The 2024-25 Rookies

[payitforward]

That's a fair enough observation, but if what a player does has no impact on numbers it has no impact on wins. Period. Thus, if "his bball IQ, physical toughness, and outstanding D are... helping the Spurs win games" then that effect has to register somewhere in team numbers.

I.e. the numbers don't have to be *his* numbers -- but the numbers have to be there one way or another related to his presence on the court. Thus, for example, you would expect him to have positive on/off numbers -- which maybe he has!

I like Castle, as I've written many times. I wouldn't have picked him over Sarr, but I wouldn't have been distraught if that was what we'd done.

[AFM]

I wanted to say something similar PIF but just figured I was missing some context. I think playing for the Spurs definitely helps his case. He’s in the limelight w Wemby.
Put him on the Wizards and I doubt he’s turning any heads.

[tontoz]

Castles BPM of -5 is one of the worst in the league, only fractionally better than Bub and Kyshawn.

[Kanyewest]

That's a fair enough observation, but if what a player does has no impact on numbers it has no impact on wins. Period. Thus, if "his bball IQ, physical toughness, and outstanding D are... helping the Spurs win games" then that effect has to register somewhere in team numbers.

I.e. the numbers don't have to be *his* numbers -- but the numbers have to be there one way or another related to his presence on the court. Thus, for example, you would expect him to have positive on/off numbers -- which maybe he has!

I like Castle, as I've written many times. I wouldn't have picked him over Sarr, but I wouldn't have been distraught if that was what we'd done.

Devil's advocate only would be is that the Spurs do have more wins than last season. Through 44 games they have 20 wins, being that they only had 22 wins in all of last season.

Then again, there are other factors that come into play like them acquiring Chris Paul, Harrison Barnes and Wemby's improvement. More likely, Castle is getting more highly valued/overrated is because there aren't many people watching the Wizards whereas more people are watching the Spurs because of Wemby (and there also appears to be some confirmation bias among people who would have Castle rated highly prior to the draft that want him to win rookie of the year like Bill Simmons and Kirk Goldsburry).

[closg00]

Ware getting his props finally.

Read on Twitter

[dckingsfan]

I found the Jared McCain Memorial Tier hilarious...

**On G League assignment

Jared McCain Memorial Tier One
*Jared McCain

Impact Rotation Player
Stephon Castle
Jaylen Wells
Zach Edey
Kel’el Ware
Ajay Mitchell*

Positive Play By Rookie Standards
Zaccharie Risacher
Alex Sarr
Matas Buzelis
Tristan Da Silva
Yves Missi
Ron Holland II
Kyle Filipowski
Jonathan Mogbo
Carlton Carrington
Donovan Clingan
Dalton Knecht
Isaiah Collier

Flashes/Inconsistent Play
Ryan Dunn
Ja’Kobe Walter
Kyshawn George
Justin Edwards
Oso Ighodaro
Keaton Wallace
KJ Simpson
Jamal Shead
Tidjane Salaun
Cody Williams

https://www.sportscasting.com/news/nba-rookie-ladder-vol-5-stephon-castle-grabs-top-spot-san-antonio-spurs/

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Based on their play so far, I'd say the only guys with any kind of a supportable claim on RoY are Edey, Clingan, Ajay Mitchell, Jamison Battle & Jaylon Tyson.

Mitchell, Battle & Tyson haven't played enough minutes. They shouldn't be taken seriously as candidates.

Edey has been better than Clingan so far, & he's played 25% more minutes as well.

TBH, I just don't see how to give it to anyone else -- not at this point anyway.

[gambitx777]

Based on their play so far, I'd say the only guys with any kind of a supportable claim on RoY are Edey, Clingan, Ajay Mitchell, Jamison Battle & Jaylon Tyson.

Mitchell, Battle & Tyson haven't played enough minutes. They shouldn't be taken seriously as candidates.

Edey has been better than Clingan so far, & he's played 25% more minutes as well.

TBH, I just don't see how to give it to anyone else -- not at this point anyway.

If George had played like this all season he's be in the running.

Bub has work to do but he's been good!

Sarrs missed too many games and he's been inconsistent.

Id give it to Eddy.




Sent from my SM-S926U1 using RealGM mobile app

[bsilver]

Castle will be ROY. He’s the heavy Las Vegas favorite.
Especially with Wendy out, he’ll have big role.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Based on their play so far, I'd say the only guys with any kind of a supportable claim on RoY are Edey, Clingan, Ajay Mitchell, Jamison Battle & Jaylon Tyson.

Mitchell, Battle & Tyson haven't played enough minutes. They shouldn't be taken seriously as candidates.

Edey has been better than Clingan so far, & he's played 25% more minutes as well.

TBH, I just don't see how to give it to anyone else -- not at this point anyway.

I hope Edey gets it, just because so many people said he wouldn't be able to play in the league.

[dckingsfan]

Yeah, still not impressed with any of the rookies from this year's crop being more than a 5th or 6th option on a good team.

1. Stephon Castle, San Antonio Spurs

Season stats: 12.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.4 apg
Last Ladder: No. 1
Draft pick: No. 4

Castle’s numbers have dropped lately, but his outlook remains strong. In an interview with Andscape.com at the end of All-Star Weekend, the Spurs newcomer spoke of his NBA journey so far: “If you would’ve told me a year ago I’d be in this position, I probably wouldn’t believe you. But I feel I just became accustomed to all the work I put in and my faith in God. And I thank God for all these opportunities.”

2. Jaylen Wells, Memphis Grizzlies

Season stats: 11.4 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 1.6 apg
Last Ladder: No. 3
Draft pick: No. 39

Since the last Ladder, Wells has posted 15 ppg and 3.8 rpg, shooting 54.2% overall and 44.8% from the arc. He has been in steady pursuit of Castle or anyone else (besides him) who has held the top rung this season. Said coach Taylor Jenkins about his consistency at both ends and rookie-wall avoidance: “His discipline is the thing that has really stood out the most. He is having successful moments and growth moments, as well. When he makes a mistake, he really corrects it pretty quickly.”

3. Zach Edey, Memphis Grizzlies

Season stats: 9.1 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 1.2 bpg
Last Ladder: No. 2
Draft pick: No. 9

The Grizzlies love Edey’s defensive presence and willingness to try to erase teammates’ mistakes. Then there’s the way he has their back, evident again in the kerfuffle against Cleveland. “He went after my player,” Edey said.

4. Kel’el Ware, Miami Heat

Season stats: 8.6 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 1 bpg
Last Ladder: No. 5
Draft pick: No. 15

His counting stats have moved him up the rungs (9.6 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 1.2 bpg since the last Ladder). But a nice breakdown of Ware’s 15 starts revealed some defensive flaws, including this: Miami’s defensive rating (117.9) when Ware is on the floor without Bam Adebayo would rank 27th of 30. Better news: When both are out there, it’s 106.1, which would rank second.

5. Yves Missi, New Orleans Pelicans

Season stats: 8.5 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 1.5 bpg
Last Ladder: No. 4
Draft pick: No. 21

Skip the rookies, Missi ranks fourth in offensive rebounding per 36 minutes among all 193 players who have logged 1,000+ minutes. He’s at 4.7 rpg, trailing only Walker Kessler (5.5), Clint Capela (5.3) and Jalen Duren (5).

The Next 5:
6. Zaccharie Risacher, Atlanta Hawks
Season stats: 11.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.3 apg
Last Ladder: No. 6
Draft pick: No. 1

Resigned to getting rookie treatment from refs, the lanky wing has been practicing his drives through contact vs. padded blocking guards. “I don’t expect any calls,” he said.

7. Isaiah Collier, Utah Jazz

Season stats: 7 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 6.0 apg
Last Ladder: No. 9
Draft pick: No. 29

There’s excitement in Salt Lake City over the rookies lately, between Kyle Filipowski and Collier. The burly guard is a top candidate for Rookie of the Month out West at 11.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 9.3 apg and 30.8 mpg in February.

8. Bub Carrington, Washington Wizards

Season stats: 9.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 3.9 apg
Last Ladder: No. 7
Draft pick: No. 14

Delivered a clunker vs. the Nets after a seven-game stretch of 14.4 ppg, 4.6 rpg and 5.1 apg. “One of the things he does really well is help us get organized,” coach Brian Keefe says. “Now he is making great reads.”

9. Alex Sarr, Washington Wizards

Season stats: 11.7 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 1.6 bpg
Last Ladder: No. 8
Draft pick: No. 2

He scored 22 vs. Bucks on Friday, but he’s back to managing an ankle injury. He’s played just twice since Jan. 27.

10. Donovan Clingan, Portland Trail Blazers

Season stats: 5.7 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 1.6 bpg
Last Ladder: Not ranked
Draft pick: No. 7

Consistency is the next step. He averaged 19 ppg, 13.5 rpg in 2 games heading into break, 7.0 and 8.0 in 3 since.

https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-february-26-2025-edition

[closg00]

Does anyone think that Zaccharie Risacher is a legit #1 prospect from watching him this year?

[DCZards]

Stephon Castle is a flat out basketball player. Makes winning plays on both ends of the court.

[J-Ves]

Castle is good. San Antonio boomed us again

[closg00]

Stephon will be ROY, he is so poised for a rookie.

Watch on YouTube

[payitforward]

I'm sure I'll get criticized for this, but... Stephon Castle has NOT been good his rookie year. Period.

He turns the ball over a lot, & he's a below average rebounder. Not a good combination.
Plus, he's scoring at a TS% of 50.8% -- that's not good; it's bad.

His assist numbers are good, but they don't go far to overcome the turnovers, bad shooting, & deficient board work.

Castle's been about as bad as Rissacher, but by no means as bad as Alex Sarr, who has been absolutely horrible.

Edey has been the best rookie -- by a lot, the only competitor at all being Clingan.

[DCZards]

I'm sure I'll get criticized for this, but... Stephon Castle has NOT been good his rookie year. Period.

He turns the ball over a lot, & he's a below average rebounder. Not a good combination.
Plus, he's scoring at a TS% of 50.8% -- that's not good; it's bad.

His assist numbers are good, but they don't go far to overcome the turnovers, bad shooting, & deficient board work.

Castle's been about as bad as Rissacher, but by no means as bad as Alex Sarr, who has been absolutely horrible.

Edey has been the best rookie -- by a lot, the only competitor at all being Clingan.

[DCZards]

I'm sure I'll get criticized for this, but... Stephon Castle has NOT been good his rookie year. Period.

He turns the ball over a lot, & he's a below average rebounder. Not a good combination.
Plus, he's scoring at a TS% of 50.8% -- that's not good; it's bad.

His assist numbers are good, but they don't go far to overcome the turnovers, bad shooting, & deficient board work.

Castle's been about as bad as Rissacher, but by no means as bad as Alex Sarr, who has been absolutely horrible.

Edey has been the best rookie -- by a lot, the only competitor at all being Clingan.

No criticism from me PIF. I do have one question though—how many Spurs games have you seen this season?

[closg00]

I'm sure I'll get criticized for this, but... Stephon Castle has NOT been good his rookie year. Period.

He turns the ball over a lot, & he's a below average rebounder. Not a good combination.
Plus, he's scoring at a TS% of 50.8% -- that's not good; it's bad.

His assist numbers are good, but they don't go far to overcome the turnovers, bad shooting, & deficient board work.

Castle's been about as bad as Rissacher, but by no means as bad as Alex Sarr, who has been absolutely horrible.

Edey has been the best rookie -- by a lot, the only competitor at all being Clingan.

No problemo, Edey is also in the mix in 3rd place currently.

[payitforward]

...one question though—how many Spurs games have you seen this season?

That's a fair question, Zards -- & I haven't been able to watch any.

My wife & I moved back from Lewes DE (where we'd been 20 years) to Silver Spring in December. We went from a sizable house to a comfortable but waaay smaller condo in the National Park Seminary (amazing place!).

In truth it was an exhausting experience. We're both writers & despite mighty efforts to cull we brought thousands & thousands of books. Most of our life together has been spent in the arts community, & we have by now hung more than 100 works (some of them quite large) around the joint.

The result is that I've had much less time than usual to watch NBA games -- & of course have devoted almost all of that time to watching our kids.

I'm a *fan* of Stephon Castle, Zards. I wouldn't have been upset if we'd picked him instead of Sarr. & he's certainly been better than Alex!

But, you can't call a guy "good" if he puts up numbers of the kind Castle has recorded. That doesn't mean he won't turn out to be a terrific player. Jeremy Sochan was absolutely awful as a rookie. This year, his 3d, he is terrific. For that matter, Deni is obviously terrific -- but he wasn't good his rookie year!

Then there's the obvious fact that absolutely anybody in the NBA is a tremendous basketball player! It's only in that context that I would say Castle hasn't been "good."

In the end, if a guy turns the ball over more than average, that's bad not good. If he shoots a lower % than average, that's bad not good. Etc. & if these things aren't true, then you turn a competitive sport into a kind of artsy entertainment. You wind up talking about basketball players as if they were ballet dancers.

You don't have to look at numbers to tell who's a better dancer, but you do have to look at numbers to say who's playing better or worse basketball. Period.

Why? Because "better" means "contributing more to wins" & wins are determined by numbers & nothing else.