Free Agent, (Trade), Buyout, Extension & Conversion Thread, 2025

[djFan71]

That's almost - ALMOST - a reason to root for them to win a few games.

They are basically two games out of the play in and two games out of the top six. One of the more wild protected pick races I can remember there.

At this point I’d rather Philly just keep it.

It’s probably my desired outcome that Philly sneaks into the 8th seed and sends OKC a 15th pick. I’d hate to see Cooper Flagg end up on Joel Embiid’s team, should Philly luck out and win the #1 pick.

I think the whole Philly experience starting at the bubble, paying a first and second to dump Horford, Ben Simmons playoff meltdown and holdout, trading for James Harden, James Hardens playoff fizzle and holdout, extending an injured Embiid, and then signing Paul George to a max, Daryl Morey has lost all his aura.

I think when Philly inevitably fires Daryl, he’ll go work in media or be a consultant but probably not POBO for another team after the total mess of his five years in Philly…

Exactly, I want PHI to keep it at 15 and face CLE in the first round. If somehow everyone on PHI is healthy and they're playing well - congrats CLE on your #1 seed. If not, at least OKC and PHI don't get a good pick.

[Fierce1]

At this point, there's no sign Embiid can get healthy.

He's just not right, health-wise.

I think it will be a top 10 pick going to OKC.

[cl2117]

I like the creativity. First, I don’t dig the Horford part of it. Horfords value against a Giannis, Jokic or Cleveland’s frontline playoff series is too great to include him, IMO, and as a $10 million expiring, there’s no future financial reason to lose his oncourt positives. Plus Al is too important to the locker room, so I don’t like that part of it.

Jrue to Lakers is an interesting idea because he does seem to fit with their goals and timeline and they wouldn’t have to give up firsts to add him. I’m not a huge Rui guy, he’s fine but I’m more in the category of shooting so many 3PTA introduces too much variance that’s more likely to cause us to get bounced if we go cold and shoot 31% over six or seven games, rather that we should lean more into 3PT offense… But the financial relief would be very helpful for the overall economics of the team, and Rui is a rotation forward in the league and much younger obviously. You’d have to consider it from that perspective…

It’s funny I was listening to the NBA front office YouTube show with Keith Smith a few weeks ago and they went through trades between the teams in Celtics-Lakers history. There were only three trades ever between the rivals. One was in the 70s and before my time. In the late 90s Pitino traded Travis Knight straight up for Tony Battie, and then in 04, Danny acquired Gary Payton and a first for Chris Mimh, Chucky Atkins and Jumaine Jones… so it’s literally been 20 years since a trade between BOS and LAL …

Oh… and as to the Walker Kessler part of it, I don’t think his value is Queta plus two firsts. Kessler is gonna need an extension after next season and then we could be almost back to where we were moneywise with just keeping Jrue. I think there are some interesting big men in the later first round and second round of the coming draft so I’d rather keep our picks and add a big to develop from the draft, then we get four full cheap years of a center on our books, that’s my preference

Yeah the Horford bit is where it gets a bit crazy. I could genuinely see a Jrue trade, not as a likely possibility, but as a total surprise from Brad where he's getting off that money early before it's too late and he has to pay to do it rather than getting a rotation piece or two back in exchange. Horford is too integral to what we do and to your point expiring, but you can see age finally catching up to him, so in the same spirit of cashing out before it's too late I don't think it's entirely implausible (I think Brad has that level of ruthlessness/unemotional approach).

I'm luke warm on Rui, but I can see potential there. He seems like a guy who plays best when surrounded by better talent and that'd still be the case with the C's. Part of my logic was just re-setting the frontcourt for a potential future without Horford and/or KP, so while Rui/Kessler are worse versions they're younger with upside and solve the money issues. You're not going to find better options than Al and KP for less money, so that' the rub in this situation, you have to accept we're going to get worse so the upside/age/money is where it has to balance out.

Kessler's value might not be Queta and two firsts but I'm sure that's Danny's asking price (if not more). He's not Mchale, we're not getting any friendly discounts. You might get away with Tillman instead of Queta but I think you're still ponying up the picks if you want to pry him away. Walker needs the extension but I think you could viably stay below the tax for consecutive years after a deal like this, which resets the repeater tax, so that when we do have to sign bigger extensions we can do so without getting hit over the head with crazy tax bills (and we could aggregate salaries again to chase another legit star). So we end up in the same place we are now but with a fresh slate to keep the payroll this high for a few years before you have to reset again to make the team affordable.

[165bows]

If they end up having to make a trade next year due to money it’ll be KP for Brandon Clark and some flotsam.

[Fierce1]

If they end up having to make a trade next year due to money it’ll be KP for Brandon Clark and some flotsam.

Brad knows better.

A star big man is very difficult to find.

Jrue and White will all go ahead of KP.

[165bows]

If they end up having to make a trade next year due to money it’ll be KP for Brandon Clark and some flotsam.

Brad knows better.

A star big man is very difficult to find.

Jrue and White will all go ahead of KP.

Brad loves those two more than his own children.

[jmr07019]

We’re defending champs, a top 3 team in the league and Tatum is a top 4 player in the NBA. Giannis’s team is weak this year and we will only have to face one of Jokic/Shai. Additionally it might be our last year having Horford. Now is most certainly not the time to dump salary. OKC should get stronger the next year or two, Giannis could leave Milwaukee and create a stronger team elsewhere and it’s only a matter of time until Wemby is an issue. We should be looking to increase our chances at a title this year.

[Celts17Pride]

We’re defending champs, a top 3 team in the league and Tatum is a top 4 player in the NBA. Giannis’s team is weak this year and we will only have to face one of Jokic/Shai. Additionally it might be our last year having Horford. Now is most certainly not the time to dump salary. OKC should get stronger the next year or two, Giannis could leave Milwaukee and create a stronger team elsewhere and it’s only a matter of time until Wemby is an issue. We should be looking to increase our chances at a title this year.

Agree 100% and the off-season will be when the Celtics make big moves. Again, the Celtics total payroll will me approximately $513 million next year. Don't see a new owner who will have debt payments willing to spend that kind of money. Phoenix the first team to go over $400 million this year.

The only exception to this is if Brad Stevens gets a good deal in the next few weeks that he just can't pass up.

[phincsfan]

We’re defending champs, a top 3 team in the league and Tatum is a top 4 player in the NBA. Giannis’s team is weak this year and we will only have to face one of Jokic/Shai. Additionally it might be our last year having Horford. Now is most certainly not the time to dump salary. OKC should get stronger the next year or two, Giannis could leave Milwaukee and create a stronger team elsewhere and it’s only a matter of time until Wemby is an issue. We should be looking to increase our chances at a title this year.

Agree 100% and the off-season will be when the Celtics make big moves. Again, the Celtics total payroll will me approximately $513 million next year. Don't see a new owner who will have debt payments willing to spend that kind of money. Phoenix the first team to go over $400 million this year.

The only exception to this is if Brad Stevens gets a good deal in the next few weeks that he just can't pass up.

If the 2nd apron for the 25/26 season increases to the projected 208mil, how does that effect the tax bill? If the 2nd apron stayed at 188mil next year the C's would obviously be 35mil over and would be paying over 250mil luxury taxes. But with the projected number to increase to 208mil they'd be over by 15mil. It's not good to be in the red, but seems to be a little more manageable. Not my money though.

[redslastlaugh]

To me things will receive some clarity tomorrow. The team very publicly announced they will receive the “first round” of bids on Jan 23. This date gives them two weeks before the trade deadline to make any trades, clean the books for future years salary and then take the “second round” of bids. I don’t think the timing is coincidental. We’ll probably get some news tomorrow and certainty we won’t get that until Feb 7, the day after the deadline.

I definitely want to see how the bids come in and the reporting. All this trade speculation for tax/apron purposes may be moot if the new owners are willing to bite the bullet financially to pursue a championship dynasty. So I’m in wait-and-see mode, I guess

I like the creativity. First, I don’t dig the Horford part of it. Horfords value against a Giannis, Jokic or Cleveland’s frontline playoff series is too great to include him, IMO, and as a $10 million expiring, there’s no future financial reason to lose his oncourt positives. Plus Al is too important to the locker room, so I don’t like that part of it.

Jrue to Lakers is an interesting idea because he does seem to fit with their goals and timeline and they wouldn’t have to give up firsts to add him. I’m not a huge Rui guy, he’s fine but I’m more in the category of shooting so many 3PTA introduces too much variance that’s more likely to cause us to get bounced if we go cold and shoot 31% over six or seven games, rather that we should lean more into 3PT offense… But the financial relief would be very helpful for the overall economics of the team, and Rui is a rotation forward in the league and much younger obviously. You’d have to consider it from that perspective…

It’s funny I was listening to the NBA front office YouTube show with Keith Smith a few weeks ago and they went through trades between the teams in Celtics-Lakers history. There were only three trades ever between the rivals. One was in the 70s and before my time. In the late 90s Pitino traded Travis Knight straight up for Tony’s Battie, and then in 04, Danny acquired Gary Payton and a first for Chris Mimh, Chucky Atkins and Jumaine Jones… so it’s literally been 20 years since a trade between BOS and LAL …

Oh… and as to the Walker Kessler part of it, I don’t think his value is Queta plus two firsts. Kessler is gonna need an extension after next season and then we could be almost back to where we were moneywise with just keeping Jrue. I think there are some interesting big men in the later first round and second round of the coming draft so I’d rather keep our picks and add a big to develop from the draft, then we get four full cheap years of a center on our books, that’s my preference

Yeah the Horford bit is where it gets a bit crazy. I could genuinely see a Jrue trade, not as a likely possibility, but as a total surprise from Brad where he's getting off that money early before it's too late and he has to pay to do it rather than getting a rotation piece or two back in exchange. Horford is too integral to what we do and to your point expiring, but you can see age finally catching up to him, so in the same spirit of cashing out before it's too late I don't think it's entirely implausible (I think Brad has that level of ruthlessness/unemotional approach).

I'm luke warm on Rui, but I can see potential there. He seems like a guy who plays best when surrounded by better talent and that'd still be the case with the C's. Part of my logic was just re-setting the frontcourt for a potential future without Horford and/or KP, so while Rui/Kessler are worse versions they're younger with upside and solve the money issues. You're not going to find better options than Al and KP for less money, so that' the rub in this situation, you have to accept we're going to get worse so the upside/age/money is where it has to balance out.

Kessler's value might not be Queta and two firsts but I'm sure that's Danny's asking price (if not more). He's not Mchale, we're not getting any friendly discounts. You might get away with Tillman instead of Queta but I think you're still ponying up the picks if you want to pry him away. Walker needs the extension but I think you could viably stay below the tax for consecutive years after a deal like this, which resets the repeater tax, so that when we do have to sign bigger extensions we can do so without getting hit over the head with crazy tax bills (and we could aggregate salaries again to chase another legit star). So we end up in the same place we are now but with a fresh slate to keep the payroll this high for a few years before you have to reset again to make the team affordable.

[Celts17Pride]

Part of the bids may be we will give you X if you get next year’s payroll down to Y. If you don’t then we will pay you Z. Who knows?

Could be an interesting new two weeks

[playa-hater]

We’re defending champs, a top 3 team in the league and Tatum is a top 4 player in the NBA. Giannis’s team is weak this year and we will only have to face one of Jokic/Shai. Additionally it might be our last year having Horford. Now is most certainly not the time to dump salary. OKC should get stronger the next year or two, Giannis could leave Milwaukee and create a stronger team elsewhere and it’s only a matter of time until Wemby is an issue. We should be looking to increase our chances at a title this year.

Cue my "do something and not stay the same" we need a upgrade THIS year!

[Hal14]

Part of the bids may be we will give you X if you get next year’s payroll down to Y. If you don’t then we will pay you Z. Who knows?

Could be an interesting new two weeks

Eh, idk.

The sale of the Celtics is gonna be a ton of money. Chances are, anyone buying the team will be loaded with cash. Chances are, money won't be much of a concern for them. They've got tons of money so they might not really care that much about a high payroll.

They might be someone who's got money to throw around..so who knows they might start spending even more on the roster - not that we can do that very much with the new CBA..

You buy a team, you probably want to see them win games and win championships. Especially if you're buying a team that just won the title. Why not put more $ into it and build a dynasty.

If you buy the team and immediately start trading good players, trim payroll and make the team worse, all the fans will immediately hate you..

Fenway Sports Group bought the red sox, then like 3 years later they won their first world series in 86 years.

The Clippers payroll has been among the highest in the league, with Ballmer as owner. Before Ballmer got there, it was among the lowest.

Ishba bought the Suns and they've been spending like crazy, compared to before he got there..

[redslastlaugh]

Part of the bids may be we will give you X if you get next year’s payroll down to Y. If you don’t then we will pay you Z. Who knows?

Could be an interesting new two weeks

You buy a team, you probably want to see them win games and win championships. Especially if you're buying a team that just won the title. Why not put more $ into it and build a dynasty.

If you buy the team and immediately start trading good players, trim payroll and make the team worse, all the fans will immediately hate you..

It’s tough to spend $5 or $6 billion to buy the team and then walk into a $200 million loss in year one. Some billionaire may be fine with it, but it seems like a tough ask.

When the team sold last time, the previous ownership let free agents (Rodney Rogers) leave and traded players (Kenny Anderson & Vitaly Potapenko) specifically to restructure salary liability to increase the sale price. The fans did not immediately hate Wyc and Pags because Gaston let Rogers walk, we got over it pretty quick, actually

[phincsfan]

A championship this year with no moves at the deadline and I’m completely fine with being boring and running it back with the same core (including a new deal for Al). Keep both picks or make some moves with those picks. Move XMan for cap relief. Other than that business as usual. Go for the dynasty label.

A back to back IMO solidifies JT and JB’s Celtic lore. I disagreed with Fierce about this not being a year that JT and JB are going for individual accomplishments. Now, JT started out on fire so by the end of the second week of the season he was already anointed the MVP . Then he came back to earth and is a top 5 candidate. A back to back championship gives a team the chance to say “only 6 organizations have done this”. In stone as GREAT!!

The sale of the team may create a hurdle if it’s an outside party or they may not skip a beat if it’s a group led by Pags. But, I definitely think the payroll will be asked to be tweaked.

- KP is the obvious contract that people want to move because it’s gonna be 30mil and expiring. IMO, it’s worthless because of the price and his injury history.
- Jrue is the other obvious contract that people want to move because of his age, price and the length of the contract. IMO, we wouldn’t get a young player or quality draft picks because of his age, price and length. I think his contract is movable in the 26’ offseason.
- The player and contract that I’m gonna throw out there that I believe has the most value based on age, price and length is White’s. IMO, White can get the C’s a quality player and draft picks.

Someone earlier mentioned how the Lakers and Celtics are rarely trade partners. Rivals who don’t want to help each other. But these Lakers are a little different because of LeBron James. As long as he still thinks he can compete and play he has lots of say with whatever team he’s on. If he thinks that he can play for 4 more years than does he care if he’s getting a 30 year old or a 21 year old teammate in a trade? If he thinks he can win with that player than that’s all that counts. Does LA really care about draft picks?

On the flip side the Celtics should do the same scouting they did when they traded for White. A young player on the upswing with a team friendly contract with the chance to eventually resign.

Remember that LA just like NY is all about optics. They don’t care about homegrown talent, they want the shiny thing that can help them win now. NY gave up 4 unprotected picks for Bridges.

Lakers get Derrick White

Celtics get Austin Reaves, rights to Clips 25’ 2nd, LAL swap 2026 1st with C’s , LAL 26’ 2nd and LAL 28’ unprotected 1st.

Reaves is definitely a young player on the upswing with a friendly contract who would fit in right away. 14mil is cut from the payroll next year getting closer to getting under the projected 208mil 2nd apron number for the 25/26 season.

Reaves has a player option for the 26/27 season and he'd most likely cost a pretty penny. At that point if he turns out to be a one year rental at least they would have picked up a couple of 1st's and the payroll would be 30mil less because White's contract was moved.

25/26
KP-JT-JB-Reaves-Jrue
AL-Neems-Sam-PP-Walsh-Drew-Rico-Anton

[Celts17Pride]

Part of the bids may be we will give you X if you get next year’s payroll down to Y. If you don’t then we will pay you Z. Who knows?

Could be an interesting new two weeks

Eh, idk.

The sale of the Celtics is gonna be a ton of money. Chances are, anyone buying the team will be loaded with cash. Chances are, money won't be much of a concern for them. They've got tons of money so they might not really care that much about a high payroll.

They might be someone who's got money to throw around..so who knows they might start spending even more on the roster - not that we can do that very much with the new CBA..

You buy a team, you probably want to see them win games and win championships. Especially if you're buying a team that just won the title. Why not put more $ into it and build a dynasty.

If you buy the team and immediately start trading good players, trim payroll and make the team worse, all the fans will immediately hate you..

Fenway Sports Group bought the red sox, then like 3 years later they won their first world series in 86 years.

The Clippers payroll has been among the highest in the league, with Ballmer as owner. Before Ballmer got there, it was among the lowest.

Ishba bought the Suns and they've been spending like crazy, compared to before he got there..

There are not a ton a Ballmers out there willing to be owners. You are asking the new owners to take on the highest payroll in NBA history when they have to make debt payments. Basically the reason the Grousbeck's are getting out now. Good Luck!

[shackles10]

Salary cuts I think are the most likely outcome but comparing Rodney Rogers to Jrue Holiday isn’t what makes me think that either. I think it’s also apples and oranges to compare what new owners did 20 years ago taking on a team that needed to rebuild with a totally different CBA to a team coming off a title who seriously contended even before the big win. This isn’t a team who had a Cinderella run to the Larry O’Brien. They’ve been knocking on the door for a few years and finally got in led by 3 players in their primes (the Jays and DWhite).

TLDR: you cut salary and waste the primes of the Jays and JT specifically fans will definitely hate the new owners.

[cl2117]

Just for **** and giggles I tried to work up another Jrue to LA deal that gets us below the tax line this year and puts us in position to stay below it next year, while still not totally kneecaping our chances to repeat:

BOS in: Kessler, Svi Mykhailiuk
BOS out: Jrue, Queta, 1 first

C's would juuuuust get below the tax line. Horford goes into the starting lineup, Kessler takes most of Jrue's minutes and we see a lot more double big lineups from Joe.

LAL in: Jrue, Queta
LAL out: Rui, Vincent, Hood-Schafino, Hayes 1 first, 2nds to Det

Lakers get Jrue to pair with AD/LeBron, plus cheap young big in Queta. LeBron would love it.

UTA in: Vincent, Beasley, 1 first for Boston, 1 first from LA
UTA out: Kessler, Svi

Utah get a pair of firsts for Kessler. Have to dump someone after the trade, I'd guess they buy out Beasley (he possibly goes to the Lakers as an unofficial added sweetener for them in the deal).

DET in: Rui, Hayes, 2nds from LA
DET out: Beasley

Detroit gets what I think is a positive value player/contract for the expiring Beasley. Age wise he fits with their core, good skillset fit between Duren and Thompson. They're taking on more money, but it's not bad money and they get some 2nds out of it from LA.

If C's get sold to an ownership group that tells Brad to drastically cut costs, I think this is about as good as he can do.

[brackdan70]

We’re defending champs, a top 3 team in the league and Tatum is a top 4 player in the NBA. Giannis’s team is weak this year and we will only have to face one of Jokic/Shai. Additionally it might be our last year having Horford. Now is most certainly not the time to dump salary. OKC should get stronger the next year or two, Giannis could leave Milwaukee and create a stronger team elsewhere and it’s only a matter of time until Wemby is an issue. We should be looking to increase our chances at a title this year.

Agree 100% and the off-season will be when the Celtics make big moves. Again, the Celtics total payroll will me approximately $513 million next year. Don't see a new owner who will have debt payments willing to spend that kind of money. Phoenix the first team to go over $400 million this year.

The only exception to this is if Brad Stevens gets a good deal in the next few weeks that he just can't pass up.

If the 2nd apron for the 25/26 season increases to the projected 208mil, how does that effect the tax bill? If the 2nd apron stayed at 188mil next year the C's would obviously be 35mil over and would be paying over 250mil luxury taxes. But with the projected number to increase to 208mil they'd be over by 15mil. It's not good to be in the red, but seems to be a little more manageable. Not my money though.

Tax levels are based on the luxury tax level and increase every 5K. The calculations provided above are taking the increased numbers for next season into account. Being in the repeater tax I would think the Cs would be very cognizant of dropping a level or avoiding going over a level if the can. If the don’t do anything they will have that 250 plus million tax bill next year.

[Fierce1]

Just get a minor upgrade to boost our chances.

Today we'll be seeing the Clips and Amir Coffey.

I'm not sure if Coffey is available or not, but I think Coffey is starter material and can be a potential Jrue replacement.

Coffey is an expiring, but the Cs will inherit his Bird Rights.