Masai Was Saved From Himself - All 3 of the Siakam/OG/Fred Trio are Overpaid Right Now

[WaltFrazier]

All three are thriving on their new teams. But it’s also true, we needed to move on.

Lol what?

Houston/Knicks are the 4th/5th best teams in the league. Pacers are 2 games above .500, 2 of them are thriving, the other is treadmilling as usual.

24-19, ECF appearance last year and Pascal as a Pacer is averaging 21/8/4 on a TS% of 61%. But yeah he’s not thriving. Considering he’s the worst shooter of all-time he’s been doing fantastic. Stop letting your feelings get in the way of evaluating basketball players.

The irony of one of the biggest Masai glazers the board has ever seen saying this.

Funny how you didn't respond when they were barely over .500 but only now. But yeah the fact that you think the pacers are "thriving" explains so much about your acceptance and constant defence of the mediocrity we've seen this team thrive at.

At least you're consistent, I'll give you that.

Pacers are 8-2 in last 10, 5th place and rising.

[Scase]

24-19, ECF appearance last year and Pascal as a Pacer is averaging 21/8/4 on a TS% of 61%. But yeah he’s not thriving. Considering he’s the worst shooter of all-time he’s been doing fantastic. Stop letting your feelings get in the way of evaluating basketball players.

The irony of one of the biggest Masai glazers the board has ever seen saying this.

Funny how you didn't respond when they were barely over .500 but only now. But yeah the fact that you think the pacers are "thriving" explains so much about your acceptance and constant defence of the mediocrity we've seen this team thrive at.

At least you're consistent, I'll give you that.

Pacers are 8-2 in last 10, 5th place and rising.

And 6 of those 8 wins were against .500 or worse teams. I'm not saying the Pacers are bad, but they aren't particularly good either, hardly what I'd call "thriving".

[Los_29]

24-19, ECF appearance last year and Pascal as a Pacer is averaging 21/8/4 on a TS% of 61%. But yeah he’s not thriving. Considering he’s the worst shooter of all-time he’s been doing fantastic. Stop letting your feelings get in the way of evaluating basketball players.

The irony of one of the biggest Masai glazers the board has ever seen saying this.

Funny how you didn't respond when they were barely over .500 but only now. But yeah the fact that you think the pacers are "thriving" explains so much about your acceptance and constant defence of the mediocrity we've seen this team thrive at.

At least you're consistent, I'll give you that.

Pacers are 8-2 in last 10, 5th place and rising.

And 5th in the East. Half game back of 4th, 3 games back of the Knicks for 3rd. Aside from the Cavs, it should be competitive for seeding down the stretch.

[WaltFrazier]

If they're all overpaid crap, why did we waste time building around them?

Masai can't be wrong twice in a row, I guess.

Cause it was strange times, with Covid, Tampa and the year after. So you could get tempted to wait a little longer.
FVV, OG and Siakam are not bad players and they were realtivly young still, so hope was they get better.

If that was the thinking, as it seems it was, then they should have kept Norm too. That was the core to keep together and try a bit longer.

[Vampirate]

If they're all overpaid crap, why did we waste time building around them?

Masai can't be wrong twice in a row, I guess.

Cause it was strange times, with Covid, Tampa and the year after. So you could get tempted to wait a little longer.
FVV, OG and Siakam are not bad players and they were realtivly young still, so hope was they get better.

If that was the thinking, as it seems it was, then they should have kept Norm too. That was the core to keep together and try a bit longer.

Issue is, to actually get anywhere, you need a Superstar close to their prime or at least an All NBA half court scorer.

Scoring wise Siakam was good, but not good enough.

[ill-Will03]

Lmao now we arguing about what exactly thriving means? At the end of the day all 3 are better off than we are, and helping their teams win.


I know some of y’all are sick seeing Fred n pascal play so well lol

[Scase]

Lmao now we arguing about what exactly thriving means? At the end of the day all 3 are better off than we are, and helping their teams win.


I know some of y’all are sick seeing Fred n pascal play so well lol

Hardly. I'm happy for OG and I like that Knicks team, I would absolutely trade places with the Rockets right now, the Pacers are easily in the worst situation out of the bunch, Siakam or no Siakam.

Just because you can't separate your biases, doesn't mean others can't. As for arguing about what thriving means, what argument? It's a word in the English language with an objective definition, it was used incorrectly.

[Thaddy]

We have an overpaid IQ and Barrett on our team now instead. Good job Masai.

[RoteSchroder]

Lmao now we arguing about what exactly thriving means? At the end of the day all 3 are better off than we are, and helping their teams win.


I know some of y’all are sick seeing Fred n pascal play so well lol

Hardly. I'm happy for OG and I like that Knicks team, I would absolutely trade places with the Rockets right now, the Pacers are easily in the worst situation out of the bunch, Siakam or no Siakam.

Just because you can't separate your biases, doesn't mean others can't. As for arguing about what thriving means, what argument? It's a word in the English language with an objective definition, it was used incorrectly.

Haliburton post-injury is just not the same and he's locked up for 5 years at 42-55 M/year. Recurrence rates for hamstring injuries are very high. Siakam is turning on the wrong side of 30 and locked up at 42-52 M/year. Turner is turning 29 and looking for a big pay day next year. Both of them are in their prime and it's unlikely they get much better than they are this year.

So Indiana's situation isn't that ideal. They need to win now, but are in a Lowry/DD-type treadmill and need a Kawhi-level trade or to re-design half of their supporting cast.

Houston's in a much better position with youth, picks, no long contracts over 40 M, and a better record than Indiana. The only reason Houston can absorb FVV's contract is cause they got so many players on cheaper contracts. Similar situation with OG..Bridges and Brunson are on bargain contracts.

If I were to rate situations, it would be Houston > Knicks > Toronto > Indiana

[ropjhk]

OG, FVV and Siakam are the type of players you overpay to get your team over to contender status. It's okay to pay them what they are being paid if you have the pieces in place to build a contender.

Having those 3 as your best players doesn't work. Masai waited about a season too late to trade them.

[ontnut]

The irony of one of the biggest Masai glazers the board has ever seen saying this.

Funny how you didn't respond when they were barely over .500 but only now. But yeah the fact that you think the pacers are "thriving" explains so much about your acceptance and constant defence of the mediocrity we've seen this team thrive at.

At least you're consistent, I'll give you that.

Pacers are 8-2 in last 10, 5th place and rising.

And 5th in the East. Half game back of 4th, 3 games back of the Knicks for 3rd. Aside from the Cavs, it should be competitive for seeding down the stretch.

Pascal's doing fine, but I said it even before the Pascal trade - the Pacers aren't that good. I pegged them as the biggest regression candidates this season - their shooting and pace was just not sustainable. Reminded me of the SAC team from a couple years ago. They're a fairly deep team with some obviously talented pieces, but they do not have a #1. They have a couple #2/3s and some decent role players who they need to consolidate into a star. Mathurin is nice, and young, but I don't think he's a great fit with Siakam there. He would be a very nice centrepiece in a star trade. And honestly, I'd be open to moving Hali too.

[Scase]

Pacers are 8-2 in last 10, 5th place and rising.

And 5th in the East. Half game back of 4th, 3 games back of the Knicks for 3rd. Aside from the Cavs, it should be competitive for seeding down the stretch.

Pascal's doing fine, but I said it even before the Pascal trade - the Pacers aren't that good. I pegged them as the biggest regression candidates this season - their shooting and pace was just not sustainable. Reminded me of the SAC team from a couple years ago. They're a fairly deep team with some obviously talented pieces, but they do not have a #1. They have a couple #2/3s and some decent role players who they need to consolidate into a star. Mathurin is nice, and young, but I don't think he's a great fit with Siakam there. He would be a very nice centrepiece in a star trade. And honestly, I'd be open to moving Hali too.

I wonder what Halis value would even be right now, supermax contract, injuries out the wazoo, and generally underperforming. I can't imagine it would be that high.

[SFour]

We have an overpaid IQ and Barrett on our team now instead. Good job Masai.

every big name player on the Raptors is eventually called overpaid....I remember Lowry being called overpaid once he got his big contracts. OG was called overpaid...Knicks showed us what real overpay looks like.

even Barnes is starting to get called overpaid

[Thaddy]

We have an overpaid IQ and Barrett on our team now instead. Good job Masai.

every big name player on the Raptors is eventually called overpaid....I remember Lowry being called overpaid once he got his big contracts. OG was called overpaid...Knicks showed us what real overpay looks like.

even Barnes is starting to get called overpaid

16/6/2 on the following percentages, 38/35/34.

He's played 9/~41 games.

$32,500,000.

He's overpaid bro. At 25 years old he has 0 all star appearances. The chances of a 25+ year old getting their first all star appearance is closer to 0% than 1%. He isn't going to be worth his contract.

Lowry was paid $28,703,704 in 2017-18. He was a 3x all star prior to receiving that contract. How is that the same?

[brownbobcat]

16/6/2 on the following percentages, 38/35/34.

He's played 9/~41 games.

$32,500,000.

He's overpaid bro. At 25 years old he has 0 all star appearances. The chances of a 25+ year old getting their first all star appearance is closer to 0% than 1%. He isn't going to be worth his contract.

Lowry was paid $28,703,704 in 2017-18. He was a 3x all star prior to receiving that contract. How is that the same?

At the time Lowry signed his $48M/4yr, that was about 19% of the cap. IQ is getting something similar over the course of his contract. I think they overpaid by about $2-3M/yr, but I suppose the hope would be that he would get to near All-Star level or higher. Obviously, injuries have put a hamper into things but it makes sense to re-evaluate once he gets back on the floor.

[Scase]

16/6/2 on the following percentages, 38/35/34.

He's played 9/~41 games.

$32,500,000.

He's overpaid bro. At 25 years old he has 0 all star appearances. The chances of a 25+ year old getting their first all star appearance is closer to 0% than 1%. He isn't going to be worth his contract.

Lowry was paid $28,703,704 in 2017-18. He was a 3x all star prior to receiving that contract. How is that the same?

At the time Lowry signed his $48M/4yr, that was about 19% of the cap. IQ is getting something similar over the course of his contract. I think they overpaid by about $2-3M/yr, but I suppose the hope would be that he would get to near All-Star level or higher. Obviously, injuries have put a hamper into things but it makes sense to re-evaluate once he gets back on the floor.

The year prior to that extension, over 79 games, Lowry put up 18/5/7/1.5 on 56.7% TS% on a team that won 48 games scoring 101ppg, with very good defence.
IQ had 38 games with us putting up 18/5/7/0.9 on 56.4% TS% on a team that won 25 games, scoring 112ppg, with bad to average defence.

Maybe you could say that it was an overpay for Lowry, but he had stats to back up the argument. With IQ there isn't any, similar stats but inflated due to pace, no defence comparatively, and seeing similar PGs getting paid less. We signed him to that because we traded for an expiring player, either we give him a solid contract or he tests the market and all we have to show for OG is RJ.

I don't think IQ is an albatross contract, but we bid against ourselves by giving too much leverage to the player.

[brownbobcat]

The year prior to that extension, over 79 games, Lowry put up 18/5/7/1.5 on 56.7% TS% on a team that won 48 games scoring 101ppg, with very good defence.
IQ had 38 games with us putting up 18/5/7/0.9 on 56.4% TS% on a team that won 25 games, scoring 112ppg, with bad to average defence.

Maybe you could say that it was an overpay for Lowry, but he had stats to back up the argument. With IQ there isn't any, similar stats but inflated due to pace, no defence comparatively, and seeing similar PGs getting paid less. We signed him to that because we traded for an expiring player, either we give him a solid contract or he tests the market and all we have to show for OG is RJ.

I don't think IQ is an albatross contract, but we bid against ourselves by giving too much leverage to the player.

Lowry was also 3 years older at that point. I do think they overpaid IQ, but not by a ton - FO does have a bad tendency to overpay guys, but it might honestly be necessary. No matter how much fans want to deny it, there is a premium for playing in Canada - especially for American players. Obviously it looks worse now with the injuries.

[SFour]

We have an overpaid IQ and Barrett on our team now instead. Good job Masai.

every big name player on the Raptors is eventually called overpaid....I remember Lowry being called overpaid once he got his big contracts. OG was called overpaid...Knicks showed us what real overpay looks like.

even Barnes is starting to get called overpaid

16/6/2 on the following percentages, 38/35/34.

He's played 9/~41 games.

$32,500,000.

He's overpaid bro. At 25 years old he has 0 all star appearances. The chances of a 25+ year old getting their first all star appearance is closer to 0% than 1%. He isn't going to be worth his contract.

Lowry was paid $28,703,704 in 2017-18. He was a 3x all star prior to receiving that contract. How is that the same?

every big re-signing the Raptors make is initially called an overpay....it's tradition at this point. Even Kawhi would've received the overpaid treatment at some point had he re-signed.

[aminiaturebuddha]

We have an overpaid IQ and Barrett on our team now instead. Good job Masai.

every big name player on the Raptors is eventually called overpaid....I remember Lowry being called overpaid once he got his big contracts. OG was called overpaid...Knicks showed us what real overpay looks like.

even Barnes is starting to get called overpaid

16/6/2 on the following percentages, 38/35/34.

He's played 9/~41 games.

$32,500,000.

He's overpaid bro. At 25 years old he has 0 all star appearances. The chances of a 25+ year old getting their first all star appearance is closer to 0% than 1%. He isn't going to be worth his contract.

Lowry was paid $28,703,704 in 2017-18. He was a 3x all star prior to receiving that contract. How is that the same?

You're right, that's not at all the same. Lowry was the NBA's 6th highest paid player in 2017-2018. IQ is currently the 47th highest paid player.

[Mr Funk]

Another thread to whine and complain about history that the miserable and overly negative can't get over and move on from.

Get over it already. When the trade rumors thread isn't being sidetracked with this same whining and negativity, apparently we need another thread to continue said whining.