2025 Regular Season Thread Vol. 5 - JIMMY BUTTWART EXTRAVAGANZA

[AirP.]

Spoiler:

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Now that there's hope for size at center in Miami, Spoelstra is scheming with the FO to get what he really wants at center.

Kevin talks about Brown playing center for Brooklyn early on in the video.

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Spoiler:

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[SA37]

Also I think we're 5-10 years past the point of citing basic boxscore numbers and thinking of them like we did in the 90's/00's/most of 10's, 25 points in today's game is like 20 points 10 years ago, and boards/assists are inflated as well, due to pace.

And yet there are only a handful of NBA players who get 20-9-4 per game: Embiid, Giannis, Doncic, Jokic...and that's about it.

I'm not arguing Randle is on their level. I'm just telling you he isn't the garbage player a lot of people here are painting him out to be. Despite you wanting to use advanced stats and what not, Randle has been an all-NBA player twice now. Voted on by people who know their ish.

And gtfoh "the wrong side of 30" He's literally 30y and 61 days

[SA37]

Are people seriously advocating for Julius Randle? Talented but maligned 3/4 tweener, who plays no defense and prefers to live on the perimeter chucking 3's or playing iso ball, we tried this 20 years ago, his name was Antoine Walker, I'll pass.

Thats nba champion and Heat’s 2nd leading scorer in the finals Antoine Walker!

[SA37]

Spoiler:

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Now that there's hope for size at center in Miami, Spoelstra is scheming with the FO to get what he really wants at center.

Kevin talks about Brown playing center for Brooklyn early on in the video.

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Spoiler:

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Brilliant

[heater4life]

A 3 team between MIA-GS-TOR

MIA-Brown,Payton, Kuminga
GS- Butler
TOR- Wiggins- Looney

That’s what I would like as a return for the Heat. Get one young piece, and 2 defensive guards to round out the roster.

[MettaWorldPanda]

A 3 team between MIA-GS-TOR

MIA-Brown,Payton, Kuminga
GS- Butler
TOR- Wiggins- Looney

That’s what I would like as a return for the Heat. Get one young piece, and 2 defensive guards to round out the roster.

Kuminga 100% will not be involved and the Heat don't want to deal with his contract either. He's essentially like dealing for a long term contract

[BBallFreak]

A 3 team between MIA-GS-TOR

MIA-Brown,Payton, Kuminga
GS- Butler
TOR- Wiggins- Looney

That’s what I would like as a return for the Heat. Get one young piece, and 2 defensive guards to round out the roster.

Kuminga 100% will not be involved and the Heat don't want to deal with his contract either. He's essentially like dealing for a long term contract

Absolutely agreed. You have to remember how inclusion in the trade was why Golden State dropped out in the first place.

[AirP.]

A 3 team between MIA-GS-TOR

MIA-Brown,Payton, Kuminga
GS- Butler
TOR- Wiggins- Looney

That’s what I would like as a return for the Heat. Get one young piece, and 2 defensive guards to round out the roster.

Kuminga 100% will not be involved and the Heat don't want to deal with his contract either. He's essentially like dealing for a long term contract

I'm with you on this; Miami is after bigger fish then Kuminga and are willing to wait till 2026 if they have to, until then you can live with development. Butler being moved closes the window for sure, a new window has to be created and Kuminga isn't helping create that window.

[Bishop45]

Randle's not a bad player, people just personally don't like him. He can be a goof and make a bad play, but most of the talk about him is based on narrative.

He's not very likeable, so he'll get little credit on helping the Knicks overachieve last year and much credit for Wolves demise this year. I don't care to argue about him too much, but c'mon folks

[MettaWorldPanda]

If we just did a 3 teamer with Toronto a deal could look like this

Heat get

C Kevon Looney
PF/C Chris Boucher
SG/SF Bruce Brown
PG Gary Payton 2

*All above expiring contracts

2027 1st rd pick from Warriors
2028 1st rd pick swap from Warriors
2025 and 2030 2nd rd picks


Warriors get

SF Jimmy Butler
PF/C Kevin Love


Raptors get

SF Andrew Wiggins
SG Josh Richardson
PF Kyle Anderson

Potential new lineup

C Kelel Ware C Kevon Looney PF/C Keshad Johnson
PF Bam Adebayo PF/C Chris Boucher PF/SF Haywood Highsmith
SF Nikola Jovic SF Jaime Jaquez Jr SF Pelle Larsson
SG Bruce Brown SG Duncan Robinson SG Alec Burks
PG Tyler Herro PG Gary Payton Jr PG Terry Rozier

[broke]

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So we would in essence be trading Jimmy for Bruce Brown and contract fillers? Unless there is a good amount of draft capital, then that is an epically low return.

What are you expecting for a 35 year old malcontent? The other option is he stays home and you possibly get even less next year or nothing at all. Heat wants expiring’s and picks.

Exactly right. Jimmy isn't a superstar who's going to net you an impressive return imo. He's a proven diva who once he gets bored becomes an absolute pain in the ass to deal with. I'm actually glad our FO is looking to maintain some cap flexibility going forward rather than handing out cash to average players that handicaps us for seasons.

[GopherIt!]

Are people seriously advocating for Julius Randle? Talented but maligned 3/4 tweener, who plays no defense and prefers to live on the perimeter chucking 3's or playing iso ball, we tried this 20 years ago, his name was Antoine Walker, I'll pass.

Spoiler:

Bruh, the guy averaged 24-9-5 last year on 47-31-78 and made the all-star team. He wasn't eligible for the All-NBA team (not that he would have made it necessarily), but he literally made the all-NBA team the season before that when he averaged 25-10-4 on 46-34-75.

Including this season, he has been an all-star 3 of the last 5 seasons and been all-NBA (one 2nd team and one 3rd team) 2 out of those 5 seasons.

It's fine if people don't like his playing style or whatever, but objectively the guy is a really f'n good basketball player and some of y'all are like "bUt WaRe aNd JoViC".

His advanced numbers paint a much worse picture, he's much more of a net neutral and sometimes even negative player, and he's now on the wrong side of 30.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01.html

Also I think we're 5-10 years past the point of citing basic boxscore numbers and thinking of them like we did in the 90's/00's/most of 10's, 25 points in today's game is like 20 points 10 years ago, and boards/assists are inflated as well, due to pace.

Yes. In my humble, non-biased opinion, it is a great idea. Plus it would make Bish happy.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Are people seriously advocating for Julius Randle? Talented but maligned 3/4 tweener, who plays no defense and prefers to live on the perimeter chucking 3's or playing iso ball, we tried this 20 years ago, his name was Antoine Walker, I'll pass.

Spoiler:

Bruh, the guy averaged 24-9-5 last year on 47-31-78 and made the all-star team. He wasn't eligible for the All-NBA team (not that he would have made it necessarily), but he literally made the all-NBA team the season before that when he averaged 25-10-4 on 46-34-75.

Including this season, he has been an all-star 3 of the last 5 seasons and been all-NBA (one 2nd team and one 3rd team) 2 out of those 5 seasons.

It's fine if people don't like his playing style or whatever, but objectively the guy is a really f'n good basketball player and some of y'all are like "bUt WaRe aNd JoViC".

His advanced numbers paint a much worse picture, he's much more of a net neutral and sometimes even negative player, and he's now on the wrong side of 30.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01.html

Also I think we're 5-10 years past the point of citing basic boxscore numbers and thinking of them like we did in the 90's/00's/most of 10's, 25 points in today's game is like 20 points 10 years ago, and boards/assists are inflated as well, due to pace.

Yes. In my humble, non-biased opinion, it is a great idea. Plus it would make Bish happy.

Wiggins and Kyle Anderson coming back home to the Wolves with Randle heading to Toronto with picks might not be a bad outcome.

[insfo]

Are people seriously advocating for Julius Randle? Talented but maligned 3/4 tweener, who plays no defense and prefers to live on the perimeter chucking 3's or playing iso ball, we tried this 20 years ago, his name was Antoine Walker, I'll pass.

Spoiler:

His advanced numbers paint a much worse picture, he's much more of a net neutral and sometimes even negative player, and he's now on the wrong side of 30.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/randlju01.html

Also I think we're 5-10 years past the point of citing basic boxscore numbers and thinking of them like we did in the 90's/00's/most of 10's, 25 points in today's game is like 20 points 10 years ago, and boards/assists are inflated as well, due to pace.

Yes. In my humble, non-biased opinion, it is a great idea. Plus it would make Bish happy.

Wiggins and Kyle Anderson coming back home to the Wolves with Randle heading to Toronto with picks might not be a bad outcome.

But then Bish won’t be happy

[greg4012]

Spoiler:

They're just better basketball players. It's not even close.

Now, I have no issue with the fact that you are excited about Miami's prospects and would like to see Miami acquire draft capital to perhaps enhance that down the road. I'm just telling you that this is not how Miami has operated historically. Riley LOVES veterans. Iguodala, PJ Tucker, K Love, Kyle Lowry, Trevor Ariza,...all acquired at 35<, I believe. (And this is precisely why Miami doesn't have any draft capital: it's all been traded away for....veterans.)

Also, no issue if you, or other posters, don't like Randle. All I'm saying is Miami has pursued/been interested Randle in the past. He's a Kentucky guy, like Riley. Like Adebayo. Like Herro. Like De'Aaron Fox. Randle has a similar size+skillset to guys Riley has loved or taken a chance on in the past, like Lamar Odom, Anthony Mason, Justise Winslow, Mike Beasley -- essentially Randle is what Miami wishes Beasley had become --, Antoine Walker....etc.

Again, I doubt Randle ends up in Miami before the deadline, but it's not impossible.

I'd bet a good amount of money that Kel'el Ware will have a more successful NBA career than Julius Randle--especially when it comes to winning playoff games. Players that need to be high usage and stop the ball in order to generate their own offense but don't generate quality efficient offense at a commensurate rate to justify their usage are traps. When those players are sub par defenders its worse.

I ain't gonna stop you from being a Randle fan. Nothing absolute about it tho.

It has nothing to do with being a Randle fan. He is a better player than Jovic or Ware right now and likely through the life of his current contract, if not longer. Middleton and Portis are clearly better players than Jovic or Ware right now and likely through the life of their current contract. You can say this for Wiggins, Beal, Lavine...etc pretty much anyone Miami has been linked to acquiring with the exception of Bruce Brown.

This is oversimplifying but, as a general rule, what makes veterans more valuable than rookies/quasi rookies is that you get a certain level of consistency that is generally lacking from inexperienced players. Of course, there are exceptions to that.

Jovic and Ware are not exceptions to that until they prove otherwise.

Consistently bad defense. Consistently stops ball movement. Consistently hunts a lower efficiency look than the offense can generate. Consistently turns to a turd in the playoffs. Consistently getting worse by the year with no indication of being able to play a lower usage complementary game. Consistency is something I agree with you about.

I really don't want to spend any more time even thinking about Julius Randle. The guy is completely fake good.

We disagree about him and see him differently when it comes to building a team that can win when it counts.

[inhabitMiami]

Don't know why we would need Toronto as part of that deal.

Wiggins, Schroeder, GP2, Looney for Jimmy, JRich, and Burks works out. Sort out whatever pick situation (if any). I wanna see what a halfway competent roster surrounding Herro/Bam/Ware looks like for the rest of the season. Everyone there is expiring except for Wiggins. Schroeder banishes Rozier to the end of the bench, we get a backup 5 in Looney, and GP2 is a Spo type player.

Herro/Duncan/Wiggins/Bam/Ware
Schroeder/GP2/Highsmith/Jovic/Looney

It's not a contender or anything but if the goal is not taking on long-term salary and improving the team the rest of the season then this is fine.

[inhabitMiami]

If we just did a 3 teamer with Toronto a deal could look like this

Heat get

C Kevon Looney
PF/C Chris Boucher
SG/SF Bruce Brown
PG Gary Payton 2

*All above expiring contracts

2027 1st rd pick from Warriors
2028 1st rd pick swap from Warriors
2025 and 2030 2nd rd picks


Warriors get

SF Jimmy Butler
PF/C Kevin Love


Raptors get

SF Andrew Wiggins
SG Josh Richardson
PF Kyle Anderson

Potential new lineup

C Kelel Ware C Kevon Looney PF/C Keshad Johnson
PF Bam Adebayo PF/C Chris Boucher PF/SF Haywood Highsmith
SF Nikola Jovic SF Jaime Jaquez Jr SF Pelle Larsson
SG Bruce Brown SG Duncan Robinson SG Alec Burks
PG Tyler Herro PG Gary Payton Jr PG Terry Rozier

What's in it for the Raptors?

[MettaWorldPanda]

Don't know why we would need Toronto as part of that deal.

Wiggins, Schroeder, GP2, Looney for Jimmy, JRich, and Burks works out. Sort out whatever pick situation (if any). I wanna see what a halfway competent roster surrounding Herro/Bam/Ware looks like for the rest of the season. Everyone there is expiring except for Wiggins. Schroeder banishes Rozier to the end of the bench, we get a backup 5 in Looney, and GP2 is a Spo type player.

Herro/Duncan/Wiggins/Bam/Ware
Schroeder/GP2/Highsmith/Jovic/Looney

It's not a contender or anything but if the goal is not taking on long-term salary and improving the team the rest of the season then this is fine.

Because we don’t want the years on Wiggins and Anderson’s contracts

[MettaWorldPanda]

If we just did a 3 teamer with Toronto a deal could look like this

Heat get

C Kevon Looney
PF/C Chris Boucher
SG/SF Bruce Brown
PG Gary Payton 2

*All above expiring contracts

2027 1st rd pick from Warriors
2028 1st rd pick swap from Warriors
2025 and 2030 2nd rd picks


Warriors get

SF Jimmy Butler
PF/C Kevin Love


Raptors get

SF Andrew Wiggins
SG Josh Richardson
PF Kyle Anderson

Potential new lineup

C Kelel Ware C Kevon Looney PF/C Keshad Johnson
PF Bam Adebayo PF/C Chris Boucher PF/SF Haywood Highsmith
SF Nikola Jovic SF Jaime Jaquez Jr SF Pelle Larsson
SG Bruce Brown SG Duncan Robinson SG Alec Burks
PG Tyler Herro PG Gary Payton Jr PG Terry Rozier

What's in it for the Raptors?

They get their prodigal son Maple Jordan heading back to his home for basically nothing.

[inhabitMiami]

Don't know why we would need Toronto as part of that deal.

Wiggins, Schroeder, GP2, Looney for Jimmy, JRich, and Burks works out. Sort out whatever pick situation (if any). I wanna see what a halfway competent roster surrounding Herro/Bam/Ware looks like for the rest of the season. Everyone there is expiring except for Wiggins. Schroeder banishes Rozier to the end of the bench, we get a backup 5 in Looney, and GP2 is a Spo type player.

Herro/Duncan/Wiggins/Bam/Ware
Schroeder/GP2/Highsmith/Jovic/Looney

It's not a contender or anything but if the goal is not taking on long-term salary and improving the team the rest of the season then this is fine.

Because we don’t want the years on Wiggins and Anderson’s contracts

The Wiggins contract isn't really that relevant. He's making 28mil and will more than likely opt out of his final year.

Anderson is not in this proposal.