Why can't Banchero uplift this team like Franz could?

[eyriq]

Suggs being injured is a huge factor. Bigger than some admit.

I don't think he's a big impact player yet, personally.

[T-Cat]

What is the purpose of Anthony Black if Paolo and Franz handle the ball most of the time?

[Skybox]

What is the purpose of Anthony Black if Paolo and Franz handle the ball most of the time?

sic him, eyriq!

[eyriq]

What is the purpose of Anthony Black if Paolo and Franz handle the ball most of the time?

sic him, eyriq!

LOL

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Suggs being injured is a huge factor. Bigger than some admit.

I don't think he's a big impact player yet, personally.

You’re kidding right. You don’t think that our all-defense 2nd team defender has big impact on the game? Especially since we win because of defense?

[MasterGMer]

Let's don't over react here. Paolo just got back and way more players are hurt, which includes Goga, Suggs and Moe, who are three key rotational players for us when healthy.

I really don't want to get into a Paolo and Franz debate. But it seems like this discussion is turning into. They are different types of players. Paolo's strength is scoring and Franz can score plus play make. Boston had debate about Brown and Tatum, and I guess it doesn't matter anymore since they are the defending Champion plus they are the fav to win it again this year.

The issue surrounding this team now and in the future is simple: Just Win, baby!

If this team is like most said that one day we will turn into a Championship contender. Let's just embrace it and wish everybody back healthy before playoffs. Cause that is when things matter the most. Not losing to Milwaukee and Boston back to back in the regular season. Honestly, it won't matter

[eyriq]

Suggs being injured is a huge factor. Bigger than some admit.

I don't think he's a big impact player yet, personally.

You’re kidding right. You don’t think that our all-defense 2nd team defender has big impact on the game? Especially since we win because of defense?

I'm not kidding. I'm on the record that Franz is the defensive anchor, not Suggs. Suggs is a complimentary piece, not a key driver. Not a star.

[eyriq]

Put it this way. When Suggs is on the court our team has a +0.36 net rating, when he's off the court our team has a +4.7 net rating.

The team's net rating is worse by -4.34 points when he's on the court.

Our defensive rating with him on is 107.34, with him off its 108.61. So yes, he impacts the defense by +1.27. But the offense tanks. Is that good enough evidence to call him an impact player? I don't think so.

Take Franz as a counter point. When Franz is on the court our team has a +8.38 net rating, when he's off the court our team has a -3.92 net rating.

The team's net rating is better by +12.3 points when he's on the court.

Our defensive rating with him on is 106.48, with him off its 107.63. That is a defensive impact of +1.15, nearly the same defensive impact as Suggs. That doesn't confirm my statement about Franz being the defensive anchor but it doesn't disprove it either. And either way, Franz's impact is what I'd expect from a "big impact player". Suggs isn't there yet.

[VFX]

Put it this way. When Suggs in on the court our team has a +0.36 net rating, when he's off the court our team has a +4.7 net rating.

The team's net rating is worse by -4.34 points when he's on the court.

Our defensive rating with him on is 107.34, with him off its 108.61. So yes, he impacts the defense by +1.27. But the offense tanks. Is that good enough evidence to call him an impact player? I don't think so.

Take Franz as a counter point. When Franz is on the court our team has a +8.38 net rating, when he's off the court our team has a -3.92 net rating.

The team's net rating is better by +12.3 points when he's on the court.

Our defensive rating with him on is 106.48, with him off its 107.63. That is a defensive impact of +1.15, nearly the same defensive impact as Suggs. That doesn't confirm my statement about Franz being the defensive anchor but it doesn't disprove it either. And either way, Franz's impact is what I'd expect from a "big impact player". Suggs isn't there yet.

I'm not kidding. I'm on the record that Franz is the defensive anchor, not Suggs. Suggs is a complimentary piece, not a key driver. Not a star.

You’ve lost the plot my guy.

Not a single player on this team would say Jalen Suggs off the court is more advantageous. There is also nobody on this team that can replace what he provides in the starting lineup. And if you attempt to convince people that player is Anthony Black I will lose my mind.

He is an impact player on the defensive side of the ball. All he does is makes plays on that side of the court. Every analyst and player knows this and has said this ad nauseam. Second team all defense with players like Caruso, Holiday, White, and McDaniels in his 3rd season.

I know you are watching these games. So I can’t believe truly you have this take. I cannot believe you fell into this bait thread spouting this nonsense. Franz is a very good defensive player and a better playmaker on offense. Completely different players.

[eyriq]

Put it this way. When Suggs in on the court our team has a +0.36 net rating, when he's off the court our team has a +4.7 net rating.

The team's net rating is worse by -4.34 points when he's on the court.

Our defensive rating with him on is 107.34, with him off its 108.61. So yes, he impacts the defense by +1.27. But the offense tanks. Is that good enough evidence to call him an impact player? I don't think so.

Take Franz as a counter point. When Franz is on the court our team has a +8.38 net rating, when he's off the court our team has a -3.92 net rating.

The team's net rating is better by +12.3 points when he's on the court.

Our defensive rating with him on is 106.48, with him off its 107.63. That is a defensive impact of +1.15, nearly the same defensive impact as Suggs. That doesn't confirm my statement about Franz being the defensive anchor but it doesn't disprove it either. And either way, Franz's impact is what I'd expect from a "big impact player". Suggs isn't there yet.

I'm not kidding. I'm on the record that Franz is the defensive anchor, not Suggs. Suggs is a complimentary piece, not a key driver. Not a star.

You’ve lost the plot my guy.

Not a single player on this team would say Jalen Suggs off the court is more advantageous. There is also nobody on this team that can replace what he provides in the starting lineup. And if you attempt to convince people that player is Anthony Black I will lose my mind.

He is an impact player on the defensive side of the ball. All he does is makes plays on that side of the court. Every analyst and player knows this and has said this ad nauseam. Second team all defense with players like Caruso, Holiday, White, and McDaniels in his 3rd season.

I know you are watching these games. So I can’t believe truly you have this take. I cannot believe you fell into this bait thread spouting this nonsense. Franz is a very good defensive player and a better playmaker on offense. Completely different players.

I don't think he's a big impact player and I stated why. I think his defensive impact is overstated and Franz deserves more recognition there. He still needs to learn to play under control. He overly relies on energy. He's really good and will probably be a decent third option.

[eyriq]

I agree this is a bait thread. The title itself begs the question instead of being openly curious and inviting conversation. I just wanted to discuss how important a factor Suggs absence was in affecting the recent struggles because it was brought up and it's something I've pondered before. I'm personally not convinced that Suggs has the kind of effect that would explain most of the recent struggles during Paolo's return. I think other factors are better at explaining it. Franz's absence, Paolo ramping up, and SOS would imo explain most of the issue. Missing Suggs and Goga obviously doesn't help either, nor does the illness passing through the team.

It doesn't mean I don't value Suggs. I think he's critical to this build and 100% a core piece. It's just that impact stats don't really provide evidence that he's a big impact player, neither on-off or sweater vest points. Why is that? Cole has more sweater vest points, Goga is tied. Suggs has one vest while a freaking rookie (TDS) has two.

[GelbeWand09]

Like I wrote a few times already. Franz is the better floor raiser because he is a elite 2 way player. It's not a coincidence that Franz got much better advanced stats every season. Despite the big advantage of a tiny 5 game samplesize were Paolo had a 50 point game his impact stats were still much worse than Franz despite the flu week. It's quite logical. Franz is the much better defender and same level passer without as much turnovers as Paolo. Paolo has to score on much better efficiency and higher volume to Franz to even have a chance to balancing the defense gap, which isn't the case.
Paolo is better getting shots up against good defences because of his physical playsstyle and more willingness to take midrange shots. We need him to get us over the hump but Franz is the guy in combination with our defense that gives us a high floor despite our offense/shooting.

[zaymon]

We need both Paolo and Franz to contend. I like some of the other players on the team but in the grand scheme of things we can change them all including Suggs, but we are far away from that and maybe we start to win in the playoffs before we need to trade him.

[pepe1991]

Franz is Magic best player. Was two years ago. Wast last year. Is this year still.

For start Franz is Magic most important defender. Not best individual defender, but most important one. Isaac this year is nowhere near as good, also teams "solved" Isaac problem by pushing him on perimeter and planting missmatch below rim. That's how Celtics took him out in few seconds. Several times he was chasing Tatum while Porzingis just moved down with Cole on him, ball swing - layups for days.
Isaac also hardly plays enough min to be impactful for defense.

Suggs is great defender but not one that will switch on SFs, PFs, Cs because his size limitations, also he is wild and can be out of control.

Franz on other hand plays min with both bench and starters, isn't wild, is well composed and is great help defender and point of attack defender.


On offense you can plant him on any team and he will make that team better because he can play on ball, create, pass, rebound, run transition. He is hybrid, kind a like young Leonard or prime Kevin McHale. You didn't need to give him 30% usage for him to work.
He was best player on World Cup winner playing as defacto 3rd offensive option.




Banchero is pretty much opposite. Not very good defender. Needs whole offense to be made for him, off ball does next to nothing. His whole game is focused on hitting mid range shots and drawing fouls. It would be great if he can actually be 37% three point shooter on high volume, but i would not bet on that on some 60-70 games sample.

That's why advanced stats always like Franz better. Does more with less.

[Bensational]

Are people forgetting the much easier run of teams Franz faced? He got to beat up on a lot of broken and depleted teams like Pelicans 3rd string, Philly 3 times, Washington, Charlotte twice, Brooklyn twice, Detroit, Chicago - and this was when most of them had sub .500 records.

Paolo has faced Milwaukee twice and Boston, with a much more depleted team than Franz had, which is akin to Franz’s first 4 games against CLE, OKC, DAL and IND. Wanna know Franz’s netrtg over those games? -8.3 Paolo over the last 4 games is -9.3. Both bad results for both from playing against elite teams with injury depleted teams.

Like then, we just need to give it time.

[msmoore66]

So what you are saying is..... Paolo needs to be traded for a poo poo platter?

[basketballRob]

Put it this way. When Suggs in on the court our team has a +0.36 net rating, when he's off the court our team has a +4.7 net rating.

The team's net rating is worse by -4.34 points when he's on the court.

Our defensive rating with him on is 107.34, with him off its 108.61. So yes, he impacts the defense by +1.27. But the offense tanks. Is that good enough evidence to call him an impact player? I don't think so.

Take Franz as a counter point. When Franz is on the court our team has a +8.38 net rating, when he's off the court our team has a -3.92 net rating.

The team's net rating is better by +12.3 points when he's on the court.

Our defensive rating with him on is 106.48, with him off its 107.63. That is a defensive impact of +1.15, nearly the same defensive impact as Suggs. That doesn't confirm my statement about Franz being the defensive anchor but it doesn't disprove it either. And either way, Franz's impact is what I'd expect from a "big impact player". Suggs isn't there yet.

I think the rotating lineup has hurt Suggs this season on offense and defense. The last 2 seasons, Suggs was better defensively.

I'm looking forward to Suggs playing with Paolo because it was clear he wasn't getting the open shots he was after Paolo went out.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[drsd]

Let's don't over react here. Paolo just got back and way more players are hurt, which includes Goga, Suggs and Moe, who are three key rotational players for us when healthy.

To add: even healthy, Orlando is "supposed" to lose to the Bucks and the Celts.

Orlando's schedule will soon be baby's bottom soft. A lot of wins are coming.

[The-Stallion70]

It’s kinda funny you are blaming the board when your narrative might be the problem, lol.

You have once again added nothing of substance. Shocker. Not convinced that you know anything about the game and if you do, which I doubt, it appears you prefer to just comment about other posters rather than discuss the game .

I think what people are trying to impart upon you is that Franz may very well be "better" than Paolo this year, considering we know how good Franz is on both sides (when his three is hitting), but it has nothing to do with this particular hand-picked stretch of games, where if you're actually trying to compare it to a 1:1 scenario, you would take the stretch of games post-Paolo injury where we went 0-5 (on the road with tough opponents) and people were panicking, so we should probably be patient with any overreactions.

My stated contention is that I don't believe this team should lose by 30 two games in a row if we have Paolo healthy. Many posters are taking impressions formed from the title and running with it.

So when Paolo was averaging 30 5 and 6 at the beginning of the year after a 5 month layoff that was legit then but now after a 3 month layoff I'm not sure i 100% believe he's not 100% he had 34 his first game back.

[AdamTheGreek]

This thread should not exist.