dice wrote:???
they watch every play. you don't. neither do a lot of pro bowl voters (which includes fans and players at other positions). so why does your opinion count for anything and the unbiased gold standard doesn't?
every team, including the ever-astute eagles, pays for PFF data. are they suckers?
I think they mean a hell of a lot less than you do, PFF grades I see for guys I do watch every play of very frequently do not match my opinion of the players.
Carter just won a playoff game for his team
contributed significantly, certainly. but i'm not gonna ignore the 200+ yards and 2 TDs of saquon barkley. nor the turnover-free game management of hurts (in the snow)
Totally fair, but he was a huge impact on them all season long and was critical in their playoff win. He's been huge for them. Wright hasn't been huge for us. Maybe he's serviceable, but Carter has been better than his PFF grade.
oh, so now we're trusting the opinions of fanbases over professional evaluators. why even hire a GM? just take a thonus poll!
The Eagles are my 2nd team because my dad lives in PA, so I spent summers there growing up, my brother still lives there, and we talk about them a lot. In an era where the Bears are terrible and the Eagles are good, they're my team. So I've seen quite a fair amount of Eagles this year, certainly not every play, but enough to feel good about saying Carter is a hell of a lot better than Wright.
He made the pro bowl so was also viewed as an incredibly important player by the league as a whole. Wright is nothing like that for us, not even close.
different. positions.
multiple. players. acquired.
there are pro bowlers who not only don't deserve to be but are also not viewed as "incredibly important"
Okay?
Jalen Carter plays an important position at an elite level, the other guy involved was a punter in the trade, and a fourth rounder projects into a bench player so yeah, I'll take Carter over Wright and a bench player (even if we assume we'd have used the pick differently).
jalen carter by all accounts played better last year w/ less snaps.
Not by all accounts, by PFF grades. That is not the account of Philly fans or probowl voters. Which hence, get back to my point that I don't view PFF grades as the holy bible like you do.
what a stupefying take. first of all, my example was entirely sensical (and intentionally very basic such that that should have been clear to all). secondly, when drafting a player you are MAKING A BET (see the analogy now?). finally, 'hypothetical' inherently involves making up things. you seriously didn't know that? good god
Your example was random numbers you made up based on nothing. Jalen Carter was viewed as a generational talent. The "upside" for him would be way higher than the upside on wright. The downside on either guy is 0 (non contributor).
the point of the hypothetical, which seems to have gone over your head, was that being on the correct end of a decision in retrospect does not make the decision in the moment a good one. THUS, jumping up and down and waving your hands when jalen carter has a good game to say "see, see, he IS really that good" misses the point. the likelihood was ALWAYS going to be that he was the real deal and would not get into major trouble off the field
Okay? I'm not sure what your point is here. So the hypothetical is the likelihood that Jalen Carter was always going to be better than Wright? Sure. I agree. So what are we talking about?
generationally talented? yeah, another swing and whiff. amazing how people view generations as a few years these days
again, carter is not close to chris jones. not yet. he is not close to aaron donald
He may not ever be a guy who becomes generationally in the NFL, but people viewed him in that light from a talent perspective. There was a reason he had a lot of #1 pick in the draft grades in his draft from a talent perspective.
nope, not much better. surprised? i guess you would be given that you seem to be hanging out on eagles message boards
Agree to disagree. I watch a ton of both guys, didn't base my opinion on a websites opinion.
nobody expected darnell wright to be better. that was not the point of the trade and you know that. it was a 2 for 1. yet people continue to intentionally ignore that fact (the definition of ignorant) to defend their position
The other end of that 2 for 1 was a guy who projects into non-starter, and the reality is we took a punter. Yes, I will take a Probowl DT over a punter and a pedestrian OT.
every team passed on trading up for him, derp. at #5. and again at #6. and again at #7. and again at #8. INCLUDING the eagles. because they didn't value jalen carter enough to offer enough to the teams at those positions. despite his "generational talent"
Trading up for someone is a lot different than passing on him and you know it. That's a ridiculous argument.
your argument, piss-poor from jump street, continues to devolve
Look in the mirror big guy. Your argument is PFF grades, a hypothetical bet based on numbers you made up in your head that makes no sense, and a 2 for 1 where the 2nd end of it is a fricken punter that most teams never waste draft capital on anyway, and I suspect if you went to a serious neutral NFL forum and asked if you'd rather have Wright + Taylor or Carter that it would be a landslide for Carter.
utilizing logic is not insane
The two teams traded. The team that trades for a guy and gives something up, obviously likes him more than the team that trades him away. That is what logic is in this scenario.
or...they would have drafted him if only offered a 5th
Maybe, but you'd be dumb if you think the guy at #9 is much better than the guy at #10 and you give him up for a 4th. That's just not much value unless you think the the gap in value is meaningless already which I did not (And many others didn't). Those that viewed Carter as _much_ more talented would think this is a poor trade (as I do), and that opinion, to me feels valid today that Carter is much more talented.
many of these decisions come down to the margins. to pretend to know what is in ryan poles's head at any given moment is what's insane
And that's what you are doing. You are assuming the Bears liked Carter even though they traded out of the ability to take him as much as a team that traded into the ability to take him. There is no reason to think the Bears would take Carter at #10 if he were there or anywhere else.
My opinion on Poles liking of Carter is based on his actions, giving up the ability to take him for barely anything. Your opinion on us probably liking him the same is based on literally nothing whatsoever except what you have decided is true in your head.
and you have unreported knowledge that another team or teams were attempting to trade up w/ the bears? otherwise, why would philly even make a trade? just let him drop another spot. as he did from 5 to 6. and 6 to 7. and 7 to 8. and 8 to 9? suddenly there was significant trade interest when it got to the bears' spot?
What are you talking about? The ONLY reason Philly trades up is because they are scared a different team trades up to the Bears because they know the Bears aren't interested.
so no, they they obviously didn't know the bears didn't want carter. no more than they knew teams 5-8 didn't want carter. you say the bears were stupid. the eagles knew the bears were stupid? so they waited until he got down to #9? because they knew they could get him even though he was strongly devalued by that point? that's ridiculous
I wasn't in the negotiating room, but frequently in this scenario, the team trading up guarantees they won't take the guy the trading down team wants. That is my view on how that typically works.
or...we got an offer good enough to move us off him. c'mon. this isn't a hard scenario to imagine playing out. not every team that likes a player drafts him. sometimes another team comes along that likes him more. and trading a valuable mid-round pick to move up 1 spot means they like him a whole lot
A 4th isn't a good enough amount of value to come off a guy we liked.
jaysus. sentence 1 contradicts sentence 2. now you know that another team didn't offer a 5th? despite the "big risk" of exactly that happening? the great pretender
I have literally no idea what you're talking about. Maybe another team would offer anything. Philly traded up to stop a different team from trading up.
and you still don't have an answer as to why the hell the eagles weren't willing to offer what it took to get him at a higher spot if they SO valued him
Who knows, maybe they felt there was a big drop off at #10 and really liked two guys at #8. What I know is they liked him enough to go get him and the Bears didn't.
anyway, i'm done w/ the conversation as it is clearly being argued either in bad faith or devoid of logic
Again, mirror.
But fair enough, I agree we will not agree on this.
