The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely

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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#301 » by zzaj » Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:35 pm

Oh and one other thing...

Let's not pretend that these contracts are "equal" for both sides. Miami isn't contractually obligated to give Butler minutes. That's the benefit of giving a huge amount of money to an employee--you get to decide how they are used to best benefit your business.

On Butler's end, he gets years of generational wealth to show up ready for work--whether he gets to work or not is immaterial.

Now, there are all kinds of conditionals that could be legally problematic. i.e. Butler is perfectly healthy, and Miami doesn't play him which disallows him to reach offered milestone incentives in his contract...but this situation is not an example of one of those.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#302 » by davidv2001 » Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:38 pm

Big J wrote:
Ambrose wrote:
Big J wrote:
Maybe the Heat are the a**holes for not extending him or trading him to a team that will. Jimmy probably figures he’s **** if he plays and blows out a knee before his extension.


Spoiler: They aren't.

Jimmy isn't owed a max extension.


He isn’t owed a max extension, but the Suns are willing to give him one. I’d be pissed too if I were him.


How by chance, did Jimmy Butler and his camp find out that James Jones and the Phoenix Suns would be willing to give him that extension? Teams aren’t supposed to be talking with players of other teams.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#303 » by Nate505 » Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:44 pm

Big J wrote:
Ambrose wrote:
Big J wrote: And Jimmy isn’t obligated to screw himself to make the heat happy.


A 35 year old honoring his $50 million contract is doing his job, not screwing himself. You guys have completely lost the plot.


Then he blows out his knee and doesn’t get another contract. What he is doing is protecting his future earnings. I get why he’d rather sit out than “honor his contract “.


Fine, if he doesn't want to honor his contact, the Heat shouldn't pay him while he does so.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#304 » by AFM » Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:46 pm

Big J wrote:
AFM wrote:According to posters on this forum, players should sign fully guaranteed contracts then refuse to play because they might get injured and reduce future earnings.


Difference is that the Heat have the ability to extend him and aren't doing it, while other teams would be willing to. He's not doing this at the beginning of his contract.


Why would they extend him? He's not honoring his current contract, but he deserves another?

If I hire a plumber and he doesn't show up to work, I should hire him again?
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#305 » by Big J » Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:50 pm

AFM wrote:
Big J wrote:
AFM wrote:According to posters on this forum, players should sign fully guaranteed contracts then refuse to play because they might get injured and reduce future earnings.


Difference is that the Heat have the ability to extend him and aren't doing it, while other teams would be willing to. He's not doing this at the beginning of his contract.


Why would they extend him? He's not honoring his current contract, but he deserves another?

If I hire a plumber and he doesn't show up to work, I should hire him again?


That plumber already worked for you and did double the work that you paid him for. Now your neighbor is willing to double his pay, but you won't let him because he hasn't installed the final sink yet. He doesn't want to be hired by you again. He just wants to work for your neighbor.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#306 » by AFM » Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:54 pm

Big J wrote:
AFM wrote:
Big J wrote:
Difference is that the Heat have the ability to extend him and aren't doing it, while other teams would be willing to. He's not doing this at the beginning of his contract.


Why would they extend him? He's not honoring his current contract, but he deserves another?

If I hire a plumber and he doesn't show up to work, I should hire him again?


That plumber already worked for you and did double the work that you paid him for. Now your neighbor is willing to double his pay, but you won't let him because he hasn't installed the final sink yet. He doesn't want to be hired by you again. He just wants to work for your neighbor.


I don't really agree with any of that. He did double the work? His contract isn't up and he's not playing. The exact opposite is true, at least from my perspective.

If he wants to work for my neighbor, to continue with this analogy, he should finish out his contract, and then get hired by said neighbor.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#307 » by Drakeem » Wed Jan 29, 2025 8:56 pm

Big J wrote:
AFM wrote:
Big J wrote:
Difference is that the Heat have the ability to extend him and aren't doing it, while other teams would be willing to. He's not doing this at the beginning of his contract.


Why would they extend him? He's not honoring his current contract, but he deserves another?

If I hire a plumber and he doesn't show up to work, I should hire him again?


That plumber already worked for you and did double the work that you paid him for. Now your neighbor is willing to double his pay, but you won't let him because he hasn't installed the final sink yet. He doesn't want to be hired by you again. He just wants to work for your neighbor.
You realize if Butler REALLY wanted to have freedom to do what he wants, there are players like KD and Bron who lived off of short-term contracts to be able to dictate where they play and set themselves up for a big last contract.

Butler chose the safer route, but that safety net comes with its own cons that you have to live by.

Your plumber analogy is also wild. Yes, even if the plumber does an exceptional (better than expected) job on the majority of your home, they still need to finish the job they signed up for. If they took another contract and blew you off on your home while not finishing up what they legally signed up for, you can very much terminate the deal and not give them any of the remainder required + potentially take them to court bc now you have to find another person to finish the job you already got someone to do.

It's actually one of the biggest issues with contract work, and why a lot of people are incredibly weary about trusting a new person where they don't personally know their work ethic and background.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#308 » by SpreeChokeJob » Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:10 pm

I remember during Iguodala’s last year he said he was underpaid. Based on his play, he was delusional. A lot of these old players overrate their abilities. Iguodala was definitely cooked but his ego wasn’t. That’s where the conflict comes in, they believe they are worth something they are not. They think they are still that hot, fresh, young superstar where everyone caters to them.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#309 » by eldandy » Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:27 pm

Jimmy is an idiot who holds no cards. Riley is a stubborn geezer, and Jimmy will lose this battle because old man will be spiteful to prove his point. What? He's gonna opt it? So then he has another meltdown and Miami will suspend him again and take his money. Or imagine Jimmy spazzes out and gets in legit breach of contract to where it can get really nasty, So that would be his year 36 season wasted. So then the question is whats the going rate for a 37-year old malcontent who is prone to have tantrums? This is the game of chicken Jimmy is playing.

I doubt the PA will get a dime back for Jimmy,. Riley and Spo have been building their case all along the way step by step. They set up the traps, and Jimmy took the bait every single time like the petulant child he is. I haven't seen someone fall for such obvious traps since the bad guys from Home Alone. That is how dumb Jimmy is.

By comparison, look at Bradley Beal. PHX moved him out of the starting lineup around the time rumors of him potentially being asked to waive his no trade. In theory, you piss the player off in hopes of him waiving the no-trade to be be anywhere but your team. However, Beal is a pro and didn't take the bait. He is not gonna get baited into being somewhere he doesn't want to be. And instead of him spazzing out like Jimmy to a point where it becomes a conduct detrimental issue where the team can suspend him, Beal kept it cool.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#310 » by dshearn » Wed Jan 29, 2025 9:54 pm

Big J wrote:
AFM wrote:
Big J wrote:
Difference is that the Heat have the ability to extend him and aren't doing it, while other teams would be willing to. He's not doing this at the beginning of his contract.


Why would they extend him? He's not honoring his current contract, but he deserves another?

If I hire a plumber and he doesn't show up to work, I should hire him again?


That plumber already worked for you and did double the work that you paid him for. Now your neighbor is willing to double his pay, but you won't let him because he hasn't installed the final sink yet. He doesn't want to be hired by you again. He just wants to work for your neighbor.



More like....there are lots of plummers out there...but I paid one the max amount the Plummer's union would allow....then did not work to the job specifications that was negotiated with his union ...

There is no "double work"...at his pay rate maximum effort was always the expectation.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#311 » by Big J » Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:22 pm

dshearn wrote:
Big J wrote:
AFM wrote:
Why would they extend him? He's not honoring his current contract, but he deserves another?

If I hire a plumber and he doesn't show up to work, I should hire him again?


That plumber already worked for you and did double the work that you paid him for. Now your neighbor is willing to double his pay, but you won't let him because he hasn't installed the final sink yet. He doesn't want to be hired by you again. He just wants to work for your neighbor.



More like....there are lots of plummers out there...but I paid one the max amount the Plummer's union would allow....then did not work to the job specifications that was negotiated with his union ...

There is no "double work"...at his pay rate maximum effort was always the expectation.


You paid him for a bathroom remodel but it turns out he had to replace your sewer line in addition to the remodel in order to get the work done. Now you want him to swim in turd infested waters to finish the job, but he is afraid that he could die from dysentery.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#312 » by Black Jack » Wed Jan 29, 2025 10:28 pm

SpreeChokeJob wrote:I remember during Iguodala’s last year he said he was underpaid. Based on his play, he was delusional. A lot of these old players overrate their abilities. Iguodala was definitely cooked but his ego wasn’t. That’s where the conflict comes in, they believe they are worth something they are not. They think they are still that hot, fresh, young superstar where everyone caters to them.


Butler can still lead a run in the playoffs, maybe. Last year of Igoudala he was beyond washed for years.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#313 » by johanliebert » Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:52 pm

SpreeChokeJob wrote:I remember during Iguodala’s last year he said he was underpaid. Based on his play, he was delusional. A lot of these old players overrate their abilities. Iguodala was definitely cooked but his ego wasn’t. That’s where the conflict comes in, they believe they are worth something they are not. They think they are still that hot, fresh, young superstar where everyone caters to them.

Iguodala sacrificed his offence in GSW so i doubt he had much of an ego. Where did he say he was underpaid?
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#314 » by SpreeChokeJob » Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:02 am

johanliebert wrote:
SpreeChokeJob wrote:I remember during Iguodala’s last year he said he was underpaid. Based on his play, he was delusional. A lot of these old players overrate their abilities. Iguodala was definitely cooked but his ego wasn’t. That’s where the conflict comes in, they believe they are worth something they are not. They think they are still that hot, fresh, young superstar where everyone caters to them.

Iguodala sacrificed his offence in GSW so i doubt he had much of an ego. Where did he say he was underpaid?

Guy has an ego. Most athletes do. It depends on where they are in the pecking order where they are allowed to show it. Guy never ever stopped talking about how he was underpaid. It was balls ass annoying. It’s cute when he was producing, but when he was losing his edge, he never stopped talking about how he was taking less. He was cooked well done and thought he deserved more. Honestly the Warriors OVERPAID him because he was out the few remaining years barely playing. He took less to join the Warriors the first time, so it evened out, but it wasn’t like he didn’t get something out of playing for a championship team and talking to Silicon Valley venture capitalists.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#315 » by dshearn » Thu Jan 30, 2025 6:26 am

Big J wrote:
dshearn wrote:
Big J wrote:
That plumber already worked for you and did double the work that you paid him for. Now your neighbor is willing to double his pay, but you won't let him because he hasn't installed the final sink yet. He doesn't want to be hired by you again. He just wants to work for your neighbor.



More like....there are lots of plummers out there...but I paid one the max amount the Plummer's union would allow....then did not work to the job specifications that was negotiated with his union ...

There is no "double work"...at his pay rate maximum effort was always the expectation.


You paid him for a bathroom remodel but it turns out he had to replace your sewer line in addition to the remodel in order to get the work done. Now you want him to swim in turd infested waters to finish the job, but he is afraid that he could die from dysentery.



does not work that way....

You paid the Plummer the maximum amount he can be paid for multiple years of his labor. He knew the house when he decided to take the contract. There is no job to big....you paid him the max amount of money his union will allow him to take.

The Plummer can't just back out and decide he does not want to work for you any longer, when you have done everything by the code and rules of his union.... without being in breach of contract.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#316 » by xxSnEaKyPxx » Thu Jan 30, 2025 6:46 am

The best outcome and honestly the funniest outcome would be if Jimmy Butler never played another minute in the NBA.

Literally cannot understand why any team would want him. He’s a locker room cancer that has caused problems everywhere he has been. It’s not like he’s in his prime anymore and you can hope as he ages that he will mature, or hope that the situations he had been in was the other parties fault, it’s followed him around too much at this point. He’s going to destroy your teams locker room and he’s not good enough to justify putting up with his BS anymore.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#317 » by basketballto » Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:01 am

I wonder what happens if not paying Jimmy puts Miami under the line but then they lose the case next year. Would they recalculate the previous year and ask for money from Miami?
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#318 » by JujitsuFlip » Thu Jan 30, 2025 9:40 am

basketballto wrote:I wonder what happens if not paying Jimmy puts Miami under the line but then they lose the case next year. Would they recalculate the previous year and ask for money from Miami?
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2025/01/hoops-rumors-glossary-tax-variance.html

Since it was a suspension imposed by the team and not the league, no change to the tax bill.

"For instance, when the Heat suspended Jimmy Butler for seven games, it cost him $2,355,798 (7/145ths of his $48,798,677 salary), but it didn’t change Miami’s cap or tax situation at all".
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#319 » by itrsteve » Thu Jan 30, 2025 1:54 pm

Big J wrote:You paid him for a bathroom remodel but it turns out he had to replace your sewer line in addition to the remodel in order to get the work done. Now you want him to swim in turd infested waters to finish the job, but he is afraid that he could die from dysentery.


Wait, what? That's a top 10 reach, even for this place.

I could see if Miami was in shambles but they aren't. He's just being a little bitch that the team can't autocarry him to an above-the-play-in line for the playoffs then he can show up for work.

If anybody works in sales, it's the equivalent of that VP/RVP/etc who does nothing to support you during your 12-18 month sales cycle but then gets real interested at the very very end when it's about to close so they can put their name on it.

He signed a solid 3yr extension when he was ~33. That's a delicate age window on the backside of that contract and should have went for longer money even if it was less per year. That's a gamble he took on himself and probably has came to grips half way through that contract that it will be difficult to be the same Jimmy at the end of it.
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Re: The Miami Heat are suspending Jimmy Butler indefinitely 

Post#320 » by Ssj16 » Thu Jan 30, 2025 2:03 pm

Big J wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:
Nate505 wrote:Counterpoint: **** him, he can play his contract out or not


Yes, I would hate if this guy gets his way and get awarded for acting like complete d-bag. I hope Heat proves their legitimacy for suspending him and he does not get a single penny for these next two years. You do not reward a**holes who think they can push around everyone in their life to get their way.


Maybe the Heat are the a**holes for not extending him or trading him to a team that will. Jimmy probably figures he’s **** if he plays and blows out a knee before his extension.


Do you know how contracts work?

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