KCP now 2nd worst FA signing to Biyombo???

[VFX]

LOL

Its not about those players, its about our playmakers.
KCP didnt forgot how to play at 31 years of age.
Its about Banchero, its some about Wagner and mostly about lack of point guard.

thats what i am saying though. It isnt just about KCP's play, its about the front office bringing in KCP when we had a similar player already in Suggs, and moving Suggs to PG which has affected him and still forcing Franz and Paolo to be the primary playmakers, when at least Paolo has asked for help

Well ok, on some level i agree. Still KCP is not on awful deal and he is not a bad player.

The question is not about whether KCP is a bad player.

The question is about whether it was a horrible signing.

Displacing Suggs, tripling down on no established point guard, keeping the ball in the hands of 2 total guys, and failing to maximize the strengths of the rest of the roster all culminate it in being an atrocious signing.

They spent the money and it solved 0 weaknesses with the starting lineup. If anything, it exacerbated all of the problems from last season combined with the re-signing of players that lost value, while again solving nothing.

KCP is a luxury 3&D system player that serves as a 4th option on offense. The Orlando Magic don’t even have a system on offense. It’s currently a pickup game at the Y.

That’s like detailing a car with no engine. Makes no sense.

[Bergmaniac]

At some point KCP’s shot is going to fall. Too much emphasis on people thinking his performance is due to not having Jokic anymore. The guy is a CAREER 41% shooter from corner 3 and is currently hitting them at 27%. Worst and longest shooting slump of his career - just a matter of time and things wont look so bad.

Yeah, it's obviously easier to shoot well when you play with Jokic or LeBron, but he also shot 39% from 3 when he was with the Wizards in 2021/22, a team which won 35 games and had its stars both miss most of the season. Also, last year he shot 2.2 wide open 3s per game, this year he is shooting 2.1 wide open 3s per game, so it's not like he was getting way more open looks with Jokic, he is just not making them, especially from the corners. There is no PG that would help him shoot better on wide open corner 3s, that's on him.

[Skybox]

...on the brighter side, I think a contending veteran team might just still value him. If I was LAL or LAC or MIL or even PHI or MIA, I'd consider giving away a younger prospect for a proven, battle-tested KCP. I also can't believe that his decade-long shooting was a fluke. If he went to a contender with his new, fat contract...he'd say thanks and best wishes. I think if there was an opportunity to include him (and his guaranteed money), I'd give it a long look. Shoot, the way POR & DET have been playing, they could switch into buyers overnight. I would think any playoff team in either conference might consider it...but they'd also be less likely to send us something equally win-now unless they are presently as unbalanced as us (but in a different way).

He's a very good player and has defended very well. Obviously, his shooting is a much more painful topic. I guess Weltman had a vision of two fierce defenders just raining down open 3's at a 40% clip...but not only has the shooting not been there, the whole system seems like it's clearly a limited program that needs to be amended. Even if they were the #1 defense in the league, the lack of playmaking up and down the lineup (after P&F) has become the glaring problem...

So, KCP (and the two SG plan) have been letdowns, hand in hand, and probably both need to go. I'm ok with keeping KCP and utilizing him differently, likely off the bench at 2 AND 3...but, that wasn't what he was brought in for and he hasn't delivered on his expected floor-spreading. If KCP bristles at the idea, maybe he's also not the "Champion" role model, winner that was the third prong of what he was overapid and brought in to be.

[rcklsscognition]

If you go back and watch the first quarter from the Blazers game when we ran the ball through KCP good looks and things happened. We got away from it not long into the first and things fell apart.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

I wasn’t familiar with KCP’s game but I am surprised how timid he is. He reminds me of Gary Harris. They are good shooters who refuse to shoot.

[Kent]

In a vacuum, his signing hasn't lived up to expectations.

Even at our current record, he still holds value in the locker room and as a trade chip, as other teams would look past his troubling stats.

If you look at his game log from the past few seasons, it's not crazy different from what he's putting up this season. But I think I speak for everyone when I say we expected him to push us to more wins. Still, I could argue he has helped us win games we otherwise wouldn't have, even if you wanted more.

My verdict: not the worst/second worst.

Also...

If WePark have the stones to make a trade before the deadline, they could maximize the type of player everyone expected when we signed KCP.

Because let's face it, as constructed, this team won't go as far as we want.

his season averages over the past few seasons are drastically different.

What's your definition of "drastic"?

I acknowledge his numbers are down, but not by much.

Especially over the past few seasons.

I'm not happy with the production either. But let's not pretend he's been playing with the team's best players during this time.

And let's put this in perspective: he wasn't going to be a savior. If anyone thought his signing was even close to the kind of upgrade Rashard or Horace brought, he was never meant to be that kind of signing.

Again, I'm not so much as defending him as much as I'm saying he's pretty much in line with what we should've expected.

[tiderulz]

In a vacuum, his signing hasn't lived up to expectations.

Even at our current record, he still holds value in the locker room and as a trade chip, as other teams would look past his troubling stats.

If you look at his game log from the past few seasons, it's not crazy different from what he's putting up this season. But I think I speak for everyone when I say we expected him to push us to more wins. Still, I could argue he has helped us win games we otherwise wouldn't have, even if you wanted more.

My verdict: not the worst/second worst.

Also...

If WePark have the stones to make a trade before the deadline, they could maximize the type of player everyone expected when we signed KCP.

Because let's face it, as constructed, this team won't go as far as we want.

his season averages over the past few seasons are drastically different.

What's your definition of "drastic"?

I acknowledge his numbers are down, but not by much.

Especially over the past few seasons.

I'm not happy with the production either. But let's not pretend he's been playing with the team's best players during this time.

And let's put this in perspective: he wasn't going to be a savior. If anyone thought his signing was even close to the kind of upgrade Rashard or Horace brought, he was never meant to be that kind of signing.

Again, I'm not so much as defending him as much as I'm saying he's pretty much in line with what we should've expected.

well, 31% vs 40%+ from 3, 41% vs 46% from the field. thats pretty drastic for me

[Kent]

his season averages over the past few seasons are drastically different.

What's your definition of "drastic"?

I acknowledge his numbers are down, but not by much.

Especially over the past few seasons.

I'm not happy with the production either. But let's not pretend he's been playing with the team's best players during this time.

And let's put this in perspective: he wasn't going to be a savior. If anyone thought his signing was even close to the kind of upgrade Rashard or Horace brought, he was never meant to be that kind of signing.

Again, I'm not so much as defending him as much as I'm saying he's pretty much in line with what we should've expected.

well, 31% vs 40%+ from 3, 41% vs 46% from the field. thats pretty drastic for me

That's fair.

[OrlChamps2030]

In a vacuum, his signing hasn't lived up to expectations.

Even at our current record, he still holds value in the locker room and as a trade chip, as other teams would look past his troubling stats.

If you look at his game log from the past few seasons, it's not crazy different from what he's putting up this season. But I think I speak for everyone when I say we expected him to push us to more wins. Still, I could argue he has helped us win games we otherwise wouldn't have, even if you wanted more.

My verdict: not the worst/second worst.

Also...

If WePark have the stones to make a trade before the deadline, they could maximize the type of player everyone expected when we signed KCP.

Because let's face it, as constructed, this team won't go as far as we want.

his season averages over the past few seasons are drastically different.

What's your definition of "drastic"?

I acknowledge his numbers are down, but not by much.

Especially over the past few seasons.

I'm not happy with the production either. But let's not pretend he's been playing with the team's best players during this time.

And let's put this in perspective: he wasn't going to be a savior. If anyone thought his signing was even close to the kind of upgrade Rashard or Horace brought, he was never meant to be that kind of signing.

Again, I'm not so much as defending him as much as I'm saying he's pretty much in line with what we should've expected.

Not posting his %’s?

Nice..

[DKB333]

Reminds me of when the Raptors signed DeMarre Carroll.

[drsd]

I agree with a lot being said by a lot of the names.

Caldwell-Pope has not been a good signing. That there is a 3rd year on the deal kind of sucks.

But in no way is the second worst FA signinee ever.

Why? Because none of the above discussion is talking about the FA signee that crippled the team: Grant Hill. His contract on Orlando for 7 years, which of the 574 games he was paid for, he played only 200 (averging over 7 years <29 games per season).

The issue for Hill is that his contract meant the team could not develop around McGrady. His ankles made the team bad for a long time. The size and scale of his pay was destructive.

Caldwell-Pope is overpaid. But his contract will not destroy the team.

[Skybox]

I assume Fultz was a FA when we re-upped him? (or just a rookie extension, which excuses that mess from this topic)

[KillMonger]

KCP has not been the signing we thought it was going to be....sure people will say "but the defense" we didn't have a defense problem....we were a top 10 defense last season....KCP was brought in to address the shooting issue, that was weltman's answer to that.....To his defense though nobody would've thought that a player that in the last 4 or 5 seasons was a knockdown shooter would come here and forget how to shoot....what makes it worse is how many wide open shots he misses

[MMFla]

I wasn't a big fan of the signing, I feel Jalen is best suited to be a sg and thought before we signed KCP that either Black would start or we go after a legit point guard.

[anothermagicfan]

KCP has definitely not been the player we hoped he would be for us. With that said it's not uncommon for really good shooters to have an off year shooting the ball. If he goes back to shooting 40% next year and we win 50+ games not a single person here should care about an off year. If he sucks again next year then yeah he's in the bad fa signing camp but still far from the worst.

[dsg2021]

My opinion, I still see a lot of fantastic defense by KCP. He's not super one-dimensional either. It's bad with the shooting so far, but not in the worst FA signing category. The trade piece idea might be very real though, because the contract is just short enough to be included in a lot of trade proposals, maybe starting even this season already. And I don't know how KCP and ORL players could even object to it happening this early IF it was clear-cut big upgrade.

[GelbeWand09]

KCP has not been the signing we thought it was going to be....sure people will say "but the defense" we didn't have a defense problem....we were a top 10 defense last season....KCP was brought in to address the shooting issue, that was weltman's answer to that.....To his defense though nobody would've thought that a player that in the last 4 or 5 seasons was a knockdown shooter would come here and forget how to shoot....what makes it worse is how many wide open shots he misses

That's a thinking I never understood. His 3p volume was always too low to make a real impact on offense and our 3p shooting. If KCP shot his normal % we are maybe 28 or 29th offense now instead of 30th. It's not like we signed a 9 3pa player. A real PG and real offense probably takes us at least in late teens.
KCP is a nice player but he is the worse version of the player we had already at his position. He just doesn't solve any of our problems from last or this year even when he hits 1-3 threes on his normal % per game, because that's the volume you had to expect from him.

[pepe1991]

KCP made 125 threes last year in 308 shot

Compare it to real shooters
Klay 268 made
Bogdan 240
DiVicenzo 280
Lillard 220
White 209
Derrick White 197


Steph Curry 357

His volume is small, he is conservative shooter and not really comfortable shooting off curls, rather stand still, wide open shooter.
On Magic such views don't exist because there is no Jokić nor Lebron to provide such gravity nor pas perfect balls to him

[zaymon]

KCP has not been the signing we thought it was going to be....sure people will say "but the defense" we didn't have a defense problem....we were a top 10 defense last season....KCP was brought in to address the shooting issue, that was weltman's answer to that.....To his defense though nobody would've thought that a player that in the last 4 or 5 seasons was a knockdown shooter would come here and forget how to shoot....what makes it worse is how many wide open shots he misses

That's a thinking I never understood. His 3p volume was always too low to make a real impact on offense and our 3p shooting. If KCP shot his normal % we are maybe 28 or 29th offense now instead of 30th. It's not like we signed a 9 3pa player. A real PG and real offense probably takes us at least in late teens.
KCP is a nice player but he is the worse version of the player we had already at his position. He just doesn't solve any of our problems from last or this year even when he hits 1-3 threes on his normal % per game, because that's the volume you had to expect from him.

Unless its to consolidate a trade. He was the only realistic target for that much money.
Yeah now it sucks, but i can see the plan.
I dont agree with everything Weltman does. I wrote many times that he too often aquires similar profile of players- anxious, with low confidence, high energy on defense but low skill level.
Weltman is smart. He should do some soul searching, target some more problematic but confident players.

[cedric76]

Definitely not