Will Kevin Durant ever win a Championship as the best player on his team?

[SweaterBae]

KD played 3 seasons with the Warriors. They made the finals all 3 times. He won two Finals MVPs. The one finals he didn't play, they lost.

[sashaturiaf]

KD played 3 seasons with the Warriors. They made the finals all 3 times. He won two Finals MVPs. The one finals he didn't play, they lost.

Simple as that. Nobody was even close to the Dubs with KD there

We've seen many superteams on paper crash and burn. That Warriors team was an unstoppable juggernaut that bombed all into submission through jumpshots

[Ssj16]

You may think it isn’t up for debate but that is you, and as with many things on the internet saying something repeatedly or vehemently doesn’t make it true/other than a matter of opinion.

Again, why pray tell do arcane rules apply to what KD is allowed to do particularly as a Free Agent while LeBron has done what he pleased 3 times to increase his chances of winning titles ?.

…it ISN’T up for debate. It’s a literal fact that LeBron tried staying in Cleveland first. You not wanting it to be the case doesn’t make it so. I don’t make the rules regarding how reality works.

And because LeBron didn’t go to the team that he choked to in the playoffs and was a 73 win team. This isn’t rocket science. Don’t let blind fanboyism make you die on this hill.

I will have you know I am a Curry fanboy rather than a Durant fanboy. And I bow to your obvious superior expertise in blind fanboyism. It has been my experience btw that resorting to argumentum ad hominem is not commonly a sign that the party concerned is winning the debate. I am actually amused and pleased to be called a fanboy for defending Durant on an obvious troll/agenda thread started purely to denigrate him, but it would seem likely you are not very familiar with the concept of irony.


As I have said on numerous occasions LeBron was never going to be given what he needed and was his due at the Cavs the first time and was entirely entitled to leave after giving them nearly a decade of his best efforts, and could go wherever he pleased as far as I am concerned as a free agent. I am yet to hear what better options he rejected, but nor should he have taken other than his best option imo. Your ‘literal fact’ is hardly compelling, more a literary fact actually, something you read somewhere and very short on details.

In actual reality Durant was drafted by the Seattle SuperSonics, and perhaps oddly played his rookie year in the city of Seattle, after which the franchise was hi-jacked to OKC. He gave the franchise I believe 8 further years, re-upping once, and was counted as being outclassed by LeBron and the Heatles despite despite facing a superteam with a team of fellow 22 and 23 year olds, with subsequent discussions mainly based on what he and his team-mates became at their peaks rather than what they were then. After brilliant drafting OKC didn’t keep Harden, and made no attempt to improve the coaching, game plan or roster (in particular the spacing) despite improvements obviously being necessary. He also gave OKC 4 more years after a finals loss in which they didn’t win a title, had a career threatening injury the management of which gave every appearance to me of being flawed, but was supposed to stay again because of a WCF loss this time. ?.

Most of all as I said elsewhere he was a Free Agent entitled to go wherever he chose after 9 years. You are perhaps unfamiliar with the meaning of the word free ?. He was a top 5 player who joined another top 5 player as has been commonplace over the last 15 years or so, but a well constructed team had been built around the top 5 player he joined which is actually not illegal or unfair.

Someone trying to state that Lebron and KD's paths are completely different are definitely bias.

"…it ISN’T up for debate. It’s a literal fact that LeBron tried staying in Cleveland first". What does this even mean? KD tried to stay in OKC first, so did AD with New Orleans.

If Lebron wanted to stay in Cleveland his whole career, he could have but he decided to jump to greener pastures where he could create "super teams". This is a fact that is not debatable because it happened several times in his career.

[The Servant]

KD played 3 seasons with the Warriors. They made the finals all 3 times. He won two Finals MVPs. The one finals he didn't play, they lost.

The Miami Heat went 2 for 4 with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.

2x FMVP for LeBron

GSW goes 2 for 3 with KD, Steph, Klay

2x FMVP for KD

Only counts for LeBron though.

[bledredwine]

KD played 3 seasons with the Warriors. They made the finals all 3 times. He won two Finals MVPs. The one finals he didn't play, they lost.

The Miami Heat went 2 for 4 with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.

2x FMVP for LeBron

GSW goes 2 for 3 with KD, Steph, Klay

2x FMVP for KD

Only counts for LeBron though.

Exactly. It’s too funny. And if the Heat crushed everyone like they were anticipated to, would we speak of lebron the same way as Durant?
Nope, because those who hate Durant are Lebron fans and they're up set that KD prevented him from GMing more championships and even exposed Lebron in the process. Lebron cheated the system first and Durant followed. That's the blunt truth.

There was a desired to prop Lebron on a tier of his own and Durant shut that down.... in the finals at that. Jimmy Butler also showed that you could play on the same level in the finals. Regardless, the GM'ing of super teams is Lebron's specialty and he deserves at least as much hate as Durant gets in that regard.

Speaking of Miami Heatles,

2010 - 58 wins and the finals choke
2011 - 46 wins and finals win
2012 - 66 wins and finals win
2013 - 54 wins and slaughtered in finals

That is a failure, considering the expectations and remarkable amount of talent they assembled. At least Durant was a true ceiling raiser. And as we know, 2012 is nearly another loss (the Allen 3 Bosh rebound)

Realgm was talking about the possibility of the Big 3 going undefeated. That's how cheap it was at the time - no less cheap than Durant joining the 73 win Golden State, which everyone should know wasn't a 73 win team (couldn't even win the chip, Steph was never the same since he became hobbled, Rockets and Durant's OKC almost knocked GS out that year etc).

[HMFFL]

KD played 3 seasons with the Warriors. They made the finals all 3 times. He won two Finals MVPs. The one finals he didn't play, they lost.

The Miami Heat went 2 for 4 with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.

2x FMVP for LeBron

GSW goes 2 for 3 with KD, Steph, Klay

2x FMVP for KD

Only counts for LeBron though.

Exactly. It’s too funny. And if the Heat crushed everyone like they were anticipated to, would we speak of lebron the same way as Durant?
Nope, because those who hate Durant are Lebron fans and they're up set that KD prevented him from GMing more championships and even exposed Lebron in the process. Lebron cheated the system first and Durant followed. That's the blunt truth.

There was a desired to prop Lebron on a tier of his own and Durant shut that down.... in the finals at that. Jimmy Butler also showed that you could play on the same level in the finals. Regardless, the GM'ing of super teams is Lebron's specialty and he deserves at least as much hate as Durant gets in that regard.

Speaking of Miami Heatles,

2010 - 58 wins and the finals choke
2011 - 46 wins and finals win
2012 - 66 wins and finals win
2013 - 54 wins and slaughtered in finals

That is a failure, considering the expectations and remarkable amount of talent they assembled. At least Durant was a true ceiling raiser. And as we know, 2012 is nearly another loss (the Allen 3 Bosh rebound)

Realgm was talking about the possibility of the Big 3 going undefeated. That's how cheap it was at the time - no less cheap than Durant joining the 73 win Golden State, which everyone should know wasn't a 73 win team (couldn't even win the chip, Steph was never the same since he became hobbled, Rockets and Durant's OKC almost knocked GS out that year etc).

Those KD haters will also be insecure once Lebron retires and KD plays until "The Wheels Fall Off"

I doubt KD will want the media to mention that he's old, like how Lebron enjoys it.

I doubt Lebron wants KD to retire with the most seasons played.

Vince Carter and LeBron James have played the most seasons in NBA history with 22 seasons each. 

Sent from my SM-S928U1 using RealGM mobile app

[OdomFan]

I'm not a fan of him joining the Warriors as much as many others out there, but I watched those Finals in 2017 and 2018, and I absolutely have no doubt in my mind that the Warriors do not win either ring without those big shots he put up in the 4th quarter of those games. I think people ignore that part and focus too much attention on the fact that he joined them to win the easy rings. He did, but while there his efforts speak for itself. He earned his Finals MVPs.

I wish he would have did that in DC instead.

[michaelm]

I'm not a fan of him joining the Warriors as much as many others out there, but I watched those Finals in 2017 and 2018, and I absolutely have no doubt in my mind that the Warriors do not win either ring without those big shots he put up in the 4th quarter of those games. I think people ignore that part and focus too much attention on the fact that he joined them to win the easy rings. He did, but while there his efforts speak for itself. He earned his Finals MVPs.

I wish he would have did that in DC instead.

My objection is specifically to LeBron partisans condemning his move. I have no problem with more general fans of the sport having a preference for him choosing a different course.

For the LeBron fans I am not sure why LeBron’s pursuit of elevating his status individually in the sport is a more worthy ambition than GSW trying to be the best team ever.

[tsherkin]

I'm not a fan of him joining the Warriors as much as many others out there, but I watched those Finals in 2017 and 2018, and I absolutely have no doubt in my mind that the Warriors do not win either ring without those big shots he put up in the 4th quarter of those games. I think people ignore that part and focus too much attention on the fact that he joined them to win the easy rings. He did, but while there his efforts speak for itself. He earned his Finals MVPs.

I wish he would have did that in DC instead.

It isn't as if Steph hasn't hit big shots before. If Durant wasn't there, he'd be the one taking those shots. Durant was good, but let's not get this twisted up too much. That Warriors squad was a title-winning squad before he even got there.

[michaelm]

KD played 3 seasons with the Warriors. They made the finals all 3 times. He won two Finals MVPs. The one finals he didn't play, they lost.

The Miami Heat went 2 for 4 with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.

2x FMVP for LeBron

GSW goes 2 for 3 with KD, Steph, Klay

2x FMVP for KD

Only counts for LeBron though.

Exactly. It’s too funny. And if the Heat crushed everyone like they were anticipated to, would we speak of lebron the same way as Durant?
Nope, because those who hate Durant are Lebron fans and they're up set that KD prevented him from GMing more championships and even exposed Lebron in the process. Lebron cheated the system first and Durant followed. That's the blunt truth.

There was a desired to prop Lebron on a tier of his own and Durant shut that down.... in the finals at that. Jimmy Butler also showed that you could play on the same level in the finals. Regardless, the GM'ing of super teams is Lebron's specialty and he deserves at least as much hate as Durant gets in that regard.

Speaking of Miami Heatles,

2010 - 58 wins and the finals choke
2011 - 46 wins and finals win
2012 - 66 wins and finals win
2013 - 54 wins and slaughtered in finals

That is a failure, considering the expectations and remarkable amount of talent they assembled. At least Durant was a true ceiling raiser. And as we know, 2012 is nearly another loss (the Allen 3 Bosh rebound)

Realgm was talking about the possibility of the Big 3 going undefeated. That's how cheap it was at the time - no less cheap than Durant joining the 73 win Golden State, which everyone should know wasn't a 73 win team (couldn't even win the chip, Steph was never the same since he became hobbled, Rockets and Durant's OKC almost knocked GS out that year etc).

If you bring a gun to a knife fight it is a little rich imo to complain about someone returning to the fray with a bigger gun.

[michaelm]

KD played 3 seasons with the Warriors. They made the finals all 3 times. He won two Finals MVPs. The one finals he didn't play, they lost.

The Miami Heat went 2 for 4 with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.

2x FMVP for LeBron

GSW goes 2 for 3 with KD, Steph, Klay

2x FMVP for KD

Only counts for LeBron though.

Exactly. It’s too funny. And if the Heat crushed everyone like they were anticipated to, would we speak of lebron the same way as Durant?
Nope, because those who hate Durant are Lebron fans and they're up set that KD prevented him from GMing more championships and even exposed Lebron in the process. Lebron cheated the system first and Durant followed. That's the blunt truth.

There was a desired to prop Lebron on a tier of his own and Durant shut that down.... in the finals at that. Jimmy Butler also showed that you could play on the same level in the finals. Regardless, the GM'ing of super teams is Lebron's specialty and he deserves at least as much hate as Durant gets in that regard.

Speaking of Miami Heatles,

2010 - 58 wins and the finals choke
2011 - 46 wins and finals win
2012 - 66 wins and finals win
2013 - 54 wins and slaughtered in finals

That is a failure, considering the expectations and remarkable amount of talent they assembled. At least Durant was a true ceiling raiser. And as we know, 2012 is nearly another loss (the Allen 3 Bosh rebound)

Realgm was talking about the possibility of the Big 3 going undefeated. That's how cheap it was at the time - no less cheap than Durant joining the 73 win Golden State, which everyone should know wasn't a 73 win team (couldn't even win the chip, Steph was never the same since he became hobbled, Rockets and Durant's OKC almost knocked GS out that year etc).

A previous poster mentioned context, which can work both ways.

It is a seperate question than whether LeBron is on a tier above KD, but he was placed on such a tier when the Heatles superteam beat KD and his team of fellow 22 and 23 year olds in the 2012 finals.

The other aspect is that KD had a career threatening injury, a Jones fracture in his foot, and missed pretty much a whole season’s worth of games in two separate stints, probably returning prematurely the first time. Yet while LeBron is apparently justified in making multiple win now moves to follow his destiny or whatever, KD if he did leave OKC was according to LeBron partisans obliged to start from scratch elsewhere.

Admittedly I am Australian and our sporting culture is different. A court decision over 50 years gave teams no rights at all to players they drafted or otherwise acquired beyond the end of a contract. This is also a large country and it is entirely acceptable for players who have served out a contract to go elsewhere, for family reasons, reasons of spousal employment, for a change or a better opportunity, for more money or whatever else.

[michaelm]

I'm not a fan of him joining the Warriors as much as many others out there, but I watched those Finals in 2017 and 2018, and I absolutely have no doubt in my mind that the Warriors do not win either ring without those big shots he put up in the 4th quarter of those games. I think people ignore that part and focus too much attention on the fact that he joined them to win the easy rings. He did, but while there his efforts speak for itself. He earned his Finals MVPs.

I wish he would have did that in DC instead.

It isn't as if Steph hasn't hit big shots before. If Durant wasn't there, he'd be the one taking those shots. Durant was good, but let's not get this twisted up too much. That Warriors squad was a title-winning squad before he even got there.

Except if you read this forum after the 2015 title win there were myriad posts including by some posters on a daily basis contending that GSW didn’t really win that litle which was influential on subsequent events, especially the ill advised attempt to win the regular season record.

Particularly as a GSW/Curry fan sure I would like to think they could have won a title with a lesser player than KD replacing Harrison Barnes whom they were going to replace regardless. But GSW had the cap space and KD was a Free Agent, so why on earth would they handicap themselves ?. I have to say as a GSW fan I am stoked about the 2017 team being in the conversation for the best team ever, to which KD contributed significantly.

[aliasxn]

At this point in his career, no. I'd take a perfect storm like with Kawhi on the Raptors, where the contenders went down with injuries and he ended up at the right place at the perfect possible time to take advantage of it.

[Iwasawitness]

…it ISN’T up for debate. It’s a literal fact that LeBron tried staying in Cleveland first. You not wanting it to be the case doesn’t make it so. I don’t make the rules regarding how reality works.

And because LeBron didn’t go to the team that he choked to in the playoffs and was a 73 win team. This isn’t rocket science. Don’t let blind fanboyism make you die on this hill.

I will have you know I am a Curry fanboy rather than a Durant fanboy. And I bow to your obvious superior expertise in blind fanboyism. It has been my experience btw that resorting to argumentum ad hominem is not commonly a sign that the party concerned is winning the debate. I am actually amused and pleased to be called a fanboy for defending Durant on an obvious troll/agenda thread started purely to denigrate him, but it would seem likely you are not very familiar with the concept of irony.


As I have said on numerous occasions LeBron was never going to be given what he needed and was his due at the Cavs the first time and was entirely entitled to leave after giving them nearly a decade of his best efforts, and could go wherever he pleased as far as I am concerned as a free agent. I am yet to hear what better options he rejected, but nor should he have taken other than his best option imo. Your ‘literal fact’ is hardly compelling, more a literary fact actually, something you read somewhere and very short on details.

In actual reality Durant was drafted by the Seattle SuperSonics, and perhaps oddly played his rookie year in the city of Seattle, after which the franchise was hi-jacked to OKC. He gave the franchise I believe 8 further years, re-upping once, and was counted as being outclassed by LeBron and the Heatles despite despite facing a superteam with a team of fellow 22 and 23 year olds, with subsequent discussions mainly based on what he and his team-mates became at their peaks rather than what they were then. After brilliant drafting OKC didn’t keep Harden, and made no attempt to improve the coaching, game plan or roster (in particular the spacing) despite improvements obviously being necessary. He also gave OKC 4 more years after a finals loss in which they didn’t win a title, had a career threatening injury the management of which gave every appearance to me of being flawed, but was supposed to stay again because of a WCF loss this time. ?.

Most of all as I said elsewhere he was a Free Agent entitled to go wherever he chose after 9 years. You are perhaps unfamiliar with the meaning of the word free ?. He was a top 5 player who joined another top 5 player as has been commonplace over the last 15 years or so, but a well constructed team had been built around the top 5 player he joined which is actually not illegal or unfair.

Someone trying to state that Lebron and KD's paths are completely different are definitely bias.

"…it ISN’T up for debate. It’s a literal fact that LeBron tried staying in Cleveland first". What does this even mean? KD tried to stay in OKC first, so did AD with New Orleans.

If Lebron wanted to stay in Cleveland his whole career, he could have but he decided to jump to greener pastures where he could create "super teams". This is a fact that is not debatable because it happened several times in his career.

Because his whole point was that LeBron had planned going to Miami for a long time. In reality, him going to Miami wasn’t something he decided on until almost the last minute.

And no, it’s not bias, it’s reality. Sorry I chose to follow it.

[Iwasawitness]

KD played 3 seasons with the Warriors. They made the finals all 3 times. He won two Finals MVPs. The one finals he didn't play, they lost.

The Miami Heat went 2 for 4 with LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.

2x FMVP for LeBron

GSW goes 2 for 3 with KD, Steph, Klay

2x FMVP for KD

Only counts for LeBron though.

Exactly. It’s too funny. And if the Heat crushed everyone like they were anticipated to, would we speak of lebron the same way as Durant?
Nope, because those who hate Durant are Lebron fans and they're up set that KD prevented him from GMing more championships and even exposed Lebron in the process. Lebron cheated the system first and Durant followed. That's the blunt truth.

There was a desired to prop Lebron on a tier of his own and Durant shut that down.... in the finals at that. Jimmy Butler also showed that you could play on the same level in the finals. Regardless, the GM'ing of super teams is Lebron's specialty and he deserves at least as much hate as Durant gets in that regard.

Speaking of Miami Heatles,

2010 - 58 wins and the finals choke
2011 - 46 wins and finals win
2012 - 66 wins and finals win
2013 - 54 wins and slaughtered in finals

That is a failure, considering the expectations and remarkable amount of talent they assembled. At least Durant was a true ceiling raiser. And as we know, 2012 is nearly another loss (the Allen 3 Bosh rebound)

Realgm was talking about the possibility of the Big 3 going undefeated. That's how cheap it was at the time - no less cheap than Durant joining the 73 win Golden State, which everyone should know wasn't a 73 win team (couldn't even win the chip, Steph was never the same since he became hobbled, Rockets and Durant's OKC almost knocked GS out that year etc).

If you’re going to make an entire post littered with complete nonsense, the least you could do is get your years right.

[Iwasawitness]

KD played 3 seasons with the Warriors. They made the finals all 3 times. He won two Finals MVPs. The one finals he didn't play, they lost.

Simple as that. Nobody was even close to the Dubs with KD there

We've seen many superteams on paper crash and burn. That Warriors team was an unstoppable juggernaut that bombed all into submission through jumpshots

So we’re just ignoring Klay getting injured in 2019 too?

[michaelm]

I will have you know I am a Curry fanboy rather than a Durant fanboy. And I bow to your obvious superior expertise in blind fanboyism. It has been my experience btw that resorting to argumentum ad hominem is not commonly a sign that the party concerned is winning the debate. I am actually amused and pleased to be called a fanboy for defending Durant on an obvious troll/agenda thread started purely to denigrate him, but it would seem likely you are not very familiar with the concept of irony.


As I have said on numerous occasions LeBron was never going to be given what he needed and was his due at the Cavs the first time and was entirely entitled to leave after giving them nearly a decade of his best efforts, and could go wherever he pleased as far as I am concerned as a free agent. I am yet to hear what better options he rejected, but nor should he have taken other than his best option imo. Your ‘literal fact’ is hardly compelling, more a literary fact actually, something you read somewhere and very short on details.

In actual reality Durant was drafted by the Seattle SuperSonics, and perhaps oddly played his rookie year in the city of Seattle, after which the franchise was hi-jacked to OKC. He gave the franchise I believe 8 further years, re-upping once, and was counted as being outclassed by LeBron and the Heatles despite despite facing a superteam with a team of fellow 22 and 23 year olds, with subsequent discussions mainly based on what he and his team-mates became at their peaks rather than what they were then. After brilliant drafting OKC didn’t keep Harden, and made no attempt to improve the coaching, game plan or roster (in particular the spacing) despite improvements obviously being necessary. He also gave OKC 4 more years after a finals loss in which they didn’t win a title, had a career threatening injury the management of which gave every appearance to me of being flawed, but was supposed to stay again because of a WCF loss this time. ?.

Most of all as I said elsewhere he was a Free Agent entitled to go wherever he chose after 9 years. You are perhaps unfamiliar with the meaning of the word free ?. He was a top 5 player who joined another top 5 player as has been commonplace over the last 15 years or so, but a well constructed team had been built around the top 5 player he joined which is actually not illegal or unfair.

Someone trying to state that Lebron and KD's paths are completely different are definitely bias.

"…it ISN’T up for debate. It’s a literal fact that LeBron tried staying in Cleveland first". What does this even mean? KD tried to stay in OKC first, so did AD with New Orleans.

If Lebron wanted to stay in Cleveland his whole career, he could have but he decided to jump to greener pastures where he could create "super teams". This is a fact that is not debatable because it happened several times in his career.

Because his whole point was that LeBron had planned going to Miami for a long time. In reality, him going to Miami wasn’t something he decided on until almost the last minute.

And no, it’s not bias, it’s reality. Sorry I chose to follow it.

Except that once again I didn’t initiate anything. The actual starting point was someone pejoratively posting that GSW players had been trying to recruit KD all year.

Whenever LeBron made his final decision to leave the Cavs if I am to read between the lines as you claim to be able to do there had fairly obviously been prior discussion during the season or even before about getting together at the Heat who had cleared cap space, and you yourself have posted about LeBron trying to recruit Chris Bosh to join him. Again I had/have no problem with LeBron forming the Heatles, just the differing standards applied to KD by those of your ilk.

Durant fairly clearly made his eventual decision post the season including the play-offs, cf the Hamptons 5 etc.

[sashaturiaf]

KD played 3 seasons with the Warriors. They made the finals all 3 times. He won two Finals MVPs. The one finals he didn't play, they lost.

Simple as that. Nobody was even close to the Dubs with KD there

We've seen many superteams on paper crash and burn. That Warriors team was an unstoppable juggernaut that bombed all into submission through jumpshots

So we’re just ignoring Klay getting injured in 2019 too?

Stop pretending Klay wasn't a role player by then and barely a positive in any playoff game that mattered.

He was Joe Harris with a bigger role and fuzzy hair.

[michaelm]

Simple as that. Nobody was even close to the Dubs with KD there

We've seen many superteams on paper crash and burn. That Warriors team was an unstoppable juggernaut that bombed all into submission through jumpshots

So we’re just ignoring Klay getting injured in 2019 too?

Stop pretending Klay wasn't a role player by then and barely a positive in any playoff game that mattered.

He was Joe Harris with a bigger role and fuzzy hair.

That was before either of Klay’s serious injuries, the first which was the ACL injury being sustained during that series. He was going pretty well as I recall despite having a hamstring injury. He wasn’t then and never has been a KD/top 5 in the NBA type of player imo though. Looney also had a pectoral injury and hardly played the following season.

No crying from me though, GSW chose to take the risk and they paid the price for having a top heavy roster with no depth.

[tsherkin]

Except if you read this forum after the 2015 title win there were myriad posts including by some posters on a daily basis contending that GSW didn’t really win that litle which was influential on subsequent events, especially the ill advised attempt to win the regular season record.

Yes, but fans are stupid and say dumb things. This is known and fairly SOP.