The Tim Connelly Thread (prev./still Fire Him)

[WolfAddict]

Randle isn't here long term. Kat is signed through 2028 at 61 million. Do you not understand the difference?

To be fair though, you're guessing whether Randle is here long term...

I can only go on the information in front of me, and that is Randle was the replacement for KAT - If he gets traded, well that's great, but if not, we're a worse team who won't even sniff a championship

There is also information that the Wolves are active in trade negotiations and trying to move Randle. Naz plays the same position, and did so very well last year after KAT went down. Honestly I think the fan base would be more surprised if Randle wasn’t moved this season, rather than if he was.

Sure but that does not guarantee a trade will happen - Randle is a negative asset, it's going to take a miracle (imo) to get a team to take him and get back anything worth while - Yeah, we might save on some salary, but fans are results driven as a general rule and it seems, to some fans, that this "move" has only been a detriment to the team as it was. (Also after watching today, Randle's value is plummeting right now)

I'm also not saying that KAT shouldn't have been the one to go, he had his problems as a player which most were aware of. But we got fleeced in that trade and took on an absolutely horrendous fit for our team... so we could get DDV, who hasn't exactly moved the needle much either.

[winforlose]

To be fair though, you're guessing whether Randle is here long term...

I can only go on the information in front of me, and that is Randle was the replacement for KAT - If he gets traded, well that's great, but if not, we're a worse team who won't even sniff a championship

There is also information that the Wolves are active in trade negotiations and trying to move Randle. Naz plays the same position, and did so very well last year after KAT went down. Honestly I think the fan base would be more surprised if Randle wasn’t moved this season, rather than if he was.

Sure but that does not guarantee a trade will happen - Randle is a negative asset, it's going to take a miracle (imo) to get a team to take him and get back anything worth while - Yeah, we might save on some salary, but fans are results driven as a general rule and it seems, to some fans, that this "move" has only been a detriment to the team as it was. (Also after watching today, Randle's value is plummeting right now)

I'm also not saying that KAT shouldn't have been the one to go, he had his problems as a player which most were aware of. But we got fleeced in that trade and took on an absolutely horrendous fit for our team... so we could get DDV, who hasn't exactly moved the needle much either.

I strongly disagree that Randle is a negative asset. His 3 point shooting has slumped, but his assisting, his rebounding, and back to the basket scoring have all looked great this year. Neutral is probably the worst case for Randle, and given his history and contract, I think most GMs would argue positive.

Just because Randle is a bad fit here doesn’t means that half a dozen or more teams wouldn’t love to have him. Pistons, Bulls, Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, and Warriors just off the top of my head.

[Klomp]

I strongly disagree that Randle is a negative asset. His 3 point shooting has slumped, but his assisting, his rebounding, and back to the basket scoring have all looked this year. Neutral is probably the worst case for Randle, and given his history and contract, I think most GMs would argue positive.

Just because Randle is a bad fit here doesn’t means that half a dozen or more teams wouldn’t love to have him. Pistons, Bulls, Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, and Warriors just off the top of my head.

I think I agree. I think a lot of fans might be surprised about the kind of return the team might get on the open market, if they ultimately decide to trade him and it's not purely for financial reasons.

[Baseline81]

I strongly disagree that Randle is a negative asset. His 3 point shooting has slumped, but his assisting, his rebounding, and back to the basket scoring have all looked this year. Neutral is probably the worst case for Randle, and given his history and contract, I think most GMs would argue positive.

Just because Randle is a bad fit here doesn’t means that half a dozen or more teams wouldn’t love to have him. Pistons, Bulls, Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, and Warriors just off the top of my head.

Curious, what are thinking the Wolves would get back in a Randle trade?

By the way, you may be correct in saying other teams may value him, however, that doesn't mean Minnesota will get anything of substance in exchange.

[winforlose]

I strongly disagree that Randle is a negative asset. His 3 point shooting has slumped, but his assisting, his rebounding, and back to the basket scoring have all looked this year. Neutral is probably the worst case for Randle, and given his history and contract, I think most GMs would argue positive.

Just because Randle is a bad fit here doesn’t means that half a dozen or more teams wouldn’t love to have him. Pistons, Bulls, Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, and Warriors just off the top of my head.

Curious, what are thinking the Wolves would get back in a Randle trade?

By the way, you may be correct in saying other teams may value him, however, that doesn't mean Minnesota will get anything of substance in exchange.

Depends on who he ends up with, who else is involved in the trade (2 teams, 3 teams, 4, ect…) If it is just Randle for X, probably expirings and a pick. Or a backup C and a pick. If we get more into a deeper deal probably a starting PG and maybe a backup C. Our pick from either Detroit or Utah might get moved with Randle depending on the return.

[WolfAddict]

There is also information that the Wolves are active in trade negotiations and trying to move Randle. Naz plays the same position, and did so very well last year after KAT went down. Honestly I think the fan base would be more surprised if Randle wasn’t moved this season, rather than if he was.

Sure but that does not guarantee a trade will happen - Randle is a negative asset, it's going to take a miracle (imo) to get a team to take him and get back anything worth while - Yeah, we might save on some salary, but fans are results driven as a general rule and it seems, to some fans, that this "move" has only been a detriment to the team as it was. (Also after watching today, Randle's value is plummeting right now)

I'm also not saying that KAT shouldn't have been the one to go, he had his problems as a player which most were aware of. But we got fleeced in that trade and took on an absolutely horrendous fit for our team... so we could get DDV, who hasn't exactly moved the needle much either.

I strongly disagree that Randle is a negative asset. His 3 point shooting has slumped, but his assisting, his rebounding, and back to the basket scoring have all looked this year. Neutral is probably the worst case for Randle, and given his history and contract, I think most GMs would argue positive.

Just because Randle is a bad fit here doesn’t means that half a dozen or more teams wouldn’t love to have him. Pistons, Bulls, Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, and Warriors just off the top of my head.

And I strongly disagree with that - If that were the case, NY would've have had no trouble in moving him without the addition of DDV - It literally took that for us to even listen.

OK, there might be a few teams who would have a look, but what are we getting back? It's going to take a multiple team deal to get it done, and even then I just can't see anything coming back that would help us THIS season. Picks and expirings are cool and all for a team rebuilding, but we've just come off a WCF appearance. We weren't rebuilding (we seem to be, sort of, now).

[Baseline81]

Depends on who he ends up with, who else is involved in the trade (2 teams, 3 teams, 4, ect…) If it is just Randle for X, probably expirings and a pick. Or a backup C and a pick. If we get more into a deeper deal probably a starting PG and maybe a backup C. Our pick from either Detroit or Utah might get moved with Randle depending on the return.

And this is the correct answer. By the way, that would be a second round pick. It's not a negative asset, because those you have to pay to move, but it's about as close to negative as one can get.

[Folklore]

Markkanen could and should have been had instead of Rudy.

UTA didn’t have Markannen when we traded for Rudy.

CLE got Donovan Mitchell for Markannen. Did you want us to trade CLE Ant?

At the time we still had our picks and players.

[BlacJacMac]

Sure but that does not guarantee a trade will happen - Randle is a negative asset, it's going to take a miracle (imo) to get a team to take him and get back anything worth while - Yeah, we might save on some salary, but fans are results driven as a general rule and it seems, to some fans, that this "move" has only been a detriment to the team as it was. (Also after watching today, Randle's value is plummeting right now)

I'm also not saying that KAT shouldn't have been the one to go, he had his problems as a player which most were aware of. But we got fleeced in that trade and took on an absolutely horrendous fit for our team... so we could get DDV, who hasn't exactly moved the needle much either.

I strongly disagree that Randle is a negative asset. His 3 point shooting has slumped, but his assisting, his rebounding, and back to the basket scoring have all looked this year. Neutral is probably the worst case for Randle, and given his history and contract, I think most GMs would argue positive.

Just because Randle is a bad fit here doesn’t means that half a dozen or more teams wouldn’t love to have him. Pistons, Bulls, Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, and Warriors just off the top of my head.

And I strongly disagree with that - If that were the case, NY would've have had no trouble in moving him without the addition of DDV - It literally took that for us to even listen.

OK, there might be a few teams who would have a look, but what are we getting back? It's going to take a multiple team deal to get it done, and even then I just can't see anything coming back that would help us THIS season. Picks and expirings are cool and all for a team rebuilding, but we've just come off a WCF appearance. We weren't rebuilding (we seem to be, sort of, now).

Because they wanted KAT!

[shrink]

Markkanen could and should have been had instead of Rudy.

UTA didn’t have Markannen when we traded for Rudy.

CLE got Donovan Mitchell for Markannen. Did you want us to trade CLE Ant?

At the time we still had our picks and players.

CLE didn’t want our picks in a Markannen trade. They wanted a star player.

[winforlose]

I strongly disagree that Randle is a negative asset. His 3 point shooting has slumped, but his assisting, his rebounding, and back to the basket scoring have all looked this year. Neutral is probably the worst case for Randle, and given his history and contract, I think most GMs would argue positive.

Just because Randle is a bad fit here doesn’t means that half a dozen or more teams wouldn’t love to have him. Pistons, Bulls, Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, and Warriors just off the top of my head.

And I strongly disagree with that - If that were the case, NY would've have had no trouble in moving him without the addition of DDV - It literally took that for us to even listen.

OK, there might be a few teams who would have a look, but what are we getting back? It's going to take a multiple team deal to get it done, and even then I just can't see anything coming back that would help us THIS season. Picks and expirings are cool and all for a team rebuilding, but we've just come off a WCF appearance. We weren't rebuilding (we seem to be, sort of, now).

Because they wanted KAT!

We wanted DDV they wanted KAT. Randle was not a centerpiece because we already had Naz and wanted to start him. My guess is the timing of the trade made it hard to move Randle to a 3rd team, so we took him to move him later. It is also worth noting that fit is an issue in any deal. Just because Randle doesn’t fit here doesn’t mean he cannot fit anywhere.

P.S the money was crazy complicated as well.

[Folklore]

I strongly disagree that Randle is a negative asset. His 3 point shooting has slumped, but his assisting, his rebounding, and back to the basket scoring have all looked this year. Neutral is probably the worst case for Randle, and given his history and contract, I think most GMs would argue positive.

Just because Randle is a bad fit here doesn’t means that half a dozen or more teams wouldn’t love to have him. Pistons, Bulls, Lakers, Clippers, Nuggets, and Warriors just off the top of my head.

And I strongly disagree with that - If that were the case, NY would've have had no trouble in moving him without the addition of DDV - It literally took that for us to even listen.

OK, there might be a few teams who would have a look, but what are we getting back? It's going to take a multiple team deal to get it done, and even then I just can't see anything coming back that would help us THIS season. Picks and expirings are cool and all for a team rebuilding, but we've just come off a WCF appearance. We weren't rebuilding (we seem to be, sort of, now).

Because they wanted KAT!

They wanted Kat so they went ahead and gave us a piece of sht with the cherry on top.

If TC thought Naz could replace Kat why would he bring in another player to take his minutes? same goes for NAW unless he planned on trading him this whole time.


Lets not forget he gave Rudy a Trade Bonus too after he signed his old teammates. TC is an idiot

[winforlose]

And I strongly disagree with that - If that were the case, NY would've have had no trouble in moving him without the addition of DDV - It literally took that for us to even listen.

OK, there might be a few teams who would have a look, but what are we getting back? It's going to take a multiple team deal to get it done, and even then I just can't see anything coming back that would help us THIS season. Picks and expirings are cool and all for a team rebuilding, but we've just come off a WCF appearance. We weren't rebuilding (we seem to be, sort of, now).

Because they wanted KAT!

They wanted Kat so they went ahead and gave us a piece of sht with the cherry on top.

If TC thought Naz could replace Kat why would he bring in another player to take his minutes? same goes for NAW unless he planned on trading him this whole time.


Lets not forget he gave Rudy a Trade Bonus too after he signed his old teammates. TC is an idiot

1. What trade bonus, am I missing something?

2. The trade happened at an irregular time. Finding a 3rd team for Randle would be very difficult. Finch vouched for Randle and we decided to keep him till the deadline. But Naz is getting more and more run end of game, and is soon going to usurp Randle whether or not he is traded. Also the money was very tricky and probably required Randle or else a lot of random players and pieces resulting in a lot of dead money and weird fits for us.

3. Again, the trade was for DDV. We wouldn’t give them Karl unless they gave us DDV. DDV is a top value contract, and his improved play has had big benefits for us. His injury is devastating. The first from Detroit was also part of the value balancing. I expect that unlike RealGM where fans are biased, GMs will want to make there teams better and be willing to do so with Randle. The real question is the money given the 2nd apron, and the timing. Randle could move as part of a Lavine, BI, Beal, Jimmy, deal. It probably won’t happen until February and probably not until the 5th or 6th.

[WolfAddict]

Because they wanted KAT!

They wanted Kat so they went ahead and gave us a piece of sht with the cherry on top.

If TC thought Naz could replace Kat why would he bring in another player to take his minutes? same goes for NAW unless he planned on trading him this whole time.


Lets not forget he gave Rudy a Trade Bonus too after he signed his old teammates. TC is an idiot

1. What trade bonus, am I missing something?

2. The trade happened at an irregular time. Finding a 3rd team for Randle would be very difficult. Finch vouched for Randle and we decided to keep him till the deadline. But Naz is getting more and more run end of game, and is soon going to usurp Randle whether or not he is traded. Also the money was very tricky and probably required Randle or else a lot of random players and pieces resulting in a lot of dead money and weird fits for us.

3. Again, the trade was for DDV. We wouldn’t give them Karl unless they gave us DDV. DDV is a top value contract, and his improved play has had big benefits for us. His injury is devastating. The first from Detroit was also part of the value balancing. I expect that unlike RealGM where fans are biased, GMs will want to make there teams better and be willing to do so with Randle. The real question is the money given the 2nd apron, and the timing. Randle could move as part of a Lavine, BI, Beal, Jimmy, deal. It probably won’t happen until February and probably not until the 5th or 6th.

There seems to be a lot of mental gymnastics in order to explain how this trade was a good one (it wasn't) - If it was a poor/irregular time to do the trade, why do it? It has negatively impacted the team (in the sense of winning games), so it was a bad trade, and even more so if it was done knowing the timing was terrible - If the plan was factor Naz into the starting lineup, well that's failed as well because Randle isn't coming off the bench, Naz is. Soon to usurp Randle? That's some imaginative thinking, and I cannot see Randle and his ego handle that at all. Naz won't start over Randle if Randle is playing.

DDV has NOT moved the needle much and has NOT given us the production we thought we'd get - He WAS getting better but now we won't really know given the injury. And picks...? We weren't rebuilding, so we didn't need the picks to be able to become competitive, we already were - It really is as if we gave up on this season literally as a money saving exercise (and as I said, as a fan who watched the amazing play last season, that sucks).

You can't really blame the fans that are not happy right now - We've come off one of our most successful seasons ever, and it's been undone with one trade - It KILLED the chemistry we had and it's severely hampered where we can go as a team now.

[winforlose]

They wanted Kat so they went ahead and gave us a piece of sht with the cherry on top.

If TC thought Naz could replace Kat why would he bring in another player to take his minutes? same goes for NAW unless he planned on trading him this whole time.


Lets not forget he gave Rudy a Trade Bonus too after he signed his old teammates. TC is an idiot

1. What trade bonus, am I missing something?

2. The trade happened at an irregular time. Finding a 3rd team for Randle would be very difficult. Finch vouched for Randle and we decided to keep him till the deadline. But Naz is getting more and more run end of game, and is soon going to usurp Randle whether or not he is traded. Also the money was very tricky and probably required Randle or else a lot of random players and pieces resulting in a lot of dead money and weird fits for us.

3. Again, the trade was for DDV. We wouldn’t give them Karl unless they gave us DDV. DDV is a top value contract, and his improved play has had big benefits for us. His injury is devastating. The first from Detroit was also part of the value balancing. I expect that unlike RealGM where fans are biased, GMs will want to make there teams better and be willing to do so with Randle. The real question is the money given the 2nd apron, and the timing. Randle could move as part of a Lavine, BI, Beal, Jimmy, deal. It probably won’t happen until February and probably not until the 5th or 6th.

There seems to be a lot of mental gymnastics in order to explain how this trade was a good one (it wasn't) - If it was a poor/irregular time to do the trade, why do it? It has negatively impacted the team (in the sense of winning games), so it was a bad trade, and even more so if it was done knowing the timing was terrible - If the plan was factor Naz into the starting lineup, well that's failed as well because Randle isn't coming off the bench, Naz is. Soon to usurp Randle? That's some imaginative thinking, and I cannot see Randle and his ego handle that at all. Naz won't start over Randle if Randle is playing.

DDV has NOT moved the needle much and has NOT given us the production we thought we'd get - He WAS getting better but now we won't really know given the injury. And picks...? We weren't rebuilding, so we didn't need the picks to be able to become competitive, we already were - It really is as if we gave up on this season literally as a money saving exercise (and as I said, as a fan who watched the amazing play last season, that sucks).

You can't really blame the fans that are not happy right now - We've come off one of our most successful seasons ever, and it's been undone with one trade - It KILLED the chemistry we had and it's severely hampered where we can go as a team now.

I have been hugely critical of the trade, I do not believe we good value for KAT at all. DDV playing as well as he was before the injury is the player we wanted to acquire. That said, his size and position are less valuable for us than Karl. But, I do believe TC wanted to move on from Karl because of his injury history. I find it ironic that DDV is hurt and Karl is not, but so be it. Moving Randle is now the priority.

[shrink]

. But, I do believe TC wanted to move on from Karl because of his injury history. I find it ironic that DDV is hurt and Karl is not, but so be it.

I agree. Also, Karl had missed the last two games with a sprained thumb and he still has a bone chip, but he came back today.

Maybe too early. I checked today’s box score and he was 5-for-18.

[WolfAddict]

Even KAT underdone would've made a difference today - 5/18 with 13pts is a lot better than 2/13 with 5 points.

[Klomp]

I think the biggest fault of Connelly and Finch is the trying to thread the needle between staying competitive and building up your development pieces and other assets. It's a tough needle to thread, and there have probably been more "misses" than people expected.

Fans are thirsty for wins, especially after last year's WCF run. Fans are excited about the future of the young guys. But it's not always a direct line from Point A to Point B.

[WolfAddict]

I think the biggest fault of Connelly and Finch is the trying to thread the needle between staying competitive and building up your development pieces and other assets. It's a tough needle to thread, and there have probably been more "misses" than people expected.

Fans are thirsty for wins, especially after last year's WCF run. Fans are excited about the future of the young guys. But it's not always a direct line from Point A to Point B.

100% I do not envy the job.

I understand that train of thought, however, the FO seems to have gone to Point W,X,Y and Z just to get to D instead of B.

[winforlose]

I think the biggest fault of Connelly and Finch is the trying to thread the needle between staying competitive and building up your development pieces and other assets. It's a tough needle to thread, and there have probably been more "misses" than people expected.

Fans are thirsty for wins, especially after last year's WCF run. Fans are excited about the future of the young guys. But it's not always a direct line from Point A to Point B.

I think it is more complicated than that. We don’t own our picks basically for the next 7 years. 2028 is the only year we don’t owe a pick or swap. Tanking is not gonna be a realistic option for us, no matter who gets hurt or how glum things look. Add to that the fact that we are a 2nd apron team, and the second apron has pretty stiff penalties for being there multiple years in a 4 year span. We need this season to work. Finch and TC don’t seem to have that urgency. If they did Karl would have moved at the deadline instead of before camp. Randle would have ended up somewhere else, and we would have had a balanced roster. Finch would have followed his blueprint of giving the returning 7 their original roles, and a combo of Dilly, Minott, and Shannon would have filled 8-10. That is how it was supposed to work. Instead, we mucked it up (mucked can be switched to a different rhyming word in your heads,) and now we have an unbalanced in some cases paper thin train wreck in the making. This isn’t what well run looks like. This is what poorly run looks like.