24-25 Trade Thread

[OxAndFox]

I don’t want him making the regular max here but your list is suspect

Doncic
Cavs players
Brown
Tyrese
Banchero
Lavine
Sengun
Harden
Both lakers

And I just stopped midway through the west have an argument

I don’t tip him making it

Doncic - Doesn't qualify. Can't qualify.
Cavs players - Mitchell almost career lows in scoring and assists. Won't make it on current trajectory. Garland not as good as Mitchell either. Team success though? Maybe.
Brown - Nope. Fox is a decent amount ahead.
Tyrese - How is his season better than Fox's? Because it's not on the same planet.
Banchero - Going to be really tough to play 56 of the Magics 39 remaining games.
Lavine - please.
Sengun - Could have a case with team success. Will they have Jokic, Sabonis, KAT, AD and Sengun in an All NBA team? Maybe.
Harden - 39.8 FG%. Come on now.
Both lakers - Had AD in that initial list. Bron MIGHT make it.

So, Fox has a much better chance as we sit right now than almost anyone on your list.

Add Mitchell, Bron, Sengun to my initial list. That's still 18 guys and then Fox with potentially a few more to fall off from a games played perspective. He isn't just close, IMO he is in at this point.
Now, if the Kings don't make the POs then yeah I don't see him making it, but I think that's a given for both he and Domas.

Tyrese - team success, more integral and playing much better as season goes
Steph - legacy - better advanced stats


Some are arguable, but I’m not seeing it

Tyrese - team success. And when the Kings win today the records will be 22-20 vs 23-19 (probably 24-19 vs Philly). Hardly a difference when you factor in Fox's season vs Tyrese's. It's really not close.

Steph - legacy. Doubt it. Having worst scoring season since 19-20 where he played all of 5 games due to injury. Prior to that it is 2012-13.
You still have to be close for legacy and he's not. If they make the POs then yes I could agree.
There are lots of guys with inferior stats and similar team records that you are giving the nod to for some reason. We know why, but still.
If Fox is close at the end of the season and the Kings are in the PO picture, watch the Klutch machine go to work. You think they are going to let that type of money just go by because....why?

[OxAndFox]

And again, I'm not saying Fox is a lock. IMO he is actually in the All NBA team. Still half a season to go and any of the guys that IMO are well below him, have a great 2nd half and Fox slips down to 23ppg etc, then yeah it's closer. Actually if he does that the Kings aren't making the POs and others would have gone past him, so not closer, he would be out.

[BoogieTime]

Doncic - Doesn't qualify. Can't qualify.
Cavs players - Mitchell almost career lows in scoring and assists. Won't make it on current trajectory. Garland not as good as Mitchell either. Team success though? Maybe.
Brown - Nope. Fox is a decent amount ahead.
Tyrese - How is his season better than Fox's? Because it's not on the same planet.
Banchero - Going to be really tough to play 56 of the Magics 39 remaining games.
Lavine - please.
Sengun - Could have a case with team success. Will they have Jokic, Sabonis, KAT, AD and Sengun in an All NBA team? Maybe.
Harden - 39.8 FG%. Come on now.
Both lakers - Had AD in that initial list. Bron MIGHT make it.

So, Fox has a much better chance as we sit right now than almost anyone on your list.

Add Mitchell, Bron, Sengun to my initial list. That's still 18 guys and then Fox with potentially a few more to fall off from a games played perspective. He isn't just close, IMO he is in at this point.
Now, if the Kings don't make the POs then yeah I don't see him making it, but I think that's a given for both he and Domas.

Tyrese - team success, more integral and playing much better as season goes
Steph - legacy - better advanced stats


Some are arguable, but I’m not seeing it

Tyrese - team success. And when the Kings win today the records will be 22-20 vs 23-19 (probably 24-19 vs Philly). Hardly a difference when you factor in Fox's season vs Tyrese's. It's really not close.

Steph - legacy. Doubt it. Having worst scoring season since 19-20 where he played all of 5 games due to injury. Prior to that it is 2012-13.
You still have to be close for legacy and he's not. If they make the POs then yes I could agree.
There are lots of guys with inferior stats and similar team records that you are giving the nod to for some reason. We know why, but still.
If Fox is close at the end of the season and the Kings are in the PO picture, watch the Klutch machine go to work. You think they are going to let that type of money just go by because....why?

And I said cavs players because as of now ~3 could be on it, on both sides of the ball

Tyrese v Fox is evaluation. Tyrese is the engine playmaker of his team, though Fox volume scores I think Rese is more impactful

Let’s put it this way, pacer fans don’t question here and there if his presence actually helps the team a lot

[OxAndFox]

Tyrese - team success, more integral and playing much better as season goes
Steph - legacy - better advanced stats


Some are arguable, but I’m not seeing it

Tyrese - team success. And when the Kings win today the records will be 22-20 vs 23-19 (probably 24-19 vs Philly). Hardly a difference when you factor in Fox's season vs Tyrese's. It's really not close.

Steph - legacy. Doubt it. Having worst scoring season since 19-20 where he played all of 5 games due to injury. Prior to that it is 2012-13.
You still have to be close for legacy and he's not. If they make the POs then yes I could agree.
There are lots of guys with inferior stats and similar team records that you are giving the nod to for some reason. We know why, but still.
If Fox is close at the end of the season and the Kings are in the PO picture, watch the Klutch machine go to work. You think they are going to let that type of money just go by because....why?

And I said cavs players because as of now ~3 could be on it, on both sides of the ball

Tyrese v Fox is evaluation. Tyrese is the engine playmaker of his team, though Fox volume scores I think Rese is more impactful

Let’s put it this way, pacer fans don’t question here and there if his presence actually helps the team a lot

Now I've heard it all. Mobley will make the All NBA team instead of Fox. Typically All NBA leans majorly, like totally towards offense unless you're a juggernaut (Gobert/Wemby will this year). All Defensive teams are defensive. Mobley will be there. He will not make an All NBA team. NEXT.

Just because YOU question Fox, doesn't mean jack squat. What his input to this team is, isn't in question, just as like you say, Tyrese's isn't with the Pacers. In fact, look at the PG minutes with Tyrese out, they're pretty spectacular. Why is that? Can you question that? Same as Monk here in Sacramento. He looks brilliant when Fox is out and he gets a little bump in usage. That doesn't diminish what Hali and Fox do for their team when they're in.

We get it dude, you don't like Fox and downplay every single thing he does and just spout off generalities from fans. It's not the AS game. Fans don't get a voice. At this point is it anything more than just trying to convince yourself? Do you not hear the echo? You even tried to make a case for Zach friggin Lavine, who has no hope, not 1% chance of making an All NBA team ahead of Fox.

[BoogieTime]

Tyrese - team success. And when the Kings win today the records will be 22-20 vs 23-19 (probably 24-19 vs Philly). Hardly a difference when you factor in Fox's season vs Tyrese's. It's really not close.

Steph - legacy. Doubt it. Having worst scoring season since 19-20 where he played all of 5 games due to injury. Prior to that it is 2012-13.
You still have to be close for legacy and he's not. If they make the POs then yes I could agree.
There are lots of guys with inferior stats and similar team records that you are giving the nod to for some reason. We know why, but still.
If Fox is close at the end of the season and the Kings are in the PO picture, watch the Klutch machine go to work. You think they are going to let that type of money just go by because....why?

And I said cavs players because as of now ~3 could be on it, on both sides of the ball

Tyrese v Fox is evaluation. Tyrese is the engine playmaker of his team, though Fox volume scores I think Rese is more impactful

Let’s put it this way, pacer fans don’t question here and there if his presence actually helps the team a lot

Now I've heard it all. Mobley will make the All NBA team instead of Fox. Typically All NBA leans majorly, like totally towards offense unless you're a juggernaut (Gobert/Wemby will this year). All Defensive teams are defensive. Mobley will be there. He will not make an All NBA team. NEXT.

Just because YOU question Fox, doesn't mean jack squat. What his input to this team is, isn't in question, just as like you say, Tyrese's isn't with the Pacers. In fact, look at the PG minutes with Tyrese out, they're pretty spectacular. Why is that? Can you question that? Same as Monk here in Sacramento. He looks brilliant when Fox is out and he gets a little bump in usage. That doesn't diminish what Hali and Fox do for their team when they're in.

We get it dude, you don't like Fox and downplay every single thing he does and just spout off generalities from fans. It's not the AS game. Fans don't get a voice. At this point is it anything more than just trying to convince yourself? Do you not hear the echo? You even tried to make a case for Zach friggin Lavine, who has no hope, not 1% chance of making an All NBA team ahead of Fox.

Bro, in what world did you hear defensive players can’t make it?

Mobley affects the game 3x Fox and will make it over him, do we need to take this elsewhere? Allen might too

What PG minutes without Tyrese are you referring?

[BoogieTime]

and our rumored package of Huerter/lyles/one first for Johnson might be the lead offer according to wiretap/stein line. One pick only if we must trade for role players which I’m hesitant, and hopefully it’s the already swapped pick

[BoogieTime]

Not to be negative, but we have differing views on Fox..

GMs can feel the way you guys do about his worth, or they can feel closer to I do.. (RealGM trade board is in the middle it seems)

I'm worried there is a market with several interested teams lowballing us..

I hope thats not true, but getting Eason/Whitmore/firsts/FVV etc... just not seeing it

Yes yes.. We know. The guy who lacks "innate motor" is sleepwalking his way to another 26-6-5-2 season while shooting nearly 50% from the field. He's worth peanuts. Kings should just give him away. I'm sure Sabonis is prepared to drop 35 in the playoffs every night. Checks Notes* oh Kevon Looney gave him fits the last time we went to the playoffs and Fox went toe to toe with a GOAT, hmmm. Doesn't fit our narrative though lets pretend that didn't happen lol.

He volume scores and rebounds well but doesn’t space/arguably ball stops and hard to play off ball without traditional pg playmaking/fights to be average defensively despite steals in terms of advanced metrics

Volume scoring at average ts% (or below), we can argue about how attractive it is on the market but it’s a particular fit

I hope you guys are right, one of us will eat are words if Vegas odds are correct (they had him moving last I checked)

Eating a lowball offer would be a tough sell to the fanbase though, and it’s true getting Fox to play consistently and at his playoff heights (one playoffs, didn’t appear last playin post season) might outweigh taking little for him. But if you can recoup some value I’m fine with Monk/Keon starting with some value from the trade. Monk is our playmaker and second vital piece and the metrics of Keon are hard to argue and I’m a fan of Devins future

Your also personally placating him, his ultimatums and overtures leaving should be treated as off putting personally to the fanbase

[KF10]

I'm more inclined trading Fox now (even more so) because I believe Monk @ the 1 position completely unlocks a lot of good in the starting unit, imo. Especially with Domas. Monk may not replicate Fox's sheer scoring output but Monk has the edge in playmaking and overall synergy with the starting unit over Fox, imo.

[LightTheBeam]

I'm more inclined trading Fox now (even more so) because I believe Monk @ the 1 position completely unlocks a lot of good in the starting unit, imo. Especially with Domas. Monk may not replicate Fox's sheer scoring output but Monk has the edge in playmaking and overall synergy with the starting unit over Fox, imo.

It just depends on the offer to me. But if hes holding the franchise hostage I'd move him before it became a problem.

Im just not excited about the Rockets deal. Jabari, reed, picks? A stiff forward, a guard who doesn't look like he's going to be much physically, and some late firsts.

Im higher on the spurs deal even if castle is held out.

Sochan, vassell, Collins, 2025 1st, 27 1st, swap canceled for fox, huerter, Len.

Sabonis/lyles/Collins
Keegan/sochan
Derozan/
Vassel/Keon
Monk/Carter

Id worry about closing games in the playoffs, but at least it would be a fun fast paced team. And adding sochan/vassell/Collins brings a ton of size and defense.

[BoogieTime]

I'm more inclined trading Fox now (even more so) because I believe Monk @ the 1 position completely unlocks a lot of good in the starting unit, imo. Especially with Domas. Monk may not replicate Fox's sheer scoring output but Monk has the edge in playmaking and overall synergy with the starting unit over Fox, imo.

It just depends on the offer to me. But if hes holding the franchise hostage I'd move him before it became a problem.

Im just not excited about the Rockets deal. Jabari, reed, picks? A stiff forward, a guard who doesn't look like he's going to be much physically, and some late firsts.

Im higher on the spurs deal even if castle is held out.

Sochan, vassell, Collins, 2025 1st, 27 1st, swap canceled for fox, huerter, Len.

Sabonis/lyles/Collins
Keegan/sochan
Derozan/
Vassel/Keon
Monk/Carter

Id worry about closing games in the playoffs, but at least it would be a fun fast paced team. And adding sochan/vassell/Collins brings a ton of size and defense.

are these deals on the t/t board?

[KF10]

It just depends on the offer to me. But if hes holding the franchise hostage I'd move him before it became a problem.

Im just not excited about the Rockets deal. Jabari, reed, picks? A stiff forward, a guard who doesn't look like he's going to be much physically, and some late firsts.

Im higher on the spurs deal even if castle is held out.

Sochan, vassell, Collins, 2025 1st, 27 1st, swap canceled for fox, huerter, Len.

Sabonis/lyles/Collins
Keegan/sochan
Derozan/
Vassel/Keon
Monk/Carter

Id worry about closing games in the playoffs, but at least it would be a fun fast paced team. And adding sochan/vassell/Collins brings a ton of size and defense.

I would definitely ask for Jalen Green (or Eason & Whitmore) but from what I understand, Green isn't eligible to be traded until the offseason.

It comes down to how much faith you have in the potential of Smith Jr, and Reed. I think Smith Jr has pretty good ceiling. His career numbers are very similar to Keegan but Smith Jr is younger than Keegan.

And about Reed. I thought his stock was inflated coming into the draft. But he is still pretty young and just destroyed G-League competition in his debut. I don't want to write him off just yet.

Is it enough for Fox? I don't think so. But if this is the only trade package offered to the Kings, I'll take it tbh

But yeah, I like the Spurs package more though.

[LightTheBeam]

It just depends on the offer to me. But if hes holding the franchise hostage I'd move him before it became a problem.

Im just not excited about the Rockets deal. Jabari, reed, picks? A stiff forward, a guard who doesn't look like he's going to be much physically, and some late firsts.

Im higher on the spurs deal even if castle is held out.

Sochan, vassell, Collins, 2025 1st, 27 1st, swap canceled for fox, huerter, Len.

Sabonis/lyles/Collins
Keegan/sochan
Derozan/
Vassel/Keon
Monk/Carter

Id worry about closing games in the playoffs, but at least it would be a fun fast paced team. And adding sochan/vassell/Collins brings a ton of size and defense.

I would definitely ask for Jalen Green (or Eason & Whitmore) but from what I understand, Green isn't eligible to be traded until the offseason.

It comes down to how much faith you have in the potential of Smith Jr, and Reed. I think Smith Jr has pretty good ceiling. His career numbers are very similar to Keegan but Smith Jr is younger than Keegan.

And about Reed. I thought his stock was inflated coming into the draft. But he is still pretty young and just destroyed G-League competition in his debut. I don't want to write him off just yet.

Is it enough for Fox? I don't think so. But if this is the only trade package offered to the Kings, I'll take it tbh

But yeah, I like the Spurs package more though.

Jabari is similar to Keegan (only worse imo) and yes he's younger but the times I watch him he doesn't really impress me. I just don't see him as a top player in a Fox package.

Reed gives me smaller Jimmer/Stauskas ptsd. Isaac Jones and Crawford are lighting up gleague, I'm not moved by that. Maybe I'll be dead wrong, but I do not want him at all.

Eason is nice, but the convo on the t&t board with rockets fans was the team has zero interest in moving Eason/Amen, which are the two who really make the most sense for sac.

I don't see the rush in moving Fox. His body language and actions tell me he's not unhappy. He wants the team to improve, so do we. He and his wife love it here and I think he wants to win in sac. We saw a series with monk/Fox and the 2 worked well together, I don't see having both as a fit issue. Maybe the 3 including derozan doesn't work as well, but you trade the 35 year old not the 2 best friends imo.

[KF10]

Jabari is similar to Keegan (only worse imo) and yes he's younger but the times I watch him he doesn't really impress me. I just don't see him as a top player in a Fox package.

Reed gives me smaller Jimmer/Stauskas ptsd. Isaac Jones and Crawford are lighting up gleague, I'm not moved by that. Maybe I'll be dead wrong, but I do not want him at all.

Eason is nice, but the convo on the t&t board with rockets fans was the team has zero interest in moving Eason/Amen, which are the two who really make the most sense for sac.

I don't see the rush in moving Fox. His body language and actions tell me he's not unhappy. He wants the team to improve, so do we. He and his wife love it here and I think he wants to win in sac. We saw a series with monk/Fox and the 2 worked well together, I don't see having both as a fit issue. Maybe the 3 including derozan doesn't work as well, but you trade the 35 year old not the 2 best friends imo.

There will be a bidding war regardless if Fox moved by the trade deadline or off-season. I guess it depends if Monte thinks he can get more value now vs off-season.

Fox and his camp made the first move (Fox's comments on the Draymond's podcast & Rich Paul's meeting with Monte and co). It also didn't help that Brown took shots at Fox at post-game pressers after each game either. That said, I don't think Fox will be available until the off-season unless Fox specifically asks for a trade now or there is a home-run deal that the Kings can't simply refuse.

Also, let's not forget Fox is still pushing for the super-max. Fox has more than enough incentive to stay with the Kings at least until this off-season before making his decision, imo.

Doug Christie as head coach gave the necessary shot in the arm that this team really needed. 8 wins out of the last 10 games? This bodes well for both the Kings' aspiration for the playoffs birth and Fox's chances at the super-max. It is a mutual partnership right now.

[Crimson King]

Patrick Williams could be the next PJ Washington.

I clearly prefer to trade for him rather than Cameron Johnson.

[OxAndFox]

Bro, in what world did you hear defensive players can’t make it?

Mobley affects the game 3x Fox and will make it over him, do we need to take this elsewhere? Allen might too

What PG minutes without Tyrese are you referring?

Bro, I didn't say that. Read it properly.
And the PG minutes when Tyrese is out, you see huge assist numbers for his replacement. Doesn't mean they're on the same level as Tyrese. Hali does things at a different level than them. That's what people tend to forget when Fox misses time. The numbers are great, but that doesn't diminish what Fox does when he is in.

I LOL every time you make idle threats of "take this elsewhere" because as I said, Fox making the All NBA team or not isn't a fan vote. It has no bearing on anything NBA award related. They wouldn't have Sabonis in the AS Game, All NBA teams or anything close either because RealGM isn't a Sabonis friendly spot. Are they right about Sabonis?

[OxAndFox]

Anyway, you have trashed this convo that was bought up in good faith. Trust Boogie to do that with anything Fox related. Not going to respond any further.

[BoogieTime]

Anyway, you have trashed this convo that was bought up in good faith. Trust Boogie to do that with anything Fox related. Not going to respond any further.

No, you did

Your tone is always combative when ideas are being exchanged

If you reread, you see stuff that revolves around ‘my opinion’ is this when you spastically have to try to say things are fact that you are saying

[LightTheBeam]

Im curious how this team would handle adding a Cam Johnson. The vibes are so good right now. The days of putting Monk back on the bench are gone. Would they ask Derozan to take a bench role? I highly doubt it.

Can't imagine you give up good assets to ask Cam not to start. He's not going to be happy with that.

All roads lead to John Collins lol

[LightTheBeam]

Patrick Williams could be the next PJ Washington.

I clearly prefer to trade for him rather than Cameron Johnson.

Hes interesting especially for this team. He can hit the 3 and play defense, but he's nothing special. A smaller Trey Lyles.

Really just depends what we have to give up.

If its Huerter + a 2nd id take the risk.

[OGSactownballer]

Patrick Williams could be the next PJ Washington.

I clearly prefer to trade for him rather than Cameron Johnson.

Possible.

And he comes much cheaper likely.