Wolves/Heat/Rockets, help balance this

[BBallFreak]

I don't buy Miami's interest in Julius Randle thanks to the emergence of Kel'el Ware and Nikola Jovic.

I understand your position, but from everything we hear from sources, actual interest is there. I wrote this elsewhere:

- One thing that many people ignore about Randle is the value of NBA fame. This guy is a regular All Star, and a two-time All NBA player. While many of us internet hoops wonks have never liked the guy, we aren’t the average, majority, ticket-buying fans. In the real world, GMs need to be able to sell their trades to the fans and to the owner, especially for teams with playoff ambitions. In a Jimmy trade, (or the KAT trade), Randle’s fame helps soften the blow for casual fans when a GM trades away an All Star player.

That said, I’m not trying to sell anyone on a Randle trade, and I suspect he won’t be traded.

- Personally, I think there is a chance, but a low one (maybe 25%), that Randle is traded by the deadline. He’s playing much better and he and the Wolves have finally gotten over their growing pains. I suspect Connelly and Finch aren’t eager to jump back into confusion, since we’re playing better and there are high win-now expectations for this team.

In the end, I suspect there were real world discussions, but both teams won’t find a trade, for reasons we have both expressed.

Oh, I believe interest did exist, but I don't think it still does. Circumstances have recently and dramatically changed with Miami's frontcourt.

[LarsV8]

I honestly don't think the Rockets value Jabari a whole lot. His role has decreased, and without him Amen has broken out as a star. Eason is also more valuable based on team need, so I don't see that as a deal breaker, considering Houston cannot pay everyone. Minnesota should get cut out here though.

Yes, the riskiest thing is that whichever GM has Jabari needs to determine what his next extension should be.

Over the next four years, is he the guy that can be a star for ten days? Or will he be the guy who fades into the woodwork for many weeks at a time? Is he the guy you lock up a lot of payroll into? If he’s looking for a max deal ..?

Jabari is a 6'10, versatile defender, with a nice shooting touch, and barely 21 years old. He can play as a small ball 5, which the Rockets don't currently have. The Rockets value him immensely, as they should. Amen and Eason being studs does not change that.

He doesn't have the skill set of a star, but he is on his way to being a high level role player ala Herb Jones, Caruso, Covington, etc.

There is certainly a scenario where we can't keep all of our guys due to payroll, but if isn't on the team long term, he is likely packaged with other assets for a star (and not a 35 year old one). If a star isn't available, they would look to auction him off for multiple future firsts.

[cgf]

As a big Randle fan, a Randle / Adebayo / Ware bigman trio would be pretty f***ing annoying to play against. Spo could keep one of Bam or Ware on the court at all times to anchor their defense, and one of Bam or Ju at all times to create for their shooters.

Would be putting a lot on Herro to be their closer, and I do think they'd need a wing defender to replace Jimmy, but I'd much rather the Heat keep the Wolves out of this and just take Houston's youth for themselves

[winforlose]

As a big Randle fan, a Randle / Adebayo / Ware bigman trio would be pretty f***ing annoying to play against. Spo could keep one of Bam or Ware on the court at all times to anchor their defense, and one of Bam or Ju at all times to create for their shooters.

Would be putting a lot on Herro to be their closer, and I do think they'd need a wing defender to replace Jimmy, but I'd much rather the Heat keep the Wolves out of this and just take Houston's youth for themselves

This is a perfectly valid opinion. But my understanding of the Heat situation is that if they don’t make the playoffs (not the play in,) then the Heat lose an unprotected pick in 2026 and 2028. Smith Jr is out for at least a month, maybe more, and then he needs to get back in shape. That doesn’t leave him much time to improve Miami. Beyond JSJ green is an expiring, let’s say you waive him to keep your existing roster, now you have Brooks money on the books for 2 years (what PR didn’t want,) and JSJ not helping much until next year where you either have to pay him or lose him in RFA. I don’t know this is the trade Miami wants.

[Kiss of Death]

Houston not interested in this deal but…

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=Czvoq_OfH0ZSMgHqWBWrFA

[winforlose]

Houston not interested in this deal but…

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=Czvoq_OfH0ZSMgHqWBWrFA

I mentioned a while back in a different thread that Randle to Heat with Bulter going to a 3rd team is very possible. The question is who is the 3rd team? If it is Phoenix, then we are talking 4 teams at least. The Wolves primary areas of need are PG and backup C. If you believe me, Dilly is 2 years away from starting, and the Wolves cannot rely on Mike Conley in the meantime. That means we need a bridge PG to play with Ant and run our offense. Likewise we need a floor spacing big to play behind Rudy and Naz as a 4/5 combo big. One of the two needs to be on a discount or rookie deal, the other needs to add up to equal Randle. NAW, the Det first, and Utah 2nd are all available in figuring this out. The smaller salaries the Wolves can use are Shannon, Minott, Miller, Ingles, and Garza. I doubt they trade Dillingham or Naz. Mike has a no trade promise from ownership as good as a no trade clause. Rudy is trade ineligible due to an extension. I doubt we move Jaden or Ant.

[BBallFreak]

Houston not interested in this deal but…

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=Czvoq_OfH0ZSMgHqWBWrFA

I think interest did exist at one point, but I don't think that's the case anymore. Miami has recently had a revelation in the frontcourt so the need that was there has been filled.

[winforlose]

Houston not interested in this deal but…

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=Czvoq_OfH0ZSMgHqWBWrFA

I think interest did exist at one point, but I don't think that's the case anymore. Miami has recently had a revelation in the frontcourt so the need that was there has been filled.

You would know better than me.

[BBallFreak]

Houston not interested in this deal but…

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=Czvoq_OfH0ZSMgHqWBWrFA

I think interest did exist at one point, but I don't think that's the case anymore. Miami has recently had a revelation in the frontcourt so the need that was there has been filled.

You would know better than me.

I don't have any information other than what we've been seeing on the court, but it seems logical that we give Ware his chance given how well he's played alongside Bam and, now, Jovic (the three of them, together). We have other needs, in particular at point guard. We just don't need a $34 million power forward right now.

[cgf]

As a big Randle fan, a Randle / Adebayo / Ware bigman trio would be pretty f***ing annoying to play against. Spo could keep one of Bam or Ware on the court at all times to anchor their defense, and one of Bam or Ju at all times to create for their shooters.

Would be putting a lot on Herro to be their closer, and I do think they'd need a wing defender to replace Jimmy, but I'd much rather the Heat keep the Wolves out of this and just take Houston's youth for themselves

This is a perfectly valid opinion. But my understanding of the Heat situation is that if they don’t make the playoffs (not the play in,) then the Heat lose an unprotected pick in 2026 and 2028. Smith Jr is out for at least a month, maybe more, and then he needs to get back in shape. That doesn’t leave him much time to improve Miami. Beyond JSJ green is an expiring, let’s say you waive him to keep your existing roster, now you have Brooks money on the books for 2 years (what PR didn’t want,) and JSJ not helping much until next year where you either have to pay him or lose him in RFA. I don’t know this is the trade Miami wants.

Things going wrong for Pat the Rat sounds good to me

[nykballa2k4]

At this point of the Butler saga I don't see anyone putting a Jabari level asset on the table for him. It would be Houston's floatsam (Adams, Green, Landale, Tate....not Brooks) and a late 1st or Whitmore. If Minny is interested in some that flotsam and that 1st(whitemroe) maybe Miami cuts them in.

But I don't really see the fit of Randle there so not sure why he is linked to Miami in the 1st place.

Randle would be a strong starter at the 4. He and Bam are both good passers. Randle is better when he isn't trying to go into his dribble bag. Spo will certainly be able to get the most out of Randle.

That said, I agree that I don't think the asking price for Butler would have to include someone as valuable as Jabari.

[winforlose]

At this point of the Butler saga I don't see anyone putting a Jabari level asset on the table for him. It would be Houston's floatsam (Adams, Green, Landale, Tate....not Brooks) and a late 1st or Whitmore. If Minny is interested in some that flotsam and that 1st(whitemroe) maybe Miami cuts them in.

But I don't really see the fit of Randle there so not sure why he is linked to Miami in the 1st place.

Randle would be a strong starter at the 4. He and Bam are both good passers. Randle is better when he isn't trying to go into his dribble bag. Spo will certainly be able to get the most out of Randle.

That said, I agree that I don't think the asking price for Butler would have to include someone as valuable as Jabari.

1. Who on the Rockets should go out?

2. Why should the Wolves trade Randle for a bad return?

You say Jimmy isn’t worth a quality return, well there are plenty of Jimmy suitors, and it is a competition. The one who offers the best package gets a guy they want.

[Frankie]

I honestly don't think the Rockets value Jabari a whole lot. His role has decreased, and without him Amen has broken out as a star. Eason is also more valuable based on team need, so I don't see that as a deal breaker, considering Houston cannot pay everyone. Minnesota should get cut out here though.

Look at our defensive rating before and after Jabari has been out of the team. We've tumbled down the list. He is crucial to how we set up defensively and he's a pretty decent shooter. Obviously we can't send Amen back to the bench, so honestly it becomes a Brooks vs Jabari question. Udoka will have an important decision to make soon, and I hope it ends with Brooks coming off the bench and Amen and Jabari both in the starting 5.

As for Jimmy Butler, imo Rockets should stay very far away from him.

[Kiss of Death]

1. Who on the Rockets should go out?

2. Why should the Wolves trade Randle for a bad return?

You say Jimmy isn’t worth a quality return, well there are plenty of Jimmy suitors, and it is a competition. The one who offers the best package gets a guy they want.

The Rockets do not want Butler.
Miami and Minnesota should find another third team.

[BBallFreak]

Things going wrong for Pat the Rat sounds good to me

Wow, I'm happy for you! As a Knicks fan you finally get to see Riley struggle. Only took 30 years, 7 finals appearance, and 3 rings, but hey, enjoy your victory

[cgf]

Things going wrong for Pat the Rat sounds good to me

Wow, I'm happy for you! As a Knicks fan you finally get to see Riley struggle. Only took 30 years, 7 finals appearance, and 3 rings, but hey, enjoy your victory

I know most Heat fans aren't old enough to remember what it was like before LeBron made you relevant, but the 90s & early 200s were pretty fun

[BBallFreak]

Things going wrong for Pat the Rat sounds good to me

Wow, I'm happy for you! As a Knicks fan you finally get to see Riley struggle. Only took 30 years, 7 finals appearance, and 3 rings, but hey, enjoy your victory

I know most Heat fans aren't old enough to remember what it was like before LeBron made you relevant, but the 90s & early 200s were pretty fun

We got to the finals before LeBron. Won it all, too. Got back there after him.

If winning the championship makes you relevant, when was the last time your Knicks were? I mean, Miami has had more success as a franchise in my lifetime (I'm 48) even if you remove the LeBron years...

[Texas Chuck]

We have moved well beyond any constructive dialogue on this one I think. Anyone wants to discuss the OP's ideas more, just pick it up in the Butler thread.