Political Roundtable Part XXXIII

[Doug_Blew]

There's a new video on cnn showing the collision. To me, it looks like the helicopter pilot intentionally collided into the side of the plane.

[Zonkerbl]

FAA rules won't let us take lithium batteries on a plane because once (ONCE!) a packet of lithium batteries in the cargo section short circuited and started smoking.

Yet we think it's totally fine to let suicidal pilots train near Reagan National???

[closg00]

There's a new video on cnn showing the collision. To me, it looks like the helicopter pilot intentionally collided into the side of the plane.

We don’t know if he was disoriented, or thought he was clear, or just plane phucked-up

[dobrojim]

I always thought it was strange that they told everyone to put their phones
in 'airplane' mode. But they didn't enforce it plus by saying you had to do this
implying it was a threat to safety, that a phone not in airplane mode was
a weaponized phone. If that were true, they should have taken everyone's
phone for the duration of the flight.

[Zonkerbl]

allegedly wireless signals interfere with airplane communications, if everyone has their phones on that would be enough interference to pose a real problem. It's not that you can blow up an airplane with one phone

[The Consiglieri]

Some twitter poster posted a vid from a week ago showing their take off with multiple blackhawks flying parallel to their airliner.

This reminds me of when NASA tried to sell us on a giant pile of insulation slamming into a space shuttle wouldn't be a big deal upon reentry. It just feels like common sense to not have choppers flying close to airliners landing and tanking off, period, and especially horizontally across their flight path.

Reminds me of the San Diego crashes in '78 and '86 where small Cessna type planes caused catastrophic crashes in Southern California. In one case, it was pilots losing site of the Cessna in front of them, and assuming a different plane was their cessna, when in fact theirs was directly in front of them and below, and just outside their sight line (the airliner hit the cessna, lost an engine, caught fire and crashed killing everyone including people on the ground), then eight years later, an ATC was distracted by a small cessna type again, who came in to illegal airspace, and was yelling at him to get out of the air space, when a confused pilot taking his family to big bear (the ski resort for SoCal's) crashed into an airliner, and again killed everybody.

Watching and seeing these recent crashes in South Korea, and now here, it feels like these things are the preventable sort just by using logic. Sometimes, ---- happens, and you're just screwed, like that JAL 747 that lost their stabilizer in the eighties and heroically kept the plane up for several minutes before finally crashing into a mountain (probably the most famous dudes beyond Sully, were the guys flying that 1989 DC10 into Sioux City and nearly landing it without hydraulics, or that Latin American pilot, who'd already landed a plane safely after getting shot in the eye by narcoterrorists, and then several years later, lost both engines, at cruising altitude and managed to feather the thing onto a patch of island grass near New Orleans, good lord!), but this kind of thing and the South Korean thing last month are serious WTF are you doing things like NASA and the Foam Strike.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I simply think logic would suggest you should not be flying Military Helicopters across runways being used to land airliners at night. Like, seriously? Shouldn't that be obvious? With South Korea JeuJeu Airlines, granted it was a crazy emergency, but if we can build sand based Trucker emergency break pull outs, to help them slow down on serious inclines (I don't know if you have that back East, but out in the West, we've got giant mountains, and habitually have Sand Trap emergency pull outs for truckers whose break fail, so they can roll to a stop in sand, rather than crash into cars or off the side of the mountain), so to have built a freaking like Concrete Barrier at the end of a runway so a plane blows to pieces and everyone dies (but two I guess) is just, well, clinically insane to me.

As for the Political side to it. I have Conservatives in my life that are like reverse versions of me (I haven't had a Republican I would have voted for for President probably since 15 years before I was born in Eisenhauer, and I'm fundamentally opposed to almost every talking point that's conservative, let alone Maga), and I totally understand and believe that in a sane world, we need conservatives and liberals and centrists working together because like chocolate and peanut butter, we avoid each inclinations excesses, and produce something much more enjoyable when our rough edges are sanded by one anothe metaphorically. However, when I look at this it reminds me so much of the insane, actively stupid, moronic, idiocy of the last 9 months of Trumps presidency when he was talking up bleach as a covid treatment, when he was actively trying to pretend if you wished the #'s down, they'd be down, people forget how clinically insane his talking points were in the spring of '20, and now five years later, he's literally saying DEI is why a helicopter crashed into an airliner, when they haven't even pulled out all the bodies out of the river. This is just so beyond insane. All I can think of with Maga people is: "You do get you ----ing elected Biff, from Back to the Future, President?!?!" You do get that right? You're basically voting for a much stupider, much less talented version of the villain from Disney movies, and after school specials from the seventies and eighties, you can literally watch anything your elementary school age children watch, look for the villain, lower the IQ a good 20 points, and that is basically the Trump template. Without fail, whatever the worst instincts are in any given situation, the most malignant perspectives and ideas, that's where he's gonna go, every single ----ing time.

And it leads me to thinking about just how much these voters hate liberals, how amoral some of them are when they don't hate liberals, they just want to vote for the opposite of whatever was in place 2021-2024 was, and how many of them are just flat out idiots? It reminds me of the story and quotes from Phillip II of Macedon, and how helpful he thought the Democratic Governments in Ancient Greece were, because it allowed him to solve geopolitical problems through corruption rather than war in most instances beyond Chaeronea. So many of the politicians of the age after the Peloponnesian War were corrupt and easily bribed, that he could save his soliders for what really mattered, and simply solve issues with some cash money here and there and everywhere. Just feels like that is where we are now, a huge swath of the public is so jaded and so over it that they don't care anymore about any principles, values, or anything else, and will openly support obvious, wanabe dictator morons, and their corrupt lackeys over people who I don't know, actually kind of have expertise and intelligence in their particular fields. It's almost like an F U vote to the basic principles and values that country aspired and generally failed to quite live up to over the decades, and centuries, but kept trying to live up to now. Now we're basically voting for class clown, because basically, "---- it, lets just enjoy rubber necking this car crash of our country." Feels very Bread and Circus stage. Mixing a billion metaphors and analogies, so sorry for that.

[Dark Faze]

There's a new video on cnn showing the collision. To me, it looks like the helicopter pilot intentionally collided into the side of the plane.

Perspective and how lights appear on camera are very different than how you would see them with your own two eyes. If both vehicles were as brightly obvious and visible as the footage represented then the airliner itself would have course corrected to avoid the collision.

[Zonkerbl]

My parents never voted for a main party candidate once in my life, they hated Republicans intensely and felt like Democrats were not much better. Ok, they were socialists, basically. And given how the Dems rolled over and allowed all this to happen I don't think they're wrong. The whole War on Drugs thing, that has been so devastating in allowing the creation of a police state, could not have happened without full Dem complicity. Shoot, Biden fricking AUTHORED one of the foundational legislative pillars of the war on drugs.

Racism is bad. But let me tell you this. There is a gap in home ownership between black people and white people that has not closed AT ALL since the mid 1970s. According to the Republicans there has been no racism in this country since Nixon. Wikipedia says the last officially documented lynching was in 1981 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_of_Michael_Donald).

Ok there's no more racism, but whatever it is that we *are* doing is keeping the home ownership gap from closing. Whatever we are doing is keeping the wounds of racism from healing. So the Republicans are wrong - fine, we know they're a bunch of mouth breathing evil racists, particularly based on the insane DEI garbage that came out of Trump's mouth yesterday. But the Republicans aren't the authors of the policies that have kept black people poor for the last forty years. That's on the Democrats. Whatever laws were passed in the past forty years was more or less with the Dems permission.

I don't know where I'm going with this. But I think the lack of enthusiasm for voting for Dems in 2024 is a result of black people voting in droves for Dems in self defense - and saving the Dems bacon - over and over again, for the last forty years - and getting absolutely NOTHING in return. The big payoff black people got from supporting Dems is a decades long War on Drugs, which for some reason we are only now starting to understand was basically a war on young black and latino men, who interestingly enough may have been the demographic that threw the election to the Republicans last November. That's the one demographic that moderate Dems just refuse to listen to, and now we're all paying the price for their stubbornness.

[The Consiglieri]

I’m starting to seriously think my wife and I should have gotten a passport.

To the PA lady in closgoo’s post, you probably are not rich enough
to get away with Nazi salutes.

Ken, please keep on being true to yourself.

I can get an Iranian passport but I'm pretty sure that would do more harm than good for the next 4 years.

I definitely need to look into my Canadian citizenship through my dad (Born and Raised in Vancouver, the grandparents outside Edmonton and Nova Scotia). I don't anticipate leaving, we have a nice mortgage and a nice house about a 45 minute drive from Lake Tahoe, and family ties to California. Honestly I think the beginnings of Secession are more likely than my family moving (and if it keeps going like this, California pumping a gazillion dollars of federal taxes into the system, then told to sit on their hands after multi-billion dollar environmental disasters, will likely leave), but I do want to be in position to bail out of this sinking ship if things don't change over the next decade.

It's one thing to fight for a country with a future, w/ideals, and principles, but when you feel the country is being swallowed whole by an epidemic of hateful stupidity and the worst possible decisions are being pursued with an unbelievable vigor, maybe it is time to consider leaving for a country that better reflects your ideals.

This entire situation is just an epic nightmare. I expect awful policies from Republicans, but this is so beyond the pale, and omg, Southern Evangelical's? Has there ever been a group of people who have more efficiently destroyed their reputations, and ideals as quickly as those monsters (82% of them anyway). It would be hilarious, if the outcomes sought weren't so apocalyptically evil.

[pancakes3]

2300 pages of hot political talk completed; more please.

also @AFM's been missing you.

Monte please, this thread is BURGEONING.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

There's a new video on cnn showing the collision. To me, it looks like the helicopter pilot intentionally collided into the side of the plane.

Exactly.

They haven't released the identities of the pilot and co-pilot.

They were at 400' instead of staying below 200'.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

There's a new video on cnn showing the collision. To me, it looks like the helicopter pilot intentionally collided into the side of the plane.

We don’t know if he was disoriented, or thought he was clear, or just plane phucked-up

For now, I'll go with phucked up.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Some twitter poster posted a vid from a week ago showing their take off with multiple blackhawks flying parallel to their airliner.

This reminds me of when NASA tried to sell us on a giant pile of insulation slamming into a space shuttle wouldn't be a big deal upon reentry. It just feels like common sense to not have choppers flying close to airliners landing and tanking off, period, and especially horizontally across their flight path.

Reminds me of the San Diego crashes in '78 and '86 where small Cessna type planes caused catastrophic crashes in Southern California. In one case, it was pilots losing site of the Cessna in front of them, and assuming a different plane was their cessna, when in fact theirs was directly in front of them and below, and just outside their sight line (the airliner hit the cessna, lost an engine, caught fire and crashed killing everyone including people on the ground), then eight years later, an ATC was distracted by a small cessna type again, who came in to illegal airspace, and was yelling at him to get out of the air space, when a confused pilot taking his family to big bear (the ski resort for SoCal's) crashed into an airliner, and again killed everybody.

Watching and seeing these recent crashes in South Korea, and now here, it feels like these things are the preventable sort just by using logic. Sometimes, ---- happens, and you're just screwed, like that JAL 747 that lost their stabilizer in the eighties and heroically kept the plane up for several minutes before finally crashing into a mountain (probably the most famous dudes beyond Sully, were the guys flying that 1989 DC10 into Sioux City and nearly landing it without hydraulics, or that Latin American pilot, who'd already landed a plane safely after getting shot in the eye by narcoterrorists, and then several years later, lost both engines, at cruising altitude and managed to feather the thing onto a patch of island grass near New Orleans, good lord!), but this kind of thing and the South Korean thing last month are serious WTF are you doing things like NASA and the Foam Strike.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I simply think logic would suggest you should not be flying Military Helicopters across runways being used to land airliners at night. Like, seriously? Shouldn't that be obvious? With South Korea JeuJeu Airlines, granted it was a crazy emergency, but if we can build sand based Trucker emergency break pull outs, to help them slow down on serious inclines (I don't know if you have that back East, but out in the West, we've got giant mountains, and habitually have Sand Trap emergency pull outs for truckers whose break fail, so they can roll to a stop in sand, rather than crash into cars or off the side of the mountain), so to have built a freaking like Concrete Barrier at the end of a runway so a plane blows to pieces and everyone dies (but two I guess) is just, well, clinically insane to me.

As for the Political side to it. I have Conservatives in my life that are like reverse versions of me (I haven't had a Republican I would have voted for for President probably since 15 years before I was born in Eisenhauer, and I'm fundamentally opposed to almost every talking point that's conservative, let alone Maga), and I totally understand and believe that in a sane world, we need conservatives and liberals and centrists working together because like chocolate and peanut butter, we avoid each inclinations excesses, and produce something much more enjoyable when our rough edges are sanded by one anothe metaphorically. However, when I look at this it reminds me so much of the insane, actively stupid, moronic, idiocy of the last 9 months of Trumps presidency when he was talking up bleach as a covid treatment, when he was actively trying to pretend if you wished the #'s down, they'd be down, people forget how clinically insane his talking points were in the spring of '20, and now five years later, he's literally saying DEI is why a helicopter crashed into an airliner, when they haven't even pulled out all the bodies out of the river. This is just so beyond insane. All I can think of with Maga people is: "You do get you ----ing elected Biff, from Back to the Future, President?!?!" You do get that right? You're basically voting for a much stupider, much less talented version of the villain from Disney movies, and after school specials from the seventies and eighties, you can literally watch anything your elementary school age children watch, look for the villain, lower the IQ a good 20 points, and that is basically the Trump template. Without fail, whatever the worst instincts are in any given situation, the most malignant perspectives and ideas, that's where he's gonna go, every single ----ing time.

And it leads me to thinking about just how much these voters hate liberals, how amoral some of them are when they don't hate liberals, they just want to vote for the opposite of whatever was in place 2021-2024 was, and how many of them are just flat out idiots? It reminds me of the story and quotes from Phillip II of Macedon, and how helpful he thought the Democratic Governments in Ancient Greece were, because it allowed him to solve geopolitical problems through corruption rather than war in most instances beyond Chaeronea. So many of the politicians of the age after the Peloponnesian War were corrupt and easily bribed, that he could save his soliders for what really mattered, and simply solve issues with some cash money here and there and everywhere. Just feels like that is where we are now, a huge swath of the public is so jaded and so over it that they don't care anymore about any principles, values, or anything else, and will openly support obvious, wanabe dictator morons, and their corrupt lackeys over people who I don't know, actually kind of have expertise and intelligence in their particular fields. It's almost like an F U vote to the basic principles and values that country aspired and generally failed to quite live up to over the decades, and centuries, but kept trying to live up to now. Now we're basically voting for class clown, because basically, "---- it, lets just enjoy rubber necking this car crash of our country." Feels very Bread and Circus stage. Mixing a billion metaphors and analogies, so sorry for that.

I just got a World History lesson!

(I also want a Reese's Cup for some reason).

Don the Con of MAGA Macedon.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

There's a new video on cnn showing the collision. To me, it looks like the helicopter pilot intentionally collided into the side of the plane.

Perspective and how lights appear on camera are very different than how you would see them with your own two eyes. If both vehicles were as brightly obvious and visible as the footage represented then the airliner itself would have course corrected to avoid the collision.

I think the airplane pilot didn't see the helicopter coming.

[payitforward]

Some twitter poster posted a vid from a week ago showing their take off with multiple blackhawks flying parallel to their airliner.

This reminds me of when NASA tried to sell us on a giant pile of insulation slamming into a space shuttle wouldn't be a big deal upon reentry. It just feels like common sense to not have choppers flying close to airliners landing and tanking off, period, and especially horizontally across their flight path.

Reminds me of the San Diego crashes in '78 and '86 where small Cessna type planes caused catastrophic crashes in Southern California. In one case, it was pilots losing site of the Cessna in front of them, and assuming a different plane was their cessna, when in fact theirs was directly in front of them and below, and just outside their sight line (the airliner hit the cessna, lost an engine, caught fire and crashed killing everyone including people on the ground), then eight years later, an ATC was distracted by a small cessna type again, who came in to illegal airspace, and was yelling at him to get out of the air space, when a confused pilot taking his family to big bear (the ski resort for SoCal's) crashed into an airliner, and again killed everybody.

Watching and seeing these recent crashes in South Korea, and now here, it feels like these things are the preventable sort just by using logic. Sometimes, ---- happens, and you're just screwed, like that JAL 747 that lost their stabilizer in the eighties and heroically kept the plane up for several minutes before finally crashing into a mountain (probably the most famous dudes beyond Sully, were the guys flying that 1989 DC10 into Sioux City and nearly landing it without hydraulics, or that Latin American pilot, who'd already landed a plane safely after getting shot in the eye by narcoterrorists, and then several years later, lost both engines, at cruising altitude and managed to feather the thing onto a patch of island grass near New Orleans, good lord!), but this kind of thing and the South Korean thing last month are serious WTF are you doing things like NASA and the Foam Strike.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I simply think logic would suggest you should not be flying Military Helicopters across runways being used to land airliners at night. Like, seriously? Shouldn't that be obvious? With South Korea JeuJeu Airlines, granted it was a crazy emergency, but if we can build sand based Trucker emergency break pull outs, to help them slow down on serious inclines (I don't know if you have that back East, but out in the West, we've got giant mountains, and habitually have Sand Trap emergency pull outs for truckers whose break fail, so they can roll to a stop in sand, rather than crash into cars or off the side of the mountain), so to have built a freaking like Concrete Barrier at the end of a runway so a plane blows to pieces and everyone dies (but two I guess) is just, well, clinically insane to me.

As for the Political side to it. I have Conservatives in my life that are like reverse versions of me (I haven't had a Republican I would have voted for for President probably since 15 years before I was born in Eisenhauer, and I'm fundamentally opposed to almost every talking point that's conservative, let alone Maga), and I totally understand and believe that in a sane world, we need conservatives and liberals and centrists working together because like chocolate and peanut butter, we avoid each inclinations excesses, and produce something much more enjoyable when our rough edges are sanded by one anothe metaphorically. However, when I look at this it reminds me so much of the insane, actively stupid, moronic, idiocy of the last 9 months of Trumps presidency when he was talking up bleach as a covid treatment, when he was actively trying to pretend if you wished the #'s down, they'd be down, people forget how clinically insane his talking points were in the spring of '20, and now five years later, he's literally saying DEI is why a helicopter crashed into an airliner, when they haven't even pulled out all the bodies out of the river. This is just so beyond insane. All I can think of with Maga people is: "You do get you ----ing elected Biff, from Back to the Future, President?!?!" You do get that right? You're basically voting for a much stupider, much less talented version of the villain from Disney movies, and after school specials from the seventies and eighties, you can literally watch anything your elementary school age children watch, look for the villain, lower the IQ a good 20 points, and that is basically the Trump template. Without fail, whatever the worst instincts are in any given situation, the most malignant perspectives and ideas, that's where he's gonna go, every single ----ing time.

And it leads me to thinking about just how much these voters hate liberals, how amoral some of them are when they don't hate liberals, they just want to vote for the opposite of whatever was in place 2021-2024 was, and how many of them are just flat out idiots? It reminds me of the story and quotes from Phillip II of Macedon, and how helpful he thought the Democratic Governments in Ancient Greece were, because it allowed him to solve geopolitical problems through corruption rather than war in most instances beyond Chaeronea. So many of the politicians of the age after the Peloponnesian War were corrupt and easily bribed, that he could save his soliders for what really mattered, and simply solve issues with some cash money here and there and everywhere. Just feels like that is where we are now, a huge swath of the public is so jaded and so over it that they don't care anymore about any principles, values, or anything else, and will openly support obvious, wanabe dictator morons, and their corrupt lackeys over people who I don't know, actually kind of have expertise and intelligence in their particular fields. It's almost like an F U vote to the basic principles and values that country aspired and generally failed to quite live up to over the decades, and centuries, but kept trying to live up to now. Now we're basically voting for class clown, because basically, "---- it, lets just enjoy rubber necking this car crash of our country." Feels very Bread and Circus stage. Mixing a billion metaphors and analogies, so sorry for that.

Preach, brother!

[AFM]

HOF post?

[The Consiglieri]

Interesting story just hit, outlining how pilots have been upset about how Reagan international is run for decades, and the biggest complaint was the lack of access to helicopter radios for communication. One pilot apparently mentioned 7 near misses he's had at the airport in just 4.5 years. Also didn't realize that TCAS doesn't work at the altitude they were at when the crash took place (TCAS views 300ish feet as too low to be able to safely change directions for an airliner).

Interesting article. Definitely feels like my foam strike NASA analogy was on point. This sounds like it's been an accident waiting to happen for decades, was ignored, and it finally did.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pilots-recall-problems-washington-airport-185706859.html

[pancakes3]

I totally understand and believe that in a sane world, we need conservatives and liberals and centrists working together because like chocolate and peanut butter, we avoid each inclinations excesses, and produce something much more enjoyable when our rough edges are sanded by one anothe metaphorically. However, when I look at this it reminds me so much of the insane, actively stupid, moronic, idiocy of the last 9 months of Trumps presidency when he was talking up bleach as a covid treatment, when he was actively trying to pretend if you wished the #'s down, they'd be down, people forget how clinically insane his talking points were in the spring of '20, and now five years later, he's literally saying DEI is why a helicopter crashed into an airliner, when they haven't even pulled out all the bodies out of the river. This is just so beyond insane. All I can think of with Maga people is: "You do get you ----ing elected Biff, from Back to the Future, President?!?!" You do get that right? You're basically voting for a much stupider, much less talented version of the villain from Disney movies, and after school specials from the seventies and eighties, you can literally watch anything your elementary school age children watch, look for the villain, lower the IQ a good 20 points, and that is basically the Trump template. Without fail, whatever the worst instincts are in any given situation, the most malignant perspectives and ideas, that's where he's gonna go, every single ----ing time.

We've been slowly boiled alive over the past 50 years re: conservatism.

Conservatism used to mean that progress happens conservatively. We are deliberate and sure in our footing before taking on radical changes to the status quo, so that citizens and businesses can adapt accordingly, and if we are going down a wrong path, the fallout is not as catastrophic. And also, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Progressive politics meant we are constantly searching for better methods of governing, adapting to the times, and addressing problems with innovative and new solutions.

The push and pull that you're describing where we are chocolate and peanut butter is the compromise between the two positions. in an IDEAL world, both parties acknowledge something like climate change, and come up with a budget-friendly, but still forward moving solution. We don't dive headfirst, changing over our energy production overnight, but we promote and incentivize green solutions by using some mutually agreed upon mix of tax breaks, grants, regulations, etc. - the levers of power that the government has at its disposal.

"Conservatives" have decided that this does not tickle the amygdala enough, and that it is easier to win by appealing to fear, because conservatives are intrinsically predisposed to being cautious. They have abandoned the classical conservative position, and instead adopted a position of going backwards. It fits a narrative better. They no longer want to move forward, they want to move backwards. We look to the Founders' for guidance on how to regulate the internet, assault weapons, and contraceptives. We want to make America great again, like it was in the '50s. We should get rid of civil rights progress for women, minorities, and non-cis people. Giving an inch, or even acknowledging that progressives have a point is already losing the battle.

Centrists are now labelled incrementalists, because the real term, conservative, is already taken. The only reason incrementalists and progressives are united (Bernie & Hilary) is because this third faction of actively regressive politicians poses an existential threat. So yeah, the tent's too big, and the only message that appeals to everyone under the tent is "Orange Man Bad"

And nobody is talking about it. Even people who do speak up, do not say these quiet parts out loud. And when they try, it's CRT and becomes a third rail for both sides. I don't recall a single time that Kamala or Biden took a second to address CRT in their campaigns. Just vague handwaving about how diversity is good for this country, and the other side is racist.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

?t=uFcgdcf8V2LxirF3gzId6g&s=19

[dobrojim]

There's a new video on cnn showing the collision. To me, it looks like the helicopter pilot intentionally collided into the side of the plane.

Exactly.

They haven't released the identities of the pilot and co-pilot.

They were at 400' instead of staying below 200'.

I don't know if all the requirements have been met. Maddow made a biggish deal about
Hegseth violating the protocol on announcing almost anything about the death of active
service people before certain niceties are certifiably done.

But they definitely shouldn't have been at the height they were at. They paid with their lives.
And the lives of many others. Obviously incredibly tragic.