Okie Dokie Josh Okogie

[KembaWalker]

So is it just a coincidence that the two objectively best guys for the GM and coaching job happened to be Schnalls old Hawks buddies or maybe our interview process wasn’t so objective and unBobcat-like…

[JDR720]

I don't think it's a coincidence we hired mostly former Hawk people.

But as of now, we're in pick collecting mode. Anybody can trade players for picks. It's what you do with those assets that matter. Be it drafting players or trading them for established ones.

So far, Peterson has been... meh. This Richards trade isn't anything to be mad about. I mean, half the board thinks he sucks. So getting a couple 2nds is about what we expected to get. This does leave us wide open for another Mark injury to screw us. So we need a follow up move.

The draft on the other hand... well I don't want to rehash the stuff from the Saluan thread. But lets just say we have 3 good picks (maybe 4) in this draft. And we need to hit on those picks. To both provide depth behind our injury prone stars, and replace the other not so good bench players we have.

[Walt Cronkite]

You never answered my questions so I guess it bears re-wording

How is it that other teams can make noticeable improvement with regime change but Charlotte can't? What did Detroit do from last year to this to see such improvement? Did they give up their "lOnG tErM vIsIoN" or did they finally bring in some competent folks?

Do you disagree that it's possible to have a "long term vision" while ALSO attempting to put a short term quality product on the floor?

How is it that the team has gotten worse since last year despite having the main 4 guys around for the majority of the season (thus far)?

How long do we have to wait before I'm allowed to say they suck at their jobs? 2 years? 3 years? 5? Maybe next year?

Whomever it was that said Stockholm Syndrome has taken over the fanbase is 100% correct. So many folks tired of complaining about two decades of abject failure that they'd rather just create fake sunshine to bathe in.

I don't follow the Pistons, so I can't tell you what they did that made them improve, but I would be open to someone educating me and I'm willing to dive into their past couple of seasons myself to try and make sense of it.

I do have some ideas about the rest. I think Charlotte has made noticeable improvement with this regime change. From the 22-23 team, three players remain. That team had 12 wins (12-34) on January 18th. The prize for that season was Brandon Miller. The 23-24 team shares 10 players with the current one, three of them acquired during this season when this ownership group was at the head. On January 19th, that team won their 9th game (9-30).

Last night was Charles Lee's 10th win. The team has 28 losses. It is literally untrue that they have gotten worse since last year from a w-l perspective. Further, I would argue that Lee hasn't had access to the main guys for the majority of the season, as the Ball-Miller-Miles-Williams lineup is only his 4th most played foursome. Also, I can't help but be optimistic that having Grant Williams available for more than 16 games wouldn't have turned the tide in a few of those losses, 7 of them came down to 4 or fewer points and I don't think it's unreasonable to think Grant could've impacted the outcome some. Injuries happen, it's part of it.

I don't disagree that it is possible to have a "long term vision" while also attempting to put a short term quality product on the floor. I think the product is on the level of the Borrego years from an entertainment perspective at least, which I think was the last time the team sparks fuzzy memories and before that it's Kemba/Al in 2015-16. Maybe you could define what a "short term quality product" would look like to you so I can better understand or respond, sorry.

How long do you have to wait to say they suck at their jobs?
I have nothing to argue against you saying they all suck at their jobs now. What do you think is a reasonable time period to evaluate that? At this point in his rookie HC year, Spolestra had 22 wins, but Popovich had only 10 at the same point, but that is meaningless, right? Peterson sucks, but only within the past week has he been able to have some players available to trade/trade for and he's been in charge for zero trade deadlines. It's probably pretty early to evaluate?

In regard to Stockholm Syndrome, I do have a counter theory. I think some in the fanbase obsess over the Hornets because they are miserable and that has given them a self-fulfilled reality. Suffering for the Hornets is a badge of honor. They have unrealistically optimistic views of what the team should be ("I see 10 winnable games" is an opinion in the first 10 games prediction thread), so when the team fails their unrealistic expectations, they can feel bad and blame the Hornets, when they feel bad because they feel bad. I've kept it to my self pretty much because I don't know what the **** I'm really talking about, it's just a thought I had and not something I think is worth discussing, and it's also kind of mean and dismissive of an opinion that we don't know much about at this point.

I've been asking in the GT's lately if we are going to be happy or sad if we win, because I genuinely want to know. I think it would address some of the wild complaints. If we want to win this game and we win, cool, enjoy it, don't immediately nitpick the result as imperfect, the team is imperfect. If we want to lose, recognize we want to lose and be okay that we lose, don't bitch that we could've won but didn't.

IDK man, look forward to reading your thoughts. I'm confused by how the divide is so large.

[SWedd523]

You never answered my questions so I guess it bears re-wording

How is it that other teams can make noticeable improvement with regime change but Charlotte can't? What did Detroit do from last year to this to see such improvement? Did they give up their "lOnG tErM vIsIoN" or did they finally bring in some competent folks?

Do you disagree that it's possible to have a "long term vision" while ALSO attempting to put a short term quality product on the floor?

How is it that the team has gotten worse since last year despite having the main 4 guys around for the majority of the season (thus far)?

How long do we have to wait before I'm allowed to say they suck at their jobs? 2 years? 3 years? 5? Maybe next year?

Whomever it was that said Stockholm Syndrome has taken over the fanbase is 100% correct. So many folks tired of complaining about two decades of abject failure that they'd rather just create fake sunshine to bathe in.

I don't follow the Pistons, so I can't tell you what they did that made them improve, but I would be open to someone educating me and I'm willing to dive into their past couple of seasons myself to try and make sense of it.

I do have some ideas about the rest. I think Charlotte has made noticeable improvement with this regime change. From the 22-23 team, three players remain. That team had 12 wins (12-34) on January 18th. The prize for that season was Brandon Miller. The 23-24 team shares 10 players with the current one, three of them acquired during this season when this ownership group was at the head. On January 19th, that team won their 9th game (9-30).

Last night was Charles Lee's 10th win. The team has 28 losses. It is literally untrue that they have gotten worse since last year from a w-l perspective. Further, I would argue that Lee hasn't had access to the main guys for the majority of the season, as the Ball-Miller-Miles-Williams lineup is only his 4th most played foursome. Also, I can't help but be optimistic that having Grant Williams available for more than 16 games wouldn't have turned the tide in a few of those losses, 7 of them came down to 4 or fewer points and I don't think it's unreasonable to think Grant could've impacted the outcome some. Injuries happen, it's part of it.

I don't disagree that it is possible to have a "long term vision" while also attempting to put a short term quality product on the floor. I think the product is on the level of the Borrego years from an entertainment perspective at least, which I think was the last time the team sparks fuzzy memories and before that it's Kemba/Al in 2015-16. Maybe you could define what a "short term quality product" would look like to you so I can better understand or respond, sorry.

How long do you have to wait to say they suck at their jobs?
I have nothing to argue against you saying they all suck at their jobs now. What do you think is a reasonable time period to evaluate that? At this point in his rookie HC year, Spolestra had 22 wins, but Popovich had only 10 at the same point, but that is meaningless, right? Peterson sucks, but only within the past week has he been able to have some players available to trade/trade for and he's been in charge for zero trade deadlines. It's probably pretty early to evaluate?

In regard to Stockholm Syndrome, I do have a counter theory. I think some in the fanbase obsess over the Hornets because they are miserable and that has given them a self-fulfilled reality. Suffering for the Hornets is a badge of honor. They have unrealistically optimistic views of what the team should be ("I see 10 winnable games" is an opinion in the first 10 games prediction thread), so when the team fails their unrealistic expectations, they can feel bad and blame the Hornets, when they feel bad because they feel bad. I've kept it to my self pretty much because I don't know what the **** I'm really talking about, it's just a thought I had and not something I think is worth discussing, and it's also kind of mean and dismissive of an opinion that we don't know much about at this point.

I've been asking in the GT's lately if we are going to be happy or sad if we win, because I genuinely want to know. I think it would address some of the wild complaints. If we want to win this game and we win, cool, enjoy it, don't immediately nitpick the result as imperfect, the team is imperfect. If we want to lose, recognize we want to lose and be okay that we lose, don't bitch that we could've won but didn't.

IDK man, look forward to reading your thoughts. I'm confused by how the divide is so large.

I made that post last night when the team had a .243 win percentage (9-28 record), with Melo/Miller/Miles playing about 70% of the available games and Mark just under half.

As compared to the year prior .256 (21-61), with Melo/Mark playing about 25% and Miller and Miles playing about 88%.

I don't think it requires much mental gymnastics to say the team is significantly underperforming relative to last year. Melo and Mark available for more games (thus far), Miller a rookie last year, Miles first time back after a lengthy suspension, etc. and their win % is teetering around identical.

I also don't think you can say "Grant would've added some wins" while at the same time saying "injuries happen". It's one or the other. Every team has injuries. If the team dismantles because a career 7/3 guy with an 11.7 PER isn't playing then we have much bigger issues to consider.

But I dunno, I'm prepared for a rebuttal I guess.

-----

What I would consider as a short-term quality product is something other than a team tied for the second worst record in the entire league despite having three all star adjacent level guys. I know it's the **** Hornets so expectations should be low, but I don't understand how Detroit is 11 wins ahead, Chicago is 8 wins ahead, Brooklyn is 4 wins ahead, etc.

-----

I think you may be right in that there's a probably a subset of the fanbase that seemingly enjoys trashing the team regardless of the situation.

there's also a subset of the fanbase who seemingly see nothing but sunshine and daisies.

the two biggest ones I've noticed are in two camps:

1. fed up and do not GAF anymore because supporting a **** team isn't worth it (most obvious every home game when there are more opposing fans than home fans in attendance)

2. apathetic and numb to the **** team and are around simply because they have Charlotte/Carolina ties and follow them because they're the hometown team

Both of those are dangerous populations for an ownership group and the two that a new management should be aggressively trying to reach and bring back into the fold.

-----

At the end of the day I will revert to my previous points. Teams that have shown the ability to put a quality product on the floor earn the right to push a "patient, long term approach" on their fanbase. They've earned the good faith.

Charlotte has been probably the worst franchise in the entire league since they came back in 04 and have earned no right whatsoever to ask for good faith regardless of which guy is signing checks. I am not going to play that game and I honestly don't really care if other folks don't have the ability or energy to call a spade a spade.

[Walt Cronkite]

I made that post last night when the team had a .243 win percentage (9-28 record), with Melo/Miller/Miles playing about 70% of the available games and Mark just under half.

As compared to the year prior .256 (21-61), with Melo/Mark playing about 25% and Miller and Miles playing about 88%.

I don't think it requires much mental gymnastics to say the team is significantly underperforming relative to last year. Melo and Mark available for more games (thus far), Miller a rookie last year, Miles first time back after a lengthy suspension, etc. and their win % is teetering around identical.

I also don't think you can say "Grant would've added some wins" while at the same time saying "injuries happen". It's one or the other. Every team has injuries. If the team dismantles because a career 7/3 guy with an 11.7 PER isn't playing then we have much bigger issues to consider.

After your post was made the team had a .263 win percentage, with Melo/Miller/Miles playing about 70% of about 1/2 a season (which might end up being the season total) and Mark playing in 16 games, 6 of which included all of Melo/Miller/Miles (1 of which was early in his return so only 17 mp).

So an improved win % against the year prior's .256 (21-61), where Melo/Mark played about 25% and Miller and Miles playing about 88%.

I don't know about mental gymnastics. If LaMelo, Miller and Miles are healthy for most of the rest of the year, how many more wins above 21 do they need to have to not have "significantly underperformed"? If we want to evaluate, we have to have a defined goal, right? Going 22-22 the rest of the way is unimaginable, but would you even consider 32 wins a success? 33? I didn't have a number of wins I expected of these guys, I thought they would lose plenty, so I don't have that same standard definition, I just want to understand your bar better.

I wrote that injuries happen/grant portion very poorly, sorry about that. In other words, I was acknowledging that injuries are part of the game and that sucks and it sucks that Grant got hurt and it's a weak argument but com'on, he would've altered a few close wins so that's bad luck that sucks. It wasn't my best.

Your point about having bigger issues to consider if missing a guy like Grant dismantles your team is a good one and I think one where we agree for the most part. From my perspective, if your team has to have a healthy Grant Williams to steal a couple of games for you. Right? I see the most realistic improvement through the draft and you see it existing elsewhere, correct?

But I dunno, I'm prepared for a rebuttal I guess.

Kinda weird.

I guess I'll try to be concise.

SWedd's short-term quality product acceptability= 3rd worst record in the league despite having 3(?) all-star adjacent level guys.

I don't see a lot of sunshine and daisy posters on the board. Am I the sunshine and daisy poster on the board?

I see your point that they haven't earned the right to a "patient, long term approach". I agree that it hasn't been earned. Charlotte has definitely been the worst franchise in the entire league. SWedd is not playing that game and doesn't care if others don't have the ability or energy to call a spade a spade. Is it profound that the Hornets have been bad and haven't earned fandom? I think the interesting thing is why people seem to find them disgusting but can't stop following every development. Read a book, watch a cartoon, something you enjoy instead? Why invest lifeforce into something that can only be defined negatively? I legitimately don't understand but would like to.

[KembaWalker]

Are we really stooping to the “you must be a miserable person if you are critical of your basketball team, just do something else if it makes you so unhappy. Get a new hobby” stuff here of all places?

If you like the team, the owners, the trajectory we’ve been on and remain on then that’s fine, I’m fine to discuss the tangible stuff they’ve done, the hires, the transactions, their backgrounds. Absolutely zero interest in your psychoanalysis or judgement of my or anyone else’s free time.

But since you mentioned books, there’s plenty of entertainment and joy found in following the narratives of an absolute dumpsterfire of misery, disappointment and failure with no good ending in sight. Try Salems Lot

[Bassman]

Let me speak for myself here. I am not a miserable person, and therefore gripe about what the Hornets do, or their situation, because I’m some grumpy old bast*#d. My days of putting part of my life’s vested interest in any sports team ended decades ago. As a young kid, then young man, it was fun, exciting, intense, you name it. Poured heart and soul into the Redskins, Broncos, Hornets, Panthers, Rams, Chiefs. Equally into college basketball with NC State, Duke and Carolina. Braves and Cardinals. Felt the thrill of “winning” Super Bowls, World Series, National Championships. Even the Blues finally won the Stanley Cup! Attended parades to celebrate. Also endured the agony of losing some big games. Did my life change due to any of this? Nope. But I did enjoy them!

Hornets were not my first pro team love, but they were my FIRST hometown pro team. So despite the earlier years of good time, and the MANY horrible seasons, I feel a unique connection to this team different from any of the others. Haven’t lived in the state since 1999, could have easily ditched them for teams closer to my homes in Missouri, then Florida, now back to Missouri. But I stayed loyal, and will remain loyal regardless.

I’ve earned the right to my opinions, as have all of you on this thread. Hell, you wouldn’t be around any number of years if you didn’t care. FWIW, I am hopeful for the new ownership/management/coaching staff. But I will critique as I am able, because it will take a HUGE EFFORT, nearly PERFECT EXECUTION and EXCELLENT DRAFT CHOICES to get this team contending for playoffs and championships. Player development…yep need that. But each move, each trade or signing, is important. Would the Hornets winning some series, or especially a world title, change my life? Nope…but it is likely the last sports accomplishment that would make my sports world complete.

[Walt Cronkite]

Are we really stooping to the “you must be a miserable person if you are critical of your basketball team, just do something else if it makes you so unhappy. Get a new hobby” stuff here of all places?

It is as valid as Stockholm Syndrome accusations and it doesn't have to be a new hobby, just take a break from this one if it is so disappointing and negative. Why is that stooping?

[Walt Cronkite]

Let me speak for myself here. I am not a miserable person, and therefore gripe about what the Hornets do, or their situation, because I’m some grumpy old bast*#d.

Is grumpy old bastard a genre you expect your peers to be excited to read?

Look, seems like calling out the miserable negativity you all have "earned" to express has touched a nerve. Be negative, it's the overwhelming sentiment of the board, so it isn't the hot take all of you think it is and it isn't punishing the organization, it's punishing us, your peers, fellow readers and writers.

The point of tangibly was brought up. It's exactly where my frustrations lie. I've repeatedly asked for vague terms thrown around in the never ending negative rants to be defined and if anyone even bothers it's with an explanation of what it isn't, not actually defining what could be marked as an accomplishment. We suck, what is the next milestone of progress? What is encouraging, what should we be looking for in games? But no, we have sucked for decades, the coach sucks, the gm sucks, the players suck...got it.

[SWedd523]

If you don't want to read the negativity then there are a multitude of options available

Ignore it, don't read it, skip past it, block it, hell you can even report it.

Many folks have given up and taken a break. This place used to have a pretty robust membership, now we're down to maybe 10 or so regular posters. Get rid of the rest of the negative folks and there's just going to be a love dome echo chamber of Ben and I guess yourself Walt. You sure that's your preference?

You could just as say the other side of the coin would be if you're tired of reading the negativity, maybe you should take a break? (for the record, that's not what I want. I enjoy your posting)

Or maybe a third option is instead of trying to tell me why I shouldn't say bad things about dear leaders, you could understand that the reasoning for it all goes back to the same root cause. A **** organization. Take your consternation out on them, not the negative bunch.

[KembaWalker]

The main reason the overly positive sentiments fail to me is that they don’t ever even address my issues

My issues with this ownership group

1. They are undercapitalized. I don’t believe there is any evidence they have the money to really compete other than scrounging up enough to take MJs controlling share. They aren’t wealthy like that. It’s an inconvenient truth that isn’t going away

2. The GM and coach hires are just old friends from the owner in Atlanta - I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that our GM and coach worked for Schnall in Atlanta all at the same time and that’s why they are in these jobs now. I believe this is more likely than them objectively being the best guys for the job. To me, this isn’t majorly different than MJ hiring Buzz Peterson or Mitch Kupchak, his UNC buddies. It’s the same thing, and it’s a bad look

3. Lees coaching has sucked so far. I don’t think this is controversial so I’m not going to expound on it a ton. Everyone knows we are playing brain dead basketball this season

4. Peterson has done nothing to impress me so far. Salaun sucks as an 6th pick and will suck for a long time. I don’t care about hoarding second round picks. Until he does something good, I’m not gonna give him some kind of credit.

5. The medical staff still sucks. This should be obvious again. No it’s not normal to have a guy finish a game and find out afterward that he’s got a season ending injury out of nowhere. These guys are still trash


And so the counter I get here every day is some form of

“We haven’t been in a spot this good in a decade, you just need to give it time” blah blah

I don’t even disagree with this, we are in a good spot for us but that is in no way shape or form a defense any one of my critiques so why would I be swayed by this? I believe we’re in this “good spot” (relative to us) because LaMelo, Mark, and Brandon are good, and the fact that the lottery system exists and might help us in a few months. None of that is attributable to JP, definitely not to Lee, definitely not to Schnotkin. Saying things are “different now” when the only good things this team has going for it are the things we’ve had for years now and the inevitable existence of the draft makes zero logical sense to me.

JP drafted a total scrub at 6, Lee runs the worst offense I’ve seen in my life, the owners are running a poverty staff of old Atlanta buddies and scrubs. This is what I’m judging them on, while their defenders assign them credit for LaMelo, Mark, and Brandon and the NBA lottery system saying the future is bright and act like we’re the illogical ones.

[SWedd523]

I never really rationalized the thought of "the good thing this FO has going" is just that they inherited some good pieces from the previous regime... that we all generally agree was a failure.

[Bassman]

Let me speak for myself here. I am not a miserable person, and therefore gripe about what the Hornets do, or their situation, because I’m some grumpy old bast*#d.

Is grumpy old bastard a genre you expect your peers to be excited to read?

Well Walt, I shared a good bit of my life background trying to help you understand where I’m coming from…and your response is pure you, so there you go.

Take my comments however. I’ve been posting here for a long azz time. Put me on ignore if you wish. My biggest gripes this season have been their pick at 6 and Josh Green’s poor play. This trade just triggered reactions from those of us who keep getting tired of dealing assets for more 2nd round picks. Maybe Okogie surprises us and returns production despite the plan to let him expire, but doubtful.

[JustBuzzin]

Richards 21pts 11reb in his 1st game lol

We sold him short that's the part that hurts. He was a legit asset around the league and we couldn't even get a legit rotation piece in return.

I guess this is payback for us winning the Rozier trade with Miami last season.

[Walt Cronkite]

If you don't want to read the negativity then there are a multitude of options available

Ignore it, don't read it, skip past it, block it, hell you can even report it.

Many folks have given up and taken a break. This place used to have a pretty robust membership, now we're down to maybe 10 or so regular posters. Get rid of the rest of the negative folks and there's just going to be a love dome echo chamber of Ben and I guess yourself Walt. You sure that's your preference?

You could just as say the other side of the coin would be if you're tired of reading the negativity, maybe you should take a break? (for the record, that's not what I want. I enjoy your posting)

Or maybe a third option is instead of trying to tell me why I shouldn't say bad things about dear leaders, you could understand that the reasoning for it all goes back to the same root cause. A **** organization. Take your consternation out on them, not the negative bunch.

This discussion has gone so past Josh Okogie, because of course it has. That's what always happens. Thanks for telling me my options. I'm responding to you because you specifically mentioned I didn't address a part of your message so I wanted to take the time to do that. You followed up with a message that was pretty off-putting ("I dunno, I'm prepared for a rebuttal I guess.") I don't want anyone to quit posting, but I do think some thought could go into "why am I posting this"?/ "who is this for?"/"what am I contributing?" if we want to have a discussion on a message board. I responded to each of your points because I genuinely want to understand a point of view that is different from my own, so it's pretty rude that you skipped over it to respond this way.

The team has won 3 of it's past 4 games, btw everyone and they've been looking better for a wider span than those games. This has been lost in the overwhelming constant negativity, because it doesn't matter, because improvement and success are terms you can move the goal posts on and never actually define, so the team can constantly disappoint.

[JustBuzzin]

Let me speak for myself here. I am not a miserable person, and therefore gripe about what the Hornets do, or their situation, because I’m some grumpy old bast*#d.

Is grumpy old bastard a genre you expect your peers to be excited to read?

Well Walt, I shared a good bit of my life background trying to help you understand where I’m coming from…and your response is pure you, so there you go.

Take my comments however. I’ve been posting here for a long azz time. Put me on ignore if you wish. My biggest gripes this season have been their pick at 6 and Josh Green’s poor play. This trade just triggered reactions from those of us who keep getting tired of dealing assets for more 2nd round picks. Maybe Okogie surprises us and returns production despite the plan to let him expire, but doubtful.

The sad part is Richards was valued around the league. Multiple playoff teams wanted this dude. We couldn't even get a serious rotation player in return. That's what hurts most. A team who was top heavy traded one of their few assets for a player who's no better than Josh Green or Cody Martin. That sucks.

[Walt Cronkite]

The main reason the overly positive sentiments fail to me is that they don’t ever even address my issues

My issues with this ownership group

1. They are undercapitalized. I don’t believe there is any evidence they have the money to really compete other than scrounging up enough to take MJs controlling share. They aren’t wealthy like that. It’s an inconvenient truth that isn’t going away

2. The GM and coach hires are just old friends from the owner in Atlanta - I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that our GM and coach worked for Schnall in Atlanta all at the same time and that’s why they are in these jobs now. I believe this is more likely than them objectively being the best guys for the job. To me, this isn’t majorly different than MJ hiring Buzz Peterson or Mitch Kupchak, his UNC buddies. It’s the same thing, and it’s a bad look

3. Lees coaching has sucked so far. I don’t think this is controversial so I’m not going to expound on it a ton. Everyone knows we are playing brain dead basketball this season

4. Peterson has done nothing to impress me so far. Salaun sucks as an 6th pick and will suck for a long time. I don’t care about hoarding second round picks. Until he does something good, I’m not gonna give him some kind of credit.

5. The medical staff still sucks. This should be obvious again. No it’s not normal to have a guy finish a game and find out afterward that he’s got a season ending injury out of nowhere. These guys are still trash

1. At what point are they properly capitalized. define it. make it tangible.

2. We know that you don't trust the atlanta connection. Time will tell if it is stoogism or not. How long are you willing to give the FO/Coach to show improvement? What is improvement? You don't have to be patient, you don't have to be fair, but how can we have a discussion if there is nothing to discuss because you have decided they are bad, no discussion?

3. I think the team has looked pretty good lately... they just had 73 points at half time in a win on the road at the end of a road trip.

4. We know you are unimpressed by Peterson. Do you think it was reasonable for him to wait until after players signed in the offseason became trade eligible before making a move? What was an acceptable haul for Richardson, the board black sheep? Is it fair to wait until the trade deadline to evaluate his first trade deadline or should we be calling him a failure now because he hasn't made a trade deadline trade yet??

5. I'm not a doctor or a medical staff guy. Not worth arguing about if you think the staff is responsible for Brandon Miller's injury.

A lot of conjecture coming from the guy that claims he wants to talk about tangible things...

[JustBuzzin]

If you don't want to read the negativity then there are a multitude of options available

Ignore it, don't read it, skip past it, block it, hell you can even report it.

Many folks have given up and taken a break. This place used to have a pretty robust membership, now we're down to maybe 10 or so regular posters. Get rid of the rest of the negative folks and there's just going to be a love dome echo chamber of Ben and I guess yourself Walt. You sure that's your preference?

You could just as say the other side of the coin would be if you're tired of reading the negativity, maybe you should take a break? (for the record, that's not what I want. I enjoy your posting)

Or maybe a third option is instead of trying to tell me why I shouldn't say bad things about dear leaders, you could understand that the reasoning for it all goes back to the same root cause. A **** organization. Take your consternation out on them, not the negative bunch.

Am I now part of the old man club?

I feel like I put in the time and earned my stripes. Let me in dammit!

[JustBuzzin]

If you don't want to read the negativity then there are a multitude of options available

Ignore it, don't read it, skip past it, block it, hell you can even report it.

Many folks have given up and taken a break. This place used to have a pretty robust membership, now we're down to maybe 10 or so regular posters. Get rid of the rest of the negative folks and there's just going to be a love dome echo chamber of Ben and I guess yourself Walt. You sure that's your preference?

You could just as say the other side of the coin would be if you're tired of reading the negativity, maybe you should take a break? (for the record, that's not what I want. I enjoy your posting)

Or maybe a third option is instead of trying to tell me why I shouldn't say bad things about dear leaders, you could understand that the reasoning for it all goes back to the same root cause. A **** organization. Take your consternation out on them, not the negative bunch.

This discussion has gone so past Josh Okogie, because of course it has. That's what always happens. Thanks for telling me my options. I'm responding to you because you specifically mentioned I didn't address a part of your message so I wanted to take the time to do that. You followed up with a message that was pretty off-putting ("I dunno, I'm prepared for a rebuttal I guess.") I don't want anyone to quit posting, but I do think some thought could go into "why am I posting this"?/ "who is this for?"/"what am I contributing?" if we want to have a discussion on a message board. I responded to each of your points because I genuinely want to understand a point of view that is different from my own, so it's pretty rude that you skipped over it to respond this way.

The team has won 3 of it's past 4 games, btw everyone and they've been looking better for a wider span than those games. This has been lost in the overwhelming constant negativity, because it doesn't matter, because improvement and success are terms you can move the goal posts on and never actually define, so the team can constantly disappoint.

Let's be honest nobody cares for Josh Ohoagie.

I think people are frustrated we traded a good asset for a player we didn't need. We got someone worst than Green. Of course the topic is going to be about how we loss the trade. Nobody cares about Ohoagie he's not good and has a receding hairline.

[Walt Cronkite]

Let me speak for myself here. I am not a miserable person, and therefore gripe about what the Hornets do, or their situation, because I’m some grumpy old bast*#d.

Is grumpy old bastard a genre you expect your peers to be excited to read?

Well Walt, I shared a good bit of my life background trying to help you understand where I’m coming from…and your response is pure you, so there you go.

Take my comments however. I’ve been posting here for a long azz time. Put me on ignore if you wish. My biggest gripes this season have been their pick at 6 and Josh Green’s poor play. This trade just triggered reactions from those of us who keep getting tired of dealing assets for more 2nd round picks. Maybe Okogie surprises us and returns production despite the plan to let him expire, but doubtful.

Well Bassman, your gimmick the whole time you've posted on the board has been "old guy" and your location has your life story written out each time you post, so pardon me for not addressing each move and fandom you've observed over your life. It looks to me like I've never cared about a sports franchise as much as you have cared about many franchises. I'm glad you've experienced the vicarious joy of their successes.

You've earned the right to your opinions the same as anyone else, they aren't weightier because you are old and have followed more sports teams. The team has a lot of work to do, tell me who they should travel back in time and select in the last few drafts some more.

"Pure you", what a dick.