LaVine traded to the Kings as part of 3 team deal (Huerter, Tre Jones to Bulls)

[Indomitable]

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[League Circles]

Very hard to make that argument. He was playing very well this year IMO.

I would argue it was his best year since being a Bull and best season in his entire career.

Zach is having a great season. But it doesn’t matter because:

1. He wasn’t going to be part of the future either way and
2. His contract was making it virtually impossible to move him for value.

The bottom line is that a Zach trade was always going to look something like this. The sooner folks come to that realization, the sooner people will see why this makes sense.

He could and should have been part of our future if this was the best offer available for him.

It would be super awesome if he always looked like this.

[Wingy]

By the way, the Kings messed up BAD. They should have kept Haliburton when they had him. Instead they chose to keep D'Aaron Fox and trade Haliburton to Indiana.

Now, D'Aaron Fox is gone, too.

Revisionist history. Fox’s value was depressed back then. To a lesser degree, but somewhat akin to the way Lavine is perceived now. Basically dude on a max who’s not worth it.

He rehabbed his value after Hali was gone.

I’m with everyone that says take BPA, but the Kings are a lesson in showing that can come with real risk.

[Jcool0]

I think even the end of Dec or beginning of January should've been the absolute latest. Bulls aren't getting Cooper Flag, their best hope is Ace Bailey or Dylan Harper due to GM negligence.

FWIW the Raptors are 16-33 but 8-2 in last 10 games. Brooklyn is also 16-33 and has a 2 games winning streak. Toronto has the easiest remaining schedule and Brooklyn has the 7th. Philly at 19-29 has the 3rd easiest schedule. Bulls have the 10th hardest schedule remaining. Realistically we could get to 7th (currently Philly) which would give us a 7.5% chance of #1. But they do have a chance at #5 which would be 10% odds (the worst 3 teams have 14% odds).

If you're tanking, you really want to finish in the bottom 3. That's the right way to do it. I'd even say bottom 4 is fine, but every percentage point matters in a tank year.

We've played 50 games. Have 32 to go. We have to make up 9 losses in 32 games right now to be one of the worst 4 teams. Its a tough ask. No doubt. I just don't see it happening.

Tanking is no grantee anymore. Pistons had 14% odds to get Wemby in 2023 and drafted 5th.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

So we have too many players on the roster now. What's the deadline on rectifying that?

[Stratmaster]

If Zach gets Fox's 20 shots per game he will likely average 30 points. The Kings just got way more efficient and now have a real shooter to go along with Sabonis

How are the Kings going to be better than the Bulls of the last 3 years?

Sabonis, Monk, Murray, Lyles, Carter & Ellis are not a noticeably better group that Vuc, Caruso, White, Ayo, Drummond & Williams etc.

Where did I say that in my post? But not having White and Williams is an improvement on its own.

[MrSparkle]

So we have too many players on the roster now. What's the deadline on rectifying that?

I don’t know, but what I do know is that Billy can potentially play this line-up:

Tre
Jevon
Coby
Duarte
Ayo at C

Backup C: THT

[Stratmaster]

Someone needs to check on Strat.

IKR?

Honestly, after the last 10 game stretch, happy to see it. I can for the first time root for a different team and between Demarc and Zach I can pretend it's the Bulls.

But seriously, I really wasn't that big a Lavine fan until all the ridiculous hate and silly narratives on here that all started because he has the audacity to be in the trade for Butler, and then just spiraled out of control from there.

Most talented basketball player in Chicago since MJ and Pippen, and a large percentage of Bulls fans hated him for it.

To the tankers, enjoy losing your way to the bottom of the barrel for the next 4 seasons. Now we can watch Coby chuck while he and Pwont make stupid basketball play after stupid basketball play. Then we can watch Giddy throw flashy passes into the hands of the opposition. Matas will be the next Zach as he shows flashes of greatness only to become frustrated by the comedic roster playing alongside him. The gun chewing coach will tell us everyone just needs to try harder and "we have to get better defensively". And that's it... that's what we are starting with. It's going to be so much fun.

As was pointed out a few weeks ago, Zach had reached the same amount of games in a Bulls uniform as Derrick Rose had played. And scored 1700 more points than Rose did.

I still think Butler was our best player post dynasty, because of his elite defense too. Zach the most gifted scorer, but Butler the better all around player. Imagine how fun this would have been had Gea/Pax used that #11 to take Zach instead of Doug McDermott?!

All fair. I want to be clear that my claim is "the most talented player". Not necessarily the best impact. If Lavine had played alongside Butler and Rose... oh lord.

[SfBull]

It really would have been nice to get anything that seemed like a longer-term piece. I'm a fan of looking at building pieces as having rocks to build the foundation off of. We are down to long term contracts with Buz-Williams-Terry-Smith and Phillips.

If you laid it out as

1 Open-Open
2 Open-Open
3 Open-Terry-Phillips
4 Buz-Williams
5 Open-Smith

You see who you want to play more. Williams has been much better coming off the bench. Terry I finding his role as a complimentary rotational wing. Smith is already what you want in a depth big. Phillips is a complete unknown IMO.

I think you probably have 2 of your 3-4 long term guys at the Forward rotation.

Excited to see what piece we add in the draft.

I'm assuming our lotto spot is 7

Terry is finding his way as a bust, yesterday's game showed it up again.

[Betta Bulleavit]

I would argue it was his best year since being a Bull and best season in his entire career.

Zach is having a great season. But it doesn’t matter because:

1. He wasn’t going to be part of the future either way and
2. His contract was making it virtually impossible to move him for value.

The bottom line is that a Zach trade was always going to look something like this. The sooner folks come to that realization, the sooner people will see why this makes sense.

He could and should have been part of our future if this was the best offer available for him.

It would be super awesome if he always looked like this.

It would be awesome. And as I’ve noted, I’ve been a HUGE Zach supporter. But at some point you have to acknowledge the gap between what we want and what is. And what the situation is, is that Zach is a very good player that is coming up on 30 and is best suited for a team that is closer to contention than we currently are. Zach (on his own) is a player that’s good enough to keep a team like us on the treadmill.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

It really would have been nice to get anything that seemed like a longer-term piece. I'm a fan of looking at building pieces as having rocks to build the foundation off of. We are down to long term contracts with Buz-Williams-Terry-Smith and Phillips.

If you laid it out as

1 Open-Open
2 Open-Open
3 Open-Terry-Phillips
4 Buz-Williams
5 Open-Smith

You see who you want to play more. Williams has been much better coming off the bench. Terry I finding his role as a complimentary rotational wing. Smith is already what you want in a depth big. Phillips is a complete unknown IMO.

I think you probably have 2 of your 3-4 long term guys at the Forward rotation.

Excited to see what piece we add in the draft.

I'm assuming our lotto spot is 7

Terry is finding his way as a bust, yesterday's game showed it up again.

Eh... I don't know if you can consider the 18th pick to be a bust. He's also only 22 and has shown enough flashes to make me think he has a chance of developing into a decent roleplayer.

[dougthonus]

Tre Jones is a UFA this offseason. Anyone watch a lot of him? I know he can shoot and he's small but that's about it.

He started for a couple years but seems limited.

Watch on YouTube

Probably a very capable backup PG

Coming off a 2 year 9per deal

I think Tre Jones is a good value contract. It wouldn't surprise me if we flip him at the deadline for expirings and some 2nds or if we just slide him into back up PG role if we move Ayo / Coby. Our backcourt is definitely crowded, there might be some room for Jones here long term if we clear the decks to maximize future assets, but uncertain we'd do that, and since he'll be a UFA, we'd do it at market value anyway which isn't super exciting.

My hope is that we find a home for Jones for some more draft capital (even if just a couple 2nds), given our situation and the unlikelihood of us getting value out of him on a new deal. I think he's a decent add, just not fitting our needs. Of the 3 guys we got, this is the one I wish was locked up for 2 years.

[Peelboy]

Cool. We got Bulls West now. I will be watching some Kings games now.

I'm not sure what the Kings are doing. That roster isn't anything better than what the Bulls have put out in recent years. Sabonis is better than Vuc but really not by too much.

Keegan is like another version of Patrick Williams & Monk is just another scorer. They don't have any worthwhile defensive players like Caruso or Lonzo.

Sabonis and Keegan are just better than Vuc and especially Pat.

Agree, but a slightly better Bulls from last 3 years is......not that good? Plus I'm not all that convinced that Sabonis is significantly better than Vuc. Most are better than Pat offensively, but he's pretty solid defensively.

Really seems like Sac is riding the treadmill, but given franchise history, they may be happy with that.

[Chi town]

I think even the end of Dec or beginning of January should've been the absolute latest. Bulls aren't getting Cooper Flag, their best hope is Ace Bailey or Dylan Harper due to GM negligence.

FWIW the Raptors are 16-33 but 8-2 in last 10 games. Brooklyn is also 16-33 and has a 2 games winning streak. Toronto has the easiest remaining schedule and Brooklyn has the 7th. Philly at 19-29 has the 3rd easiest schedule. Bulls have the 10th hardest schedule remaining. Realistically we could get to 7th (currently Philly) which would give us a 7.5% chance of #1. But they do have a chance at #5 which would be 10% odds (the worst 3 teams have 14% odds).

If you're tanking, you really want to finish in the bottom 3. That's the right way to do it. I'd even say bottom 4 is fine, but every percentage point matters in a tank year.

We've played 50 games. Have 32 to go. We have to make up 9 losses in 32 games right now to be one of the worst 4 teams. Its a tough ask. No doubt. I just don't see it happening.

We need to go like 8-24 to get to the 5-6 pick.

[SfBull]

Really need to see the picks here.

I at time feel like the last lone Zach supporter, 20+ ppg 60%+ TS% guards simply don't grow on trees.

Where you want to go get drunk tomorrow? Lol

At least Zach won't look incredible getting to the line in a Lakers uniform. He went to another cursed franchise where the refs can ignore contact on his drives.

My biggest fear was Zach going to a team that gets actual respect from the refs and he looks incredible. And the last thing I needed as a Bulls fan in LA was Zach looking like a stud in a Lakers jersey.

I really root for it happens proving how fully incompetent AK is

[DropStep]

Players on huge money just aren't getting as much demand anymore, it seems, no matter who the player is. They are wanted, but they just can't be fit onto anyone's cap sheet without sacrificing the ability to do anything else. Zach. Butler. Even Luka couldn't get another first or young players other than Christie out of the Lakers, and I'm sure they tried - word is starting to come out that the AD trade used to be better for Dallas and got whittled down over time to nothing. It seems this CBA simply doesn't accommodate multiple old-school salaries - or modern max ones, at least not with much flexibility to build the roster (see: Phoenix). I think things are out of whack with the salary structure of the league - specifically, the max is higher than the new CBA practically allows for a decent roster construction. Penalties and limits were imposed, but the max keeps going up as if they weren't. (I don't really know what I'm talking about here, but this is what it seems like.)

Cap room and FRPs and rookie scale players feel more valuable than they have ever been in my lifetime right now, relative to expensive star players. And Zach was on the lower end of those star players, so he didn't get much despite playing really well. Well, what about Mikal Bridges and the five picks? He brought all those picks not because he was an MVP - he isn't - but because he was a good, ascending player making a salary that made sense. The reasonable salary was as important as the player. (It also may be looked back on as too many picks, like Gobert, though that was in a previous NBA universe.) Not wanting to pay Luka a supermax? Are you kidding me? It's a strange new world, and there hasn't been enough time for the changes to filter through the entire cap sheets of team. If that's true, it will take years for it to sort itself out, and weirdness will ensue. Like: without a massive cap increase, I think we are going to see more teams trying not to give stars the max - and that will cause a lot of drama. But it feels like it's just too much - salaries at or above Zach's level don't seem integrated with the rest of the CBA. Right? Feels like there's a real change happening in slow motion, and cap space and picks will rule for a while.

[SfBull]

If Zach gets Fox's 20 shots per game he will likely average 30 points. The Kings just got way more efficient and now have a real shooter to go along with Sabonis

How are the Kings going to be better than the Bulls of the last 3 years?

Sabonis, Monk, Murray, Lyles, Carter & Ellis are not a noticeably better group that Vuc, Caruso, White, Ayo, Drummond & Williams etc.

You're joking,aren't you?

[Stratmaster]

Has Lavine made a statement? I know it won't be the thrashing of Donovan and the front office that I want to hear. Lavine is way too classy for that. But one can hope.

[HoopsterJones]

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Believe when I see it

We’ll get back one of our 2nds we traded away before.

[BigUps]

FWIW the Raptors are 16-33 but 8-2 in last 10 games. Brooklyn is also 16-33 and has a 2 games winning streak. Toronto has the easiest remaining schedule and Brooklyn has the 7th. Philly at 19-29 has the 3rd easiest schedule. Bulls have the 10th hardest schedule remaining. Realistically we could get to 7th (currently Philly) which would give us a 7.5% chance of #1. But they do have a chance at #5 which would be 10% odds (the worst 3 teams have 14% odds).

If you're tanking, you really want to finish in the bottom 3. That's the right way to do it. I'd even say bottom 4 is fine, but every percentage point matters in a tank year.

We've played 50 games. Have 32 to go. We have to make up 9 losses in 32 games right now to be one of the worst 4 teams. Its a tough ask. No doubt. I just don't see it happening.

Tanking is no grantee anymore. Pistons had 14% odds to get Wemby in 2023 and drafted 5th.

No doubt, but you play the odds in these situations. It doesn't always work out, but you certainly put yourself in the absolute best position possible.