2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part III

[bwgood77]

"Brad worked really hard to earn a no-trade clause. We earned it and we have it -- and it is really valuable," Beal's agent Mark Bartelstein told ESPN. "Does that mean that he would never, ever accept a trade? No. You always have an open mind and you always are willing to listen to things that you think might be great.

"But at this time, there's nothing we're considering. His entire energy and focus is on helping the Suns win. So all of this speculation that people keep writing about is really just people using their imagination."

ESPN talked to multiple team executives who said Beal not eliminating his no-trade clause is a deal-breaker in a trade.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/43597721/how-bradley-beal-controls-nba-trade-deadline-phoenix-suns-kevin-durant-devin-booker

Bradley Beal bailing out Ishbia if this deal falls through

To be clear, that last sentence refers to him being unwilling to take the NTC out of his existing contract if he agreed on a trade. Meaning, say, he was ok to go to the Bulls or something, he would still not remove his NTC as a condition of the trade (enabling the Bulls to trade him at their whim later).

That is what kills the deal for many teams. That's what the executives mean is a deal breaker. They know any contract is movable with so many big and bad contracts, but when it's not up to you, they don't want that.

But I don't blame him (mainly because he has a wife and 3 young sons).

[lilfishi22]

Can we say it out loud. Bogdon to the Suns is redundant and mostly pointless. It’s just making a trade to make a trade.

Sometimes a change of scenery breeds more positive value than what the trade is on paper

[Sunsdeuce]

Beal is probably the smartest NBA player of all time. Cant fault him for controlling his own destiny. Not only is he getting paid millions to play a sport most people play after work, he gets to control where he will live. Best of all worlds.

It’s not his fault, Ishbia agreed to trade for him and destroy the Suns salary cap. Anyone want to get mad at someone, get mad at Ishbia and Jones.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

I just recently was having such a discussion on this with someone on this board! And ironically regarding the same points being made here by others. If giving up one of our very last remaining assets, why do it for positional redundancy? Why not actually look to address positions of need over positions we already have very expensive depth at? These decisions are looking more and more asinine cumulatively as wee go forward!

And I said for Allen and a 1st, it wasn't worth it .

If you can get a deal done while dropping a negative asset in Nurk, that is very clearly a different deal to trading a positive asset in Allen.

[bwgood77]

I know people say Ishbia is not stupid, must be smart because he built up a company etc., but like, everything he's done here suggests...maybe not?

You can also often times just fail upwards in business if you have the right connections/family. That being said I don't particularly care to investigate his background.

But if I knew nothing about this guy and was working in the front office, I'd probably think he was kind of a moron.

But hey win a championship with this group of players I'll put a picture of him at my bedside.

Also Bradley Beal should get his jersey retired if this team gets blown up over the summer. And next year he can take 52 shots per game.

Also, I don't know how much people here know about finance, and real estate, and mortgages, but there was the first real estate huge bubble in years, because lenders were giving everyone mortgages, even people with bad credit, no credit, etc, and they were selling these mortgages to brokerage houses which were lumping them into huge mutual type fund investments they called "mortgage backed securities" which sounds great, and then people bought these funds thinking they were valuable.

Real estate prices kept going up hand over fist in the early 2000s because of this. I worked with people who made like $40K and were buy 2 or 3 houses to rent thinking housing will double in price every few years...

Anyway, I could get into the details of why it busted, but it was unsustainable and people simply did not make enough at their jobs to pay their mortgages. They had kept afloat by refinancing their houses and taking more loans against them.

Anyway, there is a movie called The Big Short that is very good and goes into this.

And I understand I am probably telling most people here things they already know, but in that climate, it would have been very easy to build a mortgage company with the timing.

It would be like some guy investing in tech stocks in 97 and then having to sell everything in January of 2000 and everyone calling him a genius. No, he was lucky. It was a huge overpriced bubble that crushed multiple peoples riches within a few months starting in March and went on for years before recovering.

The way Ish tries to build the Suns kind of reminds me of these bubbles.

[Sunsdeuce]

Can we say it out loud. Bogdon to the Suns is redundant and mostly pointless. It’s just making a trade to make a trade.

Sometimes a change of scenery breeds more positive value than what the trade is on paper

I’m not going to argue the change of scenery thing.

My point is, this whole roster is combo guards. Booker, Beal, O’Neal, Allen, Dunn to a degree. Now you add another player to the same group. Just makes no sense. We have 4 centers and a bunch of combo guards and a PG. jones has never accomplished a balanced roster since he has been here.

[Slim Charless]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/43597721/how-bradley-beal-controls-nba-trade-deadline-phoenix-suns-kevin-durant-devin-booker

Bradley Beal bailing out Ishbia if this deal falls through

To be clear, that last sentence refers to him being unwilling to take the NTC out of his existing contract if he agreed on a trade. Meaning, say, he was ok to go to the Bulls or something, he would still not remove his NTC as a condition of the trade (enabling the Bulls to trade him at their whim later).

That is what kills the deal for many teams. That's what the executives mean is a deal breaker. They know any contract is movable with so many big and bad contracts, but when it's not up to you, they don't want that.

But I don't blame him (mainly because he has a wife and 3 young sons).

It'd be utter lunacy if he removed the NTC. There's not a single reason for him to do that. Not a single one. I'm annoyed that all these rumors have been with a idea that he'd ever remove it for good.

Just wasting ppl time with these trade stuff if they think he's gonna take it off lol

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I wonder who Sidery's source is because reporting that we're still sending trade packages, daily, suggests he has a source so close he's getting almost daily updates

[lilfishi22]

Wouldn't help this year it seems with the injury but a good trade for Nurkic

Great trade for Nurkic. It's rather just attach to a Book trade in the summer, should it happen. This would be fine though. Get Kolek who can maybe be PGOTF and Mitch.

This trade makes sense to me more than Bogdanovich from Hawks

Suns just need to move on from Butler

I'd probably do it solely to get Kolek. I fully expect Mitch Rob to give us no more than a season high of maybe a dozen games

[Sunsdeuce]

Per Gerald Bourguet via Bluesky

According to a source, the Suns are not interested in trading for Bogdan Bogdanovic. There was a report earlier today they might be interested in adding Bogey while unloading Jusuf Nurkic’s contract to Atlanta

[They_Them_Hatin]

After watching this team again last night, I think the emphasis needs to be fire. If this team makes a trade, it need to be for a player with fire.

As soon as Anthony Edwards started showing fire and passion, Minny took control because we have no player with the same fire and passion at his level.

You can’t teach desire and fire. I’m not sure at their point, we can even trade for it. Booker and/or KD has to go.

I’m not tied to Booker like some of you are here. Some of you think we owe him something, or that he’s a blessing to the state. I mean he does a few things here and there for AZ but he isn’t and was never invested in Phx like Larry Fitzgerald or Dan Majerle. Again, I’m cool with giving him a tribute video when he’s traded but he ain’t on my list of all time favorite Suns. He’s just stat stuffing points at this point and I don’t care about stats. I want wins!

I agree about fire, but thinking about it lately, you even look back at that team from a few years ago, led by Paul, with Bridges, Cam, Ayton. They loved playing together the year they went to the finals and the next regular season. They had chemistry, joy, were having fun, and they thrived playing together.

I think this team was actually doing ok when Beal came back from his back last year. They were still finding their groove all year but once he came back they were 33-18.

This year we started off hot, even if mostly pulling out close wins

But thinking about that recent report that something changed for Jimmy when the Suns went to Brooklyn, like there was a backdoor "come play with us" and suddenly KD/Book or whoever may have been in on that (assuming it happened), the rumors start to fly, and any chemistry, joy, etc, and all that just drains out of a room when you know players are talking to players on other teams and your front office is shopping you. I don't know that it bothers Beal a ton but with Nurkic it certainly does. But regardless, it impacts things. Then Grayson Allen, a career year from 3, plays fewer minutes...rumors about him being traded.

When one star is going behind the scenes (or 2), but I think a bit more of KD because he did it in Brooklyn convincing them to get rid of quality people like Kenny Atkinson, Jarrett Allen to get his buddy Deandre Jordan there, etc, and then he later wanted Nash gone after wanting him over Atkinson. Atkinson and Allen now looking pretty damn good in Cleveland.

I think a team really has to play together, like playing together, etc, to be really successful. It's possible without it, but i think it's a lot harder than a team not being on the same page, or wondering if they are getting traded or if their teammates want them gone, etc, are. I think most of the best basketball people know this. I think KD tries to go put together super teams after his GS experience behind the scenes and GM his own team as much as he can...with those Cleveland moves, then forcing his way to Phx, then him and Book calling and convincing Beal to come, getting rid of Paul, etc. And Book seems to worship KD for some reason, so he just follows along, not realizing that what made that finals team and team next year great was the chemistry and joy playing together (aside from Paul's great leadership, clutchness and intangibles).

I wish we had a strong owner/GM who would not bow to the will of players and simply wouldn't have players who put themselves above the organization and team.

KD never wanted Nash. He wanted Ty Lue. Sean Marks wanted his bff Nash. Jarrett Allen disappeared in the playoffs to the point he’s been memed to death. Once again Booker is almost 30. It’s pathetic that he let a grown man influence him which I doubt because this has always been who he was. If you want to blame KD for the world at least get your facts straight.

[Qwigglez]

I wonder who Sidery's source is because reporting that we're still sending trade packages, daily, suggests he has a source so close he's getting almost daily updates

I just asked ChatGPT

Spoiler:

Are the Phoenix Suns still trying to acquire Jimmy Butler before the trade deadline?

Yes, the Phoenix Suns are still actively trying to acquire Jimmy Butler before the NBA trade deadline. It's reported as a top priority for the Suns, and both parties seem to be open about their interest in making the deal happen before the deadline on February 6, 2025

Some reports mentioned that the Suns are pulling away from trying to acquire Jimmy Butler. But then Evan Sidery reported that is untrue. So it's hard to tell who is correct here.

It can definitely be confusing when reports conflict like that. Evan Sidery is known for his close tracking of the Phoenix Suns, so his updates might be more directly connected to the team's immediate situation. If he's contradicting other reports, it might be based on newer information or sources closer to the Suns' management. It might be a good idea to keep an eye on updates from both him and other reliable sports news sources as the trade deadline approaches to get the most accurate picture of what's happening.

Who do you think Evan Sidery's sources are?

While I can't say exactly who Evan Sidery's sources are, it's common for sports journalists like him to have contacts within the team organization, including front office executives, coaches, and sometimes the players themselves. They may also have connections with agents and other figures around the league who are privy to negotiations and team strategies. These sources typically provide insights under the condition of anonymity, which allows journalists to report on sensitive information like trade discussions.

[lilfishi22]

Can we say it out loud. Bogdon to the Suns is redundant and mostly pointless. It’s just making a trade to make a trade.

Sometimes a change of scenery breeds more positive value than what the trade is on paper

I’m not going to argue the change of scenery thing.

My point is, this whole roster is combo guards. Booker, Beal, O’Neal, Allen, Dunn to a degree. Now you add another player to the same group. Just makes no sense. We have 4 centers and a bunch of combo guards and a PG. jones has never accomplished a balanced roster since he has been here.

We will have redundancy yes, but it also makes Allen more tradeable and because he's a positive asset, we could improve in one of our other positions without losing much in the back court.

[Qwigglez]

Per Gerald Bourguet via Bluesky

According to a source, the Suns are not interested in trading for Bogdan Bogdanovic. There was a report earlier today they might be interested in adding Bogey while unloading Jusuf Nurkic’s contract to Atlanta

Yup.
The Suns hit up Atlanta to sell them on Bradley Beal, not Nurkic.

[They_Them_Hatin]

I’m fine with Bogdan for Nurkic if it leads to getting Nance in a separate deal. Other than that, I don’t see why they do that deal.

[bwgood77]

Beal is probably the smartest NBA player of all time. Cant fault him for controlling his own destiny. Not only is he getting paid millions to play a sport most people play after work, he gets to control where he will live. Best of all worlds.

It’s not his fault, Ishbia agreed to trade for him and destroy the Suns salary cap. Anyone want to get mad at someone, get mad at Ishbia and Jones.

Beal is a scapegoat for many fans. He hasn't always played great but puts effort on defense (moreso than most) and has mostly played pretty well.

He is overpaid for sure.

But my main point is, had we not traded for him it's not like we'd be in much different of a situation. We would be over the salary cap if we didn't trade for him, even if we simply let Paul and Shamet expire.

The salary cap is $140 million and our payroll is $214 million.

If we didn't have him (and didn't trade Paul for Jordan Poole) or anything, then the only difference right now would be we'd likely have the same players but be able to combine them in trades, and wouldn't be at risk of our picks being frozen because of the apron. We would also probably have been able to use our MLE one year and then our tax MLE the next year.

But I doubt anything meaningful enough to make a big difference.

But the team is run by KD and Book and they called up Beal, convinced him.

I would say KD (and Book) should have maybe learned their lessons in this respect if they are unhappy they did that but I think they more care about playing with other stars they like. I think they convince themselves this may be a chance to win in the playoffs, but if they do it again with Jimmy, when it has failed and we are 2 years down the line, all fans are mad at Jimmy, and we are having the same conversations (those of us who have stuck it out) it feels it would be the same thing.

I still don't see how we get Jimmy though. Even if Beal completely took the NTC out of his contract, I just don't see it happening.

I do think Beal would look a lot better though if he was in a place like Orlando that had forwards/bigs/defense, like Franz/Paolo/Bitadze/Suggs and needed a guy to score from the guard spot.

[bwgood77]

I wonder who Sidery's source is because reporting that we're still sending trade packages, daily, suggests he has a source so close he's getting almost daily updates

I just asked ChatGPT

Spoiler:

Are the Phoenix Suns still trying to acquire Jimmy Butler before the trade deadline?

Yes, the Phoenix Suns are still actively trying to acquire Jimmy Butler before the NBA trade deadline. It's reported as a top priority for the Suns, and both parties seem to be open about their interest in making the deal happen before the deadline on February 6, 2025

Some reports mentioned that the Suns are pulling away from trying to acquire Jimmy Butler. But then Evan Sidery reported that is untrue. So it's hard to tell who is correct here.

It can definitely be confusing when reports conflict like that. Evan Sidery is known for his close tracking of the Phoenix Suns, so his updates might be more directly connected to the team's immediate situation. If he's contradicting other reports, it might be based on newer information or sources closer to the Suns' management. It might be a good idea to keep an eye on updates from both him and other reliable sports news sources as the trade deadline approaches to get the most accurate picture of what's happening.

Who do you think Evan Sidery's sources are?

While I can't say exactly who Evan Sidery's sources are, it's common for sports journalists like him to have contacts within the team organization, including front office executives, coaches, and sometimes the players themselves. They may also have connections with agents and other figures around the league who are privy to negotiations and team strategies. These sources typically provide insights under the condition of anonymity, which allows journalists to report on sensitive information like trade discussions.

Sidery uses the word "Framework" in almost every tweet. I almost commented on his last tweet NOT having that word...it was almost shocking...like I had convinced myself it was his favorite word these days.

Maybe look for others that use that word.

[TeamTragic]

Per Gerald Bourguet via Bluesky

According to a source, the Suns are not interested in trading for Bogdan Bogdanovic. There was a report earlier today they might be interested in adding Bogey while unloading Jusuf Nurkic’s contract to Atlanta

Yup.
The Suns hit up Atlanta to sell them on Bradley Beal, not Nurkic.

That could work and help strengthen the Hawks playoff push.

[bwgood77]

I wonder who Sidery's source is because reporting that we're still sending trade packages, daily, suggests he has a source so close he's getting almost daily updates

I just asked ChatGPT

Spoiler:

Are the Phoenix Suns still trying to acquire Jimmy Butler before the trade deadline?

Yes, the Phoenix Suns are still actively trying to acquire Jimmy Butler before the NBA trade deadline. It's reported as a top priority for the Suns, and both parties seem to be open about their interest in making the deal happen before the deadline on February 6, 2025

Some reports mentioned that the Suns are pulling away from trying to acquire Jimmy Butler. But then Evan Sidery reported that is untrue. So it's hard to tell who is correct here.

It can definitely be confusing when reports conflict like that. Evan Sidery is known for his close tracking of the Phoenix Suns, so his updates might be more directly connected to the team's immediate situation. If he's contradicting other reports, it might be based on newer information or sources closer to the Suns' management. It might be a good idea to keep an eye on updates from both him and other reliable sports news sources as the trade deadline approaches to get the most accurate picture of what's happening.

Who do you think Evan Sidery's sources are?

While I can't say exactly who Evan Sidery's sources are, it's common for sports journalists like him to have contacts within the team organization, including front office executives, coaches, and sometimes the players themselves. They may also have connections with agents and other figures around the league who are privy to negotiations and team strategies. These sources typically provide insights under the condition of anonymity, which allows journalists to report on sensitive information like trade discussions.

Maybe one of us should become the new Flex and use ChatGPT as our source. That and other AI avenues. Might do better than many of the other "insiders".

[Slim Charless]

Per Gerald Bourguet via Bluesky

According to a source, the Suns are not interested in trading for Bogdan Bogdanovic. There was a report earlier today they might be interested in adding Bogey while unloading Jusuf Nurkic’s contract to Atlanta

Yup.
The Suns hit up Atlanta to sell them on Bradley Beal, not Nurkic.

Beal for Trae Young.