Around the NBA (Part Two)

[winforlose]

When you call it the Memphis approach, are you talking about last year?

Yeah. The year is lost so you give as much time as possible to the young guys, even when some of the time more skilled players are available. The year they also go deeper into the rotation than most. But they have been injury plagued. This year I would almost liken Memphis to OKC and early GSW in that using 10-11 deep isn’t just about development, but also drives winning.

I don't think that's at all what happened last year. They only gave guys like GG Jackson minutes once the roster was completely decimated. It was basically JJJ and no one else. Even still, GG went from 27 and 29 minutes in consecutive games to 10 minutes the next. It's all a part of being a young player in this league.

There's also a major difference between starting to do this when you are above .500 versus when you are 15-26 at the midway point.

Let’s draw a quick line. This year some teams who have winning records play more than 8-9 guys in the rotation. Finch could do that, but doesn’t want to. Last year, Memphis had all kinds of issues with injuries. But, I still remember hearing that while guys might be healthy enough to play they were being cautious (another phrasing is deliberate tank,) and that freed up minutes for Scottie Pippen Jr, GG, and others.

In our current context Finch had a 8.5 man rotation. The injury to Dilly put Minott in the .5 role. Then DDV went down, and now we are somewhere between 7.5 and 8.5. Last night on Canis they pointed out that the starters played 173 minutes out of 240. Only 8 men saw minutes at all. That means that Dilly was the .5 and we ran 7.5 deep. Finch has decided that Minott is not good enough to be neutral in his minutes. That is the only excuse for not playing him. Finch also decided that Dilly was not good enough to be neutral last night, hence the short stint in the 2nd half. If this is Finch’s approach, it will get Mike hurt, probably Rudy to (he is playing on a bad ankle,) and who knows who else. We will be like the Knicks last year, and come playoff time we will be hobbled.

[Klomp]

Let’s draw a quick line. This year some teams who have winning records play more than 8-9 guys in the rotation. Finch could do that, but doesn’t want to. Last year, Memphis had all kinds of issues with injuries. But, I still remember hearing that while guys might be healthy enough to play they were being cautious (another phrasing is deliberate tank,) and that freed up minutes for Scottie Pippen Jr, GG, and others.

In our current context Finch had a 8.5 man rotation. The injury to Dilly put Minott in the .5 role. Then DDV went down, and now we are somewhere between 7.5 and 8.5. Last night on Canis they pointed out that the starters played 173 minutes out of 240. Only 8 men saw minutes at all. That means that Dilly was the .5 and we ran 7.5 deep. Finch has decided that Minott is not good enough to be neutral in his minutes. That is the only excuse for not playing him. Finch also decided that Dilly was not good enough to be neutral last night, hence the short stint in the 2nd half. If this is Finch’s approach, it will get Mike hurt, probably Rudy to (he is playing on a bad ankle,) and who knows who else. We will be like the Knicks last year, and come playoff time we will be hobbled.

Again, I don't think that happened for Memphis until way later in the season, once the Grizzlies had nothing to play for. It's like the Dallas Cowboys not starting Trey Lance until the last game of the season.

I get the desire to want to see the young guys. I am excited about them all, as well. But for playoff teams, I absolutely understand the hesitancy to trust them. It's like Finch said early in the season...early on, you probably get one good game out of every three games played. It's fine to work through the growing pains when you're a tanking organization, but that's not what Minnesota is. So it's either sit back and let the young guy give you repeated -10 shifts in those bad games or it's you make an adjustment.

Something else to look at: who benefits? In this situation, the biggest beneficiaries of reducing Minott's minutes have been Jaden McDaniels and Naz Reid. Both have increased their production as a result. So who would we rather tie our hopes and dreams for the season to: Naz Reid and Jaden McDaniels or Josh Minott? McDaniels in particular has seen his minutes jump up by 4.7 per game since Minott's have fallen, so it's a pretty easy direct line to make.

I'm not saying Minott is wholly to blame for any struggles or think that Finch believes he is wholly responsible. But it's a change that has been made and it has sparked individual growth in one of our core pieces.

[winforlose]

Let’s draw a quick line. This year some teams who have winning records play more than 8-9 guys in the rotation. Finch could do that, but doesn’t want to. Last year, Memphis had all kinds of issues with injuries. But, I still remember hearing that while guys might be healthy enough to play they were being cautious (another phrasing is deliberate tank,) and that freed up minutes for Scottie Pippen Jr, GG, and others.

In our current context Finch had a 8.5 man rotation. The injury to Dilly put Minott in the .5 role. Then DDV went down, and now we are somewhere between 7.5 and 8.5. Last night on Canis they pointed out that the starters played 173 minutes out of 240. Only 8 men saw minutes at all. That means that Dilly was the .5 and we ran 7.5 deep. Finch has decided that Minott is not good enough to be neutral in his minutes. That is the only excuse for not playing him. Finch also decided that Dilly was not good enough to be neutral last night, hence the short stint in the 2nd half. If this is Finch’s approach, it will get Mike hurt, probably Rudy to (he is playing on a bad ankle,) and who knows who else. We will be like the Knicks last year, and come playoff time we will be hobbled.

Again, I don't think that happened for Memphis until way later in the season, once the Grizzlies had nothing to play for. It's like the Dallas Cowboys not starting Trey Lance until the last game of the season.

I get the desire to want to see the young guys. I am excited about them all, as well. But for playoff teams, I absolutely understand the hesitancy to trust them. It's like Finch said early in the season...early on, you probably get one good game out of every three games played. It's fine to work through the growing pains when you're a tanking organization, but that's not what Minnesota is. So it's either sit back and let the young guy give you repeated -10 shifts in those bad games or it's you make an adjustment.

Something else to look at: who benefits? In this situation, the biggest beneficiaries of reducing Minott's minutes have been Jaden McDaniels and Naz Reid. Both have increased their production as a result. So who would we rather tie our hopes and dreams for the season to: Naz Reid and Jaden McDaniels or Josh Minott? McDaniels in particular has seen his minutes jump up by 4.7 per game since Minott's have fallen, so it's a pretty easy direct line to make.

I'm not saying Minott is wholly to blame for any struggles or think that Finch believes he is wholly responsible. But it's a change that has been made and it has sparked individual growth in one of our core pieces.

I agree it happened later, and I am saying it should not happen with us because we don’t own the pick and we are very much still in the playoff hunt. Telling Ant sorry we could make the playoffs but because we think we are an early out we are gonna tank for player development is culture killer.

Finch is bad at knowing when to be rigid with his rotation and when to be flexible. Dilly should have closed the Memphis game. We might have won, we might not. But losing Mike is less valuable than losing with Dilly.

Your argument about minutes is fair. So to is the fact that playing fewer minutes now keeps guys healthier for later. Naz should be eating some of Randle’s minutes and Minott should get some as well. Teams that play 10-11 deep do so understanding that they will not always have their best players in the game. But they trust the players and structures to carry them for those minutes and the extra rotation players feed of the experience to improve. It is a balancing act. Our problem is most games are on a knife’s edge even when we have big leads.

[winforlose]

OKC was home to Dallas tonight. Dallas on the back end of a back to back with the same players missing as last night managed to win 121-115 OKC. OKC was also on the back end of a back to back and missing Chet and IHart. Still a weird result.

[WolfAddict]

OKC was home to Dallas tonight. Dallas on the back end of a back to back with the same players missing as last night managed to win 121-115 OKC. OKC was also on the back end of a back to back and missing Chet and IHart. Still a weird result.

OKC just weren't there this game - Off night or fatigue - But you're right, not what I was expecting

[Klomp]

OKC was home to Dallas tonight. Dallas on the back end of a back to back with the same players missing as last night managed to win 121-115 OKC. OKC was also on the back end of a back to back and missing Chet and IHart. Still a weird result.

Almost like they are real NBA players with real pride, dignity and ability.

Seriously, the idea that "Team X is missing their best player, so they should lose every game by 40 or the other team just didn't try and needs to fire everyone" is one of the most annoying narratives I've seen in my nearly 20 years on RealGM. Not saying that you are saying this here, but I just get sick of it.

That's the biggest reason why I take each win or loss only for what it is on the surface level and that's about it.

[winforlose]

OKC was home to Dallas tonight. Dallas on the back end of a back to back with the same players missing as last night managed to win 121-115 OKC. OKC was also on the back end of a back to back and missing Chet and IHart. Still a weird result.

Almost like they are real NBA players with real pride, dignity and ability.

Seriously, the idea that "Team X is missing their best player, so they should lose every game by 40 or the other team just didn't try and needs to fire everyone" is one of the most annoying narratives I've seen in my nearly 20 years on RealGM. Not saying that you are saying this here, but I just get sick of it.

That's the biggest reason why I take each win or loss only for what it is on the surface level and that's about it.

A few years back we had what I called the COVID catastrophe and were missing most of the roster. Last year we played Denver without any of our bigs. These are the games that take scheduled loss and dial it to 11. Dallas was missing 7 rotation players, and their remaining guys played a lot of minutes the night before in a very close game. I am not saying they cannot win games under those conditions (obviously they did,) but to do so in OKC is highly unusual. I am sorry, I know you are right that things like this can happen, but the mathematical odds are… not high.

[winforlose]

Some of you might not know that Derrick Lively is hurt and out for months. Now Maxi Kleber who left the game tonight with Ankle Injury is out for months with what is actually a broken foot. Dwight Powell is also out with a hip injury and I don’t know his prognosis. This means that Dallas might need to be in the market for bigs.

[winforlose]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/278912/Dejounte-Murray-To-Undergo-X-Rays-For-Right-Hand-Injury

This may just be part of the tank, but it also probably removes DJM from trade discussions.

[frankenwolf]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/278935/Jimmy-Butler-Suspended-Indefinitely-By-Heat-After-Walking-Out-Of-Shootaround

Who would trade for this malcontent? He's wanting out and burying his chances. This man is an idiot.

[winforlose]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/278935/Jimmy-Butler-Suspended-Indefinitely-By-Heat-After-Walking-Out-Of-Shootaround

Who would trade for this malcontent? He's wanting out and burying his chances. This man is an idiot.

Let’s look at it from the other perspective. Let’s say Jimmy played tonight and rolled his ankle. Nothing serious, low grade sprain, play through it. Well any team who is trading for him now is trading for a bad ankle Jimmy. Let’s say the trade takes 4 more games to get finalized, now that bad ankle could get worse. The suspension guarantees he stays healthy, (at least within the basketball context.) It does make sense if the team acquiring him is okay with Jimmy a little out of shape from missing so many games.

Also, Jimmy is Jimmy and everyone knows it. It’s not like the first time in Minnesota where he was an unknown (only having played for the Bulls.) Anyone who acquires the General knows they are getting General Soreness, and they know why he is being such an a***ole.

[TimberKat]

Two things I don't understand around the NBA this year. 1. How the hack did Huston won another close again against a top team?
2. What is going on in the mind of Jimmy Butler?

[frankenwolf]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/278935/Jimmy-Butler-Suspended-Indefinitely-By-Heat-After-Walking-Out-Of-Shootaround

Who would trade for this malcontent? He's wanting out and burying his chances. This man is an idiot.

Let’s look at it from the other perspective. Let’s say Jimmy played tonight and rolled his ankle. Nothing serious, low grade sprain, play through it. Well any team who is trading for him now is trading for a bad ankle Jimmy. Let’s say the trade takes 4 more games to get finalized, now that bad ankle could get worse. The suspension guarantees he stays healthy, (at least within the basketball context.) It does make sense if the team acquiring him is okay with Jimmy a little out of shape from missing so many games.

Also, Jimmy is Jimmy and everyone knows it. It’s not like the first time in Minnesota where he was an unknown (only having played for the Bulls.) Anyone who acquires the General knows they are getting General Soreness, and they know why he is being such an a***ole.

I get all that, but do you think he could help any team win a championship this year? That would be the only reason I, as a GM, would trade for him. I don't see him helping anyone that much, but that is my opinion.

[Klomp]

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[winforlose]

AD left the Lakers/76ers game in the first with an Ab strain. It looks like the 76ers have their number and will bring us .5 games closer to 5th. If AD is out for a while, then we have an opportunity to catch up and take a top 6 seed into the deadline and maybe even the break.

[Klomp]

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[winforlose]

“Federal prosecutors investigating whether Terry Rozier manipulated performance as part of illegal sports betting scheme” copied from hoopshype

This apparently happened in 2023 with the Hornets.

[Klomp]

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[TimberKat]

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Did he just said "Physically I can, but I tank for the Pelicans"?

[shrink]

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