2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 4

[Daffy]

As inconsistent as Bam has been this season you don't move him because Ware has developed. Especially when we're a team already lacking star power.

A duo of Bam and Ware could potentially put a lot of teams in prison defensively. Imagine Bam switching on everything and driving them into a rim protecting Ware. Imagine a lineup of something like.....

Fox
Herro
"Drafted 2 way SF here"
Bam
Ware.

Add Fox or a Trae Young type. Find another above average SF and then we're cooking.

[Hoops3355]

PHX 26 and 28 plus Jovic or Jaime gets us Fox?

I don't think we'll trade for Fox unless its a reasonable deal. Next season his leverage goes up quite a bit so it could be as simple of as a couple firsts + Filler, no one is taking Fox on a rental as unlike Jimmy and Dame he's is free to go wherever he wants in 2026. Don't see us wasting assets vs waiting.

[greg4012]

Read on Twitter

If Miami is getting Middleton & Portis, it could be their expirings that would be traded for a star in the offseason or next season, but it could also be Duncan or Rozier's expirings (assuming both make it thru this trade). Lots of optionality.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

If Miami is getting Middleton & Portis, it could be their expirings that would be traded for a star in the offseason or next season, but it could also be Duncan or Rozier's expirings (assuming both make it thru this trade). Lots of optionality.

$80M in expirings, 3-4 1sts, and the young guys. We might be adding Fox and another all star this summer lol

[batterybro42]

It's all about skillsets. If they complement each other and serve the scheme that the team prioritizes, then what's bad about having 2 guys that CAN play center and PLAY together?? If they can fit together on offense, then there is no concern on defense. I promise you that Bam can guard PFs better than basically every PF in the NBA

Do you think CLE's frontcourt is a dire crisis that needs to be resolved?

I think their frontcourt fits so well this year because Mobley is shooting 42% from 3 on career high volume. They have a true 4-5 that can share the floor together. This entire deal hinges on Bam being able to play the 4, which is going to require him being able to score away from the basket. It is not an argument on him being a good player or not. At a point if the fit does not work you have decide between Ware being 20 on a rookie deal or Bam approaching 30 making the max

Evan Mobley is shooting 2.8 3PA per game at a 42% clip (4.5 3PA per 100 possessions). Kel'el Ware is currently shooting 1.5 3PA per game at a 39% clip (5.0 3PA per 100 possessions) as a rookie while adjusting to every facet of the NBA.

As a rookie, Mobley was shooting 1.3 3PA per game at a 25% clip (2 3PA per 100 possessions).

Ware is ALREADY shooting 3s at a higher rate than Mobley and just as well.

Let's add another layer--Jarrett Allen is shooting 0 3PA per game at a 0% clip and has never averaged even 0.5 3PA per game for his career. Bam literally just started working on his 3 ball and is currently shooting a lackluster 27%. But Bammy already shared some of the progress numbers comparing Bam to others.

I understand if you vehemently believe that Bam will never become average from 3. I disagree. But, even if that's the case, the pairing of Bam and Ware is set up to be more dynamic offensively and provide better spacing dynamics than the Cleveland frontcourt is this season. CLE just so happens to have the #1 offense in the NBA.

If Ware didn't have a shooting skillset, then I think there'd be a convo to be had. But Ware was specifically drafted as a 3&D center (that can obviously also rim run) because of the compatibility with Miami's core personnel and what they want to do.

I see your point but if you have been watching Ware play and understand the gravity he commands in the paint as a lob threat, you do not want him outside the paint. I think it will soon become an accepted comparison between him and Wemby. What I do not want to see is Ware playing like Wemby. He does not need to be camped out at the 3 point line, his gravity inside and his ability to finish lobs or put backs is where his focus should be, because he can be elite at that.

I do not see the fit working with Bam as the paint guy, and Ware as the outside threat. The way that fit works to me is with Bam being able to be a perimeter playmaker, and being able to shoot at a good clip from the corner to elbow extended. The Ware PNR is currently the best action we have on offense.

[DayofMourning]

PHX looking like some suckers tbh. They went to the Finals then said lets blow it up. Now they wanna pay diva Butler $50 mil a year for 3 years. Good luck is all I say.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I think their frontcourt fits so well this year because Mobley is shooting 42% from 3 on career high volume. They have a true 4-5 that can share the floor together. This entire deal hinges on Bam being able to play the 4, which is going to require him being able to score away from the basket. It is not an argument on him being a good player or not. At a point if the fit does not work you have decide between Ware being 20 on a rookie deal or Bam approaching 30 making the max

Evan Mobley is shooting 2.8 3PA per game at a 42% clip (4.5 3PA per 100 possessions). Kel'el Ware is currently shooting 1.5 3PA per game at a 39% clip (5.0 3PA per 100 possessions) as a rookie while adjusting to every facet of the NBA.

As a rookie, Mobley was shooting 1.3 3PA per game at a 25% clip (2 3PA per 100 possessions).

Ware is ALREADY shooting 3s at a higher rate than Mobley and just as well.

Let's add another layer--Jarrett Allen is shooting 0 3PA per game at a 0% clip and has never averaged even 0.5 3PA per game for his career. Bam literally just started working on his 3 ball and is currently shooting a lackluster 27%. But Bammy already shared some of the progress numbers comparing Bam to others.

I understand if you vehemently believe that Bam will never become average from 3. I disagree. But, even if that's the case, the pairing of Bam and Ware is set up to be more dynamic offensively and provide better spacing dynamics than the Cleveland frontcourt is this season. CLE just so happens to have the #1 offense in the NBA.

If Ware didn't have a shooting skillset, then I think there'd be a convo to be had. But Ware was specifically drafted as a 3&D center (that can obviously also rim run) because of the compatibility with Miami's core personnel and what they want to do.

I see your point but if you have been watching Ware play and understand the gravity he commands in the paint as a lob threat, you do not want him outside the paint. I think it will soon become an accepted comparison between him and Wemby. What I do not want to see is Ware playing like Wemby. He does not need to be camped out at the 3 point line, his gravity inside and his ability to finish lobs or put backs is where his focus should be, because he can be elite at that.

I do not see the fit working with Bam as the paint guy, and Ware as the outside threat. The way that fit works to me is with Bam being able to be a perimeter playmaker, and being able to shoot at a good clip from the corner to elbow extended. The Ware PNR is currently the best action we have on offense.

You think Ware is going to be as good as Wemby?

[greg4012]

Read on Twitter

If Miami is getting Middleton & Portis, it could be their expirings that would be traded for a star in the offseason or next season, but it could also be Duncan or Rozier's expirings (assuming both make it thru this trade). Lots of optionality.

$80M in expirings, 3-4 1sts, and the young guys. We might be adding Fox and another all star this summer lol

I'll settle for Fox and a dynamic 3&D wing

[RexBoyWonder]

I'm getting to the point where I'd rather die with Larsson then watch more Rozier.

throw the kid into the fire - he's an immediate defensive upgrade and I trust his BB IQ more then Terry's, he just need reps.

[DayofMourning]

PHX 26 and 28 plus Jovic or Jaime gets us Fox?

I don't think we'll trade for Fox unless its a reasonable deal. Next season his leverage goes up quite a bit so it could be as simple of as a couple firsts + Filler, no one is taking Fox on a rental as unlike Jimmy and Dame he's is free to go wherever he wants in 2026. Don't see us wasting assets vs waiting.

We all about wasting assets lol. We give up picks for free agents. Thats what we do.

You know we will burn through whatever picks we get.

[DayofMourning]

If Miami is getting Middleton & Portis, it could be their expirings that would be traded for a star in the offseason or next season, but it could also be Duncan or Rozier's expirings (assuming both make it thru this trade). Lots of optionality.

$80M in expirings, 3-4 1sts, and the young guys. We might be adding Fox and another all star this summer lol

I'll settle for Fox and a dynamic 3&D wing

Tank for Flagg. Trade for Fox. Problems solved;)

[Kobewade11]

PHX looking like some suckers tbh. They went to the Finals then said lets blow it up. Now they wanna pay diva Butler $50 mil a year for 3 years. Good luck is all I say.

From the Suns board:

We had one of the best situations in the NBA, but then our owner got impatient and we traded it away for an aging superstar who has no interest in being a leader and has a terrible attitude. We went from having the best wing situation possible for potentially 10 years in Book / Mikal and traded it for 3 years of KD. We have now mortgaged every vauable pick imagineable to continue to doulbe down over and over.

I like Jimmy Butler. He's a good player. But he's old and on the decline. I expect we end up with Butler one way or another. But when we don't win a title and end up with 2 35+ year old guys making $100M between them in KD and Jimmy after Ishbia resigns him, with no decent picks fr a god damned decade, I won't be able to root for this BS anymore.

If the Suns don't find a way to make this work, I'm moving on. To blow up a team in the western conference finals so you can get a shiny new toy who happens to be an egomaniac spending half his day making burner accounts to defend himself to fans, I just won't ever get past it.

I absolutely hate what Ishbia did in giving up what he did for KD, and I loathe KD's lack of responsibility to this team in the wake of it. KD has played well, but he refuses to lead and until he does we will suffer like this.

Trading all those picks plus Mikal and Cam was always astonishingly stupid. Nobody was beating the offer of just those picks, and we could always get KD in the offseason. There was no need for it. It was unnecessarily wreckless. I get Ishbia means well and is spending his own money and doing nice things for the community but he needs to stay the **** out of basketball operations. Stop listening to Isiah Thomas and fire James Jones who has **** sucked his entire time here. Get a real exec. Pay whatever it costs to get somebody elite and stay out of the way

[greg4012]

I think their frontcourt fits so well this year because Mobley is shooting 42% from 3 on career high volume. They have a true 4-5 that can share the floor together. This entire deal hinges on Bam being able to play the 4, which is going to require him being able to score away from the basket. It is not an argument on him being a good player or not. At a point if the fit does not work you have decide between Ware being 20 on a rookie deal or Bam approaching 30 making the max

Evan Mobley is shooting 2.8 3PA per game at a 42% clip (4.5 3PA per 100 possessions). Kel'el Ware is currently shooting 1.5 3PA per game at a 39% clip (5.0 3PA per 100 possessions) as a rookie while adjusting to every facet of the NBA.

As a rookie, Mobley was shooting 1.3 3PA per game at a 25% clip (2 3PA per 100 possessions).

Ware is ALREADY shooting 3s at a higher rate than Mobley and just as well.

Let's add another layer--Jarrett Allen is shooting 0 3PA per game at a 0% clip and has never averaged even 0.5 3PA per game for his career. Bam literally just started working on his 3 ball and is currently shooting a lackluster 27%. But Bammy already shared some of the progress numbers comparing Bam to others.

I understand if you vehemently believe that Bam will never become average from 3. I disagree. But, even if that's the case, the pairing of Bam and Ware is set up to be more dynamic offensively and provide better spacing dynamics than the Cleveland frontcourt is this season. CLE just so happens to have the #1 offense in the NBA.

If Ware didn't have a shooting skillset, then I think there'd be a convo to be had. But Ware was specifically drafted as a 3&D center (that can obviously also rim run) because of the compatibility with Miami's core personnel and what they want to do.

I see your point but if you have been watching Ware play and understand the gravity he commands in the paint as a lob threat, you do not want him outside the paint. I think it will soon become an accepted comparison between him and Wemby. What I do not want to see is Ware playing like Wemby. He does not need to be camped out at the 3 point line, his gravity inside and his ability to finish lobs or put backs is where his focus should be, because he can be elite at that.

I do not see the fit working with Bam as the paint guy, and Ware as the outside threat. The way that fit works to me is with Bam being able to be a perimeter playmaker, and being able to shoot at a good clip from the corner to elbow extended. The Ware PNR is currently the best action we have on offense.

I do want him outside the paint and inside the paint. This is the modern NBA. I want my perimeter players to benefit from both vertical and court spacing.

It's a waste to have a big solely in the paint in the modern NBA if they can do more. 3>2. Added benefit of driving lanes for others to up their efficiency when the rim protector is dragged out of the paint.

That's the beauty of the fits between Bam, Ware, and Jovic.

Wemby is currently shooting 9 3PA per game (13 per 100 possessions). That's absurd and I agree that it is a misuse of his talent. That doesn't mean Wemby would be best served not shooting 3s at all.

Wemby also has a handle, which is more of a contrast in style of play than the CLE frontcourt dialogue.

As stated, Ware is currently shooting 3s at a rate slightly greater than Mobley. That works well.

Balance and versatility are key for modern playoff basketball.

Bam doesn't need to be on the perimeter to playmake. He def can tho and 5-out spacing is a boon for offense when it works. Bam obviously playmakes from the perimeter and top of key, but IMO he is often at his best when around the elbows--that way he has the whole court at his disposal. When projecting Bam in this new age on offense, think Draymond.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I'm getting to the point where I'd rather die with Larsson then watch more Rozier.

throw the kid into the fire - he's an immediate defensive upgrade and I trust his BB IQ more then Terry's, he just need reps.

Terrys worried about 1 thing, scoring. Guys like Pelle are trying to do every possible thing they can to get noticed, it shows when he steps on the court. We need more hard nosed guys. All these offense only guys have put a damper on everything

[DayofMourning]

I'm getting to the point where I'd rather die with Larsson then watch more Rozier.

throw the kid into the fire - he's an immediate defensive upgrade and I trust his BB IQ more then Terry's, he just need reps.

Need Terry in order to tank. Larsson was a plus 20 or some **** in 5 minutes last night. Need to keep him far away from any lineup;)

[batterybro42]

Evan Mobley is shooting 2.8 3PA per game at a 42% clip (4.5 3PA per 100 possessions). Kel'el Ware is currently shooting 1.5 3PA per game at a 39% clip (5.0 3PA per 100 possessions) as a rookie while adjusting to every facet of the NBA.

As a rookie, Mobley was shooting 1.3 3PA per game at a 25% clip (2 3PA per 100 possessions).

Ware is ALREADY shooting 3s at a higher rate than Mobley and just as well.

Let's add another layer--Jarrett Allen is shooting 0 3PA per game at a 0% clip and has never averaged even 0.5 3PA per game for his career. Bam literally just started working on his 3 ball and is currently shooting a lackluster 27%. But Bammy already shared some of the progress numbers comparing Bam to others.

I understand if you vehemently believe that Bam will never become average from 3. I disagree. But, even if that's the case, the pairing of Bam and Ware is set up to be more dynamic offensively and provide better spacing dynamics than the Cleveland frontcourt is this season. CLE just so happens to have the #1 offense in the NBA.

If Ware didn't have a shooting skillset, then I think there'd be a convo to be had. But Ware was specifically drafted as a 3&D center (that can obviously also rim run) because of the compatibility with Miami's core personnel and what they want to do.

I see your point but if you have been watching Ware play and understand the gravity he commands in the paint as a lob threat, you do not want him outside the paint. I think it will soon become an accepted comparison between him and Wemby. What I do not want to see is Ware playing like Wemby. He does not need to be camped out at the 3 point line, his gravity inside and his ability to finish lobs or put backs is where his focus should be, because he can be elite at that.

I do not see the fit working with Bam as the paint guy, and Ware as the outside threat. The way that fit works to me is with Bam being able to be a perimeter playmaker, and being able to shoot at a good clip from the corner to elbow extended. The Ware PNR is currently the best action we have on offense.

You think Ware is going to be as good as Wemby?

No but I think they have similar skills and present similar issues. Defensively I think Ware can be as good as Wemby.

Ware can be Wemby without the handle which I am not sure is a bad thing because a lot of what I see Wemby doing will actually hurt his game in the long run. You have plenty of other guys who can handle the basketball and shoot, not too many guys over 7 feet who can jump, move, and defend like that though. Ware already has great touch around the rim he can become a pop threat on the PNR to me that is all that is really needed from him in terms of playmaking. He can easily score 15+ a night by simply being a rim running lob threat. A lot of what he does as well simply does not show up in the box score. He effects the game on both ends simply by not even touching the ball, and that will increase as teams become more aware of him.

The bold take I will make is that I believe Ware to be the most talented player we have drafted since Wade.

[Voltron914]

Middleton has tormented us so many times throughout the years. Hopefully he has some quality golden years left. He should be good for the young guys in the lockerroom

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

42-10-5

25-10-5

29-12-5

I’m hoping we get him, we need big game performers. His mid range game is nasty.

i always liked Middleton's game and he is a shot creator. he would benefit the most from bam's screens and he is great at stopping scoring droughts which he suffer from

[Hoops3355]

Read on Twitter

Yup just like i mentioned. 2027 pick is priority and eases the blow from Rozier trade.

Neither of these futures picks are a concern imo. Anyone saying they are gonna be lottery picks are crazy. Without Jimmy this team definitely still makes the play-in. The East is terrible. The Clutch move would be missing the playoff this season and getting a lottery pick aka we need Bam to break a finger on his non shooting hand and miss the rest of the season.

Next season we'll make some minor moves and bring in a temporary point guard + bring back Dru Smith and we will all like it because we know.

2026 or Bust. It's the Riley way.

[greg4012]

I see your point but if you have been watching Ware play and understand the gravity he commands in the paint as a lob threat, you do not want him outside the paint. I think it will soon become an accepted comparison between him and Wemby. What I do not want to see is Ware playing like Wemby. He does not need to be camped out at the 3 point line, his gravity inside and his ability to finish lobs or put backs is where his focus should be, because he can be elite at that.

I do not see the fit working with Bam as the paint guy, and Ware as the outside threat. The way that fit works to me is with Bam being able to be a perimeter playmaker, and being able to shoot at a good clip from the corner to elbow extended. The Ware PNR is currently the best action we have on offense.

You think Ware is going to be as good as Wemby?

No but I think they have similar skills and present similar issues. Defensively I think Ware can be as good as Wemby.

Ware can be Wemby without the handle which I am not sure is a bad thing because a lot of what I see Wemby doing will actually hurt his game in the long run. You have plenty of other guys who can handle the basketball and shoot, not too many guys over 7 feet who can jump, move, and defend like that though. Ware already has great touch around the rim he can become a pop threat on the PNR to me that is all that is really needed from him in terms of playmaking. He can easily score 15+ a night by simply being a rim running lob threat. A lot of what he does as well simply does not show up in the box score. He effects the game on both ends simply by not even touching the ball, and that will increase as teams become more aware of him.

The bold take I will make is that I believe Ware to be the most talented player we have drafted since Wade.

I dig all of this. If you've been following, I've been one of the bigger Ware cheerleaders on here since the Heat dove into his "draft concerns" and deemed them a false flag. Check out the WARE thread that I bumped a few days ago from around draft time.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2389576

BTW the thing about Ware being Wemby without a handle--which is on point--is it becomes all the more important for his frontcourt mate to have a handle

[batterybro42]

Evan Mobley is shooting 2.8 3PA per game at a 42% clip (4.5 3PA per 100 possessions). Kel'el Ware is currently shooting 1.5 3PA per game at a 39% clip (5.0 3PA per 100 possessions) as a rookie while adjusting to every facet of the NBA.

As a rookie, Mobley was shooting 1.3 3PA per game at a 25% clip (2 3PA per 100 possessions).

Ware is ALREADY shooting 3s at a higher rate than Mobley and just as well.

Let's add another layer--Jarrett Allen is shooting 0 3PA per game at a 0% clip and has never averaged even 0.5 3PA per game for his career. Bam literally just started working on his 3 ball and is currently shooting a lackluster 27%. But Bammy already shared some of the progress numbers comparing Bam to others.

I understand if you vehemently believe that Bam will never become average from 3. I disagree. But, even if that's the case, the pairing of Bam and Ware is set up to be more dynamic offensively and provide better spacing dynamics than the Cleveland frontcourt is this season. CLE just so happens to have the #1 offense in the NBA.

If Ware didn't have a shooting skillset, then I think there'd be a convo to be had. But Ware was specifically drafted as a 3&D center (that can obviously also rim run) because of the compatibility with Miami's core personnel and what they want to do.

I see your point but if you have been watching Ware play and understand the gravity he commands in the paint as a lob threat, you do not want him outside the paint. I think it will soon become an accepted comparison between him and Wemby. What I do not want to see is Ware playing like Wemby. He does not need to be camped out at the 3 point line, his gravity inside and his ability to finish lobs or put backs is where his focus should be, because he can be elite at that.

I do not see the fit working with Bam as the paint guy, and Ware as the outside threat. The way that fit works to me is with Bam being able to be a perimeter playmaker, and being able to shoot at a good clip from the corner to elbow extended. The Ware PNR is currently the best action we have on offense.

I do want him outside the paint and inside the paint. This is the modern NBA. I want my perimeter players to benefit from both vertical and court spacing.

It's a waste to have a big solely in the paint in the modern NBA if they can do more. 3>2. Added benefit of driving lanes for others to up their efficiency when the rim protector is dragged out of the paint.

That's the beauty of the fits between Bam, Ware, and Jovic.

Wemby is currently shooting 9 3PA per game (13 per 100 possessions). That's absurd and I agree that it is a misuse of his talent. That doesn't mean Wemby would be best served not shooting 3s at all.

Wemby also has a handle, which is more of a contrast in style of play than the CLE frontcourt dialogue.

As stated, Ware is currently shooting 3s at a rate slightly greater than Mobley. That works well.

Balance and versatility are key for modern playoff basketball.

Bam doesn't need to be on the perimeter to playmake. He def can tho and 5-out spacing is a boon for offense when it works. Bam obviously playmakes from the perimeter and top of key, but IMO he is often at his best when around the elbows--that way he has the whole court at his disposal. When projecting Bam in this new age on offense, think Draymond.

You want Ware shooting threes off PNR actions as a counter, in transition as a trailer, and occasionally spot up looks off iso sets. What you don't want him doing is playing off the ball and off the action as a driver/catch and shoot guy, which is the role Bam would have to fill if he is not the primary screener in offensive actions. You need a shooter in that spot, and I think it would be outrageous to have Ware not be the primary screener moving forward.