2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA

[3ballbomber]

We better keep Ware.

Kid is untouchable at this point. He maximises Bam. Our players loves playing w/ him.

[Bmaster]

We better keep Ware.

Kid is untouchable at this point. He maximises Bam. Our players loves playing w/ him.

No way trading ware bam hero Jovic. Ware going to be a great player

[MartyConlonJr]

Heat:
Incoming: Lavine (43), Beal (50.2), Fox (34.8) = 128
Outgoing: Butler (48.7), Herro (29), Rozier (25), Duncan Robinson (19.4), Highsmith (5.2), Heat 2029 1st round pick lotto protected, unprotected in 2030 = 127.3

C - Ware / Love
PF - Bam / Jovic
SF - Lavine / Jaquez
SG - Beal / Burks
PG - Fox / Larsson

Bucks:
Incoming: Herro (29)
Outgoing: Middleton (31.7), 2031 1st round pick (unprotected)
Bucks get a superior player in Herro to Middleton, who fits Giannis timeline, and is a hometown hero. Gives up draft capital.

Bulls:
Incoming: Middleton (31.7), Rozier (25), Highsmith (5.2) = 61.9
Outgoing: Lavine (43), Patrick Williams (18), Portland's lotto protected 2025 (then 26, 27) 1st rounder, Chicago's 2029 top 5 protected pick = 61

Suns:
Incoming: Jimmy (48.7)
Outgoing: Beal (50.2) Dunn (2.5), 2 x 1st round picks in 2026, 2028 (worse of Suns and Wizards) = 52.7

Kings:
Incoming: Duncan Robinson (19.4), Patrick Williams (18) = 37.4
Portlands 2025 1st round pick (top 14 protected in 25, 26, 27)
Suns 2026 1st round pick (unprotected, but Wizards have swap rights)
Suns 2028 1st round pick (unprotected, but Wizards have swap rights)
Chicago 2029 1st round pick (top 5 protected)
Heat 2029 1st round pick (top 14 protected, unprotected in 2030)
Bucks 2031 1st round pick (unprotected)
Outgoing: Fox (34.8)

Would you take on all the albatrosses of Beal and Lavine's contracts and give up Herro to get all the draft capital if it gave you Fox? Not sure I would.

But you do have a Ware/Bam/Jovic/JJJ/Fox lineup even if you just put them both on the shelf.

[3ballbomber]

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[Lennyzinho]

We better keep Ware.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/5p0V524TkgWwkqnY8MfVUb?si=psp2RPLcSwe9vgC2cQv1Vg

Bill Simmons podcast yesterday with Ryen Russillo, they start it off talking about Jimmy Butler and the Heat and then they go over NBA Trade Rankings.

Ware 64, Herro 55, Bam 32. Jimmy omitted since they think this whole drama torpedoed his value. Bill thinks a team should def grab him by paying 12 cents on the dollar and that no one would wanna face that team.

In summary. Heat building around bam herro ware. Ware isn't going anywhere.

[SA37]

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I would be really happy to get Middleton/Portis. They check so many boxes for the organization. It's hard to see a better trading partner for Miami.

Since Butler said he wanted out, I have been saying I thought Miami might try to get Julius Randle, and now there is some reporting saying there may be interest there. Portis could be re-routed to Minnesota with either Rozier, Robinson, or a player from a 3rd team which could give Minnesota a better fit and would give Miami a nasty offense/defense front-line of Randle/Bam. And I think we need that same kind of design in the backcourt, where Herro is teamed up with a defensive guard, like GP II, Smart, or KCP. (I think Orlando would consider Beal or Lavine for J Isaac and KCP if Phoenix is Butler's destination.)

[SA37]

Yes, they do.

I checked and pretty much all they have left is:

2025: least fav UTA, CLE or MIN
2027: least fav: UTA, CLE or MIN
2029: least fav: UTA, CLE or MIN

Are you thinking 2040 or something? Seriously, their next tradeable 1st that could be unprotected is 2033. Do you want to wait that long?

My understanding of Stepian rule (didnt fact check this though) is that by getting the crappy 25, 27 and 29 picks from Utah that will likely be the 25-30th picks of Cleveland who has everyone in their core under contract till 2028 at least, It actually unlocked their 26 and 28 picks. They are currently swaps with I think Washington, so they are protected in some way (cannot be 1st pick), but if Washington AND Phoenix suck, they are that valuable. Given Beal and KD's injury history and ages and the competitiveness of the West, lotto is very possible for them and Washington in those years. So there is some value there if that Stepian Rule does work like that.

This is my understanding, as well.

[Bmaster]

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I would be really happy to get Middleton/Portis. They check so many boxes for the organization. It's hard to see a better trading partner for Miami.

Since Butler said he wanted out, I have been saying I thought Miami might try to get Julius Randle, and now there is some reporting saying there may be interest there. Portis could be re-routed to Minnesota with either Rozier, Robinson, or a player from a 3rd team which could give Minnesota a better fit and would give Miami a nasty offense/defense front-line of Randle/Bam. And I think we need that same kind of design in the backcourt, where Herro is teamed up with a defensive guard, like GP II, Smart, or KCP. (I think Orlando would consider Beal or Lavine for J Isaac and KCP if Phoenix is Butler's destination.)

Ware is starter from now on. Think if you get randle just delays development of ware. Ware putting up better stats than randle since ware became starter.

[SA37]

Heat:
Incoming: Lavine (43), Beal (50.2), Fox (34.8) = 128
Outgoing: Butler (48.7), Herro (29), Rozier (25), Duncan Robinson (19.4), Highsmith (5.2), Heat 2029 1st round pick lotto protected, unprotected in 2030 = 127.3

C - Ware / Love
PF - Bam / Jovic
SF - Lavine / Jaquez
SG - Beal / Burks
PG - Fox / Larsson

Bucks:
Incoming: Herro (29)
Outgoing: Middleton (31.7), 2031 1st round pick (unprotected)
Bucks get a superior player in Herro to Middleton, who fits Giannis timeline, and is a hometown hero. Gives up draft capital.

Bulls:
Incoming: Middleton (31.7), Rozier (25), Highsmith (5.2) = 61.9
Outgoing: Lavine (43), Patrick Williams (18), Portland's lotto protected 2025 (then 26, 27) 1st rounder, Chicago's 2029 top 5 protected pick = 61

Suns:
Incoming: Jimmy (48.7)
Outgoing: Beal (50.2) Dunn (2.5), 2 x 1st round picks in 2026, 2028 (worse of Suns and Wizards) = 52.7

Kings:
Incoming: Duncan Robinson (19.4), Patrick Williams (18) = 37.4
Portlands 2025 1st round pick (top 14 protected in 25, 26, 27)
Suns 2026 1st round pick (unprotected, but Wizards have swap rights)
Suns 2028 1st round pick (unprotected, but Wizards have swap rights)
Chicago 2029 1st round pick (top 5 protected)
Heat 2029 1st round pick (top 14 protected, unprotected in 2030)
Bucks 2031 1st round pick (unprotected)
Outgoing: Fox (34.8)

Would you take on all the albatrosses of Beal and Lavine's contracts and give up Herro to get all the draft capital if it gave you Fox? Not sure I would.

But you do have a Ware/Bam/Jovic/JJJ/Fox lineup even if you just put them both on the shelf.

If that were actually the deal, I can't see how Miami passes. Even with his improvement, Lavine and Beal are still arguably better players than Herro, let alone Fox.

[SA37]

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I would be really happy to get Middleton/Portis. They check so many boxes for the organization. It's hard to see a better trading partner for Miami.

Since Butler said he wanted out, I have been saying I thought Miami might try to get Julius Randle, and now there is some reporting saying there may be interest there. Portis could be re-routed to Minnesota with either Rozier, Robinson, or a player from a 3rd team which could give Minnesota a better fit and would give Miami a nasty offense/defense front-line of Randle/Bam. And I think we need that same kind of design in the backcourt, where Herro is teamed up with a defensive guard, like GP II, Smart, or KCP. (I think Orlando would consider Beal or Lavine for J Isaac and KCP if Phoenix is Butler's destination.)

Ware is starter from now on. Think if you get randle just delays development of ware. Ware putting up better stats than randle since ware became starter.

I'm not ready to coronate our "Wemby lite" for a handful of good performances. In any case, the "odd man out" is likely Jovic. In any case, Randle is only on the books for one more season, which gives Jovic and Ware time to continue to develop without having to deliver playoff wins for Miami.

I know most people don't like the idea of Randle in Miami, but I think he'd be an excellent addition.

[batterybro42]

A few weeks ago on here I said that I felt Ware had qualities that if his play ever warranted it would make him a franchise leader in Miami, now that most us have got more exposure to him, I am interested to know if anybody has started to see his intangibles similarly? I got laughed out of thread for it at the time, but I continue to believe that he has all the makings of not just a good player, but somebody who can elevate players around him, and a guy other players/coaches will want to work with.

It will be interesting to see him match up against Wemby again. He definitely got the better of Wemby the first time, I think if he can do it again we might start to see the beginning of a little rivalry. Personally to me Wemby is soft, and while Ware is somewhat similar to me in skillset, I think he has a much more rugged disposition. He's going to start talking $h1T to people on the floor pretty soon, he started getting active a little bit against the Magic.

[MettaWorldPanda]

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Could be a landing spot for LaVine.

[twix2500]

At the end of the day the Heat need those draft picks in return for Butler

[Pokuokic]

I would be really happy to get Middleton/Portis. They check so many boxes for the organization. It's hard to see a better trading partner for Miami.

Since Butler said he wanted out, I have been saying I thought Miami might try to get Julius Randle, and now there is some reporting saying there may be interest there. Portis could be re-routed to Minnesota with either Rozier, Robinson, or a player from a 3rd team which could give Minnesota a better fit and would give Miami a nasty offense/defense front-line of Randle/Bam. And I think we need that same kind of design in the backcourt, where Herro is teamed up with a defensive guard, like GP II, Smart, or KCP. (I think Orlando would consider Beal or Lavine for J Isaac and KCP if Phoenix is Butler's destination.)

Ware is starter from now on. Think if you get randle just delays development of ware. Ware putting up better stats than randle since ware became starter.

I'm not ready to coronate our "Wemby lite" for a handful of good performances. In any case, the "odd man out" is likely Jovic. In any case, Randle is only on the books for one more season, which gives Jovic and Ware time to continue to develop without having to deliver playoff wins for Miami.

I know most people don't like the idea of Randle in Miami, but I think he'd be an excellent addition.

It shouldn't affect Jovic at all if they simply play him at SF his natural position it would hurt Ware far more since it would push back Bam to C..

[batterybro42]

I would be really happy to get Middleton/Portis. They check so many boxes for the organization. It's hard to see a better trading partner for Miami.

Since Butler said he wanted out, I have been saying I thought Miami might try to get Julius Randle, and now there is some reporting saying there may be interest there. Portis could be re-routed to Minnesota with either Rozier, Robinson, or a player from a 3rd team which could give Minnesota a better fit and would give Miami a nasty offense/defense front-line of Randle/Bam. And I think we need that same kind of design in the backcourt, where Herro is teamed up with a defensive guard, like GP II, Smart, or KCP. (I think Orlando would consider Beal or Lavine for J Isaac and KCP if Phoenix is Butler's destination.)

Ware is starter from now on. Think if you get randle just delays development of ware. Ware putting up better stats than randle since ware became starter.

I'm not ready to coronate our "Wemby lite" for a handful of good performances. In any case, the "odd man out" is likely Jovic. In any case, Randle is only on the books for one more season, which gives Jovic and Ware time to continue to develop without having to deliver playoff wins for Miami.

I know most people don't like the idea of Randle in Miami, but I think he'd be an excellent addition.

Now that Spo has started to embrace big ball, maybe he takes it to the same extreme he took small ball to

PG: Jovic
SG: Herro
SF: Randle
PF: Bam
C: Ware

Need Keshad Johnson to come off the bench and start a fight every game, and Tyler Herro just gets the mega green light from 3

This could be a recipe for success

[Pokuokic]

I still reckon the Hawks are a potential team who could get in on the Butler stuff to shake it up they have been going nowhere and Cappella, Hunter, Bogdanovic and Nance are all contract they want to get off of (maybe not Hunter but they got the #1 pick playing the same spot and Jalen Johnson has PF locked up).

[Bmaster]

I would be really happy to get Middleton/Portis. They check so many boxes for the organization. It's hard to see a better trading partner for Miami.

Since Butler said he wanted out, I have been saying I thought Miami might try to get Julius Randle, and now there is some reporting saying there may be interest there. Portis could be re-routed to Minnesota with either Rozier, Robinson, or a player from a 3rd team which could give Minnesota a better fit and would give Miami a nasty offense/defense front-line of Randle/Bam. And I think we need that same kind of design in the backcourt, where Herro is teamed up with a defensive guard, like GP II, Smart, or KCP. (I think Orlando would consider Beal or Lavine for J Isaac and KCP if Phoenix is Butler's destination.)

Ware is starter from now on. Think if you get randle just delays development of ware. Ware putting up better stats than randle since ware became starter.

I'm not ready to coronate our "Wemby lite" for a handful of good performances. In any case, the "odd man out" is likely Jovic. In any case, Randle is only on the books for one more season, which gives Jovic and Ware time to continue to develop without having to deliver playoff wins for Miami.

I know most people don't like the idea of Randle in Miami, but I think he'd be an excellent addition.

Ware going to be one of better centers in NBA for a long time assuming he stays healthy. Keep the bam ware duo together. Randle is a good player but going to eat into Jovic and ware minutes. Randle averaging 33 minutes a game. But if that move happens I wouldnt be upset. Would have a good rotation at pf and center.

[SA37]

Ware is starter from now on. Think if you get randle just delays development of ware. Ware putting up better stats than randle since ware became starter.

I'm not ready to coronate our "Wemby lite" for a handful of good performances. In any case, the "odd man out" is likely Jovic. In any case, Randle is only on the books for one more season, which gives Jovic and Ware time to continue to develop without having to deliver playoff wins for Miami.

I know most people don't like the idea of Randle in Miami, but I think he'd be an excellent addition.

It shouldn't affect Jovic at all if they simply play him at SF his natural position it would hurt Ware far more since it would push back Bam to C..

My opinion is Jovic doesn't have the athleticism to play SF full time. He's just not fluid enough. He rocks like a boat in troubled waters when he tries to defend smaller, quicker SFs.

[Shootit]

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UnRIP Fox to Miami talk.

[SA37]

Ware is starter from now on. Think if you get randle just delays development of ware. Ware putting up better stats than randle since ware became starter.

I'm not ready to coronate our "Wemby lite" for a handful of good performances. In any case, the "odd man out" is likely Jovic. In any case, Randle is only on the books for one more season, which gives Jovic and Ware time to continue to develop without having to deliver playoff wins for Miami.

I know most people don't like the idea of Randle in Miami, but I think he'd be an excellent addition.

Now that Spo has started to embrace big ball, maybe he takes it to the same extreme he took small ball to

PG: Jovic
SG: Herro
SF: Randle
PF: Bam
C: Ware

Need Keshad Johnson to come off the bench and start a fight every game, and Tyler Herro just gets the mega green light from 3

This could be a recipe for success

That would be a defensive nightmare. Jovic can't check PGs, Randle can't check SFs. Miami would be playing nothing but zone