Bulls @ Blazers 8pm CT Jan. 19 2025

[cocktailswith_2short]

He may be a great coach but he's lost the team . We could put one of those flappy inflatable things as coach and probably get a bounce .

[WesPeace]

It's not easy root for Billy D. I think he's a great coach, but this seems like a mismatch.

You probably wanted to say you dont think he is a great coach ..

He's got a long history of being a fantastic coach and that will continue after his stay here. I have no doubt

nice trolling aka sarcam..

[Stratmaster]

It's not easy root for Billy D. I think he's a great coach, but this seems like a mismatch.

You probably wanted to say you dont think he is a great coach ..

He's got a long history of being a fantastic coach and that will continue after his stay here. I have no doubt

He has a 5 year history of disappointing and under-performing. He has coached in the NBA for 10 seasons and made it to the 2nd round once, his first season as coach with Durant and Westbrook finishing 4th and 5th in the MVP voting and both making all-NBA. A team that had a 3-1 lead to get to the Finals and managed to lose 3 straight games to blow it (IIRC).

The next season, with Durant out they won only 47 games despite still having the MVP of the league and never got out of the first round again. They were a team that always got into post season play, but never got past the first round. Sound familiar? This is with Westbrook and players like Paul George, Melo, SGA, Chris Paul and role players including a couple DPOY candidates (Adams, Roberson) and Oladipo, Jerami Grant. Their 6th man was in the 6th man of the year voting 4 of his seasons there (Schroder and Freedom). Yet the team disappointed and under-performed getting weaker each season until everyone moved on after a 44 win season.

Cut to the Bulls. Between his first and 2nd season the Bulls get Vuc, Lonzo, Ball, Caruso and Green to go with Lavine. There you go Billy! There's all your talent. The Bulls take off like a bat out of hell. He loses one player, Ball (remember Durant) and the team goes from being on top of the division to a 46 win finish. I will add that inexplicably, Coby and PWill somehow play more minutes per game than Javonte Green who significantly outplayed both of them. The Bulls lose in the first round 4-1 after being talked about as early season ECF favorites.

Season 3. 40 wins. Lose the 2nd game of the Play-in. Season 4. 39 wins. Lose the 2nd game of the play-ins. This season looks like the complete meltdown has hit and a team that should have at least been a 6/7 seed looks like it will be lucky to get to 35 wins. Billy Donovan has no long history of being an excellent coach. He just has a long history of mediocrity. At Florida for 20 seasons? Made the Final 4 four times? Not bad I guess. Doesn't seem like college coaching excellence. Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't paid much attention to college basketball in decades since the good players started leaving after their first season. Even if that is a "fantastic" college coach; it ain't the NBA.

But he is a player's coach, right?
He alienated and neutered his biggest talent in Lavine.
It appears the coaches can't work with their biggest "prospect" Williams. Despite giving him all the leash he could possibly expect.
It would appear Craig and Carter aren't very happy either.
He let Vuc and Demar dictate the game plan after 1 game last season.
The 2 players who seem(ed) really happy with him? Demar and Coby. And why wouldn't they?

But he recognizes talent and how to use it, right?
Then why is Coby still starting over Ayo?
Why has he been starting Williams whenever he is available for 5 seasons?
Why did Coby and Williams play over Green early on?
Hey, where is that Markannen guy?

A great development coach?
Name me one player other than Demar who excelled and developed under Billy. Ayo. If Billy had anything to do with that I give him credit for that dude. But Lauri? Hell no, didn't have a clue what to do with him. Williams? Coby? Terry? DJJ? Phillips? I can't think of a player who came onto this roster from another team, or left the roster and went to another team, who performed better in Chicago under Billy; again, other than maybe Demar.

I don't think even his biggest supporters are defending his in-game decisions, rotations or play calling so I won't even go there.

As long as Billy is head coach, this team will not make progress past middle-of the pack just under .500; unless they somehow get the next prime Durant/Westbrook pairing.

[Stratmaster]

You probably wanted to say you dont think he is a great coach ..

He's got a long history of being a fantastic coach and that will continue after his stay here. I have no doubt

nice trolling aka sarcam..

Guru may be trolling with his positive outlooks, IDK. But if he is, it is masterful because it is always with an element of truth to it. There are all kinds of people who believe this about Donovan. That he is a great, even legendary, coach. A poster recently told me he expects Donovan to be in the hall of fame. If Donovan is ever put in the hall of fame it will be because of quantity, not quality.

[Stratmaster]

Let’s keep our pick. I don’t care about winning anymore. The wheels are falling off. We will be 10 games under .500 very soon. What happened to this team?

Zach and Vuc are the only two players you can count on to not have completely awful games. The rest are a crapshoot. I think AK should be fired. He failed. Period.

I don’t think you’ve cared about winning since day one this season lol but anyways your right AK has failed and wouldn’t blame the Reinsdorfs if they fired him tomorrow along with Billy.

Are you kidding? It would restore my faith in the Reinsdorfs if they fired them both tomorrow. Well...except that I never had any real faith in them.

[dougthonus]

Guru may be trolling with his positive outlooks, IDK. But if he is, it is masterful because it is always with an element of truth to it. There are all kinds of people who believe this about Donovan. That he is a great, even legendary, coach. A poster recently told me he expects Donovan to be in the hall of fame. If Donovan is ever put in the hall of fame it will be because of quantity, not quality.

I mean, it was me who made the HOF comment. How many eligible coaches have won two NCAA titles and didn't make the HOF? I would guess the answer to that is zero. That said, maybe I'm wrong. IT seems like active coaches who have his stats are often already in, so maybe he won't get in. He has four final 4s, and everyone else who has that many is already inducted. Ed Jucker and Dan Hurley are the only guys with 2 title wins that aren't in.

That said, as an NBA coach, I've consistently my view on coaches is:
Only a few really move the needle consistently
The next group will have ups/downs more related to the roster and their fit with it
The bad ones sink a team regardless

Billy is in the second of those 3 groups. I think it's probably time to move on from him. He looks like he's lost the team at this point, which is when coaches in that 2nd group have to go.

[Stratmaster]

Guru may be trolling with his positive outlooks, IDK. But if he is, it is masterful because it is always with an element of truth to it. There are all kinds of people who believe this about Donovan. That he is a great, even legendary, coach. A poster recently told me he expects Donovan to be in the hall of fame. If Donovan is ever put in the hall of fame it will be because of quantity, not quality.

I mean, it was me who made the HOF comment. How many eligible coaches have won two NCAA titles and didn't make the HOF? I would guess the answer to that is zero. That said, maybe I'm wrong. IT seems like active coaches who have his stats are often already in, so maybe he won't get in. He has four final 4s, and everyone else who has that many is already inducted. Ed Jucker and Dan Hurley are the only guys with 2 title wins that aren't in.

That said, as an NBA coach, I've consistently my view on coaches is:
Only a few really move the needle consistently
The next group will have ups/downs more related to the roster and their fit with it
The bad ones sink a team regardless

Billy is in the second of those 3 groups. I think it's probably time to move on from him. He looks like he's lost the team at this point, which is when coaches in that 2nd group have to go.

I don't pay much attention to HOF's as they are usually popularity and title contests not representative of talent. I guess in basketball there is only on coaches HOF for all of high school, College and Pro or something like that? If so, then sure. Put him in the HOF. If it is for the pro level only; no way. He is a horrible coach at the pro level. Likely overrated at the college level also with 4 final four appearances in 20 years at a big name program; but I don't follow college closely enough to claim to have any credibility.

[Stratmaster]

Guru may be trolling with his positive outlooks, IDK. But if he is, it is masterful because it is always with an element of truth to it. There are all kinds of people who believe this about Donovan. That he is a great, even legendary, coach. A poster recently told me he expects Donovan to be in the hall of fame. If Donovan is ever put in the hall of fame it will be because of quantity, not quality.

I mean, it was me who made the HOF comment. How many eligible coaches have won two NCAA titles and didn't make the HOF? I would guess the answer to that is zero. That said, maybe I'm wrong. IT seems like active coaches who have his stats are often already in, so maybe he won't get in. He has four final 4s, and everyone else who has that many is already inducted. Ed Jucker and Dan Hurley are the only guys with 2 title wins that aren't in.

That said, as an NBA coach, I've consistently my view on coaches is:
Only a few really move the needle consistently
The next group will have ups/downs more related to the roster and their fit with it
The bad ones sink a team regardless

Billy is in the second of those 3 groups. I think it's probably time to move on from him. He looks like he's lost the team at this point, which is when coaches in that 2nd group have to go.

Oh, BTW. I tried to respond to your message but this site never cooperates much with me. It doesn't appear it ever went anywhere. Sometimes they just sit in my outbox, but this one isn't even sitting there. The gist of my response, although I certainly put it much more eloquently, is that it would change my opinion from Billy is a completely horrible coach, to "Billy is a mediocre coach who needs to get a set of cojones".

[dougthonus]

I don't pay much attention to HOF's as they are usually popularity and title contests not representative of talent. I guess in basketball there is only on coaches HOF for all of high school, College and Pro or something like that? If so, then sure. Put him in the HOF. If it is for the pro level only; no way. He is a horrible coach at the pro level. Likely overrated at the college level also with 4 final four appearances in 20 years at a big name program; but I don't follow college closely enough to claim to have any credibility.

FWIW, my point around Billy and the HOF is that you seem to indicate he's a trash coach. He isn't. All the players who play for him have said otherwise. HE's had a ton of success. He's a fine coach.

There's a wide gap between him and an actual trash coach like Boylen, Boylan, VDN, etc... I don't think Billy is the answer. He's just not high on my list of problems. That said I would not mind/worry if he were replaced.

[Jcool0]

This is a bad year for the Bulls. Yet they have one possible bright sport in Matas. Is he a future All Star? Who knows... I would love to have a better read on this but out of all the first round picks that have been mostly in the NBA all year he is last in MPG. There are guys drafted in the 20s on better teams getting more MPG. Is this all on Billy? No. AK is apart of this as well. But the fact that almost every rookie playing is getting more minutes then Matas on a Bulls team going no where is just insane. Tristan Da Silva (who some wanted Bulls to take) went 18th to Orlando who has 5 more wins then Chicago, is shooting 31% from 3 is getting 25 MPG. Last night Matas has a good first half and gets what 4 minutes in the 2nd?

[Charlesareed]

This team is a joke losing a ymca team with Trey young out and now losing to Portland omg sale the team Jerry I’m so glad I stopped watching bulls games won’t give me no more headaches the bears are next come December if they don’t have at least 6 wins

[Guru]

Guru may be trolling with his positive outlooks, IDK. But if he is, it is masterful because it is always with an element of truth to it. There are all kinds of people who believe this about Donovan. That he is a great, even legendary, coach. A poster recently told me he expects Donovan to be in the hall of fame. If Donovan is ever put in the hall of fame it will be because of quantity, not quality.

I mean, it was me who made the HOF comment. How many eligible coaches have won two NCAA titles and didn't make the HOF? I would guess the answer to that is zero. That said, maybe I'm wrong. IT seems like active coaches who have his stats are often already in, so maybe he won't get in. He has four final 4s, and everyone else who has that many is already inducted. Ed Jucker and Dan Hurley are the only guys with 2 title wins that aren't in.

That said, as an NBA coach, I've consistently my view on coaches is:
Only a few really move the needle consistently
The next group will have ups/downs more related to the roster and their fit with it
The bad ones sink a team regardless

Billy is in the second of those 3 groups. I think it's probably time to move on from him. He looks like he's lost the team at this point, which is when coaches in that 2nd group have to go.

It's odd because his success was working with young players, and he doesn't seem to do even a decent job with player development.

[Guru]

I don't pay much attention to HOF's as they are usually popularity and title contests not representative of talent. I guess in basketball there is only on coaches HOF for all of high school, College and Pro or something like that? If so, then sure. Put him in the HOF. If it is for the pro level only; no way. He is a horrible coach at the pro level. Likely overrated at the college level also with 4 final four appearances in 20 years at a big name program; but I don't follow college closely enough to claim to have any credibility.

FWIW, my point around Billy and the HOF is that you seem to indicate he's a trash coach. He isn't. All the players who play for him have said otherwise. HE's had a ton of success. He's a fine coach.

There's a wide gap between him and an actual trash coach like Boylen, Boylan, VDN, etc... I don't think Billy is the answer. He's just not high on my list of problems. That said I would not mind/worry if he were replaced.

At times he seems disinterested.

[WindyCityBorn]

He may be a great coach but he's lost the team . We could put one of those flappy inflatable things as coach and probably get a bounce .

But how did he lose the team and why?

[Stratmaster]

I don't pay much attention to HOF's as they are usually popularity and title contests not representative of talent. I guess in basketball there is only on coaches HOF for all of high school, College and Pro or something like that? If so, then sure. Put him in the HOF. If it is for the pro level only; no way. He is a horrible coach at the pro level. Likely overrated at the college level also with 4 final four appearances in 20 years at a big name program; but I don't follow college closely enough to claim to have any credibility.

FWIW, my point around Billy and the HOF is that you seem to indicate he's a trash coach. He isn't. All the players who play for him have said otherwise. HE's had a ton of success. He's a fine coach.

There's a wide gap between him and an actual trash coach like Boylen, Boylan, VDN, etc... I don't think Billy is the answer. He's just not high on my list of problems. That said I would not mind/worry if he were replaced.

At times he seems disinterested.

Are you sure that's not "lost and confused"?

[Stratmaster]

He may be a great coach but he's lost the team . We could put one of those flappy inflatable things as coach and probably get a bounce .

But how did he lose the team and why?

Well, it will be really tough for him to blame Lavine this time. Doesn't mean he won't try.

[dougthonus]

He may be a great coach but he's lost the team . We could put one of those flappy inflatable things as coach and probably get a bounce .

But how did he lose the team and why?

People often have expiration dates in places. It just is how it is, but it's even more true in zero sum games where you haven't experienced success for a long time and have been stagnant.

[DropStep]

It's odd because his success was working with young players, and he doesn't seem to do even a decent job with player development.

I think some of our young players develop, but unfortunately it's usually not our highest draft picks. Javonte came of age here and has stuck. I think Dalen Terry is quietly showing something lately. Julian Phillips looks good sometimes. Ayo, obviously, although he seemed like he had some utility from early on. I have a hunch that maybe it's some of the staff that works with the bench guys and makes them into NBA players, but Billy still should get some credit for some growth at the fringe.

We did also have a most-improved player sometime in the not-too-distant past. And, I think Matas is showing positive signs in his limited minutes, and is better now than his tape from G-league and the beginning of the season. I'm pretty optimistic about him in a not overly optimistic time for the franchise. But the bigger bets haven't really blossomed here historically, Lauri and Pat at the top of the list, which is very frustrating, especially when Lauri blew up elsewhere. If Lauri didn't become an all-star in Utah, more of that blame may be headed toward the GM for his pick, rather than the coach for lack of player development. Coby has also taken a step back this season. I guess it could just be that our more valuable coins have come up tails a few times in a row, but eventually something needs to go right with a big investment, or somebody else will get a chance to try.

[Guru]

FWIW, my point around Billy and the HOF is that you seem to indicate he's a trash coach. He isn't. All the players who play for him have said otherwise. HE's had a ton of success. He's a fine coach.

There's a wide gap between him and an actual trash coach like Boylen, Boylan, VDN, etc... I don't think Billy is the answer. He's just not high on my list of problems. That said I would not mind/worry if he were replaced.

At times he seems disinterested.

Are you sure that's not "lost and confused"?

I don't believe he is incompetent. I think he is either hamstrung by the roster and management or feels hamstrung and is burnt out

[dougthonus]

I think some of our young players develop, but unfortunately it's usually not our highest draft picks. Javonte came of age here and has stuck. I think Dalen Terry is quietly showing something lately. Julian Phillips looks good sometimes. Ayo, obviously, although he seemed like he had some utility from early on. I have a hunch that maybe it's some of the staff that works with the bench guys and makes them into NBA players, but Billy still should get some credit for some growth at the fringe.

We did also have a most-improved player sometime in the not-too-distant past. And, I think Matas is showing positive signs in his limited minutes, and is better now than his tape from G-league and the beginning of the season. I'm pretty optimistic about him in a not overly optimistic time for the franchise. But the bigger bets haven't really blossomed here historically, Lauri and Pat at the top of the list, which is very frustrating, especially when Lauri blew up elsewhere. If Lauri didn't become an all-star in Utah, more of that blame may be headed toward the GM for his pick, rather than the coach for lack of player development. Coby has also taken a step back this season. I guess it could just be that our more valuable coins have come up tails a few times in a row, but eventually something needs to go right with a big investment, or somebody else will get a chance to try.

One thing I would say:

Your head coach is not the primary guy developing players. You have a whole staff of guys who look at people one on one, and to the extent your HC has responsibility for player development is in hiring the right guys to do it.

The other thing is that the players themselves all have their own trainers and workout in the off-season on their own and do most of their own skill development as well. The vast, vast majority of player development is on the player themselves to put the time in combined with their inherent gifts and not some radical difference in super genius coaches that just teach orders of magnitude better than others.

From a head coach position, probably the most a head coach can do is put a guy in rotations with a chance to succeed, and not give them too much too fast and be consistent with what they tell them about how they will earn time and not overly penalize them for mistakes. BD seems to give young players a regular amount of burn and generally doesn't seem to have a quick hook, and seems relatively stable with rotations (injury permitting).