Image ImageImage Image

Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft

Moderators: HomoSapien, Ice Man, Michael Jackson, dougthonus, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10

fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 70,211
And1: 37,450
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#781 » by fleet » Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:19 pm

Betta Bulleavit wrote:
fleet wrote:
Betta Bulleavit wrote:I completely understand everything they you’re saying and I don’t necessarily disagree. The fact of the matter is that consistent poor decisions have been a staple of this organization for many years now. And it’s created a stigma that isn’t going won’t be easily shaken until we show notable improvements in the W/L column.

My thing is, I don’t believe that we’re as far off as our record indicates. Sure, I know many people would beg to differ and that’s fine. But the most critical of errors that this organization made was miscalculating the negative impact of retaining Eberflus last season. It wasn’t not talking to Daniels. They weren’t drafting him at 1 nor was any other team. In fact, if the Commanders had the number one pick, even they would have drafted Caleb. So I’m not worried about who we drafted, especially once you consider that Caleb (individually) did not have a “bad” season.

The bottom line is (and I risk sounding like a broken record here) is that Poles just needs to worry about making the decisions that he believes in and not worry about what the fans or the media thinks he should be doing. I believe that getting this coaching hire right is the one step that will for the longest way towards changing the general narrative of this team.

I don’t believe there was total consensus on Caleb by the time of the draft. Daniels had a ton of momentum, and quite a number of NFL people in media were calling for Daniels over Caleb. Knowing Poles, he just locked onto Caleb and dismissed any doubt. He didn’t even open his mind to it, never brought Daniels into the building. Other GMs in his position may have done things differently.

No, there was most certainly a consensus. The only person that had Daniels over Williams was Dan Olorvsky (sp). Beyond that, everyone else had Williams over Daniels, which was why it was a foregone conclusion come draft night. There was no question about who the top pick was going to be or who the perceived top prospect was.

Certainly there was no doubt about what the Bears were doing. Daniels never got a team visit. And Orlovsky wasn’t the only one.
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 70,211
And1: 37,450
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#782 » by fleet » Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:23 pm

biggestbullsfan wrote:
Read on Twitter


So McCarthy or Monken? Who yall thinking :lol:

Does Kliff move up the rankings too?lol

Another thing. Strong if the Raiders would hire Newmark even before they offered the job to Ben Johnson. That would be a pretty amazing full court press by the Raiders on BJ. Not that they have to if BJ and Newmark are a unit already.
panthermark
RealGM
Posts: 21,712
And1: 4,009
Joined: Mar 15, 2010
Location: Undisclosed: MJ's shadow could be lurking....
         

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#783 » by panthermark » Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:24 pm

I remember posting an article from a former NFL scout that despised CW, and said he should have a 4th round grade (or something like that).
I'm going to see if I can find that article and see if what he saw matches up with the season.

Edit - Found it.
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/04/former-nfl-scout-100-chance-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/former-nfl-scout-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/02/former-nfl-scout-removes-caleb-williams-from-draft-board-due-to-latest-decision/

Damn! He kinda nailed it.
I don't think CW will be a bust, but my concern was always...was he the next Mahomes or the next Trevor Lawrence?
Jealousy is a sickness.......get well soon....
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 70,211
And1: 37,450
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#784 » by fleet » Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:37 pm

Read on Twitter
SirKaiser
Sophomore
Posts: 212
And1: 102
Joined: Jan 05, 2022

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#785 » by SirKaiser » Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:39 pm

panthermark wrote:I remember posting an article from a former NFL scout that despised CW, and said he should have a 4th round grade (or something like that).
I'm going to see if I can find that article and see if what he saw matches up with the season.

Edit - Found it.
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/04/former-nfl-scout-100-chance-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/former-nfl-scout-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/02/former-nfl-scout-removes-caleb-williams-from-draft-board-due-to-latest-decision/

Damn! He kinda nailed it.
I don't think CW will be a bust, but my concern was always...was he the next Mahomes or the next Trevor Lawrence?

This is absurd. Does anyone seriously think that if the Bears took Daniels, and Washington took CW, that the positions would be reversed, or even that much different? The Bears would have still been terrible and people would be questioning whether Daniels is Fields 2.0
Betta Bulleavit
General Manager
Posts: 7,789
And1: 2,895
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
       

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#786 » by Betta Bulleavit » Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:40 pm

panthermark wrote:I remember posting an article from a former NFL scout that despised CW, and said he should have a 4th round grade (or something like that).
I'm going to see if I can find that article and see if what he saw matches up with the season.

Edit - Found it.
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/04/former-nfl-scout-100-chance-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/former-nfl-scout-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/02/former-nfl-scout-removes-caleb-williams-from-draft-board-due-to-latest-decision/

Damn! He kinda nailed it.
I don't think CW will be a bust, but my concern was always...was he the next Mahomes or the next Trevor Lawrence?

He made a lot of valid observations. But those observations are also mixed in with a ton of biased conjecture and an eagerness to simply be right. The general rule of them is that a former scout will always show you why they’re a “former” scout.

At any rate, you may recall that there weee a few posters last off season that weren’t salivating over CW. I was one of them. I was perfectly aware of what his deficiencies were and even though I felt like he would become a great NFL QB, it wasn’t going to happen overnight. He wasn’t going to see the meteoric rise to the top that I think a lot of folks were buying into. This guy needs to bake. And that bake time could easily take 2-3 seasons.
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 70,211
And1: 37,450
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#787 » by fleet » Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:49 pm

That’s the engagement farmer that had Spencer Rattler as the best quarterback in the class. Pay no attention.
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 70,211
And1: 37,450
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#788 » by fleet » Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:51 pm

The Williams family is not going to sit still for any more failures.

Read on Twitter
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 58,998
And1: 19,082
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:
 

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#789 » by dougthonus » Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:51 pm

panthermark wrote:I remember posting an article from a former NFL scout that despised CW, and said he should have a 4th round grade (or something like that).
I'm going to see if I can find that article and see if what he saw matches up with the season.

Edit - Found it.
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/04/former-nfl-scout-100-chance-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/former-nfl-scout-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/02/former-nfl-scout-removes-caleb-williams-from-draft-board-due-to-latest-decision/

Damn! He kinda nailed it.
I don't think CW will be a bust, but my concern was always...was he the next Mahomes or the next Trevor Lawrence?


Same guy had a similar scouting report on Jayden Daniels and graded him as an NFL backup, so....
Betta Bulleavit
General Manager
Posts: 7,789
And1: 2,895
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
       

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#790 » by Betta Bulleavit » Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:59 pm

fleet wrote:The Williams family is not going to sit still for any more failures.

Read on Twitter

Ugh…… I hate this kind of stuff. As valid of a point as it may be, Caleb’s dad needs to stay the hell in his lane! This nonsense helps nothing.
User avatar
nomorezorro
RealGM
Posts: 13,309
And1: 10,452
Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Location: bfk

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#791 » by nomorezorro » Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:59 pm

Betta Bulleavit wrote:I’m not sure that Daniels’ deep ball is THAT much better than Caleb’s. Although the numbers certainly indicate that, Caleb seemed to have a lot of timing issues this year. But I’ll concede that none the less


nah daniels has a special deep ball. one of his biggest strengths coming into the league and it totally held up his rookie season. even if caleb's improves (which i expect it to) i think that's just always going to be an edge for daniels

if caleb is gonna catch up to daniels, it's probably going to be by being better at executing the more routine stuff. surpassing him in processing, short-to-medium accuracy, ability to capitalize on small windows, etc.
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
dice
RealGM
Posts: 44,147
And1: 13,039
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#792 » by dice » Sun Jan 19, 2025 7:59 pm

fleet wrote:
dice wrote:
fleet wrote:It doesn’t matter, it’s not about control. It’s about maximizing your long term asset.

depends whether caleb is already a long-term consideration in the eyes of ownership

The FO tanked, and spent the better part of 3 years acquiring him. And Ryan Poles barely dodged the grim reaper in the process. There’s no other option here other than force it to work by any means necessary.

letting caleb choose the next coach doesn't necessarily accomplish that though. how the hell does he know who will aid his development the most? i mean, if you're gonna involve him in the decision, he has to be fully involved in the interview process from the beginning. at best, management should be involving him if they have a tough decision to make. "hey caleb, we're leaning toward this guy, but want to know if you have a gut instinct after we share all the info we've gathered"
God help Ukraine
God help those fleeing misery to come here
God help the Middle East
God help the climate
God help US health care
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 70,211
And1: 37,450
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#793 » by fleet » Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:05 pm

dice wrote:
fleet wrote:
dice wrote:depends whether caleb is already a long-term consideration in the eyes of ownership

The FO tanked, and spent the better part of 3 years acquiring him. And Ryan Poles barely dodged the grim reaper in the process. There’s no other option here other than force it to work by any means necessary.

letting caleb choose the next coach doesn't necessarily accomplish that though. how the hell does he know who will aid his development the most? i mean, if you're gonna involve him in the decision, he has to be fully involved in the interview process from the beginning. at best, management should be involving him if they have a tough decision to make. "hey caleb, we're leaning toward this guy, but want to know if you have a gut instinct after we share all the info we've gathered"

I didn’t say let him choose. Find out what coach he likes, and if there’s a Venn diagram overlap, then err toward Caleb’s comfort zone. I do believe the Bears are including him at some point in the process. Which is the right thing to do.
User avatar
Jcool0
RealGM
Posts: 15,421
And1: 9,353
Joined: Jul 12, 2014
Location: Illinois
         

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#794 » by Jcool0 » Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:11 pm

They can now hire a head coach

Read on Twitter
User avatar
Jcool0
RealGM
Posts: 15,421
And1: 9,353
Joined: Jul 12, 2014
Location: Illinois
         

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#795 » by Jcool0 » Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:15 pm

panthermark wrote:I remember posting an article from a former NFL scout that despised CW, and said he should have a 4th round grade (or something like that).
I'm going to see if I can find that article and see if what he saw matches up with the season.

Edit - Found it.
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/04/former-nfl-scout-100-chance-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/former-nfl-scout-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/02/former-nfl-scout-removes-caleb-williams-from-draft-board-due-to-latest-decision/

Damn! He kinda nailed it.
I don't think CW will be a bust, but my concern was always...was he the next Mahomes or the next Trevor Lawrence?


The same guy:

And, when it comes to who he thinks the Commanders would select at No. 2…it’s not Jayden Daniels.

“I have a third round grade on him, and there's no question that he's the best runner and best deep ball thrower in this draft class, but over three seasons, I have concerns,” Kelly said. “No. 1 is his frame – he looks like the thinnest, most slender, most frail-framed quarterback I've seen. I know there's comparisons to Lamar Jackson, but the concern is, all I can see when I close my eyes is RG3 in that catastrophic injury. Daniels doesn’t just run as a hobby, and the bigger concern how this translates to the NFL game is when he's in the pocket – he has happy feet. He bounces around a lot and has a very hard time settling his feet, and in the NFL, footwork is fundamental when it comes to throwing timed routes. You can get away with that in college and manipulate college defenses a lot easier, but he has a slower time to throw, and I don’t think he’s a good translation based on some of those fundamentals. He’s an ideal backup in the NFL, but if it’s not the injuries that are going to get him, it's gonna end up being the fact that he's gonna struggle in the short to intermediate passing game.”
User avatar
Jcool0
RealGM
Posts: 15,421
And1: 9,353
Joined: Jul 12, 2014
Location: Illinois
         

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#796 » by Jcool0 » Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:18 pm

dougthonus wrote:
panthermark wrote:I remember posting an article from a former NFL scout that despised CW, and said he should have a 4th round grade (or something like that).
I'm going to see if I can find that article and see if what he saw matches up with the season.

Edit - Found it.
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/04/former-nfl-scout-100-chance-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/former-nfl-scout-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/02/former-nfl-scout-removes-caleb-williams-from-draft-board-due-to-latest-decision/

Damn! He kinda nailed it.
I don't think CW will be a bust, but my concern was always...was he the next Mahomes or the next Trevor Lawrence?


Same guy had a similar scouting report on Jayden Daniels and graded him as an NFL backup, so....


Read on Twitter
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 70,211
And1: 37,450
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#797 » by fleet » Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:19 pm

Oh my, these guys swear way too much for the Bears. Now we understand.

Read on Twitter
dice
RealGM
Posts: 44,147
And1: 13,039
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#798 » by dice » Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:24 pm

SirKaiser wrote:
panthermark wrote:I remember posting an article from a former NFL scout that despised CW, and said he should have a 4th round grade (or something like that).
I'm going to see if I can find that article and see if what he saw matches up with the season.

Edit - Found it.
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/04/former-nfl-scout-100-chance-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/former-nfl-scout-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/02/former-nfl-scout-removes-caleb-williams-from-draft-board-due-to-latest-decision/

Damn! He kinda nailed it.
I don't think CW will be a bust, but my concern was always...was he the next Mahomes or the next Trevor Lawrence?

This is absurd. Does anyone seriously think that if the Bears took Daniels, and Washington took CW, that the positions would be reversed, or even that much different? The Bears would have still been terrible and people would be questioning whether Daniels is Fields 2.0

70.5 JD
47 caleb

that was QBR. my instinct if draft positions were reversed is something like:

61 JD
56 caleb
God help Ukraine
God help those fleeing misery to come here
God help the Middle East
God help the climate
God help US health care
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 70,211
And1: 37,450
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#799 » by fleet » Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:35 pm

dice wrote:
SirKaiser wrote:
panthermark wrote:I remember posting an article from a former NFL scout that despised CW, and said he should have a 4th round grade (or something like that).
I'm going to see if I can find that article and see if what he saw matches up with the season.

Edit - Found it.
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/04/former-nfl-scout-100-chance-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/01/former-nfl-scout-caleb-williams-is-a-bust/
https://firstroundmock.com/2024/02/former-nfl-scout-removes-caleb-williams-from-draft-board-due-to-latest-decision/

Damn! He kinda nailed it.
I don't think CW will be a bust, but my concern was always...was he the next Mahomes or the next Trevor Lawrence?

This is absurd. Does anyone seriously think that if the Bears took Daniels, and Washington took CW, that the positions would be reversed, or even that much different? The Bears would have still been terrible and people would be questioning whether Daniels is Fields 2.0

70.5 JD
47 caleb

that was QBR. my instinct if draft positions were reversed is something like:

61 JD
56 caleb

The analysis cannot end with the quarterbacks. The Commanders have who the Bears should have hired at head coach, and offensive coordinator. But there’s also no reason Caleb shouldn’t have completed a lot of passes he flat missed on. Can’t blame the Bears for those
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 58,998
And1: 19,082
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:
 

Re: Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft 

Post#800 » by dougthonus » Sun Jan 19, 2025 8:39 pm

fleet wrote:The analysis cannot end with the quarterbacks. The Commanders have who the Bears should have hired at head coach, and offensive coordinator. But there’s also no reason Caleb shouldn’t have completed a lot of passes he flat missed on. Can’t blame the Bears for those.


The Bears had a lot of problems this past year, and I think Washington was set up better for success. That said, as you point out, Caleb Williams play was one of those problems. There was a reason DJ Moore was super pissed all year about his usage and how many times Caleb missed him on open deep balls.

Based on what we've seen from Daniels, he would have done far better with the Bears than Caleb. Granted, as you note you can't really easily compare apples/oranges situations, but Williams was bad even considering his situation.

It doesn't mean that's the end of Williams and his career sucks now, but it definitely should be a big concern right away.

Return to Chicago Bulls