Has There Ever Been A Less Worthy Jersey Retirement Than Vince Carter for the Nets?

[hisairness]

Pretty pathetic. Seems like they just did it to be petty towards the Raptors and of course the soft Raptors caved and immediately retired his jersey as well even though he sulked his way out of the city by refusing to dunk, telling the other team the Raptors plays and basically sabotaging them until he was traded.

He literally dunked in the next game after he said it, it was his annoyed answer to a stupid question, Vince said later he wasn't serious. Neither his teammates nor opponents ever confirmed he gave a play away. Him and Sam Mitchell butted heads from the moment Mitchell was hired, Vince's effort was definitely lacking that year but it had a lot to do with Mitchell trying to implement a "team" concept that kept the ball away from Vince. Some of it was deserved but Toronto media had it our for Vince in that last year and were putting lots of BS stories like the ones in your post.

It’s pretty obvious from Ray Allen and Reggie Evans comments that it happened but keep rewriting history to fit your narrative https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/ray-allen-on-vince-carter-tipping-off-sonics-about-raptors-late-game-play

Yeah, narrative
Allen: " "I didn't hear it, but that's what those other guys were saying". He doesn't name any of those other guys. Who are they, why didn't they step forward?

Evans:"I'm not saying it did happen or it didn't happen". Damn, so pretty obvious. They had ESPN segments about it and they couldn't find any audio or visual evidence but you know it definitely happened. Ok

[2020]

Nets made the playoffs in 3 of the 5 post seasons.
They made it out of the first round 2 times
They made it out of the second round 0 times.
They were SWEPT in the first round 1 time.

Are we talking about the Vince Carter/Jason Kidd/Richard Jefferson/Kenyon Martin Nets?

If so, didn't they lose to the Lakers in the FInals and also made the ECF like 2 or 3 times?

[Homer38]

Nets made the playoffs in 3 of the 5 post seasons.
They made it out of the first round 2 times
They made it out of the second round 0 times.
They were SWEPT in the first round 1 time.

Are we talking about the Vince Carter/Jason Kidd/Richard Jefferson/Kenyon Martin Nets?

If so, didn't they lose to the Lakers in the FInals and also made the ECF like 2 or 3 times?

The nets make the finals in the 2002 and 2003 season...Carter was traded to the nets in the 2005 season.Martin was also with the Nuggets in 2005

[Kingdibs19]

He literally dunked in the next game after he said it, it was his annoyed answer to a stupid question, Vince said later he wasn't serious. Neither his teammates nor opponents ever confirmed he gave a play away. Him and Sam Mitchell butted heads from the moment Mitchell was hired, Vince's effort was definitely lacking that year but it had a lot to do with Mitchell trying to implement a "team" concept that kept the ball away from Vince. Some of it was deserved but Toronto media had it our for Vince in that last year and were putting lots of BS stories like the ones in your post.

It’s pretty obvious from Ray Allen and Reggie Evans comments that it happened but keep rewriting history to fit your narrative https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/ray-allen-on-vince-carter-tipping-off-sonics-about-raptors-late-game-play

Yeah, narrative
Allen: " "I didn't hear it, but that's what those other guys were saying". He doesn't name any of those other guys. Who are they, why didn't they step forward?

Evans:"I'm not saying it did happen or it didn't happen". Damn, so pretty obvious. They had ESPN segments about it and they couldn't find any audio or visual evidence but you know it definitely happened. Ok

Right so you wanted Ray and Reggie to give up the teammates names? And then what happens? Vince cries and is upset and the NBA players association is mad at the guys for going against the “brotherhood”. The fact that they would say this much unprovoked tells you that it did happen but I guess you’re one of those dense suburban kids that needs everything spelled out for you.

[D.Brasco]

Nets made the playoffs in 3 of the 5 post seasons.
They made it out of the first round 2 times
They made it out of the second round 0 times.
They were SWEPT in the first round 1 time.

Are we talking about the Vince Carter/Jason Kidd/Richard Jefferson/Kenyon Martin Nets?

If so, didn't they lose to the Lakers in the FInals and also made the ECF like 2 or 3 times?

That finals series showdown between VC and Kobe was epic.

[chrbal]

[hisairness]

It’s pretty obvious from Ray Allen and Reggie Evans comments that it happened but keep rewriting history to fit your narrative https://www.basketballnetwork.net/old-school/ray-allen-on-vince-carter-tipping-off-sonics-about-raptors-late-game-play

Yeah, narrative
Allen: " "I didn't hear it, but that's what those other guys were saying". He doesn't name any of those other guys. Who are they, why didn't they step forward?

Evans:"I'm not saying it did happen or it didn't happen". Damn, so pretty obvious. They had ESPN segments about it and they couldn't find any audio or visual evidence but you know it definitely happened. Ok

Right so you wanted Ray and Reggie to give up the teammates names? And then what happens? Vince cries and is upset and the NBA players association is mad at the guys for going against the “brotherhood”. The fact that they would say this much unprovoked tells you that it did happen but I guess you’re one of those dense suburban kids that needs everything spelled out for you.

Jalen Rose is indirectly calling them liars, if I really heard and saw it why would I be afraid to say it? Because of your made up going against the "brotherhood" scenario, like it's some mafia code violations. Be real. Cameras everywhere, everything is mic'd and the only person on the record that is implying it happened was Reggie Evans. Believe what you want, but since you're incapable of discussing things without personal insults you're not worth responding to any further.

[Stone]

The OP and other poster's have made good points. But hey, someone has to be the least worthy and I am ok with it being Vince. During the Nets NBA tenure there has only been a small number of memorable 3-4 year runs. The Vince J Kidd era was one of them. Vince was and still is a great ambassador of the game.

[OdomFan]

I don't think its less worthy at all. Championship or no championship, pairing up Carter with Kidd is one of the biggest things to ever happen with the New Jersey Nets. They sold a lot of tickets together. Made the franchise a lot of cash. I feel that some times thats enough for things like this.

Unfortunately for them they came together around the same time that Sheed joined the Pistons, then a year later Shaq went to Miami, etc, and by the time all the of that happened Kidd and Carter went their separate ways. Anyway, I don't have a problem with this.

[Kingdibs19]

Yeah, narrative
Allen: " "I didn't hear it, but that's what those other guys were saying". He doesn't name any of those other guys. Who are they, why didn't they step forward?

Evans:"I'm not saying it did happen or it didn't happen". Damn, so pretty obvious. They had ESPN segments about it and they couldn't find any audio or visual evidence but you know it definitely happened. Ok

Right so you wanted Ray and Reggie to give up the teammates names? And then what happens? Vince cries and is upset and the NBA players association is mad at the guys for going against the “brotherhood”. The fact that they would say this much unprovoked tells you that it did happen but I guess you’re one of those dense suburban kids that needs everything spelled out for you.

Jalen Rose is indirectly calling them liars, if I really heard and saw it why would I be afraid to say it? Because of your made up going against the "brotherhood" scenario, like it's some mafia code violations. Be real. Cameras everywhere, everything is mic'd and the only person on the record that is implying it happened was Reggie Evans. Believe what you want, but since you're incapable of discussing things without personal insults you're not worth responding to any further.

“Mafia codes” lol so I was right about the suburban kid. No it’s not Mafia code, it’s called not snitching on your teammates. And it’s looked down upon in the culture, ask D’Angelo or Kobe since you definitely are too dense to understand the culture calling it Mafia codes lmao.

[xxSnEaKyPxx]

There has been plenty.

Nick Collison Thunder.
MJ Heat
Nate Thurmond Cavaliers

I can't hate on Nick Collison's retirement. Dude spent what, 14 years, with the same franchise? Just because you aren't a world class player doesn't mean you can't bring a lot to a Franchise and to do it for that long deserves recognition as that is wild to spend that long with one team.

I've always argued that I'd like to see the Pacers retire Jeff Foster's number. Dude just gave his all to the team for over a decade. Players like that deserve their flowers to.

[Scalabrine]

Nets made the playoffs in 3 of the 5 post seasons.
They made it out of the first round 2 times
They made it out of the second round 0 times.
They were SWEPT in the first round 1 time.

Are we talking about the Vince Carter/Jason Kidd/Richard Jefferson/Kenyon Martin Nets?

If so, didn't they lose to the Lakers in the FInals and also made the ECF like 2 or 3 times?

Are you so lazy that you can't even use the internet to fact check me or are you just mistaking Vince Carter for Keith Van Horn?

[Scalabrine]

Right so you wanted Ray and Reggie to give up the teammates names? And then what happens? Vince cries and is upset and the NBA players association is mad at the guys for going against the “brotherhood”. The fact that they would say this much unprovoked tells you that it did happen but I guess you’re one of those dense suburban kids that needs everything spelled out for you.

Jalen Rose is indirectly calling them liars, if I really heard and saw it why would I be afraid to say it? Because of your made up going against the "brotherhood" scenario, like it's some mafia code violations. Be real. Cameras everywhere, everything is mic'd and the only person on the record that is implying it happened was Reggie Evans. Believe what you want, but since you're incapable of discussing things without personal insults you're not worth responding to any further.

“Mafia codes” lol so I was right about the suburban kid. No it’s not Mafia code, it’s called not snitching on your teammates. And it’s looked down upon in the culture, ask D’Angelo or Kobe since you definitely are too dense to understand the culture calling it Mafia codes lmao.

Get a grip kid. No need to act like a jerk.

[SeanieWard]

This is a stupid OP.

I loved Vince as a Net and he's had tons of highlights during that stretch.

The worst part is framing 4.5 years out of 22. So you'd be fine with it if he stopped playing in his 10th year? You're faulting him for the longevity and 10+ seasons he had as a vet on various teams. He is knows as a Raptor and as a Net.

He also has his most playoff games as a Net. and winning RANGZ is not a requirement for getting your jersey retired. That VC Nets teams lost twice to the Wade/Shaq Heat including the year the Heat won the title, and they lost to young Lebron Cavs the year they went to the finals. Sometimes there are better teams in your way, doesn't diminish your own accomplishments.

Let's not frame it like the VC Nets were a good team that just had some juggernauts in the way. The VC Nets were not a good team. They rode the last wave of the Jason Kidd contender contender era, and then flamed out as a 34 win team in back to back seasons where they missed the playoffs.

I framed it that way because you have guys, like Nick Collison, who got the jersey retired because they spent their entire (or vast majority) of their career in one spot and became one of the faces of the team. Collison played all 14 years with the same franchise. He didn't put up insane numbers. But you can rationalize why he they wanted to retire his number. Thats why I mentioned that he only played 4.5 of his 22 years there. There was no hidden agenda. That was the reason.

I disagree that he's known as a Net. He's known as a Raptor. His most iconic part of his career was as a Raptor. I grew up in the NY/NJ area and his tenure with the Nets was short and forgettable.

You couldn't be more wrong tbh. As a Nets fan since Sam Cassell was the starting PG in 97-98, Vince Carter is easily one of the most popular Nets of all time. Go to any Nets board and see any forum or poll by Nets fan on who their favorite player of all time is and you'll see that after JKidd, VC is probably 2 or 3 on the list. The truth is, the Nets don't have too much rich history to begin with so a guy like Vince who was a superstar that played for the franchise at the tail end of his prime, did a lot to rejuvenate for the franchise and fanbase while also rejuvenating his own career.

You have every right to feel that the bar is low, but just know that the overwhelming majority of Nets Nation are elated with Vince's jersey retirement and that is undisputable.

[Capn'O]

Kind of dubious as he didn't have the same cultural and organizational impact as he did with Toronto, but I think it's more the Nets retiring a player that played great for them that is a HOF so as much retiring VC for his HOF career as much if not moreso than his specific time with the Nets.

but also, as of today for the Nets he's
# 3 in points
# 7 in assists
# 6 in triple doubles
# 5 in PPG
# 6 in PER
# 5 in Plus/Minus
# 3 in VOR

but I tend to agree, it wasn't really warranted for his time with the Nets.

I think you're getting to it. These are the Nets retired Jerseys:

3: Dražen Petrović
5: Jason Kidd
15: Vince Carter
23: John Williamson
25: Bill Melchionni
32: Julius Erving
52: Charles “Buck” Williams

Jason Kidd is the only other relatively recent name that casual fans really know. Then you go way back to Dr. J. I don't think Deron gets the same kind of pull or respect and KG and Pierce just... remind them of what they did.

Carter's a pretty safe name who everyone loves. He played his ass off for them and then he left. It's probably as simple as that.

[shi-woo]

Have yall been to a Nets game since moving to BRK? They are all about image and looking "cool" so having the guy who's nickname is literally Half man half amazing kinda fits the bill. They have Jay Z and Biggie's jerseys in the rafters too BRK puts a ton into their marketing, and making Vince, the Human Highlight reel, a part of the family for life is incredible marketing.

I also have no issues with MIA retiring MJ's 23. Hes on another level than most guys in terms of legacy, and whenever you see 23 you instantly know why that player chose it. Even LeBron couldn't overcome it, it was always Jordan's number, and it always will be. Eventually, like another poster stated, all teams are going to retire 23, I honestly think the NBA is just waiting for LeBron to retire, and they'll make a big ceremony about it where both dudes come walking out. It will be awkward like that horrible Shaq and Kobe interview once they both hung em up, and we're all going to hate it.

[Gatorade Sax]

Phoenix/Cavs better get that Shaq jersey in the rafters asap.

You mean Celtics legend Shaq?

The very same.

Figured they already had a few in the rafters though

[doogie_hauser]

Vince did a lot of reputation repair, but as a fan I soured on him for a while because of that. Going to NBA games was a rare treat growing up and then in college there was a game the Blazers played against the Raptors. I was a huge Vince fan as many were when I got the ticket, but then he started to do the sabotage stuff you described and refused to dunk and put on a show. He finished the game with 4 points and just about the lousiest effort I had ever seen.

So he was the original Jimmy Butler?

100%. There was half the fanbase that "didn't" want his jersey retired for these exact reasons. Then you have the other half who acknowledges his faults but understands what he did for the Raptors and the popularity of basketball in Canada.

I was actually really moved and almost shed a few tears when I saw Vinsanity's retirement ceremony last year for the Raps (one of the best ones I have seen actually, class all around from the Toronto organisation)

I get the impression Vince C still considers a Raptors person at heart and he loved/still loves the fans, despite the sad way his time at the club ended.

I cannot actually remember the the final days of VC as a Raptor, but as I say, his retirement ceremony was absolutely wonderful and moving viewing, and I hope in time, those Raptors who still harbour a grudge/ill will against VC can forgive him


I am a much happier Celtics fan these days knowing Ray Ray (Allen) has made peace with his former teammates and the fans. (Still a bit mad with Kendrick Perkins and his often annoying overly critical comments about the Celts)

[2020]

Nets made the playoffs in 3 of the 5 post seasons.
They made it out of the first round 2 times
They made it out of the second round 0 times.
They were SWEPT in the first round 1 time.

Are we talking about the Vince Carter/Jason Kidd/Richard Jefferson/Kenyon Martin Nets?

If so, didn't they lose to the Lakers in the FInals and also made the ECF like 2 or 3 times?

The nets make the finals in the 2002 and 2003 season...Carter was traded to the nets in the 2005 season.Martin was also with the Nuggets in 2005

Yeah, I fact-checked right after posting (but did not edit) and realized their success came before the Vince trade with Kidd, Kittles, Keith Van Horn, Martin and some guy named BRIAN SCALABRINI

That was a fun fast break Nets team to watch although i've always been a Knick fan.

But yes I agree that would have made it even stranger to retire his number on the Nets

[papfankon]

Without wanting to direct any heat towards you OP, but your comments sort of highlight some of my biggest gripes rooting for Nets and Vince at that time. Very few people gave a **** in the general area ( hence your vague remembrance) and that is why they couldn't even fill nba finals games the previous years. The knicks sucked consistently and the energy around their teams was like they were the defending champs. Cheap owner not willing to spend to compete and non-existent fan base (apart for a few and passionate ones) ruined some of the best Vince and J- KIdd years.

Having said all that,i agree with the sentiment of your post and when i saw the headlines i thought it was bordeline sad on many levels.