How much time does AK have?

[Wingy]

Being in the Bulls front office is a pope job.

Jerry Krause - 18 years.
John Paxson - 17 years.
Gar Forman - 11 years (although 22 years with the Bulls total).

Karnisovas is in his 5th year with far less success than any of his predecessors. He was given a quiet, unpublicized extension in 2023. As far as I know, the length of that extension have never been revealed. Hopefully, it was just for 2-3 years.

Honestly, if we see more fan-sponsored billboards and some other notable whiffs, he might be out of here in a year or two. If that happens, I wouldn't be surprised to see Donvan take over.

Said it a million times and when the billboard did actually go up.

Gotta go after the ownership.

This fanbase tries its damnedest to avoid the root cause at all times.

[League Circles]

I feel like we're bin nearly the exact position we were in roughly 2005. Decent young pieces, no better than mediocre, etc.

2004-2007 you had a young team that was making the playoffs through the efforts of lottery picks that had upside and might improve (though they largely did not)

2008-2014 or so you had legit hope we were on a championship path. We had the best record in the league two of those years, then had a few more where we hoped Derrick might finally get healthy.

2015-2019 this was a period of mediocrity, though for several of these years we looked to acquire assets rather than win, and you had the hope we might get a star via that process (though we didn't)

2020-2024 short term / win now moves made in an effort to get immediate results while emptying the cupboard, but failing to actually achieve any of the results

Of these four distinct periods, I'd rather be in any of them than the current one by a pretty good margin.

Strange grouping. The period up to 2019 was terrible, nit mediocre. You'd rather be where we were last year than this? Demar, Caruso and Drummond over Giddey, Smith, Matas etc?

I don't see the same threshold inspired difference between just missing the playoffs and just making them that you do. I just call those all mediocre teams.

I don't see Kirk, Deng and BG as having much if any more upside than our current young guys, and the Bulls only had a winning record in 2 of the 5 years preceding the Rose miracle.

[cocktailswith_2short]

Say we get the second pick in the draft . Does anyone have any confidence ak will pick the right guy ? I have zero .

[dougthonus]

Said it a million times and when the billboard did actually go up.

Gotta go after the ownership.

This fanbase tries its damnedest to avoid the root cause at all times.

The only way to fire the owner is to stop consuming the product and make it a financial loser. I'm not even sure if that's really possible in Chicago. The Bulls probably have a floor of profitability by just keeping salary below the luxury tax even if they win 10 games a year.

[dougthonus]

Strange grouping.

What is strange about it? 2004-2007 was the baby bulls
2008-2014 was the Derrick Rose hope
2015-2019 you could maybe split into the jimmy era briefly then the rebuild era, but I had no hope in any of it so clumped it together

The period up to 2019 was terrible, nit mediocre. You'd rather be where we were last year than this? Demar, Caruso and Drummond over Giddey, Smith, Matas etc?

I'd have rather added lottery picks in 21, 22, and 23 to the previous collection of lottery picks we had than experience what we experienced, yes. I would have hope that we'd have eventually hit on one.

I don't see the same threshold inspired difference between just missing the playoffs and just making them that you do. I just call those all mediocre teams.

If you don't think playoffs matter, be my guest. I think you are in an extremely small minority there.

I don't see Kirk, Deng and BG as having much if any more upside than our current young guys, and the Bulls only had a winning record in 2 of the 5 years preceding the Rose miracle.

They were .500 for two of those years and still made the playoffs though. History certainly showed those guys didn't end up having good upside, but at one point, Kirk was shooting 40% from three and a good young two way PG. Gordon was perhaps the most clutch player in the league and a flame thrower, Deng was viewed as a very high end two way guy, and they were all 22 and younger with the chance they might get better.

The end result is that era flamed out, but I felt good about their possibilities for awhile for sure. We did get lucky in getting Rose, but we also got unlucky in that period didn't last long, but that's the point of having many shots in the draft, you eventually get lucky. That's how you win in the end, you get lucky. When we did get lucky, we had enough talent to immediately have the best record in the league two years in a row and were a legit championship contender.

Not many teams do that two years after drafting a superstar prospect, and even then, Rose was only a fringe superstar (probably more like a top 10 guy than a top 1 guy, we didn't get LeBron James or Luka Doncic lucky).

[Jcool0]

Say we get the second pick in the draft . Does anyone have any confidence ak will pick the right guy ? I have zero .

I assume Ace Bailey would be the pick. Scored 20+ points in 7 of last 12 games, 7+ rebounds in 11 of his last 12 games & 2+ blocks in 6 of last 12 games.

[ChettheJet]

I really think he' waiting to be fired at the end of the year. He had the authority to deal at the last 3 deadlines, did nothing, not even a small move for show. If he is still going to be around then he can trade Zach, Vuc, Patrick, Coby or any of the rest instead of sitting it out again. At this point I think if anything could happen he's got to have Reinsdorf and his advisors OK the deal because it affects the next guy.

The things that have sealed his fate, he traded 2 picks for Vuc, he resigned him for more than it seemed anybody else offered. He traded a pick to get DeRozan and that pick is coming up and Demar is gone with no progress. He traded Lauri which is fine but the pick he got back from PORT has turned into a glass all empty. He held onto Caruso allegedly for 2 picks and ended up with Giddey. So mostly he bet the future via the draft for veterans to start winning and not winning.

[Evil_Headband]

Do we have local TV rating numbers this year? Do those matter anymore? They have to be terrible this year. Of course the lack of cable deal is an excuse. Still, just the lack of enthusiasm about the team must be apparent. They will have to do something eventually. I wouldn't be surprised to see a change in the next season or two if things stay on the path they are on.

[League Circles]

Strange grouping.

What is strange about it? 2004-2007 was the baby bulls
2008-2014 was the Derrick Rose hope
2015-2019 you could maybe split into the jimmy era briefly then the rebuild era, but I had no hope in any of it so clumped it together

The period up to 2019 was terrible, nit mediocre. You'd rather be where we were last year than this? Demar, Caruso and Drummond over Giddey, Smith, Matas etc?

I'd have rather added lottery picks in 21, 22, and 23 to the previous collection of lottery picks we had than experience what we experienced, yes. I would have hope that we'd have eventually hit on one.

I don't see the same threshold inspired difference between just missing the playoffs and just making them that you do. I just call those all mediocre teams.

If you don't think playoffs matter, be my guest. I think you are in an extremely small minority there.

I don't see Kirk, Deng and BG as having much if any more upside than our current young guys, and the Bulls only had a winning record in 2 of the 5 years preceding the Rose miracle.

They were .500 for two of those years and still made the playoffs though. History certainly showed those guys didn't end up having good upside, but at one point, Kirk was shooting 40% from three and a good young two way PG. Gordon was perhaps the most clutch player in the league and a flame thrower, Deng was viewed as a very high end two way guy, and they were all 22 and younger with the chance they might get better.

The end result is that era flamed out, but I felt good about their possibilities for awhile for sure. We did get lucky in getting Rose, but we also got unlucky in that period didn't last long, but that's the point of having many shots in the draft, you eventually get lucky. That's how you win in the end, you get lucky. When we did get lucky, we had enough talent to immediately have the best record in the league two years in a row and were a legit championship contender.

Not many teams do that two years after drafting a superstar prospect, and even then, Rose was only a fringe superstar (probably more like a top 10 guy than a top 1 guy, we didn't get LeBron James or Luka Doncic lucky).

I don't believe that you or most other posters fundamentally value "playoffs" in the way you imply here. Cause if we had won play-in games the last few years and "made the playoffs" (but still lost in round one), I'm confident you'd all have the same criticisms that you already do.

Kirk was like 23 when he was drafted lol.

Deng was "very high end" but couldn't sniff a max contract offer?

Bulls in the 5 years preceding the Rose miracle had a winning record twice, 500 once, and losing record twice. Meh.

I think maybe you misspoke when you said 2015-2019 was mediocre (it was trash) and I have a hard time believing that you'd want to go back to last year and still have Demar, Caruso and Drummond over the younger lottery picks we replaced them with.

After we got lucky, we actually gutted the entire roster practically and rebuilt it through FA in order to go from 500 in Rose's first two years to being #1 seed.

I predict guys like Giddey, Coby, Smith, Patrick, Ayo will be more like Kirk and BG than Deng in the end.

[dougthonus]

I don't believe that you or most other posters fundamentally value "playoffs" in the way you imply here. Cause if we had won play-in games the last few years and "made the playoffs" (but still lost in round one), I'm confident you'd all have the same criticisms that you already do.

I'd be happier, but yes, I'd still have the same problem. I said when we traded for Vuc and took this extremely short term thinking approach, that I would view it as a success if we made the 2nd round once and the 1st round the other years of his contract. I don't think that was actually a very reasonable and low bar for a strip the cupboard movement.

Kirk was like 23 when he was drafted lol.

Deng was "very high end" but couldn't sniff a max contract offer?

I mean the era was I felt like that was like 3 years long. They went from worst team in the league for 5 years to 47 wins, then had a 50/50 year, then made the 2nd round. If you didn't find that massive shift from absolute losers, to team that makes the 2nd round built around guys on rookie deals to be more exciting then hey more power to you.

Again, I agree it didn't ultimately go anywhere, but Tyrus, Noah, Kirk, Gordon, Deng, Noc were all young players that I thought could have an impact possibly, we didn't need all of them to bust out to be really good.

I think maybe you misspoke when you said 2015-2019 was mediocre (it was trash) and I have a hard time believing that you'd want to go back to last year and still have Demar, Caruso and Drummond over the younger lottery picks we replaced them with.

I believe I said I would prefer each of those eras. I agree that the team was worse, but they were intentionally worse and accumulating assets. I would have preferred to continue accumulating assets instead of giving up assets to not make the playoffs. We are now positioned worse for what we have done, and if the results had warranted it, fair enough, but they didn't warrant it, and I didn't think they would warrant it at the time we made those decisions.

Again, you may not feel that way. If you highly value the regular season and devalue the playoffs and think 40 wins and no playoffs is the same as 42 wins but playoffs and that 20 wins and no playoffs is actually a way worse experience than 40 wins with no playoffs. To me, 40 wins and no playoffs is the same experience more or less as 20 wins and no playoffs, and when I give up all my high upside assets to get that 40 wins, it is a much worse experience. Those high upside assets may not have ended up giving us anything or maybe they would have given us a superstar. That's the thing with high upside draft assets, you never know.

After we got lucky, we actually gutted the entire roster practically and rebuilt it through FA in order to go from 500 in Rose's first two years to being #1 seed.

Our four best players after Rose on those teams were probably: Deng, Gibson, Noah, and Boozer. 3 of those 4 guys were there prior to Rose and acquired in the draft. We got one major piece in FA (Boozer) and three back end rotation guys (Brewer, Korver, Watson).

I predict guys like Giddey, Coby, Smith, Patrick, Ayo will be more like Kirk and BG than Deng in the end.

Don't disagree with you there.

[Wingy]

Said it a million times and when the billboard did actually go up.

Gotta go after the ownership.

This fanbase tries its damnedest to avoid the root cause at all times.

The only way to fire the owner is to stop consuming the product and make it a financial loser. I'm not even sure if that's really possible in Chicago. The Bulls probably have a floor of profitability by just keeping salary below the luxury tax even if they win 10 games a year.

Often huge ego people, that may also be surprisingly thin-skinned. Going after them means they are more likely to take action sooner with the under-performing underlings, perhaps they might even care a minuscule amount more about the team for a time. Making it about them resonates a lot more than putting the hired help in the cross hairs.

Instead of 10-12 years, maybe an AK only gets 7 when the bosses are constantly raked through the coals.

[dougthonus]

Often huge ego people, that may also be surprisingly thin-skinned. Going after them means they are more likely to take action sooner with the under-performing underlings, perhaps they might even care a minuscule amount more about the team for a time. Making it about them resonates a lot more than putting the hired help in the cross hairs.

Instead of 10-12 years, maybe an AK only gets 7 when the bosses are constantly raked through the coals.

People have been raking GMs over the coals since the Jordan era, hasn't moved much yet. I mean, I feel free to try. Just seems like the only time owners sell is when they get caught up in some social scandal and are forced to or when they simply are tired of doing this thing and want to cash out.

[Wingy]

Often huge ego people, that may also be surprisingly thin-skinned. Going after them means they are more likely to take action sooner with the under-performing underlings, perhaps they might even care a minuscule amount more about the team for a time. Making it about them resonates a lot more than putting the hired help in the cross hairs.

Instead of 10-12 years, maybe an AK only gets 7 when the bosses are constantly raked through the coals.

People have been raking GMs over the coals since the Jordan era, hasn't moved much yet. I mean, I feel free to try. Just seems like the only time owners sell is when they get caught up in some social scandal and are forced to or when they simply are tired of doing this thing and want to cash out.

Selling is my dream as many long timers probably know.

I’m specifically talking about the more realistic goal of shortening the tenure of a boob like AK.

[prolific passer]

All the time in the world with JR in charge.

[dougthonus]

Often huge ego people, that may also be surprisingly thin-skinned. Going after them means they are more likely to take action sooner with the under-performing underlings, perhaps they might even care a minuscule amount more about the team for a time. Making it about them resonates a lot more than putting the hired help in the cross hairs.

Instead of 10-12 years, maybe an AK only gets 7 when the bosses are constantly raked through the coals.

People have been raking GMs over the coals since the Jordan era, hasn't moved much yet. I mean, I feel free to try. Just seems like the only time owners sell is when they get caught up in some social scandal and are forced to or when they simply are tired of doing this thing and want to cash out.

Selling is my dream as many long timers probably know.

I’m specifically talking about the more realistic goal of shortening the tenure of a boob like AK.

Sure, I noted in my post that you have greater odds of this (though still likely low odds). I do kind of wonder as a fly on the wall how much the Bulls ownership cares or pays attention at all to this kind of stuff. I think there is probably a wide gap with how reactive owners might be. We seem to be far on the non-reactive end of the spectrum in terms of considering fan opinions/outrage.

[Ballerkingn23]

As long as he wants. I still think he's handcapped moreso then he admits. Although when he made trades they were terrible. So he's probably gun shy now, I don't mind us losing but we have to pick a lane. Can't keep doing this middle of the pack cr@p. And of all the years to be really bad this is the year to be, so I pray we blow it up some more by the deadline and get into the top 5 of the draft somehow. Bec we need a star desperately and this draft class has a bunch. We just need 1 and then we can truly see if AK has what it takes to build a contender. Otherwise idk how to really judge him and as I said above I expect him to stay as long as he wants.

[Jcool0]

Do we have local TV rating numbers this year? Do those matter anymore? They have to be terrible this year. Of course the lack of cable deal is an excuse. Still, just the lack of enthusiasm about the team must be apparent. They will have to do something eventually. I wouldn't be surprised to see a change in the next season or two if things stay on the path they are on.

No way can they report the numbers. I bet on Comcast they were getting hundreds of thousands per game depending on how good they are. Now it has to be in the 50 thousand range, since its hard to watch. I would be watching a few more games but getting a clear signal is a chore.

[Almost Retired]

Something deep inside me wants to care. But I don't. I have evolved over the years from a kid who used to listen to games on the radio over a transistor radio in the 1970s, then who tried to watch every televised game in the 80s and 90s and who would occasionally luck into tickets. I would check the schedule and make plans to watch the games. Then slowly I began to develop other interest and would only watch games if I was home and had nothing else to do. And we continued to be mediocre. Perhaps I had gotten too spoiled by the success of the Jordan years. Time went on. The games actually started to get boring. By that time I was rarely watching full games, mostly watching highlights, checking the box score, and reading this forum. And more mediocrity followed. Now I check the scores in the morning. I don't even study the box scores any more. I rarely watch any NBA games anymore. Thing started to go south under GarPax. But this current regime of AKME has just killed my love for the team and the game itself. We aren't any good. We aren't interesting. We're going nowhere. There is no plan going forward. Barring a super lucky ping pong ball like we got to draft DRose I see no way this team gets better any time soon. I hate being so pessimistic. But the past 10 years of the team has just beaten the interest out of me. I read the comments here. It's about the closest I am to following the team. I suppose if we lucked into Cooper Flagg my enthusiasm would be rekindled. But that's a long shot. Kudos to all you guys (and gals) who never lost the faith.

[Evil_Headband]

Do we have local TV rating numbers this year? Do those matter anymore? They have to be terrible this year. Of course the lack of cable deal is an excuse. Still, just the lack of enthusiasm about the team must be apparent. They will have to do something eventually. I wouldn't be surprised to see a change in the next season or two if things stay on the path they are on.

No way can they report the numbers. I bet on Comcast they were getting hundreds of thousands per game depending on how good they are. Now it has to be in the 50 thousand range, since its hard to watch. I would be watching a few more games but getting a clear signal is a chore.

Assuming the Blackhawks and White Sox will also have dismal numbers, I wonder how Chicago Sports Network could be economically feasible.

[Jcool0]

Do we have local TV rating numbers this year? Do those matter anymore? They have to be terrible this year. Of course the lack of cable deal is an excuse. Still, just the lack of enthusiasm about the team must be apparent. They will have to do something eventually. I wouldn't be surprised to see a change in the next season or two if things stay on the path they are on.

No way can they report the numbers. I bet on Comcast they were getting hundreds of thousands per game depending on how good they are. Now it has to be in the 50 thousand range, since its hard to watch. I would be watching a few more games but getting a clear signal is a chore.

Assuming the Blackhawks and White Sox will also have dismal numbers, I wonder how Chicago Sports Network could be economically feasible.

It was reported early in the season the Blackhawks rating were down from last year but didnt give a number.