Eye of the Tiger: The Tidjane Salaun Thread

[fatlever]

The silver lining from his G League performance yesterday was from what I've read in the first 3 qs he played pretty good defense. He was able to Rack up 9 rebounds four assists and 4 steals.
It's possible there's something there to build on. I'm just not confident that we'll see it next season. Maybe his third season at the earliest he'll show that he can be a quality rotational player. It's not like this is a guy who picked up the basketball three years ago and is just learning how to play. I mean this dude has been at high level French basketball academies since he was a kid. His sister plays on the French national team. Has lived basketball for a long time and still has such a Lack of actual basketball skills.

[JMAC3]

I think both things can be true And people need to stop looking at this in black or white, right or wrong...
You can clearly look at this draft and see that it's shaping up to be a bit of a minefield in terms of finding a good player. And so I don't necessarily fault the front office for taking a swing on a guy with his size at his age with what appears to be at least the mechanics of a good three point shot.
But I think it's also fair to look at what we've seen so far from him and be incredibly discouraged and admit that it's hard to see When and how he becomes a functional rotational player. You have to squint really hard to see the positives so far.

Grading out the 2nd best rookie in the league in Def EPM. He is 13th in rookies in mins played so the sample size is big enough. This is constantly ignored because it doesn't fit the pitchfork mindset around here where everything about him has to be negative.

The numbers are there without squinting that he is a good defender as a 19 yr old rookie.

[fatlever]

I think both things can be true And people need to stop looking at this in black or white, right or wrong...
You can clearly look at this draft and see that it's shaping up to be a bit of a minefield in terms of finding a good player. And so I don't necessarily fault the front office for taking a swing on a guy with his size at his age with what appears to be at least the mechanics of a good three point shot.
But I think it's also fair to look at what we've seen so far from him and be incredibly discouraged and admit that it's hard to see When and how he becomes a functional rotational player. You have to squint really hard to see the positives so far.

Grading out the 2nd best rookie in the league in Def EPM. He is 13th in rookies in mins played so the sample size is big enough. This is constantly ignored because it doesn't fit the pitchfork mindset around here where everything about him has to be negative.

The numbers are there without squinting that he is a good defender as a 19 yr old rookie.

and offensively he's what in epm... 2%?

Yeah I think it's fair to say that he is at this point a decent defender and there is some hope that that's at least his floor. But offensively it's a disaster. We're talking worse offensively than mkg ever was. mkg could I at least dribble with his right hand and finish in traffic. He's young, offense takes time. Learning how to shoot at an NBA 3 point line takes time. The mechanics on his shot seemed to be decent enough. So maybe In a few years we're talking about a power forward version of Josh Green?
This is not a guy who's just miraculously going to learn how to dribble, pass, Develop a touch around the rim.

[JustBuzzin]

I got the eye of a tiger and you're gonna hear me roar!

[JMAC3]

I think both things can be true And people need to stop looking at this in black or white, right or wrong...
You can clearly look at this draft and see that it's shaping up to be a bit of a minefield in terms of finding a good player. And so I don't necessarily fault the front office for taking a swing on a guy with his size at his age with what appears to be at least the mechanics of a good three point shot.
But I think it's also fair to look at what we've seen so far from him and be incredibly discouraged and admit that it's hard to see When and how he becomes a functional rotational player. You have to squint really hard to see the positives so far.

Grading out the 2nd best rookie in the league in Def EPM. He is 13th in rookies in mins played so the sample size is big enough. This is constantly ignored because it doesn't fit the pitchfork mindset around here where everything about him has to be negative.

The numbers are there without squinting that he is a good defender as a 19 yr old rookie.

and offensively he's what in epm... 2%?

Yeah I think it's fair to say that he is at this point a decent defender and there is some hope that that's at least his floor. But offensively it's a disaster. We're talking worse offensively than mkg ever was. mkg could I at least dribble with his right hand and finish in traffic. He's young, offense takes time. Learning how to shoot at an NBA 3 point line takes time. The mechanics on his shot seemed to be decent enough. So maybe In a few years we're talking about a power forward version of Josh Green?
This is not a guy who's just miraculously going to learn how to dribble, pass, Develop a touch around the rim.

Cool, nobody said he is a complete player on both ends of the floor at 19 yrs old.

This is just the tenteenth time that this board doesn't understand player expectations. We as a community suck at it. We sucked at it with Nick Smith Jr not being good right away as the 27th pick. We are sucked at it with Oubre, with Richards, with PJ Washington etc etc etc... Salaun was the 6th pick in what was labeled from day 1 as the worst draft of a decade. People tried to fight it and say it was fine, but it is what it is.

Most years Salaun is probably going 11-15 as a high upside guy, he was overdrafted. Just like pretty much everyone. Risacher should not have went top 5, Reed Sheppard shouldn't have gone top 10 in most drafts and he went 3rd. Zach Edey at age 22 went top 10, that shouldn't be happening based on a normal draft.

Hilarious half the board is ready to trade this guy for 1 2nd round pick because he struggled his first 40 games. That is the truth, people would be dumb enough to just give him away even though teams picking in the top 10 also worked him out and were rumored to like him, but hey we have seen enough as the Hornets, he must just suck 30 games into his career and it will be miracle if he ever is any good.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Funny timing to be throwing shade at Reed Sheppard. He just dropped 49 in his recently started G League assignment and is averaging 30/4/8 in his first 3 games.

You'd be jizzing yourself if Salaun averaged half that. (Not a Salaun hater for context)

[CuseMayne]

That settles it, Cavs should trade for Salaün and upgrade their 15th roster spot if they're serious about getting past the Celtics.

If Thor can't pass nor steal in a Gleague game, he doesn't deserve to be an end-of-bench guy like Salaün does.

4 assists. Wow. That's amazing. I guess I was wrong about Salaün.

His career is obviously heading in a completely different direction than Thor.

No comparison.

Case closed.

Very cringe. Chill.

[Bassman]

We also understand that G League competition is marginal. This crop of rookies, despite their struggles, should produce some eye popping numbers at that level. Reed Sheppard’s 49 may still be an outlier but you get the point. NSJ had some monster games there; more importantly his more recent stent helped him better refine his game. Salaun’s production was ok, not great, and just demonstrates how much he needs to stay there and really work on things.

[JDR720]

The main thing I want from him is to do the little things that don't even show in the boxscore. Moving off ball, help defense, setting good screens. If he can do that and shoot 3's well enough to not be a liability on offense, he can basically be Grant Williams or Marvin Williams or somebody like that.

[JMAC3]

Funny timing to be throwing shade at Reed Sheppard. He just dropped 49 in his recently started G League assignment and is averaging 30/4/8 in his first 3 games.

You'd be jizzing yourself if Salaun averaged half that. (Not a Salaun hater for context)

I do not care about the GLeague at all, the stats don't matter. There are guys dropping 40+ every week down there that will never play again the NBA because teams don't care if you can score on a bunch of dudes giving 35% effort with no gameplan other than how many points you can score.

Kevin Knox had 39 pts this week, Bouknight and McGowens are scoring 30 balls.

Would it be cool if Tidjane scored 50? sure, but 95% of what happens in the Gleague doesn't matter nor translate to the NBA. Otherwise guys like JD Davison, Jahlil Okafor and Mac McClung would be in the NBA by now.

[MasterIchiro]

We also understand that G League competition is marginal. This crop of rookies, despite their struggles, should produce some eye popping numbers at that level. Reed Sheppard’s 49 may still be an outlier but you get the point. NSJ had some monster games there; more importantly his more recent stent helped him better refine his game. Salaun’s production was ok, not great, and just demonstrates how much he needs to stay there and really work on things.

But Thor was just as sucky as Salaün, so we're cool. I mean, our last raw prospect before Salaün other than Thor was Kai Jones. Even Kai had games where he beasted. Hopefully we start seeing at least some games where Salaün dominates there and we don't have to resort to celebrating that Tidjane had more assists and steals than Thor ever had.

I'm rooting for him.

[yosemiteben]

Hopefully we start seeing at least some games where Salaün dominates there and we don't have to resort to celebrating that Tidjane had more assists and steals than Thor ever had.

For whatever it's worth, I didn't bring up Thor and I'm not "celebrating" anything about a comparison to Thor. I'm just pointing out that it's a bad comparison because Thor never produced a stat line like Salaun did. I'm not saying that anyone has to be happy with anything about Salaun or his performance to date and I'm kind of **** tired of you framing it like I'm some Salaun fanboy.

[Rich4114]

I think fatlever said it best. This isn't black and white. Defensively, Salaun has shown promise. He has size, seems to have drive + effort - those are good things. We're talking about overall basketball skill + athleticism indicators here. It's not that he hasn't shown enough and we're impatient. It's that when the dude begins to dribble the ball it is a turnover waiting to happen or he's tossing up a shot off balance without looking at the rim. Have to imagine (and hope) those things will improve over time with a lot of work, but the natural abilities outside of spot up 3pt shooting (which is... under league average at best) does not offer promise. Not rooting against the guy and I of course hope I'm wrong and he develops into a player that can help us. But please be willing to accept that his offensive skills show very little to be excited about even in the future given his vertical is terrible for his size and he demonstrates zero skill with the ball. He has had exactly one good move I can remember in all the mins he played where he completed his motion all the way to the rim for a layup. That's a very tiny % of his overall opportunities.

Maybe he can develop into the type of player Jaden McDaniels is for example, but he still doesn't have the athleticism a player like that has (just the size) so ehhh. McDaniels was a late first round pick in a much better draft too.

For a franchise that has been so devoid of talent and one that has burned draft capital not on trades but on COMPLETELY WHIFFING on multiple lottery / high 1st draft picks over the past several seasons... you are taking a massive risk using the 6th overall pick in any draft on a player this raw. Especially when you likely could've just got him in the second round anyway.

[MPM]

Especially when you likely could've just got him in the second round anyway.

Assuming you mean a player like him. Salaun wasn't making it out of the lottery.

[MasterIchiro]

Hopefully we start seeing at least some games where Salaün dominates there and we don't have to resort to celebrating that Tidjane had more assists and steals than Thor ever had.

For whatever it's worth, I didn't bring up Thor and I'm not "celebrating" anything about a comparison to Thor. I'm just pointing out that it's a bad comparison because Thor never produced a stat line like Salaun did. I'm not saying that anyone has to be happy with anything about Salaun or his performance to date and I'm kind of **** tired of you framing it like I'm some Salaun fanboy.

I'm rooting for Salaün as I stated.

So anyone who roots for him doesn't require them to be a "fanboy". I certainly am not, yet I'm rooting for him.

[Rich4114]

Especially when you likely could've just got him in the second round anyway.

Assuming you mean a player like him. Salaun wasn't making it out of the lottery.

What team was going to take him in the lottery? He wasn't connected to any other team besides the Spurs who apparently always intended to move their second pick.

[JMAC3]

Especially when you likely could've just got him in the second round anyway.

Assuming you mean a player like him. Salaun wasn't making it out of the lottery.

What team was going to take him in the lottery? He wasn't connected to any other team besides the Spurs who apparently always intended to move their second pick.

Lol. He worked out for or was linked to the Jazz, Spurs, Thunder, Blazers, Sacramento, Detroit... all had picks in the top 12.

Claiming he would have went in the 2nd round is laughably bad take.

[MasterIchiro]

I think fatlever said it best. This isn't black and white. Defensively, Salaun has shown promise. He has size, seems to have drive + effort - those are good things. We're talking about overall basketball skill + athleticism indicators here. It's not that he hasn't shown enough and we're impatient. It's that when the dude begins to dribble the ball it is a turnover waiting to happen or he's tossing up a shot off balance without looking at the rim. Have to imagine (and hope) those things will improve over time with a lot of work, but the natural abilities outside of spot up 3pt shooting (which is... under league average at best) does not offer promise. Not rooting against the guy and I of course hope I'm wrong and he develops into a player that can help us. But please be willing to accept that his offensive skills show very little to be excited about even in the future given his vertical is terrible for his size and he demonstrates zero skill with the ball. He has had exactly one good move I can remember in all the mins he played where he completed his motion all the way to the rim for a layup. That's a very tiny % of his overall opportunities.

Maybe he can develop into the type of player Jaden McDaniels is for example, but he still doesn't have the athleticism a player like that has (just the size) so ehhh. McDaniels was a late first round pick in a much better draft too.

For a franchise that has been so devoid of talent and one that has burned draft capital not on trades but on COMPLETELY WHIFFING on multiple lottery / high 1st draft picks over the past several seasons... you are taking a massive risk using the 6th overall pick in any draft on a player this raw. Especially when you likely could've just got him in the second round anyway.

I think it's asking too much for a new GM to punt in his first draft instead of believing in the upside of opportunity the draft presents, and the cost control value of rookie scale contracts to small market teams drafting higher in the draft.

Throughout the extended LaMelo-centric rebuild Hornets only traded out of the lottery once (Duren 13 for what turned out to be pick 27 NSJ) when they had 15 just outside the lottery (turned out to be Mark Williams who is cheaper and looks better than Duren). The Hornets traded back into the draft after Bouknight fell to them in the lottery. Again, no net loss of 1st round rookie scale contracts that help control budgets for the teams operating with severe limitations such as not using the full non-tax MLE when it's been available multiple times.

However, this was a bad draft known to all the GM's. Two lottery teams traded out of the lottery - Spurs 8 and Blazers 14.

I really wish Peterson walked in with greater skepticism of the value of those lottery spots and considered trading out (instead of up for Reed). True, the 2 rebuild teams that traded out of the lottery had multiple lottery picks.

But right now I'd much rather have Deni Avdija than pick 6. Even if for the lone fact Deni has more trade value today (and fits the LaMelo rebuild) than Salaün. If we were to offer Portland Salaün for Deni they'd laugh us off the phone. So at best we have a short term value loss after banking on a known bad draft. We walked the minefield so who cares if other teams lost their legs. Doesn't make it the optimal approach when you're also walking around on stumps.

I don't blame Peterson for feeling enthusiastic about Salaün's combo of NBA plus size/length, plus motor and range potential. Looks like Castle, Ware, McCain and the Memphis pick look like the only potential above average starters.

Deni was already one.

I hate this current draft outside the top 4. Absolutely, hate it. So many minefields. But I don't think for a second Peterson will trade out if the Hornets settle at 8 or 9 after the lottery drawing.

It would put a damper on the fanbase having suffered another round of losses and agony for no great reward.

[MPM]

Especially when you likely could've just got him in the second round anyway.

Assuming you mean a player like him. Salaun wasn't making it out of the lottery.

What team was going to take him in the lottery? He wasn't connected to any other team besides the Spurs who apparently always intended to move their second pick.

NBA consensus had 5 mocks with him at 8. Ringer had him at 7. BR had him at 12. SI at 11. But, sure, whatever floats the revisionist boat.

[amcoolio]

I was laughed at on this board for wanting Deni for the pick. This entire board would trade Salaun for Deni without second thought

JMAC, for the eleventeenth time, it doesn't matter than the other rookies also suck. The reality is we sucked again this offseason to add any talent or improve this team. You have to make the most of the assets you have. We squandered assets. So yes, Peterson deserves blame here.

Here we are again, hoping to do well in the next draft. Can you tell me any reason we shouldn't also just start preparing for the 2026 draft as well?