Bucks pivot to Lavine with Detroit

[Texas Chuck]

Bucks trade: Middleton, Portis, Pat C/31 1st(top 1)
Bucks get LaVine(and Craig if they can stay under 2nd apron)

Bulls trade: LaVine(Craig?)
Bulls get: THJ/Portis/Pat C/31 MIL 1st(top 1)

Pistons trade: THJ
Pistons get: Middleton

Pistons upgrade for just cap space.
Bulls get a 1st, a bunch of salary relief and could probably flip Portis for a bit more value.
Bucks get their 3rd star. Not as ideal as Butler, but he should be at this level the whole contract

[tmorgan]

Nah. Not an upgrade as of the present. Ya know, Timmy actually plays.

And Khris has a 34 mil PO next year that he’d be insane not to use. So he might force Beasley to leave due to budget. You can argue Middleton brings more than Timmy. But you definitely can’t argue he brings more than Beasley. Malik is straight killing it. Keeping him is a priority.

[Texas Chuck]

So I've learned BI isn't an upgrade on THJ and now Middleton isn't. Guess Dallas didn't get as good of a deal on that THJ/Grimes swap as I thought....

I get the injury concerns, but Middleton is still a much better player than Timmy

[Godaddycurse]

bulls should do this even without pistons. maybe pay someone to take pat C or jevon carter to stay under cap

[Kalamazoo317]

I guess the question is, what's the goal in this move? It hurts Detroit's financial flexibility next year (which could very well lose us Beasley), it's a short-term (2 year) play (and we're not contending in that timeframe), and it's hard to believe Middleton will even be consistently available during that period due to his injury history.
The value is absolutely there for Detroit. The direction is questionable.

[theBigLip]

So I've learned BI isn't an upgrade on THJ and now Middleton isn't. Guess Dallas didn't get as good of a deal on that THJ/Grimes swap as I thought....

I get the injury concerns, but Middleton is still a much better player than Timmy

It’s not just if he can play better. Contracts matter. Games played matter. Negative value contracts with the new CBA are toxic to smart GMs. Some of them are still slow to the game. But would you seriously swap THJ and his expiring deal to pay for Middleton this year and next for twice the cost per year? I wouldn’t.

[Texas Chuck]

Oh I understand contracts matter.... I don't have Middleton as toxic.

But sounds like Pistons fans don't think he's better than Timmy or at least not enough to tie up the cap space on which is definitely fair.

so godaddy is right again, should have left Detroit out.

[mlloyd10]

Did i just read that Middleton isn't an upgrade over Beas....WTF

[Bernman]

Nah. Not an upgrade as of the present. Ya know, Timmy actually plays.

And Khris has a 34 mil PO next year that he’d be insane not to use. So he might force Beasley to leave due to budget. You can argue Middleton brings more than Timmy. But you definitely can’t argue he brings more than Beasley. Malik is straight killing it. Keeping him is a priority.

LOL you act like these players weren't on the same team last year & Beasley was virtually unplayable in the playoffs while Middleton was a star.

Speaking of the playoffs, he almost always plays then. Has missed 1 playoff series in his career. In the regular season his efficiency stats have been awesome each of the last 2 seasons when he's supposedly fallen off a cliff. They just take it easy w/ him.

This board ought to ban Middleton trade proposals because you're going to hear some really dumb s**t otherwise. But hey, they tell you there's no sense in the Bucks in trading him because many from the outside are ignorant AF when it comes to this guy.

[Snakebites]

We're having our first strong half season in a very long time and some Piston fans are a little trigger shy in terms of trading away rotation players. Understandable but I don't agree. I'd take this deal. It makes us better this year.

[pipfan]

Bulls fan here-yes.
We could move Portis too, and get more value

Lavine's playing GREAT ball this year, and someone should get him as an upgrade now

[tmorgan]

Did i just read that Middleton isn't an upgrade over Beas....WTF

This year? No, he’s not.

He’s played 18 games and not particularly well.

Honestly, some of you need to understand that players just get old and break down. Milwaukee wouldn’t even consider trading Middleton if he was his former self, a playoff 2nd scorer of high quality that played solid defense.

He’s not that guy any more. He hasn’t played a lot games or a lot of minutes in three years now. Two years of 15 ppg and now even less. And sure, I do believe Milwaukee has tried to keep him healthy for the playoffs — but guess what, that’s not what Detroit needs. They need help getting there.

Now take a look at what Beasley has done this year in Detroit and tell me Khris is an upgrade. I don’t care about last year.

But keep up the used car salesman routine, maybe someone will bite. But that’s a very expensive model that seems to spend a lot of time in the shop.

[slos]

It doesn’t feel like Milwaukee owes a 2031 FRP here. All things considered I have Middleton and LaVine at equal value.

[cgf]

Value wise, I get it, but don’t feel like this is something the bulls FO would actually go for. I think they’re more likely to spend a pick (or two) on Zion than moving Zach for one :-/

[cgf]

It doesn’t feel like Milwaukee owes a 2031 FRP here. All things considered I have Middleton and LaVine at equal value.

Disagree, if anything I feel like they owe more than they are giving. Zach moves a lot better than Middleton nowadays, and he’s long been the better shooter, even if he’s not as smart and paid more.

[cgf]

I do still wonder what would’ve been if we had gone for Caruso & Lavine last season before paying up for Kessler when iHart left us, instead of Bogey & Burks before Bridges & Towns when we lost IH.

I still think that Lavine opted for surgery in part as a protest to not getting traded, so if he had been traded maybe he wouldn’t have gotten it and maybe he wouldn’t be moving as well as he is right now. But on paper, there would be great defensive depth & shooting around that offensive trio, and we should have a couple more picks left than we do atm.

Robinson | Kessler | Achiuwa
Randle
Anunoby | Hart
Lavine | Caruso
Brunson | McBride

McBride - Lavine - OG - Randle - Mitch/Walker
Brunson - Caruso - Hart - OG - Mitch/Walker

[jayjaysee]

Detroit fans didn’t like the reunion a while ago and still don’t. I still like it for them on the court and he expires at the right time.

For the larger trade, I think Milwaukee can put top 6ish protection on that first. I don’t see who is offering that kind of value for LaVine, even with his great counting stat season.

[islandboy53]

I tend to agree that Detroit won't want to give up salary flexibility next year for player who has real concerns around his recent injury history and would appear to be, just now at least, a modest upgrade (Middleton is generating 12.6 pts/5 reb/4 ass'ts in 24 minutes on .480/.377/.833 versus THJ's 11/2/1.5 in 28 minutes on .421/.379/.821)

Leaving that debate aside, more pieces need to be in play to make this work. Detroit needs to send out a small salary, like Moore, to Milwaukee. On their side, Chicago needs to waive 2 players, so should be able to send Craig to Milwaukee.

[ChettheJet]

The pick being so far out could be #2 or if there's expansion by then #32.

Give the Bulls enough warning to maybe find a package to send Pat C and Jevon Carter for $15M to a contender that needs bench scoring for one young guy that hasn't measured up or at least a contributor. I don't see Portis opting in at $13M with the Bulls if he finds someplace that gives him 2 years and an option for $30M. Then as mentioned the Bulls could find him a contender.

Don't want PatC to put one of their guards on the bench, don't need THJ to take minutes from Buzelis and Phillips

Bulls are in with the pick but need to reroute the rest

[GreekAlex]

Middleton is more likely to retire (injuries) or have to accept a MLE deal to be a viable signing for a contender than he is to be a useful player for Detroit beyond the 1.5 seasons left on his current deal.