2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation Part III

[Qwigglez]

Maybe one of us should become the new Flex and use ChatGPT as our source. That and other AI avenues. Might do better than many of the other "insiders".

Boom asked some more stuff to ChatGPT.

Spoiler:

So give a % on what you think the likelihood of acquiring Jimmy Butler.

Given the mixed reports and the complexities of NBA trade negotiations, if the Phoenix Suns are actively pursuing Jimmy Butler and seem determined to strengthen their roster, a rough estimate would be around a 50-60% chance they'll successfully acquire him before the trade deadline. This estimate takes into account their strong interest but also acknowledges the unpredictable nature of trade discussions and the possibility of other teams making competitive offers.

What about a % on trading Jusus Nurkic. Who has been a crybaby and hasn't played a game for the Suns in some time now even though he is healthy enough to play.

If Jusuf Nurkić is causing issues within the team and has not been participating in games despite being healthy, the Suns might be more motivated to move him to ensure team harmony and make space for more cooperative players. These circumstances could increase the likelihood of a trade. Considering these factors, the probability of the Suns trading Nurkić could be higher, possibly around 70-80%, especially if they find a trade partner willing to take on his contract and if it aligns with their strategic goals, such as acquiring Jimmy Butler or another key player.

I then asked for some specific trades, and ChatGPT gave me some strange scenarios

To find a suitable trade partner for Jusuf Nurkić that benefits both the Phoenix Suns and the receiving team, we'd need to look for teams where there's a need for a center and a surplus of the type of player the Suns could use. Here are a few hypothetical scenarios:

To the Charlotte Hornets for Gordon Hayward:

Why for the Suns: Gordon Hayward could provide veteran leadership and scoring from the wing, which might help the Suns in playoff contention.
Why for the Hornets: If the Hornets are looking to rebuild or change their core, adding a veteran center like Nurkić could help mentor younger players and solidify their interior defense.
To the Indiana Pacers for T.J. Warren:

Why for the Suns: T.J. Warren, a former Sun, could provide scoring and has the versatility to play multiple forward positions.
Why for the Pacers: If the Pacers decide to shift their lineup and need a more traditional center to balance their young core, Nurkić could be a fit.
To the Cleveland Cavaliers for Cedi Osman:

Why for the Suns: Osman would add depth on the wing and bring 3-point shooting, which is valuable in the Suns' system.
Why for the Cavaliers: If Cleveland feels confident in their young centers, they might be willing to move Osman for a more experienced center to help in rotations.
To the Sacramento Kings for Marvin Bagley III:

Why for the Suns: Bagley offers youth and potential. A change of scenery could unlock his talents further, providing the Suns with a high-upside player.
Why for the Kings: With a crowded frontcourt, the Kings might look to swap for a veteran presence who can stabilize their defense.
These scenarios assume the contracts match or can be made to match through additional pieces, and that both teams see the trade as beneficial to their current strategies and goals.

[Qwigglez]

Watch on YouTube

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

I wonder who Sidery's source is because reporting that we're still sending trade packages, daily, suggests he has a source so close he's getting almost daily updates

If I had to put money on it, I'd bet it was Gambo or Windhorst (someone connected with them.

[TeamTragic]

Any updates from Gambo? I know that Sidery said that we have not pivoted from Butler.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Can Bogdan make a shot, is the question? He's in Huerter territory at this point. Small sample but he's also pushing 33 years old

Yeah, that's way too young for this team. We need older guys, and even better if they have max contracts.

How the Suns' front office gauges a player's age tenure in the league for possible consideration:

[bwgood77]

Maybe one of us should become the new Flex and use ChatGPT as our source. That and other AI avenues. Might do better than many of the other "insiders".

Boom asked some more stuff to ChatGPT.

Spoiler:

So give a % on what you think the likelihood of acquiring Jimmy Butler.

Given the mixed reports and the complexities of NBA trade negotiations, if the Phoenix Suns are actively pursuing Jimmy Butler and seem determined to strengthen their roster, a rough estimate would be around a 50-60% chance they'll successfully acquire him before the trade deadline. This estimate takes into account their strong interest but also acknowledges the unpredictable nature of trade discussions and the possibility of other teams making competitive offers.

What about a % on trading Jusus Nurkic. Who has been a crybaby and hasn't played a game for the Suns in some time now even though he is healthy enough to play.

If Jusuf Nurkić is causing issues within the team and has not been participating in games despite being healthy, the Suns might be more motivated to move him to ensure team harmony and make space for more cooperative players. These circumstances could increase the likelihood of a trade. Considering these factors, the probability of the Suns trading Nurkić could be higher, possibly around 70-80%, especially if they find a trade partner willing to take on his contract and if it aligns with their strategic goals, such as acquiring Jimmy Butler or another key player.

I then asked for some specific trades, and ChatGPT gave me some strange scenarios

To find a suitable trade partner for Jusuf Nurkić that benefits both the Phoenix Suns and the receiving team, we'd need to look for teams where there's a need for a center and a surplus of the type of player the Suns could use. Here are a few hypothetical scenarios:

To the Charlotte Hornets for Gordon Hayward:

Why for the Suns: Gordon Hayward could provide veteran leadership and scoring from the wing, which might help the Suns in playoff contention.
Why for the Hornets: If the Hornets are looking to rebuild or change their core, adding a veteran center like Nurkić could help mentor younger players and solidify their interior defense.
To the Indiana Pacers for T.J. Warren:

Why for the Suns: T.J. Warren, a former Sun, could provide scoring and has the versatility to play multiple forward positions.
Why for the Pacers: If the Pacers decide to shift their lineup and need a more traditional center to balance their young core, Nurkić could be a fit.
To the Cleveland Cavaliers for Cedi Osman:

Why for the Suns: Osman would add depth on the wing and bring 3-point shooting, which is valuable in the Suns' system.
Why for the Cavaliers: If Cleveland feels confident in their young centers, they might be willing to move Osman for a more experienced center to help in rotations.
To the Sacramento Kings for Marvin Bagley III:

Why for the Suns: Bagley offers youth and potential. A change of scenery could unlock his talents further, providing the Suns with a high-upside player.
Why for the Kings: With a crowded frontcourt, the Kings might look to swap for a veteran presence who can stabilize their defense.
These scenarios assume the contracts match or can be made to match through additional pieces, and that both teams see the trade as beneficial to their current strategies and goals.

Funny. You know what...I had just countered your offer on the trade...giving in although I think given the fact I'm unlikely to win it all now, it's probably not a good trade, but you will see my counter....

But having seen this, I typed a question to chatgpt, and it gave me pretty much exactly what my thoughts were....

Spoiler:

Should I trade Jakob Poeltl for Nikola Vucevic in my dynasty fantasy basketball league.
ChatGPT said:
ChatGPT
In a dynasty league, the value of players is often influenced by their age, long-term potential, and current performance. Let’s break it down:

Jakob Poeltl is a solid defensive presence and a great source of rebounds and blocks. He’s in his prime at 28 years old and provides consistent production in these areas. However, his offensive game is somewhat limited, so his upside isn’t as high as some other centers.

Nikola Vucevic, on the other hand, is a more established offensive weapon with a great ability to score, rebound, and pass for a center. He’s 33 years old, so his value in the long run isn’t as strong as Poeltl’s, especially when considering age and potential for decline.

If you're focused on long-term value in a dynasty league, Poeltl is probably the safer option. He’s younger and has more years left to contribute. Vucevic is still a solid contributor, but he’s on the back end of his career, and his value will likely start to decline soon.

If you're in a win-now situation and need more offensive production right away, then Vucevic might be the better choice. However, in a dynasty setting, I’d generally lean towards Poeltl for his age and defensive upside. Does your team need a strong offensive boost or are you looking more towards longevity?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

If giving up a freakin' 1st just to dump Nurkic, then this trade right here is the trade that the Suns NEED TO MAKE!!! nURKIC/ CLE 26 1st for Mitchell Robinson/ Tyler Kolek/ Pacom Dadiet!!

Let's finally quit all the stupidity and redundancy and make an actual movie that makes a ton of sense!!

Wouldn't help this year it seems with the injury but a good trade for Nurkic

Yeah! I figured It'd be similar to the premise of trading for Timelord, in that both would carry injury issues and not play too much, But could be a backup or even break glass option with the veiled value coming back as Kolek and Dadiet?

[bwgood77]

Miami trying to position themselves to go after Luka in 2026. We are trying to position ourselves to get Butler at 36 (well, he would be next season..turns 36 in Sept).

[TeamTragic]

Miami trying to position themselves to go after Luka in 2026. We are trying to position ourselves to get Butler at 36 (well, he would be next season..turns 36 in Dec).

I highly doubt we are not going to go after Luka in 2026.

[Sunsdeuce]

Miami trying to position themselves to go after Luka in 2026. We are trying to position ourselves to get Butler at 36 (well, he would be next season..turns 36 in Sept).

Pat Riley always plays chess slow and calculated. Ishbia is trying to play speed checkers.

[BobbieL]

Miami trying to position themselves to go after Luka in 2026. We are trying to position ourselves to get Butler at 36 (well, he would be next season..turns 36 in Dec).

Pat Riley always plays chess slow and calculated. Ishbia is trying to play speed checkers.

Exactly

Presti and Ainge were both trying for the 2031 pick

Riley is playing the long game and Ishbia will probably cave unless Beal saves himself. It was one thing to make the Durant trade but with the new CBA -- paying off the luxury tax is his money. But no draft picks, making trades harder, that is what he is not getting it seems

I so wish he would have the balls to blow it up

[TeamTragic]

Miami trying to position themselves to go after Luka in 2026. We are trying to position ourselves to get Butler at 36 (well, he would be next season..turns 36 in Dec).

Pat Riley always plays chess slow and calculated. Ishbia is trying to play speed checkers.

Well Butler took the Heat on his shoulders in recent memory.

Riley hasn't done **** since Wade/LeBron.

[Ghost of Kleine]

If this team needs a tough guy like Butler, we should trade for Isiah Stewart. He's a fraction of the cost and like 15 years younger

He's the new Draymond! Definitely the definition of FAFO! A little volatile and unhinged, but definitely would bring toughness and edginess to our team. I wouldn't mind him or Green himself, and maybe D Brooks to have a couple of tough tooth chipper personalities that could bring that don't even try it attitude! Heeck, even Randle for his physical bully ball style of play wouldn't be bad in thee right scenario?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Can we say it out loud. Bogdon to the Suns is redundant and mostly pointless. It’s just making a trade to make a trade.

Sometimes a change of scenery breeds more positive value than what the trade is on paper

[bwgood77]

Miami trying to position themselves to go after Luka in 2026. We are trying to position ourselves to get Butler at 36 (well, he would be next season..turns 36 in Dec).

I highly doubt we are not going to go after Luka in 2026.

I'm sure Ishbia will think it's possible, but even if we got rid of everyone but Book and KD, we wouldn't have enough cap space to sign him.

Miami can because all they have under contract for 26-27 are Bam and Herro. That's $68 million. We have 5 players, not counting KD, who we are likely going to extend to like $60 million a year or something.

[bwgood77]

Miami trying to position themselves to go after Luka in 2026. We are trying to position ourselves to get Butler at 36 (well, he would be next season..turns 36 in Sept).

Pat Riley always plays chess slow and calculated. Ishbia is trying to play speed checkers.

Chess is hard to play after an 8 ball.

[bwgood77]

Miami trying to position themselves to go after Luka in 2026. We are trying to position ourselves to get Butler at 36 (well, he would be next season..turns 36 in Dec).

Pat Riley always plays chess slow and calculated. Ishbia is trying to play speed checkers.

Well Butler took the Heat on his shoulders in recent memory.

Riley hasn't done **** since Wade/LeBron.

You always talk about other teams or players not doing **** as if the Suns or Ish or Booker or whoever has. Riley got to the finals twice in the last 5 years. If that isn't much, well the Suns have done less. You mention Beal being a loser but he went to the 2nd round 3 times prior to the Suns, and then even with a rebuilding team and an over the hill Westbrook, led them back to the playoffs after missing a lot of the prior season with injury, scoring over 31ppg, 2nd in the NBA. Book has made the 2nd round 3x as well but had Chris Paul each of those years, including KD with 1. Before Paul, we know how successful our team was. Beal never had sub 30 win seasons like we did those years except one year where he missedd 40 games, and it was shortened season and they won 25.

[TeamTragic]

Pat Riley always plays chess slow and calculated. Ishbia is trying to play speed checkers.

Well Butler took the Heat on his shoulders in recent memory.

Riley hasn't done **** since Wade/LeBron.

You always talk about other teams or players not doing **** as if the Suns or Ish or Booker or whoever has. Riley got to the finals twice in the last 5 years. If that isn't much, well the Suns have done less. You mention Beal being a loser but he went to the 2nd round 3 times prior to the Suns, and then even with a rebuilding team and an over the hill Westbrook, led them back to the playoffs after missing a lot of the prior season with injury, scoring over 31ppg, 2nd in the NBA. Book has made the 2nd round 3x as well but had Chris Paul each of those years, including KD with 1. Before Paul, we know how successful our team was. Beal never had sub 30 win seasons like we did those years except one year where he missedd 40 games, and it was shortened season and they won 25.

Just stating the facts but you can cherry pick. Rily could have extended Butler and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

However he decided to play hardball and now Ishbia wants Butler.

[BobbieL]

Well Butler took the Heat on his shoulders in recent memory.

Riley hasn't done **** since Wade/LeBron.

You always talk about other teams or players not doing **** as if the Suns or Ish or Booker or whoever has. Riley got to the finals twice in the last 5 years. If that isn't much, well the Suns have done less. You mention Beal being a loser but he went to the 2nd round 3 times prior to the Suns, and then even with a rebuilding team and an over the hill Westbrook, led them back to the playoffs after missing a lot of the prior season with injury, scoring over 31ppg, 2nd in the NBA. Book has made the 2nd round 3x as well but had Chris Paul each of those years, including KD with 1. Before Paul, we know how successful our team was. Beal never had sub 30 win seasons like we did those years except one year where he missedd 40 games, and it was shortened season and they won 25.

Just stating the facts but you can cherry pick. Rily could have extended Butler and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

However he decided to play hardball and now Ishbia wants Butler.

Ishbia wants the name
Just like he wanted Durant
Butler just wants an extension

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

I just recently was having such a discussion on this with someone on this board! And ironically regarding the same points being made here by others. If giving up one of our very last remaining assets, why do it for positional redundancy? Why not actually look to address positions of need over positions we already have very expensive depth at? These decisions are looking more and more asinine cumulatively as wee go forward!

And I said for Allen and a 1st, it wasn't worth it .

If you can get a deal done while dropping a negative asset in Nurk, that is very clearly a different deal from trading a positive asset in Allen.

But moving Nurkic at the expense of dumping one of our very few remaining firsts isn't even necessary! He'd have value as an expiring this summer! You're necessarily giving up assets to move a player you weren't even playing anyways, and for another overpaid player who's dramatically underperforming and is redundant at that position already! It's an egregious waste of our already very limited assets for a player that is not at all a need for us!

At least with my trade proposal, it's reducing further redundancy, reducing long-term term cost commitment, AND adding size, frontcourt floor spacing, and versatility that we currently do not have with any of Richards, Plumlee, or Ighodaro all not being able to space the floor, etc. And adding significant rebounding, defense, and transition scoring/playmaking potency too with Mogbo!
(As indicated by the links/tweets/ articles that I shared with you in our discussion. Easily a much better value cumulative return than dumping a 1st to swap a soon-to-be expiring for another shooting guard who's making big money, but also can't even shoot which his entire value is predicated upon!

You're dumping value just to add redundancy while not at all fixing or addressing our very obvious issues in the process. So regardless of your subjective assessment of value, this trade is significantly worse for a number of reasons that I mentioned above!

If surrendering a 1st, there are easily much better and more logical Nurkic trades than this that would at least address some critical needs which my proposal said from your individual value assessment still obviously does by comparison man.