Who was more impressive in the finals? Giannis or Jokic

[cupcakesnake]

Jokic got to beat up an undersized, depleted, injured Heat. It's easily Giannis.

Eh, destroying Deandre Ayton and Jae Crowder (backed up by Frank Kaminsky and Torrey Craig) isn't a more impressive accomplishment than a frontcourt with Bam in it.

Neither finals opponent was well equipped to deal with either of these guys.

you’re underrating how good Ayton was in those playoffs. He was legitimately playing for a max. He also had a great series vs. Jokic that year. Bam is 6’9 and heavily undersized. He’s great defensively, but he’s going to run into issues against the bigger Jokic. Imo beating Bam who was depleted and whose backup was Cody Zeller is less impressive. Ayton sucks today but in that finals run he was very good.

Ayton had a decent showing against Jokic that year, but in a very skewed context where Denver had no guards (Facundo Campazzo and Austin Rivers started in that series). Not only was there no 2-man game to operate in, but Phoenix could sag off every ball handler and sit in Jokic's lanes.

I thought Ayton was amazing against both LA teams in those playoffs, but less so against both Jokic and Giannis.

You're correct to point out that Ayton was much better in those playoffs that he's ever been since, but even at the time, I felt his defense was getting vastly overrated from looking so good against the injured LA frontcourts. AD/Drummond, and Zubac/Cousins were all playing through injuries and missing games. Ayton basically looked really solid against 3 very injured teams, and then a healthy Milwaukee just throttled him. I felt it was a bit of a mirage at the time, but gave him the benefit of the doubt that he'd keep improving and that those playoffs were a positive.

Jokic crushing Miami wasn't impressive either, but I don't think Giannis was up against a good defensive frontcourt. Even if you loved Ayton in that series (which I think is dubious), Phoenix was a really tiny team around him. 6'5" Crowder as the primary power forward, a few other wings (Cam Johnson who was a defensive liability that year, and Torrey Craig who is also 6'5" and then Frank Kaminsky).

[ITYSL]

Murray was the better #2 but it was really Gordon that stepped up in the Finals that year. Overall I think Giannis had the better supporting cast, but the way he dominated in the Finals has me leaning toward him. It's close though and you can't fault anyone for choosing either

[Himothy Duncan]

The Bucks had a fraudulent, injury plagued run to the finals but Giannis delivered more once he got there.

[Iwasawitness]

Giannis simply had a lot more help. Jokic did a carry job of almost Nowitzkish dimensions.

Murray was great in that playoffs run in 2023.....Look at how the players perform,not just at the names of the players and the number of all-star games who is just a popularity contest...

The entire nuggets team was impressive. He’s just spouting nonsense per usual.

[JayMKE]

The Bucks had a fraudulent, injury plagued run to the finals but Giannis delivered more once he got there.

Ain’t nothing fraudulent about it, there were injuries the year Denver won too and literally every postseason. Maybe if Harden wasn’t so out of shape that year he wouldn’t have inevitably injured himself. Series was gonna be 2-2 either way before Kyrie got hurt, don’t get caught up on two home games to start a series.

[lessthanjake]

Jokic is a better player than Giannis, but the degree of difficulty in Giannis’s Finals was higher than it was in Jokic’s. Jokic’s overall playoff run was better than Giannis’s, but Giannis had the more impressive Finals IMO.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Jokic is a better player than Giannis, but the degree of difficulty in his Finals was higher than it was in Jokic’s. Jokic’s overall playoff run was better than Giannis’s, but Giannis had the more impressive Finals IMO.

Thats a good take and as they say, a team has to play who is in front of them so trashing a guy because no stronger team made it to challenge him in the finals is just a haters take.

[Bank Shot]

Jokic is a better player than Giannis, but the degree of difficulty in his Finals was higher than it was in Jokic’s. Jokic’s overall playoff run was better than Giannis’s, but Giannis had the more impressive Finals IMO.

Agree with everything here

[LeBronSpaghetti]

Jokic is a better player than Giannis, but the degree of difficulty in Giannis’s Finals was higher than it was in Jokic’s. Jokic’s overall playoff run was better than Giannis’s, but Giannis had the more impressive Finals IMO.

I also agree with this, well said.

[Wargreymon]

Jokic easily. Everything he does requires supreme talent, execution and skill. He took down prime Butler who went supernova and sent the Bucks home in the first round with prime Giannis and prime Holiday at maximum power.

Giannis wasnt even the real MVP in the series against the Suns. It was Jrue Holiday and his avant garde defense that sent Booker home and the reason why Chris Paul will
never have a ring.

You could argue Jokic had the greatest postseason run of all time in 2023 and nobody else comes close to a distant second.

[JayMKE]

Jokic easily. Everything he does requires supreme talent, execution and skill. He took down prime Butler who went supernova and sent the Bucks home in the first round with prime Giannis and prime Holiday at maximum power.

Giannis wasnt even the real MVP in the series against the Suns. It was Jrue Holiday and his avant garde defense that sent Booker home and the reason why Chris Paul will
never have a ring.

You could argue Jokic had the greatest postseason run of all time in 2023 and nobody else comes close to a distant second.

Nonsense, Giannis missed over half the series and played injured when he came back it wasn’t even close to a full powered Bucks. Saying Giannis wasn’t FMVP is laughable hot take too, enough to dismiss anything you say.

[Godymas]

The Bucks had a fraudulent, injury plagued run to the finals but Giannis delivered more once he got there.

Denver somehow made the finals playing the 8 seed, the 4 seed, the 7 seed and then the 8 seed. Please stop with this nonsense. Oh and the version of PHX that Jokic faced was very much comparable to the version of BKN Giannis faced. Literally no CP3 and a bunch of dudes on a gutted PHX roster.

[OkcSinceSGA]

Jokic overall but in the 2021 finals run.. Giannis had one of the GOAT, maybe top 5 all time two way runs. So I'll pick Giannis finals over Jokic.

[Godymas]

Jokic easily. Everything he does requires supreme talent, execution and skill. He took down prime Butler who went supernova and sent the Bucks home in the first round with prime Giannis and prime Holiday at maximum power.

Giannis wasnt even the real MVP in the series against the Suns. It was Jrue Holiday and his avant garde defense that sent Booker home and the reason why Chris Paul will
never have a ring.

You could argue Jokic had the greatest postseason run of all time in 2023 and nobody else comes close to a distant second.

Nonsense, Giannis missed over half the series and played injured when he came back it wasn’t even close to a full powered Bucks. Saying Giannis wasn’t FMVP is laughable hot take too, enough to dismiss anything you say.

Wow, I didn't see that post, but he really tried to argue that the FMVP didn't belong to the player that averaged 35-14-5 on 65% TS who also had 1.8 blocks and 1.2 steals per game.

He ALSO said the FMVP belonged to Jrue Holiday who averaged 16-6-9 shooting 36% from the field and 36% from 3 (44% True shooting btw) just because Jrue Holiday played good defense to average 2.2 steals and .7 blocks which is less combined Stocks btw.

I mean Jrue played such stellar D that Devin Booker only averaged 28 ppg. CP3 averaged 21 ppg. In fact the entire collective team of PHX shot 49-38-85 splits in the finals while Milwaukee was 46-35-72 which means their efficiency was worse and what was the reason for keeping them in the game? Well it helps when your star player is getting rebounds to keep possessions alive, getting timely blocks and steals, and also is literally the only guy making the offense do anything with Middleton putting up pretty average efficiency for 24 ppg.

[sashaturiaf]

Jokic all day

Giannis playing on easy mode just being 7 foot and running and dunking has a lot of truth to it. I'm not impressed by his game at all, he's just a supreme athlete. The minute he comes up against someone who's bigger and just as athletic he will be exposed. I mean Wemby doesn't have his strength but he is longer and just as mobile and he made Giannis look very human yesterday

[MrGoat]

Talking Finals? This is easily Giannis, he was playing against a better and healthier team, put up bigger stats, and came back from an early deficit to drop a 50 burger in the elimination game, and was even playing through an injury.

[JayMKE]

Jokic all day

Giannis playing on easy mode just being 7 foot and running and dunking has a lot of truth to it. I'm not impressed by his game at all, he's just a supreme athlete. The minute he comes up against someone who's bigger and just as athletic he will be exposed. I mean Wemby doesn't have his strength but he is longer and just as mobile and he made Giannis look very human yesterday

So is Wemby not impressive either since he’s just a freak athlete too? Don’t think you even know what narrative you’re grasping at here, maybe stick to just one. Don’t think the 2x MVP, DPOTY, and FMVP is getting “exposed” gtfo of here

[hardenASG13]

Jokic easily. Everything he does requires supreme talent, execution and skill. He took down prime Butler who went supernova and sent the Bucks home in the first round with prime Giannis and prime Holiday at maximum power.

Giannis wasnt even the real MVP in the series against the Suns. It was Jrue Holiday and his avant garde defense that sent Booker home and the reason why Chris Paul will
never have a ring.

You could argue Jokic had the greatest postseason run of all time in 2023 and nobody else comes close to a distant second.

None of that is remotely true

[Godymas]

Jokic is a better player than Giannis, but the degree of difficulty in Giannis’s Finals was higher than it was in Jokic’s. Jokic’s overall playoff run was better than Giannis’s, but Giannis had the more impressive Finals IMO.

I think stuff like this is insane to say. "Jokic is a better player than Giannis"

like Jokic is a little bit better in terms of all time on OFFENSE than Giannis

but when you compare Jokic and Giannis on defense (and remember that Giannis has a DPOY), Jokic is literally one of the worst defenders in the league at his position.

So you have a guy that is an amazing offensive player that can overcome their awful defense

and you have a guy that's pretty damn awesome on offense, just not as good of a playmaker, and also plays elite defense

to say Jokic is a better player than Giannis is disingenuous and has no real justification.

Then you look at the single ring each player has, and the one Giannis won is just that much more impressive.

[lessthanjake]

Jokic is a better player than Giannis, but the degree of difficulty in Giannis’s Finals was higher than it was in Jokic’s. Jokic’s overall playoff run was better than Giannis’s, but Giannis had the more impressive Finals IMO.

I think stuff like this is insane to say. "Jokic is a better player than Giannis"

like Jokic is a little bit better in terms of all time on OFFENSE than Giannis

but when you compare Jokic and Giannis on defense (and remember that Giannis has a DPOY), Jokic is literally one of the worst defenders in the league at his position.

So you have a guy that is an amazing offensive player that can overcome their awful defense

and you have a guy that's pretty damn awesome on offense, just not as good of a playmaker, and also plays elite defense

to say Jokic is a better player than Giannis is disingenuous and has no real justification.

Then you look at the single ring each player has, and the one Giannis won is just that much more impressive.

Jokic is absolutely not “one of the worst defenders in the league at his position.” If we look at impact data, we can see that that’s clearly not the case. How could that be, given that Jokic is not a good rim protector? Well, one reason is that Jokic is actually a GOAT-level defensive rebounder, having an impact on his team’s defensive rebounding percentage that is a close #2 in the entire play-by-play era (i.e. 1997 onwards). This is a really big deal! He’s also better than most centers in terms of forcing turnovers, which matters a good bit too. The overall result is that he doesn’t have the defensive impact of an elite rim protector, but he’s still generally a solidly positive defensive player.

More generally, the basis for Jokic being a better player than Giannis is that Jokic has more impact on his team than Giannis does—which we can glean from a survey of impact metrics as well as box metrics that are designed to correlate with impact. It’s not entirely clear cut, since Giannis looks great too and does look better in some impact data, but on balance I think Jokic looks better overall.