RGM GOAT Debate Thread (Part 2)

[bledredwine]

Scottie Pippen was first team all NBA playing with Mike and a legit MVP candidate the year Mike was suspended for gambling. But sure never top 5. Gross how Mike guys need to trash a great player because they mistakenly believe it elevates Mike.

I'm also not a Lebron fan. Just not a Mike cultist either.

Um, not trashing, it's called actually watching and knowing the game as a Bulls fan instead of spewing nonsense.

Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
David Robinson
Charles Barkley
Clyde Drexler
Karl Malone
Patrick Ewing
Reggie Miller

Mitch was better as well, and you can debate a couple of others when you're in Pippen territory like Stockton.

and you're trying to tell me Pippen was a better player
Yeah, guess who else was a legit MVP candidate year after year from that list?

And for the record, what happened the year before Jordan came back? What happened
to that awesome squad? Shouldn't Pippen be carrying them and an obvious MVP choice if
he's top 5?

[Homer38]

Pippen was the best SF in the 1990s

[Texas Chuck]

And for the record, what happened the year before Jordan came back? What happened
to that awesome squad? Shouldn't Pippen be carrying them and an obvious MVP choice if
he's top 5?

So a team that lost a 3x MVP and replaced him with Meyers managed to win over 50 games and a playoff series and if not for some questionable officiating might have won at least one more.

What did Mike win before and after Pip? Oh that's right, not anything.

[ScrantonBulls]

Scottie Pippen was first team all NBA playing with Mike and a legit MVP candidate the year Mike was suspended for gambling. But sure never top 5. Gross how Mike guys need to trash a great player because they mistakenly believe it elevates Mike.

I'm also not a Lebron fan. Just not a Mike cultist either.

[Big J]

If he was competitive he wouldn’t have quit the sport in the middle of his prime.

He didn’t quit. Winning had gotten too easy, and he needed a new challenge.

And then he quit baseball cause he sucked at it lmao

Wrong again. He quit baseball because they had a lockout. He was on the verge of making the big leagues right before that happened.

[The High Cyde]

He didn’t quit. Winning had gotten too easy, and he needed a new challenge.

And then he quit baseball cause he sucked at it lmao

Wrong again. He quit baseball because they had a lockout. He was on the verge of making the big leagues right before that happened.

Oh yeah I know, quit regardless, how competitive.

[Big J]

And then he quit baseball cause he sucked at it lmao

Wrong again. He quit baseball because they had a lockout. He was on the verge of making the big leagues right before that happened.

Oh yeah I know, quit regardless, how competitive.

Yea, it would have been very competitive of him to sit on his ass at home while the strike was happening.

[bledredwine]

And for the record, what happened the year before Jordan came back? What happened
to that awesome squad? Shouldn't Pippen be carrying them and an obvious MVP choice if
he's top 5?

So a team that lost a 3x MVP and replaced him with Meyers managed to win over 50 games and a playoff series and if not for some questionable officiating might have won at least one more.

What did Mike win before and after Pip? Oh that's right, not anything.

And who was Mike's supporting cast?
Oh right, cocaine addicts.

And what happened when Mike returned? Oh right, they went from a barely .500 season to a .888 (84-14 streak) with MJ, including the following season, setting the all time regular season record at the time 72-10.
And that's checkmate.

.... but that's not all,
they also three-peated, including multiple Finals game winners and a game winning assist to Kerr by Jordan himself, not to mention the flu game.

This three-peat? It's something Lebron's never been able to do even after teaming up with two MVP candidates from the prior year, and one of the GOAT coaches in Riley. And he choked in 2011, nearly choked against the Spurs if not for Allen and Bosh.

When did Jordan choke like that? He was the best player on the court, period.

All of the above is what you call the true GOAT and ceiling raiser.

[Texas Chuck]

And what happened when Mike returned? Oh right, they finished a barely .500 season with a 14-3 record and 72-10 the next season, the best record of all time, for 76-13 total.
And that's checkmate.

.

Yes Mike is one of the 5 best players of all-time. Adding him to a very good team naturally led to championships. Weird to think that's a checkmate as opposed to pretty obvious lol.

Lebron does have 2011. He also has years he won titles or took his team to the Finals with far less help. Where is that season for Mike?

We know Mike could win titles with stacked teams that could win 55 games without him and a GOAT coach. We also know he couldn't lift the floors of mediocre teams the way Lebron did over and over again.

The difference is I acknowledge Mike is an all-time great. You won't for Lebron.

[Special_Puppy]

Has LeBron ever had a supporting cast that plays at a ~50 win pace without him?

[Rust_Cohle]

And what happened when Mike returned? Oh right, they finished a barely .500 season with a 14-3 record and 72-10 the next season, the best record of all time, for 76-13 total.
And that's checkmate.

.

Yes Mike is one of the 5 best players of all-time. Adding him to a very good team naturally led to championships. Weird to think that's a checkmate as opposed to pretty obvious lol.

Lebron does have 2011. He also has years he won titles or took his team to the Finals with far less help. Where is that season for Mike?

We know Mike could win titles with stacked teams that could win 55 games without him and a GOAT coach. We also know he couldn't lift the floors of mediocre teams the way Lebron did over and over again.

The difference is I acknowledge Mike is an all-time great. You won't for Lebron.

I’d argue lebron is a better floor raiser but MJ a better ceiling raiser. MJ has also never been as bad defensively as LeBron these last two seasons. But LeBron is obviously still worst case #2 all time. Considering the hype he had since he was 15 he has had a remarkable career exceeding expectations.

[ScrantonBulls]

He didn’t quit. Winning had gotten too easy, and he needed a new challenge.

And then he quit baseball cause he sucked at it lmao

Wrong again. He quit baseball because they had a lockout. He was on the verge of making the big leagues right before that happened.

MJ was on the verge of making the MLB with his robust .202 average and .556 OPS in AA. He was never making the majors, son.

[fanofthegreats]

I mean this is pretty desperate. You know the Mike guys realize Lebron has passed their dude when they are citing dunk contests.

Lebron never played a fictional game of HORSE against Larry Bird for a Big Mac either. Coward.

Nah, it’s a joke of a comparison. I can cite the hundreds of other reasons, as you already know.

Anyone who believes it’s a comparison is fooling themselves.

And even though there are more valid reasons, no doubt Jordan was a more competitive person than Lebron, who loves bandwagoning and ring chasing instead of competing for it… and yet, still four.

Whatever happened to all of those GIFs comparing Lebron to Jordan with “by age X” accomplishments? I wonder.

actually no you can’t. Definitely not by your post history. Definitely not by engaging in an actual basketball comparison.

[fanofthegreats]

And what happened when Mike returned? Oh right, they finished a barely .500 season with a 14-3 record and 72-10 the next season, the best record of all time, for 76-13 total.
And that's checkmate.

.

Yes Mike is one of the 5 best players of all-time. Adding him to a very good team naturally led to championships. Weird to think that's a checkmate as opposed to pretty obvious lol.

Lebron does have 2011. He also has years he won titles or took his team to the Finals with far less help. Where is that season for Mike?

We know Mike could win titles with stacked teams that could win 55 games without him and a GOAT coach. We also know he couldn't lift the floors of mediocre teams the way Lebron did over and over again.

The difference is I acknowledge Mike is an all-time great. You won't for Lebron.

Yep- to me the Youtube commentary level analysis and absence of an actual statistical based analysis just confirms that Jordan fans know deep down that James has a strong/valid case.

The poster you are quoting has a history of mocking the player comparison board because he couldn’t combat actual basketball analysis when this same topic was discussed.

[The Big O]

And for the record, what happened the year before Jordan came back? What happened
to that awesome squad? Shouldn't Pippen be carrying them and an obvious MVP choice if
he's top 5?

So a team that lost a 3x MVP and replaced him with Meyers managed to win over 50 games and a playoff series and if not for some questionable officiating might have won at least one more.

What did Mike win before and after Pip? Oh that's right, not anything.

And who was Mike's supporting cast?
Oh right, cocaine addicts.

And what happened when Mike returned? Oh right, they went from a barely .500 season to a .888 (84-14 streak) with MJ, including the following season, setting the all time regular season record at the time 72-10.
And that's checkmate.

.... but that's not all,
they also three-peated, including multiple Finals game winners and a game winning assist to Kerr by Jordan himself, not to mention the flu game.

This three-peat? It's something Lebron's never been able to do even after teaming up with two MVP candidates from the prior year, and one of the GOAT coaches in Riley. And he choked in 2011, nearly choked against the Spurs if not for Allen and Bosh.

When did Jordan choke like that? He was the best player on the court, period.

All of the above is what you call the true GOAT and ceiling raiser.

Riley was never the coach of those Heat teams. lol@ nearly choked again San Antonio if not for Allen and Bosh. Please post something substantive. I guess dropping 37 points in an NBA Finals Game 7 doesn't matter to you.

Chris Bosh was never an MVP candidate in whatever league you are imagining. Dwyane Wade stopped being an all-NBA caliber player by 2012 and played a collective of 49, 69, and 54 regular season games from 2012-2014.

[Big J]

And then he quit baseball cause he sucked at it lmao

Wrong again. He quit baseball because they had a lockout. He was on the verge of making the big leagues right before that happened.

MJ was on the verge of making the MLB with his robust .202 average and .556 OPS in AA. He was never making the majors, son.

He was. Watch the last dance. Baseball guys were saying he was close.

[bledredwine]

And what happened when Mike returned? Oh right, they finished a barely .500 season with a 14-3 record and 72-10 the next season, the best record of all time, for 76-13 total.
And that's checkmate.

.

Yes Mike is one of the 5 best players of all-time. Adding him to a very good team naturally led to championships. Weird to think that's a checkmate as opposed to pretty obvious lol.

Lebron does have 2011. He also has years he won titles or took his team to the Finals with far less help. Where is that season for Mike?

We know Mike could win titles with stacked teams that could win 55 games without him and a GOAT coach. We also know he couldn't lift the floors of mediocre teams the way Lebron did over and over again.

The difference is I acknowledge Mike is an all-time great. You won't for Lebron.

Yep- to me the Youtube commentary level analysis and absence of an actual statistical based analysis just confirms that Jordan fans know deep down that James has a strong/valid case.

The poster you are quoting has a history of mocking the player comparison board because he couldn’t combat actual basketball analysis when this same topic was discussed.

The entire GB has a history of mocking the Propaganda Comparison forum- it’s a laughing stock because of the obvious agenda. All it takes is a look at some of the poor thread topics.

As for stats? Jordan has six championships, defensive player of the year, 9 times first team defense (record), ten scoring titles,
is first in NbA history in PER, winshares, VORP per 48, even box score plus minus, points per game, both regular season and playoffs. How’s that for stats? What stats are you talking about? Longevity and cherry picked triple double stats?

Its a bad comparison, just like Kobe was.
And for the record, Spo is a direct student of Riley.

[The Big O]

So Mike played his entire relevant career with a fellow Dream Teamer and top 5 player in Pippen, played for arguably the goat coach in Phil Jackson and played with other strong teammates such as Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong the first threepeat and Longley, Rodman, Kerr, Harper, Kukoc on the 2nd.

Poor Mike, he just never got to go to the Finals with JR Smith as his best teammate. So unfair. Poor little Mike.

Top five is laughable. No one considered Pippen top 5. Player Comparison forum posters apparently do.
He was considered among the best two #2 options right alongside Stockton, who was also a dream teamer.

But this is what Lebron fans do- make excuses and exaggerate.
The thing is, Jordan performed every single time. He has the stats, testimony, achievements, and dominance to back it up.

Jordan even has all cross era players who actually played with or against both players saying "Jordan, by far" and similar sentiments.
He even had GOATs of the game calling him GOAT.

Lebron has... longevity.

Give Jordan Anthony Davis, or Wade Bosh and the league is his. 2011 doesn't happen, he doesn't get embarrassed by Duncan, he doesn't nearly lose another championship if not for Wade/Bosh saving him, he doesn't shoot .397 from the field, get outplayed by someone at his own position, or let 4 of his finals matchups win Finals MVP. Oh, and Jordan wouldn't have some of the worst finals slaughters of all time against his own team.

LOL what a fail post.

LeBron has "longevity". All the advanced stats PER, VORP, WS/48, BPM, RAPM, EPM suggest he's a strong GOAT candidate. His traditional statistical profile/body of work all suggest the same. But yes, just "longevity" lol.

[The Big O]

Yes Mike is one of the 5 best players of all-time. Adding him to a very good team naturally led to championships. Weird to think that's a checkmate as opposed to pretty obvious lol.

Lebron does have 2011. He also has years he won titles or took his team to the Finals with far less help. Where is that season for Mike?

We know Mike could win titles with stacked teams that could win 55 games without him and a GOAT coach. We also know he couldn't lift the floors of mediocre teams the way Lebron did over and over again.

The difference is I acknowledge Mike is an all-time great. You won't for Lebron.

Yep- to me the Youtube commentary level analysis and absence of an actual statistical based analysis just confirms that Jordan fans know deep down that James has a strong/valid case.

The poster you are quoting has a history of mocking the player comparison board because he couldn’t combat actual basketball analysis when this same topic was discussed.

The entire GB has a history of mocking the Propaganda Comparison forum- it’s a laughing stock because of the obvious agenda. All it takes is a look at some of the poor thread topics.

As for stats? Jordan has six championships, defensive player of the year, 9 times first team defense (record), ten scoring titles,
is first in NbA history in PER, winshares, VORP per 48, even box score plus minus, points per game, both regular season and playoffs. How’s that for stats? What stats are you talking about? Longevity and cherry picked triple double stats?

Its a bad comparison, just like Kobe was.

Yes the PC board is a laughingstock because they have more of an evolved form of basketball discussion than what you're used to. Sorry that doesn't indicate an "agenda" just because you don't like what your hearing, or is the opposite of what you think.

lmao@ longevity and "cherry picked triple double stats"- Exactly what I expected from you.

[bledredwine]

So Mike played his entire relevant career with a fellow Dream Teamer and top 5 player in Pippen, played for arguably the goat coach in Phil Jackson and played with other strong teammates such as Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong the first threepeat and Longley, Rodman, Kerr, Harper, Kukoc on the 2nd.

Poor Mike, he just never got to go to the Finals with JR Smith as his best teammate. So unfair. Poor little Mike.

Top five is laughable. No one considered Pippen top 5. Player Comparison forum posters apparently do.
He was considered among the best two #2 options right alongside Stockton, who was also a dream teamer.

But this is what Lebron fans do- make excuses and exaggerate.
The thing is, Jordan performed every single time. He has the stats, testimony, achievements, and dominance to back it up.

Jordan even has all cross era players who actually played with or against both players saying "Jordan, by far" and similar sentiments.
He even had GOATs of the game calling him GOAT.

Lebron has... longevity.

Give Jordan Anthony Davis, or Wade Bosh and the league is his. 2011 doesn't happen, he doesn't get embarrassed by Duncan, he doesn't nearly lose another championship if not for Wade/Bosh saving him, he doesn't shoot .397 from the field, get outplayed by someone at his own position, or let 4 of his finals matchups win Finals MVP. Oh, and Jordan wouldn't have some of the worst finals slaughters of all time against his own team.

LOL what a fail post.

LeBron has "longevity". All the advanced stats PER, VORP, WS/48, BPM, RAPM, EPM suggest he's a strong GOAT candidate. His traditional statistical profile/body of work all suggest the same. But yes, just "longevity" lol.

Jokes on you.

Jordan’s first in those and I’ll also post a video about it all since you missed the ride.