Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[Thaddy]

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Yeah that was weird. He had a pretty terrible game today and lost the battle against Giannis. He's more of a Siakam level player than a true number 1, that would set up back a lot further than what Masai thinks. I don't think he's evaluating Barnes well. We need to find the center piece in the draft and he knows that. He said it himself there's no free agency anymore, players already know where they want to go. I am almost positive he's aware we should be tanking and he is doing it.

[Psubs]

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Yeah that was weird. He had a pretty terrible game today and lost the battle against Giannis. He's more of a Siakam level player than a true number 1, that would set up back a lot further than what Masai thinks. I don't think he's evaluating Barnes well. We need to find the center piece in the draft and he knows that. He said it himself there's no free agency anymore, players already know where they want to go. I am almost positive he's aware we should be tanking and he is doing it.

Scottie is Chris Webber.

[Los_29]

Can’t give anyone the keys to a team when they have these kinds of limitations. This draft is huge. Scottie isn’t even the most talented scorer on the team. He is our best player though. 3rd option but 2nd best player is where he needs to be.

[tsherkin]

Can we stop overrating the progress hes made on offense? Hes made none and is an extremely limited scorer. Hes not that guy as much as i want him to be

Who has been overrating his progress?

Anyway, he had some clean looks in this one and they just weren't falling. That happens when you're jumper-heavy. The turnaround on the left block looked reasonable, but wasn't falling; might have been settling for it a little too easily. The passing was good. Pull-up left side looked nice, even if it missed. He was trash from 3, absolute trash. Air ball-level trash on some pretty clean looks. Overall he was pretty slithery in the key. Had that nice finger roll in the second half, for example.

And in all fairness, the refs were a little off in that game. That was probably just a minor thing, but he was definitely catching some BS calls.

I think at this point, everyone is recognizing that he isn't "that" guy, as some of us have been saying for a while. But he was showcasing a lot of other stuff in this game, and it's not like we have a lot of better options at the moment. His D was good, his rebounding was reasonable, his passing was excellent. Rough shooting night. The looks he was getting were good, they just weren't falling.

[MiamiSPX]

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Giannis is putting up 31/12/6 on the season and will be among the top vote getters for MVP for the 9th consecutive season. Arguably a top 3 player in the world.

I cannot express enough how atrocious Scottie was last night, but getting cooked by Giannis here isn't the flex that guy thinks it is. Giannis has been cooking everyone for almost a decade now lol.

[tsherkin]

but getting cooked by Giannis here isn't the flex that guy thinks it is. Giannis has been cooking everyone for almost a decade now lol.

Very true. He's working on his third-straight season of 30+ and averaged 29.8 ppg over the 5 years prior to the current season. Dude's been smashing through folk for years. 2-time MVP, DPOY, like, getting cooked by the best of the best is no sin.

[Tripod]

Can we stop overrating the progress hes made on offense? Hes made none and is an extremely limited scorer. Hes not that guy as much as i want him to be

It's your own fault thinking we was "that guy".

Most agree he is a 3rd scoring option guy who can get you 20+ on any given night along with filling the stat sheet elsewhere.

Problem is we have no #1 scorer so him and RJ get the most shots

He is going to be paid near-max, how is it others fault to think a near-max player wasn't "that guy".

Barrett is being paid like a 3rd scoring option.

Did RJ win ROTY? No
Has RJ been an All Star? No
RJ also signed his contract 2 years before Barnes did. Contracts have gone up.

And again, about Barnes being paid near max, he was the only ROTY and only All Star from his draft class when everyone signed....DESPITE being the guy most thought would take longer to reach his potential. Raps had no legs to stand on to offer way less than others in his draft class got.

Like Lowry, Barnes can be the 3rd scoring option but 2nd best all around player on a good team. We just don't have that top scorer who slots others into a more natural slot.

Oh, and speaking of Kyle, in year 4 he was a:
9.1pt, 3.6reb, 4.5ast guy shooting 27.2% from 3
Maybe let's just have a little patience with our:
20-8-6.5 guy. Development is never linear.

Oh, and before I get labeled as something, if we ever get to consolidate for a star, Barnes should not be deemed untouchable. No one should.

[Indeed]

It's your own fault thinking we was "that guy".

Most agree he is a 3rd scoring option guy who can get you 20+ on any given night along with filling the stat sheet elsewhere.

Problem is we have no #1 scorer so him and RJ get the most shots

He is going to be paid near-max, how is it others fault to think a near-max player wasn't "that guy".

Barrett is being paid like a 3rd scoring option.

Did RJ win ROTY? No
Has RJ been an All Star? No
RJ also signed his contract 2 years before Barnes did. Contracts have gone up.

And again, about Barnes being paid near max, he was the only ROTY and only All Star from his draft class when everyone signed....DESPITE being the guy most thought would take longer to reach his potential. Raps had no legs to stand on to offer way less than others in his draft class got.

Like Lowry, Barnes can be the 3rd scoring option but 2nd best all around player on a good team. We just don't have that top scorer who slots others into a more natural slot.

Oh, and speaking of Kyle, in year 4 he was a:
9.1pt, 3.6reb, 4.5ast guy shooting 27.2% from 3
Maybe let's just have a little patience with our:
20-8-6.5 guy. Development is never linear.

Oh, and before I get labeled as something, if we ever get to consolidate for a star, Barnes should not be deemed untouchable. No one should.

You failed to understand the logic here.
Barnes being paid near-max (like previously Siakam) is asked to carry the team.

Meanwhile, Lowry is more than about 3 point shooting. Lowry free throw rate was over 50%, while Barnes is half of Lowry.
It is silly that you think 3 point shooting is the only reason of Lowry being great. It is just something Barnes can easily added and being a borderline near-max player, not even close to Lowry being a rim pressure.

[SFour]

Can’t give anyone the keys to a team when they have these kinds of limitations. This draft is huge. Scottie isn’t even the most talented scorer on the team. He is our best player though. 3rd option but 2nd best player is where he needs to be.

He's still a player you'd want on your team....just need to add more young talent....and hopefully it's top 3 pick talent.

[Tripod]

He is going to be paid near-max, how is it others fault to think a near-max player wasn't "that guy".

Barrett is being paid like a 3rd scoring option.

Did RJ win ROTY? No
Has RJ been an All Star? No
RJ also signed his contract 2 years before Barnes did. Contracts have gone up.

And again, about Barnes being paid near max, he was the only ROTY and only All Star from his draft class when everyone signed....DESPITE being the guy most thought would take longer to reach his potential. Raps had no legs to stand on to offer way less than others in his draft class got.

Like Lowry, Barnes can be the 3rd scoring option but 2nd best all around player on a good team. We just don't have that top scorer who slots others into a more natural slot.

Oh, and speaking of Kyle, in year 4 he was a:
9.1pt, 3.6reb, 4.5ast guy shooting 27.2% from 3
Maybe let's just have a little patience with our:
20-8-6.5 guy. Development is never linear.

Oh, and before I get labeled as something, if we ever get to consolidate for a star, Barnes should not be deemed untouchable. No one should.

You failed to understand the logic here.
Barnes being paid near-max (like previously Siakam) is asked to carry the team.

Meanwhile, Lowry is more than about 3 point shooting. Lowry free throw rate was over 50%, while Barnes is half of Lowry.
It is silly that you think 3 point shooting is the only reason of Lowry being great. It is just something Barnes can easily added and being a borderline near-max player, not even close to Lowry being a rim pressure.

Barnes is being asked to carry the team because we lack other options. And like Siakam, that isn't his fault.

You missed the entire point on Lowry. It was to show that guys all develop differently and Barnes still has lots of time to become a better all around player. Oh, and as for FT....Lowry in year 4 was getting to the line less than Barnes.

And again, Barnes contract is based on what he has already accomplished. To think he was just going to sign for 25 million is ludicrous.

[tsherkin]

You missed the entire point on Lowry. It was to show that guys all develop differently and Barnes still has lots of time to become a better all around player. Oh, and as for FT....Lowry in year 4 was getting to the line less than Barnes.

Lowry's route is an interesting one. 10 GP as a rookie, struggled as a sophomore. By his third season, the FT shooting was in good shape, and he continued to crush it at drawing fouls, which has always been a strength of his.

Lowry in year 4 had a .560 FTr, so looking at raw volume isn't a particularly good way to approach it. He was only taking 6.8 FGA/g, so his raw FTA output was necessarily going to be lower than Barnes... but was still only 0.4 fewer FTA/g than Barnes, despite Scottie taking basically 10 more FGA/g. So that was incorrect.

Then by year 5, he was basically the guy we knew, essentially as soon as he was made into a starter. He was missing opportunity more than ability earlier on in his career. It isn't a particularly strong comparison.

[Tripod]

You missed the entire point on Lowry. It was to show that guys all develop differently and Barnes still has lots of time to become a better all around player. Oh, and as for FT....Lowry in year 4 was getting to the line less than Barnes.

Lowry's route is an interesting one. 10 GP as a rookie, struggled as a sophomore. By his third season, the FT shooting was in good shape, and he continued to crush it at drawing fouls, which has always been a strength of his.

Lowry in year 4 had a .560 FTr, so looking at raw volume isn't a particularly good way to approach it. He was only taking 6.8 FGA/g, so his raw FTA output was necessarily going to be lower than Barnes... but was still only 0.4 fewer FTA/g than Barnes, despite Scottie taking basically 10 more FGA/g. So that was incorrect.

Then by year 5, he was basically the guy we knew, essentially as soon as he was made into a starter. He was missing opportunity more than ability earlier on in his career. It isn't a particularly strong comparison.

But again, the main point is that guys can improve over time. And early Raps Lowry was not like prime Lowry.

I only used Lowry as an example of a 3rd scoring option who was their teams 2nd best overall player. No comparison will ever be exact.

In the end, we ALL want that true #1 scoring option who create gravity as that will open things for everyone else. No one on the team is "that guy". Hopefully this draft changes that.

[tsherkin]

But again, the main point is that guys can improve over time. And early Raps Lowry was not like prime Lowry.

Sure he was. What changed was his shooting volume. All the other pieces were all already well-entrenched in his game: draw rate, FT shooting, 3pt shooting, hustle. Again, that was more an issue of recognition and opportunity than of development. Sure, he had his peak years under us, but the actual components of his game were all there. So as far as development, it's a very different discussion than what we're having with Barnes, who is still searching for the tools to be a competent volume scorer on a nightly basis.

In the end, we ALL want that true #1 scoring option who create gravity as that will open things for everyone else. No one on the team is "that guy". Hopefully this draft changes that.

I wouldn't hold my breath.

We've been in the league for 30 years and haven't done it yet. The closest we've come has been with Vince (who touched that level for 2 years and then never reached it again), McGrady (whom we lost before he turned the corner, and was too injured to maintain it for long) and Bosh (who wasn't at the necessary level). Looking at what's there right now doesn't instill a great sense of hope in me on that front. Other contributions, sure, but even if we get Flagg, I dunno, man.

[AbC?]

3rd best scorer, 2nd best player on a contender is the new cope with Barnes. He’s not good enough to become that guy.

[tsherkin]

3rd best scorer, 2nd best player on a contender is the new cope with Barnes. He’s not good enough to become that guy.

Is that a cope?

That's still a very good player.

[HumbleRen]

3rd best scorer, 2nd best player on a contender is the new cope with Barnes. He’s not good enough to become that guy.

We’re seeing the physical limitations with guys like him and J Dub.

[TorontoBarneys]

I wonder if his extension contract might eventually look like an overpay lol.

Yikes.

[PushDaRock]

3rd best scorer, 2nd best player on a contender is the new cope with Barnes. He’s not good enough to become that guy.

We’re seeing the physical limitations with guys like him and J Dub.

Too early to write off J Dub and his track record (61 TS% in first 2 seasons) suggests he will bounce back from an efficiency stand point.

J Dub is also a much better defender at this point.

[HumbleRen]

3rd best scorer, 2nd best player on a contender is the new cope with Barnes. He’s not good enough to become that guy.

We’re seeing the physical limitations with guys like him and J Dub.

Too early to write off J Dub and his track record (61 TS% in first 2 seasons) suggests he will bounce back from an efficiency stand point.

J Dub is also a much better defender at this point.

He’s an efficient player, I don’t think this current J Dub is who he is but he can’t be the volume scorer OKC wants him to be. He’s not a fluid enough athlete.

His ideal role on a contender is probably 20/5/5 guy with elite 2 wing play. I think Chet will emerge as that 2nd best scorer/player on the team if he stays healthy.

[tsherkin]

Too early to write off J Dub and his track record (61 TS% in first 2 seasons) suggests he will bounce back from an efficiency stand point.

J Dub is also a much better defender at this point.

"Much better" is hyperbole.

His efficiency in his first two seasons was at lower volume and a higher proportion of his shots in the RA, but you're right: his short game has been struggling a bit this season, so it's likely that he'll normalize at least a little. Probably not all the way to 60%, but maybe to league average or a shade above. We'll have to see; his 3pt shot has been up and down over his first couple seasons as well, so where he lands with that will make a reasonable difference, too.