2024-2025 Regular Season Game 48: Orlando Magic (24-23) at Miami Heat (22-22) - 7:30pm

[JF5]

Paolo will be fine. Give him a few more games to get used to playing with Franz, Suggs and Goga again. There's been a lot of change, his injury was worse than Franz's according to reports. He's just overthinking right now probably due to all the changes. Game will slow down for him again soon. Win streak incoming...

I wouldn't freight either... you expect this inconsistent given the fact that he still isn't really in game shape.

[Rainwater]

To further illustrate how disastrous that loss was, our next 5 games:

@Portland
@Utah
@Golden State
@Sacramento
@Denver

We’re at .500 now. If we’re lucky we win 2 of those 5. Much more likely we win 1 and going 0-5 is very possible.

48 games in, will be 53 after those. We’ll be 25-28 or 26-27 when the roadie concludes.

This season has been a huge letdown.

Maybe I am being optimistic, but I think all these games are winnable.

That means nothing. Of course there is a non-zero chance they win each game. Would you like to wager on it? Over. 2 of this next 5.

lol, I just felt like you were being very pessimistic after a game they should have won. I am not a betting man but I think they win 3. Obviously Portland and Utah should be wins. And I am really not that afraid of Sacramento, Denver and particularly GSW.

[bigshawn]

Saying Franz is best Magic player isn't hot take

He is. He just does not have pedigree of first overall pick, isn't American and isn't glorified as best thing to arrive to draft years prior to a draft.

Franz is one of our best defenders and on offense he is at worst up to par with Banchero, often more efficient.

Banchero had good playoff series in very favorable matchup vs Cavs after Allen got hurt. Before that, over 3 games, his TS was 52% in playoffs, going i believe around 1-12 in direct isolations vs Mobley.

BUT once Allen got hurt, after already losing Wade, Cavs had no backup PF nor C left, Mobley slided back to PF, leaving Banchero to be guarded by 6'5 Okoro, chubby Niang or fringe nba players like Thompson & Morris ( Morris is no longer in nba).

Naturally, he ended up having great series after.

I often disagreed with Knightro this year who kept repeating offense will be fine because Paolo will/is taking massive leap, on very small sample.
Even in 5 games sample, his TS% was below 54% in 4 games, but inflated due 50 points game.

Banchero's game is basically playing Randle/ Derozan type player. Baiting for fouls and taking mid range shots and being ball stopper. When they go in everything looks great, when they don't, it doesn't. He is just taller than Derozan and more skilled than Randle so some things come easier.

But imo, main problem for Magic offense is how uninvolved rest of a players are in offense. Franz & Paolo manipulate & hold ball for so much that rest of a team falls into catch & shoot category, despite fact majority of them aren't actually good at it.
according to tracking, PB & FW hold ball near 11 seconds per possession. Given average length of possession is around 14,4 sec, it means rest of a team hardly ever touches the ball, let alone has time to do anything meaningful with it.

The Euro bias is strong with this one

[bigshawn]

Stop making excuses for Paolo, this is not because of the injury or conditioning. Seriously last season was the same thing, he had issues turning the ball over, missing shots at and around the rim to much, and the inconsistent free throw shooting.

Paolo takes a lot of tuff shots and bad shots, when he makes them nobody says anything naturally. That doesn’t make it not a bad shot though. He doesn’t seem to play in an offensive flow and that’s concerning. But none of this is new, he keeps this up he will be on the Carmelo Anthony track.

This....

Paolo is our best player. He moves the ball for 3 quarters and then he turns into Kobe or Carmello where since he's the face of the franchise, he has to take the shot in the last 2 minutes. This needs to stop. The iso ball isn't his or our strength.

This is why if we had Suggs at the 2 and signed Tyus or trade for a legit PG we would be an upper echelon team in my opinion.

Paolo or Franz can take the last shot. They just can initiate the offense. It's too inefficient.

[RichCollab]

Everything is going as planned. Nothing to see here.

[drsd]

Everything is going as planned. Nothing to see here.

[VFX]

Their is no way around it. A start would be getting finally a real PG giving him easier shots and pick n roll opportunities.

This times a million.

I watch these games where everything is dropping for Franz and Paolo as they walk into 3 point shots. Everyone cheers and says “THIS IS IT THEY FIGURED OUT THE OFFENSE”. Yeah, no ****.

You start hitting shots at an incredible rate and %, then there is no need to address anything. When the game slows down and Paolo and Franz can’t buy easy shots you have to start asking “why aren’t they running action to get better looks?”. That ultimately comes down to coaching, a point guard, and running plays.

Paolo has always had a difficult time getting efficient shots. I loathe watching specific players in this league foul hunt to get their points. Hes currently relying on refs to blow the whistle (sometimes without looking to even finish plays at the expense of defense) and trying to do too much on the court. Thats on him and Mosely to figure out if there isn’t a point guard to help.

Obviously a lot of people here watch basketball. You’d think they know what is an efficient shot or not.

Paolo and Franz more or less have a "forgiveness card" regarding the offense I think from Mose. As they are expected to run the offense. But we know this. We have hashed this out a billion times. We even agree that we need a better PG if some of these issues are ever going to figure themselves out.

I still stand by what I said. Which is, we are very much injured and have had inconsistent offensive comrade, which makes the idea of a starting PG look like a solid Gold bar in a dump.

Its gotten to the point of insanity this season. It couldn't possibly be more obvious.

People watch losses this season and the takeaways devolve from "We are injured" "Paolo isnt in shape yet" or "Player X had a bad game" when the real takeaway has always really been that there is no actual system in place on offense.

Are people here going to tell me a Miami team riddled with cancer drama and missing their best player are still more talented? No. They have a coach and that coach has a system that works well regardless of if they have Jimmy Butler or not. That should be what Orlando is aspiring toward.

Paolo and Franz were crazy inefficient against Miami. Everything is predictable. Nothing is "easy". They were a combined 17-46 and 4-18 from 3 just attempting to will their way into scoring. Not a system at all. Just trying to out-talent other teams on offense is why Orlando is bottom 10 and will be that way until they figure out the roster issues. They can't even help but re-sign everyone before figuring that out unfortunately.

[RichCollab]

This times a million.

I watch these games where everything is dropping for Franz and Paolo as they walk into 3 point shots. Everyone cheers and says “THIS IS IT THEY FIGURED OUT THE OFFENSE”. Yeah, no ****.

You start hitting shots at an incredible rate and %, then there is no need to address anything. When the game slows down and Paolo and Franz can’t buy easy shots you have to start asking “why aren’t they running action to get better looks?”. That ultimately comes down to coaching, a point guard, and running plays.

Paolo has always had a difficult time getting efficient shots. I loathe watching specific players in this league foul hunt to get their points. Hes currently relying on refs to blow the whistle (sometimes without looking to even finish plays at the expense of defense) and trying to do too much on the court. Thats on him and Mosely to figure out if there isn’t a point guard to help.

Obviously a lot of people here watch basketball. You’d think they know what is an efficient shot or not.

Paolo and Franz more or less have a "forgiveness card" regarding the offense I think from Mose. As they are expected to run the offense. But we know this. We have hashed this out a billion times. We even agree that we need a better PG if some of these issues are ever going to figure themselves out.

I still stand by what I said. Which is, we are very much injured and have had inconsistent offensive comrade, which makes the idea of a starting PG look like a solid Gold bar in a dump.

Its gotten to the point of insanity this season. It couldn't possibly be more obvious.

People watch losses this season and the takeaways devolve from "We are injured" "Paolo isnt in shape yet" or "Player X had a bad game" when the real takeaway has always really been that there is no actual system in place on offense.

Are people here going to tell me a Miami team riddled with cancer drama and missing their best player are still more talented? No. They have a coach and that coach has a system that works well regardless of if they have Jimmy Butler or not. That should be what Orlando is aspiring toward.

Paolo and Franz were crazy inefficient against Miami. Everything is predictable. Nothing is "easy". They were a combined 17-46 and 4-18 from 3 just attempting to will their way into scoring. Not a system at all. Just trying to out-talent other teams on offense is why Orlando is bottom 10 and will be that way until they figure out the roster issues. They can't even help but re-sign everyone before figuring that out unfortunately.

We are developing Paolo and Franz playmaking. It’s a development move to win sometime in the future.

I don’t see we add someone next season to reduce their roles in having the balls in their hands.

Once you make it easy and put them in their comfort zone the development in that area stops.

This seems very intentional.

[89Magicfan]

This times a million.

I watch these games where everything is dropping for Franz and Paolo as they walk into 3 point shots. Everyone cheers and says “THIS IS IT THEY FIGURED OUT THE OFFENSE”. Yeah, no ****.

You start hitting shots at an incredible rate and %, then there is no need to address anything. When the game slows down and Paolo and Franz can’t buy easy shots you have to start asking “why aren’t they running action to get better looks?”. That ultimately comes down to coaching, a point guard, and running plays.

Paolo has always had a difficult time getting efficient shots. I loathe watching specific players in this league foul hunt to get their points. Hes currently relying on refs to blow the whistle (sometimes without looking to even finish plays at the expense of defense) and trying to do too much on the court. Thats on him and Mosely to figure out if there isn’t a point guard to help.

Obviously a lot of people here watch basketball. You’d think they know what is an efficient shot or not.

Paolo and Franz more or less have a "forgiveness card" regarding the offense I think from Mose. As they are expected to run the offense. But we know this. We have hashed this out a billion times. We even agree that we need a better PG if some of these issues are ever going to figure themselves out.

I still stand by what I said. Which is, we are very much injured and have had inconsistent offensive comrade, which makes the idea of a starting PG look like a solid Gold bar in a dump.

Its gotten to the point of insanity this season. It couldn't possibly be more obvious.

People watch losses this season and the takeaways devolve from "We are injured" "Paolo isnt in shape yet" or "Player X had a bad game" when the real takeaway has always really been that there is no actual system in place on offense.

Are people here going to tell me a Miami team riddled with cancer drama and missing their best player are still more talented? No. They have a coach and that coach has a system that works well regardless of if they have Jimmy Butler or not. That should be what Orlando is aspiring toward.

Paolo and Franz were crazy inefficient against Miami. Everything is predictable. Nothing is "easy". They were a combined 17-46 and 4-18 from 3 just attempting to will their way into scoring. Not a system at all. Just trying to out-talent other teams on offense is why Orlando is bottom 10 and will be that way until they figure out the roster issues. They can't even help but re-sign everyone before figuring that out unfortunately.

I mean that is the main factor but that doesn’t negate the other factors.

[VFX]

Paolo and Franz more or less have a "forgiveness card" regarding the offense I think from Mose. As they are expected to run the offense. But we know this. We have hashed this out a billion times. We even agree that we need a better PG if some of these issues are ever going to figure themselves out.

I still stand by what I said. Which is, we are very much injured and have had inconsistent offensive comrade, which makes the idea of a starting PG look like a solid Gold bar in a dump.

Its gotten to the point of insanity this season. It couldn't possibly be more obvious.

People watch losses this season and the takeaways devolve from "We are injured" "Paolo isnt in shape yet" or "Player X had a bad game" when the real takeaway has always really been that there is no actual system in place on offense.

Are people here going to tell me a Miami team riddled with cancer drama and missing their best player are still more talented? No. They have a coach and that coach has a system that works well regardless of if they have Jimmy Butler or not. That should be what Orlando is aspiring toward.

Paolo and Franz were crazy inefficient against Miami. Everything is predictable. Nothing is "easy". They were a combined 17-46 and 4-18 from 3 just attempting to will their way into scoring. Not a system at all. Just trying to out-talent other teams on offense is why Orlando is bottom 10 and will be that way until they figure out the roster issues. They can't even help but re-sign everyone before figuring that out unfortunately.

We are developing Paolo and Franz playmaking. It’s a development move to win sometime in the future.

I don’t see we add someone next season to reduce their roles in having the balls in their hands.

Once you make it easy and put them in their comfort zone the development in that area stops.

This seems very intentional.

Ah yes, but "playmaking" doesn't necessarily always mean "distributing". There are other ways to be a "playmaker" without needing to dribble the air out of the ball in iso every possession. Orlando just hasnt figured that out yet.

Paolo had 5 turnovers in this game on 6 assists. Franz had 3 turnovers on 3 assists. This is combined with inefficient scoring.

At SOME point they need to make a determination as to whether this is a "development" waiting game, or that the skillset isn't efficient enough to forgo acquiring players that strengthen their other playmaking abilities.

I've said this before. Jayson Tatum started his career with Kyrie Irving and now has Jrue Holiday. Did the Celtics at any point say to themselves... "Hey lets make our system difficult for Jayson so that everything is easier for him later?" No. They said you are highly skilled at X, so we are going to put you in the best possible situation to do specifically that.

[three3d]

I’m DEAD SERIOUS when I say this, if you want to fix WHATEVER the problem is with the Magic’s offense you go get Terry Stotts this Summer and put him on the bench with Coach Mo. On top of that if possible you get Anfernee Simons and reunite him with Coach Stotts allowing him to implement an offense around Paolo, Franz, and Simons. Stotts coached Simons in Portland when Simons was a rookie behind Dame and CJ.

[89Magicfan]

Its gotten to the point of insanity this season. It couldn't possibly be more obvious.

People watch losses this season and the takeaways devolve from "We are injured" "Paolo isnt in shape yet" or "Player X had a bad game" when the real takeaway has always really been that there is no actual system in place on offense.

Are people here going to tell me a Miami team riddled with cancer drama and missing their best player are still more talented? No. They have a coach and that coach has a system that works well regardless of if they have Jimmy Butler or not. That should be what Orlando is aspiring toward.

Paolo and Franz were crazy inefficient against Miami. Everything is predictable. Nothing is "easy". They were a combined 17-46 and 4-18 from 3 just attempting to will their way into scoring. Not a system at all. Just trying to out-talent other teams on offense is why Orlando is bottom 10 and will be that way until they figure out the roster issues. They can't even help but re-sign everyone before figuring that out unfortunately.

We are developing Paolo and Franz playmaking. It’s a development move to win sometime in the future.

I don’t see we add someone next season to reduce their roles in having the balls in their hands.

Once you make it easy and put them in their comfort zone the development in that area stops.

This seems very intentional.

Ah yes, but "playmaking" doesn't necessarily always mean "distributing".

Paolo had 5 turnovers in this game on 6 assists. Franz had 3 turnovers on 3 assists. This is combined with inefficient scoring.

At SOME point they need to make a determination as to whether this is a "development" waiting game, or that the skillset isn't efficient enough to forgo acquiring players that strengthen their other playmaking abilities.

I've said this before. Jayson Tatum started his career with Kyrie Irving and now has Jrue Holiday. Did the Celtics at any point say to themselves... "Hey lets make our system difficult for Jayson so that everything is easier for him later?" No. They said you are highly skilled at X, so we are going to put you in the best possible situation to do specifically that.

This is a good point though. I don’t think we have made the moves to put those two into position to grow. KCP on paper looked fine but he should replace Gary’s role on the bench. There needs to be a floor spacer out there in that lineup.

[VFX]

We are developing Paolo and Franz playmaking. It’s a development move to win sometime in the future.

I don’t see we add someone next season to reduce their roles in having the balls in their hands.

Once you make it easy and put them in their comfort zone the development in that area stops.

This seems very intentional.

Ah yes, but "playmaking" doesn't necessarily always mean "distributing".

Paolo had 5 turnovers in this game on 6 assists. Franz had 3 turnovers on 3 assists. This is combined with inefficient scoring.

At SOME point they need to make a determination as to whether this is a "development" waiting game, or that the skillset isn't efficient enough to forgo acquiring players that strengthen their other playmaking abilities.

I've said this before. Jayson Tatum started his career with Kyrie Irving and now has Jrue Holiday. Did the Celtics at any point say to themselves... "Hey lets make our system difficult for Jayson so that everything is easier for him later?" No. They said you are highly skilled at X, so we are going to put you in the best possible situation to do specifically that.

This is a good point though. I don’t think we have made the moves to put those two into position to grow. KCP on paper looked fine but he should replace Gary’s role on the bench. There needs to be a floor spacer out there in that lineup.

The problem isn't having a volume shooter for them to lean on.

The problem is putting your elite scoring options in better, more efficient, situations to score. That requires more than handing them the ball on the wing/block and saying "figure it out".

Nobody can seriously watch these games and say that Paolo and Franz driving into Bam Adebayo and Kel'el Ware 20 times a game each inside the paint is a good system. KCP being a slightly higher volume shooter doesnt solve that.

[89Magicfan]

Ah yes, but "playmaking" doesn't necessarily always mean "distributing".

Paolo had 5 turnovers in this game on 6 assists. Franz had 3 turnovers on 3 assists. This is combined with inefficient scoring.

At SOME point they need to make a determination as to whether this is a "development" waiting game, or that the skillset isn't efficient enough to forgo acquiring players that strengthen their other playmaking abilities.

I've said this before. Jayson Tatum started his career with Kyrie Irving and now has Jrue Holiday. Did the Celtics at any point say to themselves... "Hey lets make our system difficult for Jayson so that everything is easier for him later?" No. They said you are highly skilled at X, so we are going to put you in the best possible situation to do specifically that.

This is a good point though. I don’t think we have made the moves to put those two into position to grow. KCP on paper looked fine but he should replace Gary’s role on the bench. There needs to be a floor spacer out there in that lineup.

The problem isn't having a volume shooter for them to lean on.

The problem is putting your elite scoring options in better, more efficient, situations to score. That requires more than handing them the ball on the wing/block and saying "figure it out".

Nobody can seriously watch these games and say that Paolo and Franz driving into Bam Adebayo and Kel'el Ware 20 times a game each inside the paint is a good system. KCP being a slightly higher volume shooter doesnt solve that.

I don’t say violume shooter who dominates the ball. I said a floor spacer. A consistent one.

[JoshuaPotter]

Its gotten to the point of insanity this season. It couldn't possibly be more obvious.

People watch losses this season and the takeaways devolve from "We are injured" "Paolo isnt in shape yet" or "Player X had a bad game" when the real takeaway has always really been that there is no actual system in place on offense.

Are people here going to tell me a Miami team riddled with cancer drama and missing their best player are still more talented? No. They have a coach and that coach has a system that works well regardless of if they have Jimmy Butler or not. That should be what Orlando is aspiring toward.

Paolo and Franz were crazy inefficient against Miami. Everything is predictable. Nothing is "easy". They were a combined 17-46 and 4-18 from 3 just attempting to will their way into scoring. Not a system at all. Just trying to out-talent other teams on offense is why Orlando is bottom 10 and will be that way until they figure out the roster issues. They can't even help but re-sign everyone before figuring that out unfortunately.

We are developing Paolo and Franz playmaking. It’s a development move to win sometime in the future.

I don’t see we add someone next season to reduce their roles in having the balls in their hands.

Once you make it easy and put them in their comfort zone the development in that area stops.

This seems very intentional.

Ah yes, but "playmaking" doesn't necessarily always mean "distributing". There are other ways to be a "playmaker" without needing to dribble the air out of the ball in iso every possession. Orlando just hasnt figured that out yet.

Paolo had 5 turnovers in this game on 6 assists. Franz had 3 turnovers on 3 assists. This is combined with inefficient scoring.

At SOME point they need to make a determination as to whether this is a "development" waiting game, or that the skillset isn't efficient enough to forgo acquiring players that strengthen their other playmaking abilities.

I've said this before. Jayson Tatum started his career with Kyrie Irving and now has Jrue Holiday. Did the Celtics at any point say to themselves... "Hey lets make our system difficult for Jayson so that everything is easier for him later?" No. They said you are highly skilled at X, so we are going to put you in the best possible situation to do specifically that.

What is funny or ironic. Is how I said it about Paolo in year 1. Mose seems to just let him do whatever and we rarely draw up plays for Paolo for easy baskets. Franz + Mo have at least a brother ball system happening. Which is why I mentioned comrade being part of the reason for this play.

2 things can be true at the same time. AB is the closest thing we have to an NBA point guard on our roster and even he may not actually be a guard when he is done.

I put the onus on both the coach for not having an offensive scheme other then 3-ball launch away, and ownership for not giving the coach a PG toy. In the meantime, the beatings will continue until moral improves. Paolo + Franz will play against pack the paint defense and double / tripple teams and any opponent will hedge their bet for a bad shooting night until we figure out ball distribution or find an NBA point guard.

Otherwise, the formula stand. P+F+anything that resembles an NBA point guard AKA Suggs and now Black, should land is in 500 range at the least.

[VFX]

This is a good point though. I don’t think we have made the moves to put those two into position to grow. KCP on paper looked fine but he should replace Gary’s role on the bench. There needs to be a floor spacer out there in that lineup.

The problem isn't having a volume shooter for them to lean on.

The problem is putting your elite scoring options in better, more efficient, situations to score. That requires more than handing them the ball on the wing/block and saying "figure it out".

Nobody can seriously watch these games and say that Paolo and Franz driving into Bam Adebayo and Kel'el Ware 20 times a game each inside the paint is a good system. KCP being a slightly higher volume shooter doesnt solve that.

I don’t say violume shooter who dominates the ball. I said a floor spacer. A consistent one.

Yeah, still not the solution. Suggs shot .400 from 3 last season on decent attempts and the offense was still bad.

[Skybox]

The problem isn't having a volume shooter for them to lean on.

The problem is putting your elite scoring options in better, more efficient, situations to score. That requires more than handing them the ball on the wing/block and saying "figure it out".

Nobody can seriously watch these games and say that Paolo and Franz driving into Bam Adebayo and Kel'el Ware 20 times a game each inside the paint is a good system. KCP being a slightly higher volume shooter doesnt solve that.

I don’t say violume shooter who dominates the ball. I said a floor spacer. A consistent one.

Yeah, still not the solution. Suggs shot .400 from 3 last season on decent attempts and the offense was still bad.

Paolo is amazing at making bad shots fall...but they're still often bad, inefficient shots. He needs help, not more experience taking bad shots. That's not playmaking or developmental.

It's critical to have those unstoppable, go get a bucket guys in the playoffs, when the chips are down. Calling that an offensive system for 82 regular season games is a terrible disservice to "development"...more like throwing roadblocks in front of him and forcing him to revert to bad habits to steal wins.

[three3d]

I don’t say violume shooter who dominates the ball. I said a floor spacer. A consistent one.

Yeah, still not the solution. Suggs shot .400 from 3 last season on decent attempts and the offense was still bad.

Paolo is amazing at making bad shots fall...but they're still often bad, inefficient shots. He needs help, not more experience taking bad shots. That's not playmaking or developmental.

It's critical to have those unstoppable, go get a bucket guys in the playoffs, when the chips are down. Calling that an offensive system for 82 regular season games is a terrible disservice to "development"...more like throwing roadblocks in front of him and forcing him to revert to bad habits to steal wins.

The Orlando Magic offense looks like EVERYTHING you’d see in any street game and rec center.

[89Magicfan]

The problem isn't having a volume shooter for them to lean on.

The problem is putting your elite scoring options in better, more efficient, situations to score. That requires more than handing them the ball on the wing/block and saying "figure it out".

Nobody can seriously watch these games and say that Paolo and Franz driving into Bam Adebayo and Kel'el Ware 20 times a game each inside the paint is a good system. KCP being a slightly higher volume shooter doesnt solve that.

I don’t say violume shooter who dominates the ball. I said a floor spacer. A consistent one.

Yeah, still not the solution. Suggs shot .400 from 3 last season on decent attempts and the offense was still bad.

It’s a big part of it. Can’t be very efficient if the floor isn’t spread out.

[three3d]

I don’t say violume shooter who dominates the ball. I said a floor spacer. A consistent one.

Yeah, still not the solution. Suggs shot .400 from 3 last season on decent attempts and the offense was still bad.

It’s a big part of it. Can’t be very efficient if the floor isn’t spread out.

It’s sad because this is the NBA you have guys that should be able to execute at extremely high levels. That’s why they are pro’s but what we watch on nightly basis looks more like Middle School basketball or a pick up game in the park. Watching Paolo ISO one on one till the shot clock gets low then they pass the ball around like a hot potato is ridiculous. Ownership shouldn’t even be charging fans money to come and watch that type of basketball.