If it's close, SGA will win by a ton." That's where we are right now.

All that said, I would actually vote for SGA today, but this is probably the first day of the entire season I would say that, so I'm assuming things will "return to the mean," so to speak, for me before long.


I would still argue that even with equal team records SGA has an argument. That's I guess what I don't get with this debate. WHY exactly is Jokic so much better to you individually? I look on paper at stats and sure, Jokic's raw stats are way more eye opening. Especially a 7 foot C racking up 10 apg... but then I wonder why SGA is beating him out in several all encompassing impact metrics?

Why are these particular stats saying SGA's individual impact is greater in spite of Joker's better counting stats? I think the gap in team record is a tiebreaker of sorts, but NOT the main factor as some seem to be implying.

PS... This week SGA jumped from like 8.4 EPM to now 9. SGA's defensive leap is factoring heavily. He's at 2.6+ DEPM
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#171 » by AleksandarN » Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:49 pm

OkcSinceSGA wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
OkcSinceSGA wrote:
You post on a forum, people other than the person you're directly replying to are going to jump in. Maybe stick to DMing him if you want 1 on 1 sweet time pal. Your argument was "Well people are saying he's having a season on par with MJ"... which isn't the same thing anyway as people saying Jokic has already surpassed Kareem, LeBron etc. It's saying that this ONE singular season so far is Jordan tier, or only behind Jordan as a guard.

Look I said what he said was incorrect. My actual reply didn’t indicate anything other than what he wrote which again was incorrect. So again your replies has nothing to do with my correction of his post.

P.S. I don’t need your attitude of “deal with it”. I have never once gave you attitude with my interactions with you . I expect the same respect


Oh stop man. We are just a big happy family on RealGM. Sometimes I have to fight people, but it's for the greater good.

Stop? Maybe be less rude and take responsibility how you deal with people on here.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#172 » by OkcSinceSGA » Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:50 pm

AleksandarN wrote:
OkcSinceSGA wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:Look I said what he said was incorrect. My actual reply didn’t indicate anything other than what he wrote which again was incorrect. So again your replies has nothing to do with my correction of his post.

P.S. I don’t need your attitude of “deal with it”. I have never once gave you attitude with my interactions with you . I expect the same respect


Oh stop man. We are just a big happy family on RealGM. Sometimes I have to fight people, but it's for the greater good.

Stop? Maybe be less rude and take responsibility how you deal with people on here.


I do it for the greater good of RealGM.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#173 » by Ron Swanson » Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:57 pm

Nah, I'm not buying the voter fatigue narrative anymore. It's a complete disservice to SGA putting up the best two-way regular season since 2020 Giannis. SGA without OKC's 2nd (or 3rd if you wanna be nit-picky) best player has them steam-rolling the league to a +18.3 on-court net-rating and currently a 70-win pace. This is 2016 Curry, just not as flashy. These are quite literally MVP Lebron box numbers (30+ PER, .300+ WS/48, 11.8 BPM, easily on pace for 200+ Ts added). This is greatness we're witnessing. He's been every definition of a dominant MVP campaign, and there's no shame in Jokic being 2nd. At some point, results need to matter.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#174 » by OkcSinceSGA » Fri Jan 17, 2025 8:00 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Nah, I'm not buying the voter fatigue narrative anymore. It's a complete disservice to SGA putting up the best two-way regular season since 2020 Giannis. SGA without OKC's 2nd (or 3rd if you wanna be nit-picky) best player has them steam-rolling the league to a +18.3 on-court net-rating and currently a 70-win pace. This is 2016 Curry, just not as flashy. These are quite literally MVP Lebron box numbers (30+ PER, .300+ WS/48, 11.8 BPM, easily on pace for 200+ Ts added). This is greatness we're witnessing. He's been every definition of a dominant MVP campaign, and there's no shame in Jokic being 2nd. At some point, results need to matter.


That's exactly what I am saying is insulting to me. Acting like SGA's only argument is that the Thunder are pacing 70 wins. Even if both won 50 games SGA has a great argument. So great post! Anyone know where SGA's +9 EPM ranks all time? I don't pay for full membership.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#175 » by scrabbarista » Fri Jan 17, 2025 8:06 pm

OkcSinceSGA wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Pretty crazy with the kind of season Jokic is having that SGA is the runaway MVP right now, but here we are.


It's mostly because Jokic has conditioned people to think, "Top three in scoring, rebounding, and assists? Nah... Oh, and fourth in steals, too? Nah... Oh, and second best from three? Uhh... nah..."

If we didn't have the context of previous Jokic seasons, I think we'd understand that what he's doing is more special, more worth commemorating, and yes, more valuable than what SGA is doing, but as I said like a month ago, "If it's close, SGA will win by a ton." That's where we are right now.

All that said, I would actually vote for SGA today, but this is probably the first day of the entire season I would say that, so I'm assuming things will "return to the mean," so to speak, for me before long.


I would still argue that even with equal team records SGA has an argument. That's I guess what I don't get with this debate. WHY exactly is Jokic so much better to you individually? I look on paper at stats and sure, Jokic's raw stats are way more eye opening. Especially a 7 foot C racking up 10 apg... but then I wonder why SGA is beating him out in several all encompassing impact metrics?

Why are these particular stats saying SGA's individual impact is greater in spite of Joker's better counting stats? I think the gap in team record is a tiebreaker of sorts, but NOT the main factor as some seem to be implying.

PS... This week SGA jumped from like 8.4 EPM to now 9. SGA's defensive leap is factoring heavily. He's at 2.6+ DEPM


It's possible the impact stats are saying SGA has been more impactful because he has been more impactful.

As I said, I would vote for him today.

But the impact stats that I've seen (wish they were easier to find) are all pretty close between the two. Within a "margin of error," you might say.

And it wouldn't surprise me at all if Jokic leads some he now trails by season's end.

And they aren't gospel, as we see from the fact that they're constantly being tweaked and reformulated and replaced.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#176 » by Special_Puppy » Fri Jan 17, 2025 8:11 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:So I'll tell you, I don't think we have any kind of gap on record for raw +/- like we're currently seeing from Shai.

With Shai at 521 and Jokic 2nd at 337, that means Shai has 54.6% higher numbers than anyone else in the league. Really insane.

I still think Jokic has a real case for MVP here - it's insane he's #2 on the list - but a season like the one Shai is having just screams "The voters are going to side with him", and well-deserved.

Depending on how the playoffs go, we might start getting into some bloodsport over who the #1 draft pick in 2018 should have been between Shai & Luka.


Interestingly Basketball Reference's MVP tracker still has Jokic ahead even though team wins is a big factor. But yeah if the gap in wins is over 15 by the end the season then obviously Jokic is completely toast
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#177 » by Woodsanity » Fri Jan 17, 2025 8:13 pm

I still consider Jokic the superior player but its fine to have SGA over him right now MVP wise and I've been saying it for a while now.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#178 » by Special_Puppy » Fri Jan 17, 2025 8:20 pm

Ron Swanson wrote:Nah, I'm not buying the voter fatigue narrative anymore. It's a complete disservice to SGA putting up the best two-way regular season since 2020 Giannis. SGA without OKC's 2nd (or 3rd if you wanna be nit-picky) best player has them steam-rolling the league to a +18.3 on-court net-rating and currently a 70-win pace. This is 2016 Curry, just not as flashy. These are quite literally MVP Lebron box numbers (30+ PER, .300+ WS/48, 11.8 BPM, easily on pace for 200+ Ts added). This is greatness we're witnessing. He's been every definition of a dominant MVP campaign, and there's no shame in Jokic being 2nd. At some point, results need to matter.


Jokic also has a 30+ PER, 0.300+ WS/48, 10+ BPM, etc. What do you mean at "some point, results need to matter?"
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#179 » by Special_Puppy » Fri Jan 17, 2025 8:23 pm

OkcSinceSGA wrote:
Ron Swanson wrote:Nah, I'm not buying the voter fatigue narrative anymore. It's a complete disservice to SGA putting up the best two-way regular season since 2020 Giannis. SGA without OKC's 2nd (or 3rd if you wanna be nit-picky) best player has them steam-rolling the league to a +18.3 on-court net-rating and currently a 70-win pace. This is 2016 Curry, just not as flashy. These are quite literally MVP Lebron box numbers (30+ PER, .300+ WS/48, 11.8 BPM, easily on pace for 200+ Ts added). This is greatness we're witnessing. He's been every definition of a dominant MVP campaign, and there's no shame in Jokic being 2nd. At some point, results need to matter.


That's exactly what I am saying is insulting to me. Acting like SGA's only argument is that the Thunder are pacing 70 wins. Even if both won 50 games SGA has a great argument. So great post! Anyone know where SGA's +9 EPM ranks all time? I don't pay for full membership.


SGA is having an ATG season so obviously he has a great argument regardless of record. With that being said, SGA obviously wouldn't be such a clear favorite if the difference in record between the Thunder and Nuggets was minimal instead of a chasm. SGA might still be ahead, but it would probably be more like -125 SGA instead of -250 SGA
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Re: 2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#180 » by OkcSinceSGA » Fri Jan 17, 2025 8:24 pm

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