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sikma42 wrote:Can someone explain to me offensively what SGA does better than Jokic? I really don’t see it.
bstein14 wrote:Jokic is having his best statistical season, and is at the end of a GOAT 5 year stretch. He's got the best peak/prime of anyone since at least 88-93 Jordan. He amazingly has had a massive increase in his three point shooting this year. SGA's numbers actually look worse this season than last year he's doing less RPG, less APG, and shooting worse from 3 point land and turning it over more.
Yes, his team is stacked and elite defensively but its hard to look at a scenario where this year isn't quite as good for SGA and its the best ever statistical year for Jokic and SGA is the clear favorite. Voter fatigue for sure.
TheZachAttack wrote: OKC without Shai would still be a playoff team.
The-Power wrote:sikma42 wrote:Can someone explain to me offensively what SGA does better than Jokic? I really don’t see it.
How do you even compare the two? Pretty much all the things that make SGA the player that he is – those are the things he's better at than Jokic. And the same is true vice versa. They are tough to compare because they are so different but because they are so different it also really shouldn't be hard to see what SGA does better than Jokic. So I'm somewhat confused by the question.
sikma42 wrote:The-Power wrote:sikma42 wrote:Can someone explain to me offensively what SGA does better than Jokic? I really don’t see it.
How do you even compare the two? Pretty much all the things that make SGA the player that he is – those are the things he's better at than Jokic. And the same is true vice versa. They are tough to compare because they are so different but because they are so different it also really shouldn't be hard to see what SGA does better than Jokic. So I'm somewhat confused by the question.
It's a very clear question. Offensively what does SGA do better than Jokic?
Jokic imo is a better scorer, shooter, passer, rebounder and game manager. He's even better from most spots on the floor. So my question is again, what does SGA do better than Jokic
lethalizer wrote:TheZachAttack wrote: OKC without Shai would still be a playoff team.
I hope this wasn't an actual sincere statement.
Come on man.
The-Power wrote:sikma42 wrote:The-Power wrote:How do you even compare the two? Pretty much all the things that make SGA the player that he is – those are the things he's better at than Jokic. And the same is true vice versa. They are tough to compare because they are so different but because they are so different it also really shouldn't be hard to see what SGA does better than Jokic. So I'm somewhat confused by the question.
It's a very clear question. Offensively what does SGA do better than Jokic?
Jokic imo is a better scorer, shooter, passer, rebounder and game manager. He's even better from most spots on the floor. So my question is again, what does SGA do better than Jokic
SGA is a better ball handler, a better driver, better in the open floor, better at drawing fouls, better at converting foul shots, better at creating jump shots (separation), better at converting those shots (in the midrange), and a bunch of other things that I'm either forgetting to mention or that are more granular. You know, the things SGA is elite at and areas where he has natural advantages by virtue of being a smaller athletic player.
If you think Jokic was superior at literally everything then how could you even explain that SGA is at least in the same ball park as a scorer (scoring at higher volume and at very similar efficiency)? That wouldn't even make sense. Jokic is the best player in the NBA but he's not God (as you make him out to be by seemingly believing that he is better at literally everything than the arguably second best player who also happens to be a very different type of player with different strengths and limitations – that's an insane belief to hold; thus my confusion about the question).
lethalizer wrote:TheZachAttack wrote: OKC without Shai would still be a playoff team.
I hope this wasn't an actual sincere statement.
Come on man.
The-Power wrote:lethalizer wrote:TheZachAttack wrote: OKC without Shai would still be a playoff team.
I hope this wasn't an actual sincere statement.
Come on man.
They might well be, I don't think that's a controversial belief to have. But he takes them from a fringe playoff team to one of the two best teams in the NBA. That is high-level MVP impact. The Nuggets without Jokic are not a playoff team but they are also not as good as OKC with him, so that doesn't automatically make him rank higher.
lethalizer wrote:TheZachAttack wrote: OKC without Shai would still be a playoff team.
I hope this wasn't an actual sincere statement.
Come on man.
sikma42 wrote:The-Power wrote:lethalizer wrote:
I hope this wasn't an actual sincere statement.
Come on man.
They might well be, I don't think that's a controversial belief to have. But he takes them from a fringe playoff team to one of the two best teams in the NBA. That is high-level MVP impact. The Nuggets without Jokic are not a playoff team but they are also not as good as OKC with him, so that doesn't automatically make him rank higher.
So is the argument that OKC would be worse with Jokic than SGA? Do OKC fans actually think that.
Steph? 2015-2019?GeorgeSears wrote:Johnny Firpo wrote:GeorgeSears wrote:What's unique about Jokic is that five years ago he was just a top 2 center in the NBA averaging a cool 20 and 10 and making two all-star games. Fast forward, and five years later he's arguably a top 10 all-time player. That type of career trajectory has never been seen before.
The broader life lesson: You can redefine yourself in 5 years if you work hard.
If I remember correctly, he was in the top 10 in advanced stats like in his second year. The impact was there from very early, people obviously just needed time to accept him. Some never did, and never will.
I didn't see this coming. I'll be honest, I thought his peak was the 2018-2019 season where he was very solid averaging 20-10-7, and had he maintained that level of play he might've made the hall of fame at some point.
But the last 5 years, starting in 2020-2021, he's been on a completely different level. He's gone from a maybe HOFer to arguably top 10 ALL TIME in a 5 year stretch.
I can't remember the last time a player redefined their career like that. No one saw this coming.
Chets absence is actually part of what makes SGA case stronger.RRR3 wrote:Why are people incuding Chet in these comparisons as if he's been playing? Jokic stans are delusional
Infinite Llamas wrote:sikma42 wrote:The-Power wrote:They might well be, I don't think that's a controversial belief to have. But he takes them from a fringe playoff team to one of the two best teams in the NBA. That is high-level MVP impact. The Nuggets without Jokic are not a playoff team but they are also not as good as OKC with him, so that doesn't automatically make him rank higher.
So is the argument that OKC would be worse with Jokic than SGA? Do OKC fans actually think that.
I know that you don’t fix what isn’t broken but if Presti was offered Jokic for SGA he probably takes that trade. Can’t teach size in the playoffs. Jokic and Chet would do amazing things…
If Denver is offered SGA for Jokic, there’s zero percent chance that trade is made.
sikma42 wrote:The-Power wrote:sikma42 wrote:
It's a very clear question. Offensively what does SGA do better than Jokic?
Jokic imo is a better scorer, shooter, passer, rebounder and game manager. He's even better from most spots on the floor. So my question is again, what does SGA do better than Jokic
SGA is a better ball handler, a better driver, better in the open floor, better at drawing fouls, better at converting foul shots, better at creating jump shots (separation), better at converting those shots (in the midrange), and a bunch of other things that I'm either forgetting to mention or that are more granular. You know, the things SGA is elite at and areas where he has natural advantages by virtue of being a smaller athletic player.
If you think Jokic was superior at literally everything then how could you even explain that SGA is at least in the same ball park as a scorer (scoring at higher volume and at very similar efficiency)? That wouldn't even make sense. Jokic is the best player in the NBA but he's not God (as you make him out to be by seemingly believing that he is better at literally everything than the arguably second best player who also happens to be a very different type of player with different strengths and limitations – that's an insane belief to hold; thus my confusion about the question).
okay so I'm assuming you agree that he is a better passer, shooter, rebounder and game manager? sounds like it.
SGA is a better ball handler (which does lead to better passing scoring or playmaking), better at drawing fouls and making free throws, and better in the mid-range. I didn't ask the question thinking there were no advantages for SGA, just that they were comparatively small when looking at the totality of the game. Your response kinda fits squarely into that.
sikma42 wrote:Can someone explain to me offensively what SGA does better than Jokic? I really don’t see it.
Doctor MJ wrote:sikma42 wrote:The-Power wrote:SGA is a better ball handler, a better driver, better in the open floor, better at drawing fouls, better at converting foul shots, better at creating jump shots (separation), better at converting those shots (in the midrange), and a bunch of other things that I'm either forgetting to mention or that are more granular. You know, the things SGA is elite at and areas where he has natural advantages by virtue of being a smaller athletic player.
If you think Jokic was superior at literally everything then how could you even explain that SGA is at least in the same ball park as a scorer (scoring at higher volume and at very similar efficiency)? That wouldn't even make sense. Jokic is the best player in the NBA but he's not God (as you make him out to be by seemingly believing that he is better at literally everything than the arguably second best player who also happens to be a very different type of player with different strengths and limitations – that's an insane belief to hold; thus my confusion about the question).
okay so I'm assuming you agree that he is a better passer, shooter, rebounder and game manager? sounds like it.
SGA is a better ball handler (which does lead to better passing scoring or playmaking), better at drawing fouls and making free throws, and better in the mid-range. I didn't ask the question thinking there were no advantages for SGA, just that they were comparatively small when looking at the totality of the game. Your response kinda fits squarely into that.
You said:sikma42 wrote:Can someone explain to me offensively what SGA does better than Jokic? I really don’t see it.
Which implied that you were being humble about your ability to see the game and thus needed the help of those in this thread. Then when people respond to you, you turned your nose up at it.
Rhetorically it makes sense, but it makes you look disingenuous and not worth going back & forth with.
guynumber45 wrote:I just wish Jokic had a stacked team for just one year to see what they could accomplish. Tell me another top 20 player of all time who didn't play with at least one all-NBA calibre player at some point in their career.
