2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Y’all hated this Bam too, I was here, I remember.

Not a damn soul was hating on Bam that stretch, he was on the NBA's MVP ladder at Number 8 if I'm not mistaken.

Joakim Noah finished top 5 in MVP voting and actually won DPOY (much higher IQ/passing skills than Bam} and I don't think anyone considered him a franchise player and he like Bam got trashed by skilled big men in the playoffs (no shame getting owned by stronger/more skilled players) I don't think he ever got max money either (could be wrong)

If you are not a threat to single handedly win games and carry a team on offense (scoring/playmaking) your not a elite player no matter how good you are on defense or doing the little things. No one fears Bams middies/open dunks most the time him scoring does very little to impact the game. He's a super role player and a great piece to have if he were making Tyler Herro type money.

The guy does not have the natural tools (e.g getting to a spot/natural creativity/touch/soft hands) to be a elite player despite insane physical gifts. Giving max money to player who consistently can't take over a game offensively is suicide. Bams a good player clearly and clearly someone you would love playing with but that's reality they overpaid for him.

Noah’s peak season is basically Bams worst year of his career

13-11-5 is literally this dudes peak and he was a 1 hit wonder DPOY like Marcus Smart although I can say he actually deserved it and Smart didn’t. Only a 2 time all star, only 3 all defense teams, and his high MVP finish was based on narratives because he helped the Bulls to a decent 48-34 record without Rose.

You all love to complain about Bam struggling to score but then gas up these dudes that are nowhere near the scorer he is lol it’s so ironic.

And again, he’s not making $50M for another 2 seasons when he will undoubtedly be better. If you’re saying he’s currently overpaid based on what he’s done in the league up until this point, well that’s just fuxkin insane

[Pokuokic]

I was watching Edey and Jackson Jr do some serious damage last night as a massive front court. No reason we can’t have the same effect here. Grizzlies just have better pieces around those guys. We keep playing a guard who’s like 2/100 from 3

Jackson can put the ball on the floor and draw fouls and can get to almost any spot he wants with skills/size/handles he did the same last year when everyone was injured, he also has a legit floater/post up game the Heat do not have that (maybe Ware can have it eventually). It's a extremely rare skill set for a guy with old school PF size

[Pokuokic]

Not a damn soul was hating on Bam that stretch, he was on the NBA's MVP ladder at Number 8 if I'm not mistaken.

Joakim Noah finished top 5 in MVP voting and actually won DPOY (much higher IQ/passing skills than Bam} and I don't think anyone considered him a franchise player and he like Bam got trashed by skilled big men in the playoffs (no shame getting owned by stronger/more skilled players) I don't think he ever got max money either (could be wrong)

If you are not a threat to single handedly win games and carry a team on offense (scoring/playmaking) your not a elite player no matter how good you are on defense or doing the little things. No one fears Bams middies/open dunks most the time him scoring does very little to impact the game. He's a super role player and a great piece to have if he were making Tyler Herro type money.

The guy does not have the natural tools (e.g getting to a spot/natural creativity/touch/soft hands) to be a elite player despite insane physical gifts. Giving max money to player who consistently can't take over a game offensively is suicide. Bams a good player clearly and clearly someone you would love playing with but that's reality they overpaid for him.

Noah’s peak season is basically Bams worst year of his career

13-11-5 is literally this dudes peak and he was a 1 hit wonder DPOY like Marcus Smart although I can say he actually deserved it and Smart didn’t. Only a 2 time all star, only 3 all defense teams, and his high MVP finish was based on narratives because he helped the Bulls to a decent 48-34 record without Rose.

You all love to complain about Bam struggling to score but then gas up these dudes that are nowhere near the scorer he is lol it’s so ironic.

And again, he’s not making $50M for another 2 seasons when he will undoubtedly be better. If you’re saying he’s currently overpaid based on what he’s done in the league up until this point, well that’s just fuxkin insane

Hard to compare scoring stats imo different eras, no one is gassing Noah the fact was he was top 5MVP something Bam has never sniffed.

[contract]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Y’all hated this Bam too, I was here, I remember.

Not a damn soul was hating on Bam that stretch, he was on the NBA's MVP ladder at Number 8 if I'm not mistaken.

Joakim Noah finished top 5 in MVP voting and actually won DPOY (much higher IQ/passing skills than Bam} and I don't think anyone considered him a franchise player and he like Bam got trashed by skilled big men in the playoffs (no shame getting owned by stronger/more skilled players) I don't think he ever got max money either (could be wrong)

If you are not a threat to single handedly win games and carry a team on offense (scoring/playmaking) your not a elite player no matter how good you are on defense or doing the little things. No one fears Bams middies/open dunks most the time him scoring does very little to impact the game. He's a super role player and a great piece to have if he were making Tyler Herro type money.

The guy does not have the natural tools (e.g getting to a spot/natural creativity/touch/soft hands) to be a elite player despite insane physical gifts. Giving max money to player who consistently can't take over a game offensively is suicide. Bams a good player clearly and clearly someone you would love playing with but that's reality they overpaid for him.

You all need to quit throwing around the term max salary. It doesn't mean anything.

Bam: $34,848,340

Curry: $55,761,216 <--- actual max money

Bam's max is not the NBA max. Not by a long shot.

In two years when Bam's salary jumps to $48 million, Curry will be earning $62 million.

Forget the terms max contract, max salary, and max money. All they do is confuse fans.

[DayofMourning]

I was watching Edey and Jackson Jr do some serious damage last night as a massive front court. No reason we can’t have the same effect here. Grizzlies just have better pieces around those guys. We keep playing a guard who’s like 2/100 from 3

Flagg or Harper will help.

Play Terry 2025!

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

Reposting the truth about Bams contract because clearly people need to read it and educate themselves on it.

[Beenie]

I was watching Edey and Jackson Jr do some serious damage last night as a massive front court. No reason we can’t have the same effect here. Grizzlies just have better pieces around those guys. We keep playing a guard who’s like 2/100 from 3

Flagg or Harper will help.

Play Terry 2025!

Can Harper shoot?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Joakim Noah finished top 5 in MVP voting and actually won DPOY (much higher IQ/passing skills than Bam} and I don't think anyone considered him a franchise player and he like Bam got trashed by skilled big men in the playoffs (no shame getting owned by stronger/more skilled players) I don't think he ever got max money either (could be wrong)

If you are not a threat to single handedly win games and carry a team on offense (scoring/playmaking) your not a elite player no matter how good you are on defense or doing the little things. No one fears Bams middies/open dunks most the time him scoring does very little to impact the game. He's a super role player and a great piece to have if he were making Tyler Herro type money.

The guy does not have the natural tools (e.g getting to a spot/natural creativity/touch/soft hands) to be a elite player despite insane physical gifts. Giving max money to player who consistently can't take over a game offensively is suicide. Bams a good player clearly and clearly someone you would love playing with but that's reality they overpaid for him.

Noah’s peak season is basically Bams worst year of his career

13-11-5 is literally this dudes peak and he was a 1 hit wonder DPOY like Marcus Smart although I can say he actually deserved it and Smart didn’t. Only a 2 time all star, only 3 all defense teams, and his high MVP finish was based on narratives because he helped the Bulls to a decent 48-34 record without Rose.

You all love to complain about Bam struggling to score but then gas up these dudes that are nowhere near the scorer he is lol it’s so ironic.

And again, he’s not making $50M for another 2 seasons when he will undoubtedly be better. If you’re saying he’s currently overpaid based on what he’s done in the league up until this point, well that’s just fuxkin insane

Hard to compare scoring stats imo different eras, no one is gassing Noah the fact was he was top 5MVP something Bam has never sniffed.

Sure but I mean that holds no weight. Marcus Smart won DPOY, something LeBron never won. Does that mean he’s a better defender than peak LeBron?

[Pokuokic]

Noah’s peak season is basically Bams worst year of his career

13-11-5 is literally this dudes peak and he was a 1 hit wonder DPOY like Marcus Smart although I can say he actually deserved it and Smart didn’t. Only a 2 time all star, only 3 all defense teams, and his high MVP finish was based on narratives because he helped the Bulls to a decent 48-34 record without Rose.

You all love to complain about Bam struggling to score but then gas up these dudes that are nowhere near the scorer he is lol it’s so ironic.

And again, he’s not making $50M for another 2 seasons when he will undoubtedly be better. If you’re saying he’s currently overpaid based on what he’s done in the league up until this point, well that’s just fuxkin insane

Hard to compare scoring stats imo different eras, no one is gassing Noah the fact was he was top 5MVP something Bam has never sniffed.

Sure but I mean that holds no weight. Marcus Smart won DPOY, something LeBron never won. Does that mean he’s a better defender than peak LeBron?

Marcus Smart was not a top 5.MVP candidate when he won it, I have never thought of Smart as a good defender he's to low IQ and does a lot of fake hustle plays (dividing on the floor for no reason) which really fool people. Noah like Bam was a elite defender until he came up against a larger big with skills.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Hard to compare scoring stats imo different eras, no one is gassing Noah the fact was he was top 5MVP something Bam has never sniffed.

Sure but I mean that holds no weight. Marcus Smart won DPOY, something LeBron never won. Does that mean he’s a better defender than peak LeBron?

Marcus Smart was not a top 5.MVP candidate when he won it, I have never thought of Smart as a good defender he's to low IQ and does a lot of fake hustle plays (dividing on the floor for no reason) which really fool people. Noah like Bam was a elite defender until he came up against a larger big with skills.

Ask Embiid about that

[DayofMourning]

I was watching Edey and Jackson Jr do some serious damage last night as a massive front court. No reason we can’t have the same effect here. Grizzlies just have better pieces around those guys. We keep playing a guard who’s like 2/100 from 3

Flagg or Harper will help.

Play Terry 2025!

Can Harper shoot?

Sure. From what Ive seen, hes capable from anywhere. Nice change of pace to get open too.

Hes the focal point of every defense right now. Will be better with spacing.

[batterybro42]

Not a damn soul was hating on Bam that stretch, he was on the NBA's MVP ladder at Number 8 if I'm not mistaken.

Joakim Noah finished top 5 in MVP voting and actually won DPOY (much higher IQ/passing skills than Bam} and I don't think anyone considered him a franchise player and he like Bam got trashed by skilled big men in the playoffs (no shame getting owned by stronger/more skilled players) I don't think he ever got max money either (could be wrong)

If you are not a threat to single handedly win games and carry a team on offense (scoring/playmaking) your not a elite player no matter how good you are on defense or doing the little things. No one fears Bams middies/open dunks most the time him scoring does very little to impact the game. He's a super role player and a great piece to have if he were making Tyler Herro type money.

The guy does not have the natural tools (e.g getting to a spot/natural creativity/touch/soft hands) to be a elite player despite insane physical gifts. Giving max money to player who consistently can't take over a game offensively is suicide. Bams a good player clearly and clearly someone you would love playing with but that's reality they overpaid for him.

Noah’s peak season is basically Bams worst year of his career

13-11-5 is literally this dudes peak and he was a 1 hit wonder DPOY like Marcus Smart although I can say he actually deserved it and Smart didn’t. Only a 2 time all star, only 3 all defense teams, and his high MVP finish was based on narratives because he helped the Bulls to a decent 48-34 record without Rose.

You all love to complain about Bam struggling to score but then gas up these dudes that are nowhere near the scorer he is lol it’s so ironic.

And again, he’s not making $50M for another 2 seasons when he will undoubtedly be better. If you’re saying he’s currently overpaid based on what he’s done in the league up until this point, well that’s just fuxkin insane

Noah played in a different league and split the precious try hard dunk man points with Taj Gibson and Carlos Boozer at times

Noah also had a extremely steep drop off as a player despite being a hard working high character guy

The commonality is if you aren’t a true 5 and can’t shoot your shelf life isn’t great in this league.

The time to move Bam will be this offseason, and unless there is some crazy progression in the 2nd half of the season this is the time to do it. I can almost promise you that Bam never sees a max again after his current one. Not too many people going to be lining up to pay the Mercedes Benz of Joel Anthony’s 60+ million dollars

Bam has been the play finisher on the NBA team with the best Coach in the league. To not even consider that it has inflated his offensive production is kinda bold. Now those opportunities have gone elsewhere and you got a max guy averaging 15 a night on meh efficiency

[Rapaz]

Jimmy Butler will lose this. He already has. No matter what happens from here — even if he successfully pouts his way to Phoenix before the NBA’s Feb. 6 trade deadline — he is the loser in this Miami Heat mess of his own doing.

His legacy with the Heat is blown apart, beyond repair without at least unexpected contrition from him that his behavior has been stunningly unprofessional and a flat betrayal of the team paying him $48,798,677 this season. (For those without a calculator, that’s just more than $595,000 per game Butler is being paid to be the professional he has lately failed miserably to be.)

His seven-game suspension followed by a more recent two-game suspension has cost him just more than $3 million thus far (It’s not prorated by game). Poor fella. Should we start a GoFundMe page? I would suggest he might need to get a second job to make ends meet, but he’s already taken on one:

Ruining this Heat season, along with his goodwill and good name in South Florida. At that job, he’s been great.

Spare me that this isn’t about money, by the way. In sports it always is.

***

Butler, once he knew Miami would not extend his contract, might have decided to be a pro, understand the business decision was rooted in his age and play harder than ever to prove Riley wrong and display his skills for the rest of the league.

Instead he decided to quit.

He quit on the Heat, on his teammates, on coach Erik Spoelstra, on Riley ... and on the fans. He quit on the integrity of the game.

***

Butler’s Heat legacy could have been as a beloved player in that second tier below Dwyane Wade. He led Miami to two NBA Finals and a conference final his first five seasons. Made a couple of All-Star teams. He was fun, quirky. Jimmy Buckets. Playoff Jimmy.

Then he became Jim-ME at the sour end as he turned his back on everything but his own interests in the middle of a season.

This ugliest of sports divorces appears irreparable now because hurt and pride are involved and because Butler and Riley are alpha males who have dug in deep and won’t blink.

Butler is trying to flex the NBA era of player empowerment to get what he wants and go where he wants — everything else including his own team in the heart of its season be damned. Riley has accrued and earned his power in a lifetime given to this league and will deploy it like an arsenal as needed.

***

TNT’s Kenny Smith was at that loss in Portland and said: “[Butler’s behavior] is unprofessional. When you miss things you’re supposed to be at and you get paid to be at, there’s no other word for it.”

The Heat should trade Butler for the best deal it can get, with little regard for making the player happy by sending him to Phoenix. Khris Middleton and a draft pick from Milwaukee? Done. Heck, at this point, trading him to Washington or Utah or some other dregs of a team would have a note of poetic justice to it.

The priority is to cut losses and trade the man who has soured the Heat locker room and this season.

Jimmy Butler has made it childishly clear he wants out.

Miami — team, city and fans — should aggressively want the same.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/greg-cote/article299095165.html

[Vertical Limit]

I wanted Butler traded last season, and still want him traded. With that said, i dont care how stupid he gets, we are NOT going to desperately remove him from the roster with a bad trade that sets us back in 2026 offseason. We can be aggressive in our search for 2025, 2026 expirings. We should NOT be attaching any picks and/or taking in bad long term contracts just so that he isnt moping on our bench.

Suspend him with pay the rest of the season if he doesnt wish to play, i dont care. That contract number needs to expire before 2026, however way possible through trade or contract buyout

[greg4012]

Love to see Bam stans versus not so much stans going at it

at the end of the day we should all be Heat stans.

Not sure how I'm a Bam stan just bc I'm not eagerly trying to trade Bam at his lowest value as soon as Miami invested in drafting and developing a super unique 3&D center prospect (Adam Simon's description, not mine) that is the theoretical perfect fit to size up and run with Bam.

It's honestly unclear to me how some can claim to be Heat fans if the Heat showing their intention to pair these 2 together and getting positive signals on this front is immediately followed by loud push to get rid of Bam bc we have Ware. Like do we think this pairing will look better on day 1 or in year 2? Do we think the rookie is a finished product? Do we think Bam adapting to new roles is going to be immediately in its best form?

Help me out here, guys. I def feel a disconnect between my sentiment and the common fan sentiment. Interestingly, I feel completely aligned with what the actual Heat organization has in mind.

[greg4012]

Hahaha exactly what I said to you earlier, posters who can have an educated discussion are few and far between and they ignore the facts you bring and just spout a bunch of fuxkin nonsense. Dude literally just talked out of his ass for 8 paragraphs then you have some other Bam haters who will ride that coat tails of that BS

I care about the Miami Heat. I enjoy diving into this stuff. I take pride in having developed some insight from a lifetime of going to and watching games. Dude brings up concerns about fit with Bam and Ware in modern nba. I provide elaborate, research breakdown with empirical evidence refuting his concerns and misplaced counters and thus highlighting paths to how the offense can evolve to be complementary and productive for both.

Dude turns to the same tired distract, deflect and ALWAYS skirt accountability and pretends this is a discussion as to if Bam is AD paired with all the typical scary boy hits.

Clowns need to be told they’re clowns even if they pretend to not hear/see it.

Big dog you provided a bunch of out of context data and tried to make a case that AD and Bam have similar perimeter skills, and have gone to personal attacks on a Miami Heat message board over it.

I can promise you this, not thinking Bam is worth 60 million dollars isn’t going to have Pat Riley show up at your door and revoke your Heat fan status, it isn’t that deep

Convenient fabrications of truth and hyperbole aside, what percentage of the cap do you believe a DPOY level player that CAN do a lot of foundational and complementary stuff on offense and can serve as a #3 scorer on a well-structured roster is worth. Talk percentage of salary cap unless you're planning to fork over the salary yourself and feel a financial hardship in doing so.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Joakim Noah finished top 5 in MVP voting and actually won DPOY (much higher IQ/passing skills than Bam} and I don't think anyone considered him a franchise player and he like Bam got trashed by skilled big men in the playoffs (no shame getting owned by stronger/more skilled players) I don't think he ever got max money either (could be wrong)

If you are not a threat to single handedly win games and carry a team on offense (scoring/playmaking) your not a elite player no matter how good you are on defense or doing the little things. No one fears Bams middies/open dunks most the time him scoring does very little to impact the game. He's a super role player and a great piece to have if he were making Tyler Herro type money.

The guy does not have the natural tools (e.g getting to a spot/natural creativity/touch/soft hands) to be a elite player despite insane physical gifts. Giving max money to player who consistently can't take over a game offensively is suicide. Bams a good player clearly and clearly someone you would love playing with but that's reality they overpaid for him.

Noah’s peak season is basically Bams worst year of his career

13-11-5 is literally this dudes peak and he was a 1 hit wonder DPOY like Marcus Smart although I can say he actually deserved it and Smart didn’t. Only a 2 time all star, only 3 all defense teams, and his high MVP finish was based on narratives because he helped the Bulls to a decent 48-34 record without Rose.

You all love to complain about Bam struggling to score but then gas up these dudes that are nowhere near the scorer he is lol it’s so ironic.

And again, he’s not making $50M for another 2 seasons when he will undoubtedly be better. If you’re saying he’s currently overpaid based on what he’s done in the league up until this point, well that’s just fuxkin insane

Noah played in a different league and split the precious try hard dunk man points with Taj Gibson and Carlos Boozer at times

Noah also had a extremely steep drop off as a player despite being a hard working high character guy

The commonality is if you aren’t a true 5 and can’t shoot your shelf life isn’t great in this league.

The time to move Bam will be this offseason, and unless there is some crazy progression in the 2nd half of the season this is the time to do it. I can almost promise you that Bam never sees a max again after his current one. Not too many people going to be lining up to pay the Mercedes Benz of Joel Anthony’s 60+ million dollars

Bam has been the play finisher on the NBA team with the best Coach in the league. To not even consider that it has inflated his offensive production is kinda bold. Now those opportunities have gone elsewhere and you got a max guy averaging 15 a night on meh efficiency

So much wrong in here I’m not even sure where to begin, we can just agree to disagree and I’ll be here to say I told you so when the time comes. You clearly have some hate in your heart

[marson]

Love to see Bam stans versus not so much stans going at it

at the end of the day we should all be Heat stans.

Not sure how I'm a Bam stan just bc I'm not eagerly trying to trade Bam at his lowest value as soon as Miami invested in drafting and developing a super unique 3&D center prospect (Adam Simon's description, not mine) that is the theoretical perfect fit to size up and run with Bam.

It's honestly unclear to me how some can claim to be Heat fans if the Heat showing their intention to pair these 2 together and getting positive signals on this front is immediately followed by loud push to get rid of Bam bc we have Ware. Like do we think this pairing will look better on day 1 or in year 2? Do we think the rookie is a finished product? Do we think Bam adapting to new roles is going to be immediately in its best form?

Help me out here, guys. I def feel a disconnect between my sentiment and the common fan sentiment. Interestingly, I feel completely aligned with what the actual Heat organization has in mind.

Sure, of course you aren't.

Chill out bro. I'll just grab my popcorn here

Love to read points from each side.

[greg4012]

Times sure have changed.

Herro, with a 24 PPG average, is ranked 19th in scoring.

When I started watching, that wouldve been top 10.

Which is why it's really important to take into account 'inflation' when trying to compare stats from before (specifically scoring).

Some people on here have compared Bam's stats with Chris Bosh's, stating that Bam has outplayed Chris Bosh during his time as a Heatle (I'm looking at you my friend, 13ammy ).

Chris Bosh in 2010-2011 averaged 18.7 points per game. Bam in 2023-24 averaged 19.3 points per game.

Chris Bosh in 2010-2011 was the 27th leading scorer in the NBA. Bam in 2023-24 was the 60th leading scorer in the NBA.

Welcome to points per 100 possessions.

2011 Bosh: 27.2 points per 100 possessions on 57% TS
2024 Bam: 28.2 points per 100 possessions on 58% TS

More players are scoring in the 20s now partially due to perimeter game change and more shot diets featuring higher 3 ball rates (and more players emphasizing developing those shots)

[Daffy]

Why are we complaining and arguing about Bam everyday? It's very simple if we're being honest.

He's not as great as some of his biggest fans think he is.

He's not as bad as some of the fans who want him traded think he is.

There's nothing wrong with that. He's still a good player you can win with once the team has the right pieces. He's a guy that can anchor your defense and when he's on he can give you solid efficient offense. If the plan is to contend quickly within the next 2-3 years you keep Bam. If you want to blow it up and go for a longer rebuild then you trade him.

All this constant back and forth about Bam is ridiculous and tiring. No he's not an elite player and no he's not some easily replaceable scrub.