The Gradey Dick Thread Part 3

[GLF]

Glad to hear that Dick is improving, it's just that whenever I check in on a Raptors game (infrequently I admit), Dick always seems lost and bullied on the court.

Oh he definitely gets bullied because he’s just so frail. He also gets sped up on offence which is probably what makes him look lost. His biggest issue to me on both ends is strength. That and general lack of experience. The moment that strength part comes around he’ll be just fine

[MEDIC]

Have we ever had a prospect like Gradey? (In regards to being a really frail/ weak.player who only needed to work.on strength, the only one I can think of is Tmac..........but Gradey is nowhere near that level as a prospect). I guess Bosh was very skinny/ weak, but he was still very productive aa a rookie.

What's his floor?

Right now I have Wlalter ahead of him as a long term prospect. 2 seasons from now I think Walter will be a really solid rotation player. I am not sure where GD will be. Next season will be a pivotal one for him. The kid gloves have to come off.

[Scase]

Glad to hear that Dick is improving, it's just that whenever I check in on a Raptors game (infrequently I admit), Dick always seems lost and bullied on the court.

Part of the problem is that he doesn't really have a role on the team, he's just filling in spots since nothing is really run with him in mind. Kinda like Scottie year one, I won't put too much hate on him defensively because this team is actual dog water, he does look lost on defence more than I'd like, but it's not like defence is anything (seemingly) focused on by the team. He's never going to be a very good defender, but his time in college shows his processing speed and the way he thinks about offence/defence, that he will likely end up being a neutral defender which is nothing bad. He's still built like a teenager so he can't really body guys like RJ/Scottie could, this also impacts him on the offensive end, but filling out will come with time.

If you go back and watch the games from the first half of the season when everyone was out but him and RJ, you can see him doing a TON of stuff he didn't do last year, those are the major developmental points IMO.

[brownbobcat]

I'm here to buy up everyones Gradey stock

As Zach Lowe would put it, happy to be the sole resident of Gradey Island.

The last page where everyone is patting themselves on the back because of one or two good games

Yeah I'm still high on the kid personally, and a big fat LOL to everyone rushing to give Masai props on drafting him based on some random redraft video, and then a month later it's how he shouldn't be starting lol.

People are fickle.

He's a freshly minted 21 year old, and he's still built like a teenager, he's got plenty of time ahead of him.

During the 1st half of his rookie season, I thought he was doing a lot of the right things offensively in terms of positioning and movement, the shots just stopped falling at some point. To some degree, that's still happening this year but he's expanded the repertoire of what he's trying so I think stagnation is definitely not a concern. How far he can go and when he should pull back is a question for the future, not this year.

Yes, he obviously needs to get stronger to have more success on both ends of the floor - again, that's not happening overnight.

[Tripod]

Glad to hear that Dick is improving, it's just that whenever I check in on a Raptors game (infrequently I admit), Dick always seems lost and bullied on the court.

Part of the problem is that he doesn't really have a role on the team, he's just filling in spots since nothing is really run with him in mind. Kinda like Scottie year one, I won't put too much hate on him defensively because this team is actual dog water, he does look lost on defence more than I'd like, but it's not like defence is anything (seemingly) focused on by the team. He's never going to be a very good defender, but his time in college shows his processing speed and the way he thinks about offence/defence, that he will likely end up being a neutral defender which is nothing bad. He's still built like a teenager so he can't really body guys like RJ/Scottie could, this also impacts him on the offensive end, but filling out will come with time.

If you go back and watch the games from the first half of the season when everyone was out but him and RJ, you can see him doing a TON of stuff he didn't do last year, those are the major developmental points IMO.

Great point on the last paragraph.

Yeah when all the offense was RJ/Yak PnR with Gradey always on the move, cutting, running around screens to get open, he was a more focal point of the offense. And as I said earlier, last year he shot more corner 3's, this year he is trying to expand his range.

To me, we have a collection of assets that most are still developing and we are constantly trying to see how the pieces fit with one another. And it's been harder with so many injuries we had.

Against the Cavs they said something like the Cavs starting have played every game together except for 3 games and the Raps had only 2 games all season together. Reality is, our guys still don't know how to play together because they haven't done so fir any length of time.

But it's all part of rebuilding too. Gradey is flawed and needs to work on things but he also needs time for his body to catch up with his ability.

[Reeko]

He'll be All NBA in a few years, for sure 2nd or 3rd team. I don't know if he'll ever be good enough to make a 1st team though.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Have we ever had a prospect like Gradey? (In regards to being a really frail/ weak.player who only needed to work.on strength, the only one I can think of is Tmac..........but Gradey is nowhere near that level as a prospect). I guess Bosh was very skinny/ weak, but he was still very productive aa a rookie.

What's his floor?

Right now I have Wlalter ahead of him as a long term prospect. 2 seasons from now I think Walter will be a really solid rotation player. I am not sure where GD will be. Next season will be a pivotal one for him. The kid gloves have to come off.

He hasn't looked overly weak/frail when taking it to the hoop to me. Especially considering hes a tall white shooter who is 20 yo or whatever.

[tsherkin]

He'll be All NBA in a few years, for sure 2nd or 3rd team. I don't know if he'll ever be good enough to make a 1st team though.

That's pretty aggressive. What do you think he'll bring which will set him apart from Rip Hamilton? Rip, who made 3 ASGs and never sniffed an All-League team of any sort?

Gradey looks like he's got some pretty intriguing potential as a scorer, but he doesn't do a lot of anything else. All-NBA would require him to be top-15 in the league, or at least in that general neighborhood.

[ForeverTFC]

Have we ever had a prospect like Gradey? (In regards to being a really frail/ weak.player who only needed to work.on strength, the only one I can think of is Tmac..........but Gradey is nowhere near that level as a prospect). I guess Bosh was very skinny/ weak, but he was still very productive aa a rookie.

What's his floor?

Right now I have Wlalter ahead of him as a long term prospect. 2 seasons from now I think Walter will be a really solid rotation player. I am not sure where GD will be. Next season will be a pivotal one for him. The kid gloves have to come off.

He hasn't looked overly weak/frail when taking it to the hoop to me. Especially considering hes a tall white shooter who is 20 yo or whatever.

Haven't checked the numbers lately, but at the beginning of January, someone posted a graphic that showed he was last in the league at finishing at the rim (ally-oops, cutting layups, driving layups, running layups, dunks, putbacks and tips according to the graphic).

It's definitely not his height and I doubt it's a lack of skill. Only thing that explains it is that he's too weak inside.

[Reeko]

He'll be All NBA in a few years, for sure 2nd or 3rd team. I don't know if he'll ever be good enough to make a 1st team though.

That's pretty aggressive. What do you think he'll bring which will set him apart from Rip Hamilton? Rip, who made 3 ASGs and never sniffed an All-League team of any sort?

Gradey looks like he's got some pretty intriguing potential as a scorer, but he doesn't do a lot of anything else. All-NBA would require him to be top-15 in the league, or at least in that general neighborhood.

I don't think comparing him to Rip is a good idea. The bulk of Rip's shots came from the mid range, including the dreaded long two. I think that the Raptors are going to prioritize making Gradey a ball handler and play maker moving forward.

You're comparing what you perceive to be the same archetype across different eras and expecting the same results, it's a flawed way of projecting the modern player's outcome.

[tsherkin]

I don't think comparing him to Rip is a good idea. The bulk of Rip's shots came from the mid range, including the dreaded long two. I think that the Raptors are going to prioritize making Gradey a ball handler and play maker moving forward.

I meant in the sense of offering nothing but scoring ,less so the specific style.

You're comparing what you perceive to be the same archetype across different eras and expecting the same results, it's a flawed way of projecting the modern player's outcome.

Well, no, it's not. If he doesn't learn how to rebound, defend and/or move the ball more effectively, than he's going to be a fairly similar archetype. The difference will, then, be more about whether he can do it more efficiently than +1, +1% rTS. Possible, but again, we're talking about a guy who doesn't really yet offer anything aside from scoring and isn't going to be a first option. So it's still a legitimate concern, most especially in the context of making an All-League team.

[Reeko]

I don't think comparing him to Rip is a good idea. The bulk of Rip's shots came from the mid range, including the dreaded long two. I think that the Raptors are going to prioritize making Gradey a ball handler and play maker moving forward.

I meant in the sense of offering nothing but scoring ,less so the specific style.

You're comparing what you perceive to be the same archetype across different eras and expecting the same results, it's a flawed way of projecting the modern player's outcome.

Well, no, it's not. If he doesn't learn how to rebound, defend and/or move the ball more effectively, than he's going to be a fairly similar archetype. The difference will, then, be more about whether he can do it more efficiently than +1, +1% rTS. Possible, but again, we're talking about a guy who doesn't really yet offer anything aside from scoring and isn't going to be a first option. So it's still a legitimate concern, most especially in the context of making an All-League team.

The rebounding and defense will improve as he gets stronger. The passing and dribbling will improve with more on ball reps. I see no reason why he can't be a 20+/5/5 guy on good efficiency. Turnovers are an issue at this stage but I still believe that he is one of the best passers on this team presently, and I expect that aspect of his game to grow considerably over the next few seasons.

[Appostis]

I don't think comparing him to Rip is a good idea. The bulk of Rip's shots came from the mid range, including the dreaded long two. I think that the Raptors are going to prioritize making Gradey a ball handler and play maker moving forward.

I meant in the sense of offering nothing but scoring ,less so the specific style.

You're comparing what you perceive to be the same archetype across different eras and expecting the same results, it's a flawed way of projecting the modern player's outcome.

Well, no, it's not. If he doesn't learn how to rebound, defend and/or move the ball more effectively, than he's going to be a fairly similar archetype. The difference will, then, be more about whether he can do it more efficiently than +1, +1% rTS. Possible, but again, we're talking about a guy who doesn't really yet offer anything aside from scoring and isn't going to be a first option. So it's still a legitimate concern, most especially in the context of making an All-League team.

The rebounding and defense will improve as he gets stronger. The passing and dribbling will improve with more on ball reps. I see no reason why he can't be a 20+/5/5 guy on good efficiency. Turnovers are an issue at this stage but I still believe that he is one of the best passers on this team presently, and I expect that aspect of his game to grow considerably over the next few seasons.

People too busy downplaying the guy.

If he can keep his speed with a extra 10-20 lbs of muscle I think you nailed it.

[Vampirate]

I don't think comparing him to Rip is a good idea. The bulk of Rip's shots came from the mid range, including the dreaded long two. I think that the Raptors are going to prioritize making Gradey a ball handler and play maker moving forward.

I meant in the sense of offering nothing but scoring ,less so the specific style.

You're comparing what you perceive to be the same archetype across different eras and expecting the same results, it's a flawed way of projecting the modern player's outcome.

Well, no, it's not. If he doesn't learn how to rebound, defend and/or move the ball more effectively, than he's going to be a fairly similar archetype. The difference will, then, be more about whether he can do it more efficiently than +1, +1% rTS. Possible, but again, we're talking about a guy who doesn't really yet offer anything aside from scoring and isn't going to be a first option. So it's still a legitimate concern, most especially in the context of making an All-League team.

Gradey would need to average something like 27 PPG on good efficiency to make an All NBA.

My hot take, and it's a long shot, but I do think Chomche has the chance to make one, and has the better chance over Gradey.

The tools and athleticism is there, but it's still a long shot. (I kind of liken Chomche to Siakam in that regard, but Chomche is taller)

[Kingsway_fan]

He should be coming off the bench... the rest of the season. (If we are looking to win. Start, if we want to tank)

[Thaddy]

He's a shooter that can't shoot. He's lost me as a fan. I would probably focus on Walter's development and trade him for a big man if we can. I would rather have Ware than Dick on the team. I'd even consider Kessler if we got picks attached.

[Appostis]

He's a shooter that can't shoot. He's lost me as a fan. I would probably focus on Walter's development and trade him for a big man if we can. I would rather have Ware than Dick on the team. I'd even consider Kessler if we got picks attached.

So...I can have your shares?

[RoteSchroder]

I don't think comparing him to Rip is a good idea. The bulk of Rip's shots came from the mid range, including the dreaded long two. I think that the Raptors are going to prioritize making Gradey a ball handler and play maker moving forward.

I meant in the sense of offering nothing but scoring ,less so the specific style.

You're comparing what you perceive to be the same archetype across different eras and expecting the same results, it's a flawed way of projecting the modern player's outcome.

Well, no, it's not. If he doesn't learn how to rebound, defend and/or move the ball more effectively, than he's going to be a fairly similar archetype. The difference will, then, be more about whether he can do it more efficiently than +1, +1% rTS. Possible, but again, we're talking about a guy who doesn't really yet offer anything aside from scoring and isn't going to be a first option. So it's still a legitimate concern, most especially in the context of making an All-League team.

Gradey would need to average something like 27 PPG on good efficiency to make an All NBA.

My hot take, and it's a long shot, but I do think Chomche has the chance to make one, and has the better chance over Gradey.

The tools and athleticism is there, but it's still a long shot. (I kind of liken Chomche to Siakam in that regard, but Chomche is taller)

The hype for young players is unreal on here. Let's just hope Chomche can make the to the bench and Gradey can make it to 6th man level and take it from there.

[tsherkin]

The rebounding and defense will improve as he gets stronger.

That is possible. Still an assumption, though. Rip ended up being pretty decent on defense himself.

The passing and dribbling will improve with more on ball reps. I see no reason why he can't be a 20+/5/5 guy on good efficiency.

Possible. Unlikely in Toronto, more for the playmaking than anything else. He's tall enough that if he doesn't Reggie/Rip out, then maybe he'll get his rebounding there. But 5 apg is a pretty tall order for someone who isn't going to be the focal point and isn't a PnR player and spends most of his time as a movement shooter.

[Jim Todd Jr.]

not a chance gradey avgs 5 assists