How come none of the young stars have grabbed the torch from the older guys?

[dhsilv2]

I think that will change quickly if the mainstream becomes convinced that Shai is an MVP-level layer leading a possible dynasty.

I think Shai's got 2 things really working against him:

1. Understated personality - which won't necessarily be an issue if he has enough success and looks cool (we should remember that in the classic Nike adds, Jordan wasn't the one doing the talking).

2. Delayed start to stardom. When a guy gets hyped as a superstar right out the gate and has quick success, he becomes popular. When he doesn't really hit until after people have gotten excited about a new set of younger guys, his popularity is often a slow burn growth even after his emergence.

Speaking as a guy who collects basketball cards, I'd say Luka Doncic is still a bigger deal in the hobby than Nikola Jokic because people going nuts hyping Luka as the next great one and so even after Jokic ended up being the guy winning the MVPs, people were still invested in the idea of the prodigy becoming the best player.

The thing with SGA is that he's close enough to American. Lets be real, if you don't have an accent people really move on fast. He's the right size..not giant, not super small. And he's athletic. He really checks the boxes to do well.

Now I get with Jokic he'll never be Lebron. But I mean that in a good and bad way. He'll never have the level of hype but he's also not a guy people dislike. If I wanted a guy to push my mass made product...man he's the obvious choice. But if I've got some edgy new thing...yeah, I'll look elsewhere.

I'll just piggy back on this and say:

After Jordan, the expectation is that you should look like a male supermodel, and nobody in the NBA looks less like a model than Jokic.

Luka adopting a personality at a young clearly inspired by NBA stars helps him relative to Jokic, but still, Fat Luka & Gru-Face are just not going to get the same kind of mainstream acclaim as someone who actually looks sexy.

I think this is a thing that basketball is really going to have to deal with: Basketball became for men's sports what tennis is for women's sport, the sport with the hot athletes. That's all well and good so long as there's reason to expect a correlation between sport ability and attractiveness, which worked so long as a fast-twitch body was indeed the way to be an MVP player.

What we're seeing now though is that while physical talent is nice, an outlier basketball brain trumps all, and that really can't be expected to resonate the same way with people who know nothing about the sport.

Interesting, I'd actually never thought about that. Though to be fair...I still don't really understand what is considered attractive in a man. Beyond I've figured out don't be fat and be tall...but I guess not Jokic tall. But I suppose I can see some of that.

[dhsilv2]

Curry is marketable because kids think they can be just like him when they grow up. He’s small and not super athletic. He even looked like a college kid into his 30s. Believe me if Joker was as popular as you say he would be generating clicks on his own. Algorithms are designed to push content towards audiences that will engage them. The average Joe just doesn’t care enough about a 7 foot introvert from Serbia. It’s not just ESPN we’re talking about. It’s algorithms and AI.

We're not talking ticky tok and insta ho? That's not marketing, that's the ability of people to push their own agenda's. If sports channels talk about likable people, like Jokic. Fans will watch. No, he's not going to get clicks like Lebron...so what? Sportscenter is an hour long. They have plenty of room to talk about others and build up the products they sell.

Remember Nike let Curry slip away because they didn't see him as athletic enough for their brand. These marketing power houses are just lazy.

Dude likeabilty does not equal ratings. Controversy does. There is nothing controversial about Jokic. The reason Bron gets big ratings is because most people despise him.

We were discussing marketability...now we are talking ratings. They aren't the same thing.

[JM00n69]

Bad marketing by media and the league. Also Jokic know's he's so far ahead of everyone else but he won't boast about it. End goal is the title again. SGA is quietly killing it but hasn't had success. Giannis similar to Jokic. Donkic injured/bit of a cry baby. Ja got exposed as a suburban fake. Zion is a fat bitch getting hustled by streetwalkers. Wemby is just a young gentle giraffe and French. Ant showed he's dumb as **** and can't be the face of the league. Tre Young isn't a 1A. Who else is there?

[Big J]

We're not talking ticky tok and insta ho? That's not marketing, that's the ability of people to push their own agenda's. If sports channels talk about likable people, like Jokic. Fans will watch. No, he's not going to get clicks like Lebron...so what? Sportscenter is an hour long. They have plenty of room to talk about others and build up the products they sell.

Remember Nike let Curry slip away because they didn't see him as athletic enough for their brand. These marketing power houses are just lazy.

Dude likeabilty does not equal ratings. Controversy does. There is nothing controversial about Jokic. The reason Bron gets big ratings is because most people despise him.

We were discussing marketability...now we are talking ratings. They aren't the same thing.

The two things go hand in hand. In order for someone to be marketable they need to be able to have the ability to produce ratings.

[Drakeem]

Stuff like this is what convinces me that the NBA really has turned into mens version of Reality TV.

You got the new guard playing some historically great basketball and we're complaining that they're foreigners and that they're media trained.

[Doctor MJ]

The thing with SGA is that he's close enough to American. Lets be real, if you don't have an accent people really move on fast. He's the right size..not giant, not super small. And he's athletic. He really checks the boxes to do well.

Now I get with Jokic he'll never be Lebron. But I mean that in a good and bad way. He'll never have the level of hype but he's also not a guy people dislike. If I wanted a guy to push my mass made product...man he's the obvious choice. But if I've got some edgy new thing...yeah, I'll look elsewhere.

I'll just piggy back on this and say:

After Jordan, the expectation is that you should look like a male supermodel, and nobody in the NBA looks less like a model than Jokic.

Luka adopting a personality at a young clearly inspired by NBA stars helps him relative to Jokic, but still, Fat Luka & Gru-Face are just not going to get the same kind of mainstream acclaim as someone who actually looks sexy.

I think this is a thing that basketball is really going to have to deal with: Basketball became for men's sports what tennis is for women's sport, the sport with the hot athletes. That's all well and good so long as there's reason to expect a correlation between sport ability and attractiveness, which worked so long as a fast-twitch body was indeed the way to be an MVP player.

What we're seeing now though is that while physical talent is nice, an outlier basketball brain trumps all, and that really can't be expected to resonate the same way with people who know nothing about the sport.

Interesting, I'd actually never thought about that. Though to be fair...I still don't really understand what is considered attractive in a man. Beyond I've figured out don't be fat and be tall...but I guess not Jokic tall. But I suppose I can see some of that.

Well let me put it this way: Ever hear the expression "built like a Greek God"? Basically any man who looks like he's in perfect shape with big muscles, etc, is going to look attractive unless he goes overboard with PEDs.

While Jordan had an attractive face, he could have gotten away with a less attractive face given how the rest of his body looked.

Re: tall but not Jokic tall. Ha, well this is a thing of personal interest to me as a 6'9" guy. What I'd say is that when once you become super-big, a lot of times your body just looks awkward to people.

Speaking for myself, this has gotten better as I've aged. I'd be better looking if I lost some weight, but when I first got the height I was extremely skinny with a pimply teenager's face, and no, it didn't strike people as "tall, dark & handsome" despite the fact I was tall and dark. Now that my body has filled out, I actually don't tend to strike people as unusual looking unless they see me standing next to other people.

[Alatan]

If the media needs players to be badboy standup comedians with hollywood looks to be marketable then they failed at their jobs misserably. The whole point of marketing is to promote something that might not be noticed otherwise.
For example: Giannis is the good old rags to riches story with an attractive looking, attractive playing guy that has an interesting nickname. My senile neibghour could market him to the general public.
Jokic is an ex fat kid from a wartorn country that managed to will himself to greatness in a field that nobody would expect hin to dominate thanks to his incredible feel for the game and elite hand-eye coordination. There are tons of introverted, fat kids in the US that he could become a rolemodel if marketed correctly.
Its obvious that the media doesnt want to market them for some reason. But the lack of "marketability" is not one of them.

Serbia isn't wartorn country just like today Russia isn't wartorn country.

Of course it is. Serbia has been through 2 significant wars in very recent history. Thats something that seriously hampers the development opportunities of people that had to live through them and after them.

[Black star]

I think that will change quickly if the mainstream becomes convinced that Shai is an MVP-level layer leading a possible dynasty.

I think Shai's got 2 things really working against him:

1. Understated personality - which won't necessarily be an issue if he has enough success and looks cool (we should remember that in the classic Nike adds, Jordan wasn't the one doing the talking).

2. Delayed start to stardom. When a guy gets hyped as a superstar right out the gate and has quick success, he becomes popular. When he doesn't really hit until after people have gotten excited about a new set of younger guys, his popularity is often a slow burn growth even after his emergence.

Speaking as a guy who collects basketball cards, I'd say Luka Doncic is still a bigger deal in the hobby than Nikola Jokic because people going nuts hyping Luka as the next great one and so even after Jokic ended up being the guy winning the MVPs, people were still invested in the idea of the prodigy becoming the best player.

The thing with SGA is that he's close enough to American. Lets be real, if you don't have an accent people really move on fast. He's the right size..not giant, not super small. And he's athletic. He really checks the boxes to do well.

Now I get with Jokic he'll never be Lebron. But I mean that in a good and bad way. He'll never have the level of hype but he's also not a guy people dislike. If I wanted a guy to push my mass made product...man he's the obvious choice. But if I've got some edgy new thing...yeah, I'll look elsewhere.

I'll just piggy back on this and say:

After Jordan, the expectation is that you should look like a male supermodel, and nobody in the NBA looks less like a model than Jokic.

Luka adopting a personality at a young clearly inspired by NBA stars helps him relative to Jokic, but still, Fat Luka & Gru-Face are just not going to get the same kind of mainstream acclaim as someone who actually looks sexy.

I think this is a thing that basketball is really going to have to deal with: Basketball became for men's sports what tennis is for women's sport, the sport with the hot athletes. That's all well and good so long as there's reason to expect a correlation between sport ability and attractiveness, which worked so long as a fast-twitch body was indeed the way to be an MVP player.

What we're seeing now though is that while physical talent is nice, an outlier basketball brain trumps all, and that really can't be expected to resonate the same way with people who know nothing about the sport.

There is some truth to this but it's not just a looks thing. Shaq was the 2nd biggest star of the 2000s after Kobe and that guy would never be mistaken for a supermodel. Lebron is the biggest star since Jordan and he's not a supermodel type either he's just in good shape. It's not so simple as looks plus physical ability equals superstar or you would see Tatum having an easier time breaking through.

What people resonate with on the court is the super human aspect of it all. Shaq breaking backboards while double teamed. Lebron being that big and that fast at the same time like a human tiger. These guys look like super heroes out there and watching them play can capture that same feeling of watching something that can't be possible. It captures the imagination.

The biggest reason Jokic is probably never going break through is because he doesn't look jacked and stylistically he plays like the best version of the middle aged dad at the y, unstoppable below the rim post game who can also shoot and is a wizard of passing. In football terms he is stylistically like an offensive lineman, and people wonder why he isn't being marketed like the wide receivers and quarter backs.

[dhsilv2]

Dude likeabilty does not equal ratings. Controversy does. There is nothing controversial about Jokic. The reason Bron gets big ratings is because most people despise him.

We were discussing marketability...now we are talking ratings. They aren't the same thing.

The two things go hand in hand. In order for someone to be marketable they need to be able to have the ability to produce ratings.

Their is correlation. But they aren't the same thing at all. Jokic might not get the most "buzz" but he's also someone you can absolutely sell your product with and know you're not upsetting or being off putting to others. And that's HUGE.

[TheGeneral99]

WTF?

Jokic is 29 years old and is by far the best player in the league and will very likely be a top 10 and even top 5 player of all time when it's all said and done.

Doncic is just 25 years old and has already led his team to the finals...similar to what Lebron did with the Cavs in the mid-2000s. He is also someone with a ton of miles left that has not even reached his prime.

Shai is just 26 years old and is a top 5 player who is leading an up and coming Thunder team.

Giannis is 30 years old and still an absolute monster.

Even a guy like Tatum is only 26 years old.

All these guys will be dominating the league for the next 5-10 years.

How the hell has the torch not been passed? It clearly has since Steph won his last title in 2022. Since then we've seen teams like Denver win, Boston win, and Dallas advancing to the finals.

[TheGeneral99]

Bad marketing by media and the league. Also Jokic know's he's so far ahead of everyone else but he won't boast about it. End goal is the title again. SGA is quietly killing it but hasn't had success. Giannis similar to Jokic. Donkic injured/bit of a cry baby. Ja got exposed as a suburban fake. Zion is a fat bitch getting hustled by streetwalkers. Wemby is just a young gentle giraffe and French. Ant showed he's dumb as **** and can't be the face of the league. Tre Young isn't a 1A. Who else is there?

I think it will change.

If Jokic wins his 2nd ring he instantly becomes a top 10 player of all-time and huge buzz will start surrounding him.

The Thunder are incredibly young and only became a good team last year...they remind me the Thunder back in 2010-2011.

Not sure how Giannis is similar to Jokic...Jokic does not rely on his athleticism like Giannis...he will be amazing for a long time.

[tbhawksfan1]

Market size is such an evident big factor in this. Look at the merc sales... ESPN is a joke as far as sports but they know their marketing and their markets

[Lakers In 5]

SGA leads the league in PPG.

Jokic is a multi time MVP

Doncic/Brunson/Tatum all lead good teams

What else do you want? For Maxey to say Curry is a bitch

You don't need to call anyone names to be the face of the league. IE Stephen Curry.

Issue is all those guys you mentioned have bland AF personalities / Foreigners. And yes, being American matters when it comes to marketability within the US. Like I've said before, if the only reason you're in the country is because an NBA team drafted you, casuals won't care about you. Take Jokic for example, he can't leave the country fast enough when the season ends. People notice things like that.

Correct, just look at Shohei Ohtani and how terribly he is marketed by the MLB for instance.

Oh, wait.

[meekrab]

No clue how you can watch a guy like Giannis or Jokic play basketball and think they aren’t trying to grab it ALL. Those dudes are hungry, and they’re title winners; and at this point they’re straight up better than the old guys.

Giannis and Jokic ARE old guys they're both in their age 30 season

[JM00n69]

Bad marketing by media and the league. Also Jokic know's he's so far ahead of everyone else but he won't boast about it. End goal is the title again. SGA is quietly killing it but hasn't had success. Giannis similar to Jokic. Donkic injured/bit of a cry baby. Ja got exposed as a suburban fake. Zion is a fat bitch getting hustled by streetwalkers. Wemby is just a young gentle giraffe and French. Ant showed he's dumb as **** and can't be the face of the league. Tre Young isn't a 1A. Who else is there?

I think it will change.

If Jokic wins his 2nd ring he instantly becomes a top 10 player of all-time and huge buzz will start surrounding him.

The Thunder are incredibly young and only became a good team last year...they remind me the Thunder back in 2010-2011.

Not sure how Giannis is similar to Jokic...Jokic does not rely on his athleticism like Giannis...he will be amazing for a long time.

Giannis similar as in he's been a top 5 player last 5 years but is also very laid back. Small market team/low profile.

[OldSchoolNoBull]

No clue how you can watch a guy like Giannis or Jokic play basketball and think they aren’t trying to grab it ALL. Those dudes are hungry, and they’re title winners; and at this point they’re straight up better than the old guys.

Giannis and Jokic ARE old guys they're both in their age 30 season

The old guys being referenced are the previous generation - LeBron, Steph, Durant, CP3, Harden, Kawhi, Jimmy, etc. - guys who are beginning to be on the way out.

[Big J]

We were discussing marketability...now we are talking ratings. They aren't the same thing.

The two things go hand in hand. In order for someone to be marketable they need to be able to have the ability to produce ratings.

Their is correlation. But they aren't the same thing at all. Jokic might not get the most "buzz" but he's also someone you can absolutely sell your product with and know you're not upsetting or being off putting to others. And that's HUGE.

Lol, just stop man. No kid is bragging because they are wearing the new Jokic 7s.

[VFX]

I kind of love the fact that the best players in the league aren't being talked about ad nauseam like Lebron and Curry were incessantly. Goes to show you how inflated media was with "marketability".

Who gives af if casuals don't get to pretend like they watch 90% of the rest of the league. If anything, its telling that for a majority of people it has absolutely nothing to do with ball at face value.

Jokic, Giannis, and SGA ruling the league and all of a sudden nobody is impressed should tell you something. Being "American" has nothing to do with it. If it does, then you should just stick to watching reality TV or politics because it isnt about watching quality ball.

[dhsilv2]

The two things go hand in hand. In order for someone to be marketable they need to be able to have the ability to produce ratings.

Their is correlation. But they aren't the same thing at all. Jokic might not get the most "buzz" but he's also someone you can absolutely sell your product with and know you're not upsetting or being off putting to others. And that's HUGE.

Lol, just stop man. No kid is bragging because they are wearing the new Jokic 7s.

Much like your understanding of leadership, this seems another area you don't get.

Jokic is a perfect guy to market the NBA as a product. He's also a great guy to market products that have mass appeal. No, he doesn't have the look of the athletes that Nike wants to market to. Oh well...that only leaves a few trillion dollars of industries left for him.

[Kiss of Death]

The NBA media needs to stop incessantly talking about the older guys to start.
It's Lebron-Lebron-Lebron! Curry-Curry-Curry! 24/7/365.
Remember the Bronny Invitational? (the 2024 draft and Summer League)
All of the best teams in league record wise are younger player led teams.
Someone needs to alert the NBA media.