Bears 10.0: GM and coach watch before the draft

Post #861 » by **fleet** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 12:18 am

dice · Post #862 » by **dice** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 12:23 am

dougthonus wrote:
dice wrote:hey, maybe philly promised to draft him if he didn't get behind the wheel for the length of his deal!

I suspect instead they overlooked something that almost certainly would not matter and took the guy with an overwhelming amount of talent relative to everyone else on the board, and 2 years later the thing that would almost certainly not matter doesn't and the overwhelming amount of talent does which is what I (and many many others) would have predicted.

sure. the problem is when the thing that is highly unlikely to matter DOES matter, it can matter in a big way

as i recall, his coaches wouldn't vouch for him either. was eberflus gonna keep this guy in line? pssh

dice · Post #863 » by **dice** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 12:25 am

fleet wrote:

Read on Twitter

could also be due to a small number of bettors chasing a rumor (kinda like will levis phenomena). can't imagine the market for these is robust

dice · Post #864 » by **dice** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 12:28 am

philly almost became poster child for "prevent defense prevents winning" today

panthermark · Post #865 » by **panthermark** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 12:50 am

dice wrote:
panthermark wrote:
dice wrote:hey, you just go with whatever suits your narrative. speak up every time carter has a big game. OR you can be intellectually honest and look at the bigger picture. like this:

2024

dexter 39 pressures in 356 pass snaps (11.0%) carter 53 in 541 (9.8%)
carter 36 hurries (6.7%), dexter 19 (5.3%)
dexter 6 sacks, carter 5 sacks
dexter 39.5 tackles, carter 32.5
carter 27 stops, dexter 24
dexter 14 hits, carter 12
carter 6 batted, dexter 2
carter 2 FF, dexter 0
carter 74 PFF, dexter 70

there has been no bigger critic of ryan poles around here than me. but i have no problem giving him credit where due. carter's market value was what it was for a reason. trading down, taking OT in rd. 1 instead of DT, and taking a DT w/ the additional acquired pick later in the draft is usually the smart move. and this was no exception. DESPITE carter being a stud on his best behavior

I don't understand this particular comparison. The trade was the 2023 #9 for the 2023 #10 and a 2024 4th rounder.
The swap was Wright and the 2024 4th rounder for Carter.
What does Dexter have to do with it?
You are making it Wright and Dexter vs Carter instead of Wright and the 2024 4th rounder vs Carter.

If you want to bring in Dexter, with Wright you need to either assume we didn't draft Dex (if Carter was drafted) and would have went with another player (OL), or we drafted Dexter as well (with Carter) and didn't draft Pickens.

i got the trade botched. my bad. still like the decision to take OT there and DT later. DON'T like the decision to draft a damn punter

if they took carter, it is likely they would have still taken dexter and stevenson

No worries, I figured it was something like that.
The thing is that I don't dislike Wright. I think he is fine. I just thought that Carter had a higher ceiling as DT than Wright did as an OT. Wright seems like the solid 10 year starter that might go to a Pro-Bowl or two. Nothing wrong with that. But Carter seems like he could be a go that goes 7 or 8 times in his career....assuming he keeps his head on straight.

I wanted to go Carter in the 1st, OL in the 2nd instead of the reverse. Although going Carter and Dex would have made for a crazy good D-line. I wonder if we would have bothered trading for Sweat?

Speaking of Carter, it reminds me of the luck topic from earlier. Carter, Anderson and Young were all being discussed as the potential #1 pick. Luck is having Lovie send you the #1 pick, trading down to #9, and having one of the guys that was talked about going #1 fall to #9 anyway.

Opportunity is when luck meets preparation.

Dresden · Post #866 » by **Dresden** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 1:10 am

Another great game in the elements.

Post #867 » by **dougthonus** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 1:22 am

dice wrote:sure. the problem is when the thing that is highly unlikely to matter DOES matter, it can matter in a big way

If we were drafting #1, sure. Drafting at #9 where you have a talent that is potentially #1 worthy? No, you take that chance. There are a million things that can go wrong with a pick.

as i recall, his coaches wouldn't vouch for him either. was eberflus gonna keep this guy in line? pssh

Not shocking under the circumstances, but would be curious what they said behind closed doors, but he said this prior to the draft in March.

“There’s been a lot of questions about Jalen, which probably was inevitable anyway,” Smart said when asked about NFL teams communicating with him on Carter. “When you start talking about, I got a lot of questions about Travon Walker when he came out. There’s a lot of questions generally, but with the situation, probably more questions and more direct. You just try to be honest and talk about the experiences we had with Jalen here. Jalen did not have to come back and play after his first injury, nor after his second injury. Both times he wanted to overcome that injury. He begged us to put him in in games he was hurt. The competitive character he’s shown I think has been really good. I also think his teammates really respect Jalen. Jalen earned the respect of his teammates. They love being around him. That’s a lot of things you can say about him.”

“Yeah, he’s a generational talent. He’s very talented,” Smart said. “I’ve been around coaching for 18 years and there’s very few guys I’ve coached that have the talent that he has.”

Post #868 » by **fleet** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 1:39 am

dougthonus wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:No one is questioning his talent. If his character wasn’t an issue he would have been top 3.

I really wanted Carter that year, because I thought he was getting dinged over something unrelated to his likely performance on a team. Was there anything to the character issues outside of the tragic accident when he was drag racing?

To me, it's the type of thing that is likely life changing for him and not likely to occur again, nor is it related to his football work ethic or how he is with teammates.

FWIW, to my knowledge nothing meaningful has anything come up with him as a character issue in Philly either. A quick search on the topic has me finding a shop lifting incident that was a misunderstanding, some social media beef with a guy on another team, and him being late to a team meeting, which overall doesn't seem like a grand list of things I'd be concerned about for a pro bowl talent guy.

There’s this big narrative about team character being so important, and yet guys like Claypool, Davis, and Stevenson are continually brought in anyway. Yet, for some arbitrary reason, the buck stops with Carter. And that’s been an interesting part about the Poles tenure. The inconsistency. Spotty application of “character” standards. One minute you’ll be talking of building slowly the right way, the next you’ll be unnecessarily trading away draft picks for older guys and weird guys, and paying big money. Signing Nate Davis against all advice. At the end of the day, the team was bereft of football character, and it craters.

Post #869 » by **fleet** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 1:52 am

dougthonus wrote:
dice wrote:sure. the problem is when the thing that is highly unlikely to matter DOES matter, it can matter in a big way

If we were drafting #1, sure. Drafting at #9 where you have a talent that is potentially #1 worthy? No, you take that chance. There are a million things that can go wrong with a pick….

You have already traded down to #9 and gotten a haul of picks/talent. You are ahead of the game even if you decided to run out the clock and not pick anyone at all with your #9. In the lifespan of NFL football, there may never again be a better time to take on some risk with a pick.

Charlesareed · Post #870 » by **Charlesareed** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:17 am

Game over Lamar fails yet again smh

Post #871 » by **fleet** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:23 am

MVP Josh?

Jcool0 · Post #872 » by **Jcool0** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:29 am

fleet wrote:MVP Josh?

Jacksons had the better game.

IliketheBullsNBearstoo · Post #873 » by **IliketheBullsNBearstoo** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:31 am

DamnLamar held the ball too long there. Oh well it was a TD I guess.

panthermark · Post #874 » by **panthermark** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:31 am

He dropped it!

IliketheBullsNBearstoo · Post #875 » by **IliketheBullsNBearstoo** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:31 am

Redemption Andrews…oh nm

Betta Bulleavit · Post #876 » by **Betta Bulleavit** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:32 am

How do you blame LJ here??

Jcool0 · Post #877 » by **Jcool0** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:32 am

IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:DamnLamar held the ball too long there. Oh well it was a TD I guess.

Lol what?

IliketheBullsNBearstoo · Post #878 » by **IliketheBullsNBearstoo** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:32 am

Jcool0 wrote:
IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:DamnLamar held the ball too long there. Oh well it was a TD I guess.

Lol what?

Lol

IliketheBullsNBearstoo · Post #879 » by **IliketheBullsNBearstoo** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:35 am

MVP MVP

patryk7754 · Post #880 » by **patryk7754** » Mon Jan 20, 2025 2:35 am

dougthonus wrote:
patryk7754 wrote:No one is questioning his talent. If his character wasn’t an issue he would have been top 3.

I really wanted Carter that year, because I thought he was getting dinged over something unrelated to his likely performance on a team. Was there anything to the character issues outside of the tragic accident when he was drag racing?

To me, it's the type of thing that is likely life changing for him and not likely to occur again, nor is it related to his football work ethic or how he is with teammates.

FWIW, to my knowledge nothing meaningful has anything come up with him as a character issue in Philly either. A quick search on the topic has me finding a shop lifting incident that was a misunderstanding, some social media beef with a guy on another team, and him being late to a team meeting, which overall doesn't seem like a grand list of things I'd be concerned about for a pro bowl talent guy.

I Also wanted to draft him. And from an outside prospective, nothing that happened would have prevented me from drafting. I actually felt really bad for him becuase he did something a lot of dumb 21 year olds do but the ultimate price was paid. But someone died for actions he was directly involved in so I won’t blame poles for wanting to pass on him and then drafting a position that was a bigger need. And drafted a player that most people wer excited for.

As for things he’s done since being drafted. Nothing major but he’s thrown a few temper tantrums. I’m pretty sure he got in a fight with a team mate. He and the coach had to be separated. And I think lat season some small controversy came up because he threatened a SF offensive lineman (but it could have been the other way around). All that wasn’t too big of a deal but again, if he wasn’t in the right environment, it could’ve turned into more consistent outburst. Especially if he was on a losing team. I have a good feeling Carter would’ve have been very vocal about how bad coaching was way before Johnson did what he did in the locker room.

Also people bring up guys like Stevenson or whoever. Nothing major one died. It’s not really the same. And if you don’t like Stevenson for talking too much, you would hate Carter as he is one of the biggest talkers in the nfl (one of my favorite things about him)

Not a one for one comparison but plenty of teams with terrible offensive lines could have used Richie incognito, who is a pro bowl /all pro talent, but he was a major dick head so he was never signed (until the raiders came to save him)