[SHAMS] De'Aaron Fox traded to Spurs, Zach Lavine to Kings

[TheGeneral99]

Love this trade for the Spurs, hate it for Sacramento.

Last season Fox finished 45th in Win Shares, 39th in BPM, and 29th in VORP. Fox may not be a top 20 player but he's a legitimate top 40 player and he's only 27 years old. A very nice point guard to pair with Wemby.

Compare this Lavine who finished 271 in Win Shares and 180 in VORP - wildly overrated and turnover prone.

[SacTown Kings]

Not the biggest LaVine fan. Kings couldn't get Vassell out of this?

Why would they want Vassell? Lavine > Vassell. Vassell is not very good.

[Bornstellar]

If Fox is so good and Sabonis finished top 10 in MVP a couple years in a row - why can the Kings barely make the PO (if that?)

Because their roster doesn't fit well together at all and aside from Monk their bench is weak. I like Sabonis, but the reality is if he is your best player, your team is going to need to be perfectly constructed around him to minimize his obvious weaknesses. Your best player being an undersized, post-up C who can't shoot or play defense is a huge problem in today's NBA. Plus, the West is just a gauntlet

[SacTown Kings]

this is really rough return for the kings, two FRP (only one of which i project to be actually valable) and an overpaid Lavine. Bulls already tried Demar/Lavine/offense center, why do the Kings think it will work better for them?

I don't love Fox but the price is so low for the Spurs. They didn't give up any of their actual valuable picks or young players. Wemby is honestly too good to tank, they might as well improve the roster.

The Kings were interested in staying competitive. Fox was doo doo this year. Lavine improves the team (shooting). The picks were extra. If they just went with picks/rebuild then Monk and Sabonis would want out too.

Also, Bulls were one of the top teams with Demar and Lavine until injuries hit.

[bluemj32]

What a trade for the Spurs. Had a feeling it would happen, with his wife being from San Antonio too. The city is definitely buzzing

Sent from my Pixel 6 using RealGM mobile app

[SacTown Kings]

If Fox is so good and Sabonis finished top 10 in MVP a couple years in a row - why can the Kings barely make the PO (if that?)

Because their roster doesn't fit well together at all and aside from Monk their bench is weak. I like Sabonis, but the reality is if he is your best player, your team is going to need to be perfectly constructed around him to minimize his obvious weaknesses. Your best player being an undersized, post-up C who can't shoot or play defense is a huge problem in today's NBA. Plus, the West is just a gauntlet

Sabonis can shoot. He is 2nd in the league in 3pt shooting at 47%. He is not a shot blocker, but he is the #1 rebounder in the league. To say he can't shoot or play defense is absurd. Defensively what kills the Kings is not having a true power forward who can protect the rim.

[Bornstellar]

If Fox is so good and Sabonis finished top 10 in MVP a couple years in a row - why can the Kings barely make the PO (if that?)

Because their roster doesn't fit well together at all and aside from Monk their bench is weak. I like Sabonis, but the reality is if he is your best player, your team is going to need to be perfectly constructed around him to minimize his obvious weaknesses. Your best player being an undersized, post-up C who can't shoot or play defense is a huge problem in today's NBA. Plus, the West is just a gauntlet

Sabonis can shoot. He is 2nd in the league in 3pt shooting at 47%. He is not a shot blocker, but he is the #1 rebounder in the league. To say he can't shoot or play defense is absurd. Defensively what kills the Kings is not having a true power forward who can protect the rim.

He is shooting on 2.4 attempts a game my guy. Not exactly a "volume shooter." He is also a career 35% shooter from distance on 1.4 attempts, not exactly what anyone would call a good shooter. And his current % is an outlier regardless. Grabbing rebounds is irrelevant to playing defense. Why do you think it is that SAC needs a PF that can protect the rim? Because Domas cannot. Hence my point, the team must be constructed around him to minimize his obvious weaknesses and it has not been.

[ITYSL]

It's a good move for Spurs, even if Fox is overrated, which he is. He's a high-volume, low-efficiency scorer, but he'll take some of the attention off Wemby and has shown the capability to carry an offense for a stretch on occasion.

He'll also probably increase his assists in San Antonio just by throwing lobs 10 feet in the air in the vicinity of the basket.

I'd normally say this is a step back for the Kings, but I'm not sure that's the case with Fox and Huerter both having down years. Lavine has been good this year. More like a sideways move - they were a play-in team before and that's what they still are, but at least they picked up a bunch of picks (take note Nico).

[Jadoogar]

this is really rough return for the kings, two FRP (only one of which i project to be actually valable) and an overpaid Lavine. Bulls already tried Demar/Lavine/offense center, why do the Kings think it will work better for them?

I don't love Fox but the price is so low for the Spurs. They didn't give up any of their actual valuable picks or young players. Wemby is honestly too good to tank, they might as well improve the roster.

The Kings were interested in staying competitive. Fox was doo doo this year. Lavine improves the team (shooting). The picks were extra. If they just went with picks/rebuild then Monk and Sabonis would want out too.

Also, Bulls were one of the top teams with Demar and Lavine until injuries hit.

that balls team was always a mirage. They got wrecked in the playoffs and were mediocre every other season. I wouldn't take that 3 sample size as meaningful. As a raptors fan, I have first hand experience watching Demar in the playoffs, he's not a 16 game player.

[Capn'O]

this is really rough return for the kings, two FRP (only one of which i project to be actually valable) and an overpaid Lavine. Bulls already tried Demar/Lavine/offense center, why do the Kings think it will work better for them?

I don't love Fox but the price is so low for the Spurs. They didn't give up any of their actual valuable picks or young players. Wemby is honestly too good to tank, they might as well improve the roster.

The Kings were interested in staying competitive. Fox was doo doo this year. Lavine improves the team (shooting). The picks were extra. If they just went with picks/rebuild then Monk and Sabonis would want out too.

Also, Bulls were one of the top teams with Demar and Lavine until injuries hit.

that balls team was always a mirage. They got wrecked in the playoffs and were mediocre every other season. I wouldn't take that 3 sample size as meaningful. As a raptors fan, I have first hand experience watching Demar in the playoffs, he's not a 16 game player.

Lonzo was also really important to what they were doing and he turned to dust.

[bisme37]

Love it for the Spurs, like it for the Bulls, confused about it for the Kings.

[G R E Y]

If Fox is so good and Sabonis finished top 10 in MVP a couple years in a row - why can the Kings barely make the PO (if that?)

The thing is Fox and Sabonis are both at 1A levels. Both need that prime top tier star to really shine next to, otherwise they may get taxed and tarred with the extra load.

Watch Fox as he gets healthy and in a slightly different role where he's not the getting attention player but playing more off it.

I know people have their views about Fox fit with us or his being overrated but you have to understand that we had Devin Vassell slotted in as the secondary scorer. Before that in the season before Wemby it was Keldon Johnson as primary scorer.

So Fox is instantly a huge scoring upgrade, at a position of need. And I believe in our system, designed to move the ball, he'll get to passing more. He becomes our second best player, the A1 option rightly slotted next to Wemby gravity.

And I am looking forward to the impact of his defense and speed on our transition game.

Even with a potential 5 year $290M contract, it's in his prime, overlaps only slightly with what will surely be a Wemby supermax, we have contracts coming off the books each year, and the cap continues to increase. So in terms if percentage of cap, we still have plenty of room and assets to make roster improvements.

We nearly reached last season's win total by January just by adding CP3 and Barnes, each of whom was an improvement at positions of need. Now add Fox...

The rest of our players get slotted more naturally positionally and in terms of roles ie/SG Vassell becomes the third option, where I believe he'll thrive.

Can't wait to put teams in the defensive torture chamber Fox, Devin, Castle, Sochan... Wemby.

Yes there's work to do but understand Spurs' fans excitement here. Even with flaws, Fox is a huge boost of talent.

Put another way,

Read on Twitter

Make no mistake. This marks a significant turning point in our rebuild.

Read on Twitter

Now we want to grow with Wemby on and off the court (ie/ new arena in the works) and start winning again.

Feels good, man.

ONWARDS!

[Jadoogar]

The Kings were interested in staying competitive. Fox was doo doo this year. Lavine improves the team (shooting). The picks were extra. If they just went with picks/rebuild then Monk and Sabonis would want out too.

Also, Bulls were one of the top teams with Demar and Lavine until injuries hit.

that balls team was always a mirage. They got wrecked in the playoffs and were mediocre every other season. I wouldn't take that 3 sample size as meaningful. As a raptors fan, I have first hand experience watching Demar in the playoffs, he's not a 16 game player.

Lonzo was also really important to what they were doing and he turned to dust.

they don't have a lonzo ball in sacramento either. They are relying mainly on Demar/Lavine/Monk for backcourt creation. Sabonis is a better version of Vuc bt with similar weaknesses. I don't think the Kings got any better.

[reamily]

Spura didnt even lose harrison barnes...lol

[Capn'O]

If Fox is so good and Sabonis finished top 10 in MVP a couple years in a row - why can the Kings barely make the PO (if that?)

The thing is Fox and Sabonis are both at 1A levels. Both need that prime top tier star to really shine next to, otherwise they may get taxed and tarred with the extra load.

Watch Fox as he gets healthy and in a slightly different role where he's not the getting attention player but playing more off it.

I know people have their views about Fox fit with us or his being overrated but you have to understand that we had Devin Vassell slotted in as the secondary scorer. Before that in the season before Wemby it was Keldon Johnson as primary scorer.

So Fox is instantly a huge scoring upgrade, at a position of need. And I believe in our system, designed to move the ball, he'll get to passing more. He becomes our second best player, the A1 option rightly slotted next to Wemby gravity.

And I am looking forward to the impact of his defense and speed on our transition game.

Even with a potential 5 year $290M contract, it's in his prime, overlaps only slightly with what will surely be a Wemby supermax, we have contracts coming off the books each year, and the cap continues to increase. So in terms if percentage of cap, we still have plenty of room and assets to make roster improvements.

We nearly reached last season's win total by January just by adding CP3 and Barnes, each of whom was an improvement at positions of need. Now add Fox...

The rest of our players get slotted more naturally positionally and in terms of roles ie/SG Vassell becomes the third option, where I believe he'll thrive.

Can't wait to put teams in the defensive torture chamber Fox, Devin, Castle, Sochan... Wemby.

Yes there's work to do but understand Spurs' fans excitement here. Even with flaws, Fox is a huge boost of talent.

Put another way,

Read on Twitter

Make no mistake. This marks a significant turning point in our rebuild.

Read on Twitter

Now we want to grow with Wemby on and off the court (ie/ new arena in the works) and start winning again.

Feels good, man.

ONWARDS!

Y'all got lucky with Wemby but the mechanics of the rebuild have been textbook. Well, there was the Sengun miss. I was pretty shocked you didn't take him. But the Spurs brass was almost surgical selling off vets and stockpiling picks. It was pretty obvious you'd be on your feet again soon. Especially, once Wemby fell in your laps.

[Kobe187]

What a pick up by the Spurs, love the way Fox plays, equivalent player to Mitchell imo (tad less offensive talent but slightly better defensively), Spurs will be fun to watch.

[benson13]

If Fox is so good and Sabonis finished top 10 in MVP a couple years in a row - why can the Kings barely make the PO (if that?)

Sabonis is a really good player offensively who plays good team and post defense, but don't get hypnotized by the sexy numbers. The Kings have $40 million being spent on a big who isn't a volume scorer or a rim protector. That's not a recipe for success. I'm not saying the Kings' lack of success is his fault. I'm really just saying Sacramento has talent, but I don't like how they're constructed.

[Drakeem]

that balls team was always a mirage. They got wrecked in the playoffs and were mediocre every other season. I wouldn't take that 3 sample size as meaningful. As a raptors fan, I have first hand experience watching Demar in the playoffs, he's not a 16 game player.

Lonzo was also really important to what they were doing and he turned to dust.

they don't have a lonzo ball in sacramento either. They are relying mainly on Demar/Lavine/Monk for backcourt creation. Sabonis is a better version of Vuc bt with similar weaknesses. I don't think the Kings got any better.

Even if you don't think they got better, those three picks offer more flexibility for moves.

[G R E Y]

If Fox is so good and Sabonis finished top 10 in MVP a couple years in a row - why can the Kings barely make the PO (if that?)

The thing is Fox and Sabonis are both at 1A levels. Both need that prime top tier star to really shine next to, otherwise they may get taxed and tarred with the extra load.

Watch Fox as he gets healthy and in a slightly different role where he's not the getting attention player but playing more off it.

I know people have their views about Fox fit with us or his being overrated but you have to understand that we had Devin Vassell slotted in as the secondary scorer. Before that in the season before Wemby it was Keldon Johnson as primary scorer.

So Fox is instantly a huge scoring upgrade, at a position of need. And I believe in our system, designed to move the ball, he'll get to passing more. He becomes our second best player, the A1 option rightly slotted next to Wemby gravity.

And I am looking forward to the impact of his defense and speed on our transition game.

Even with a potential 5 year $290M contract, it's in his prime, overlaps only slightly with what will surely be a Wemby supermax, we have contracts coming off the books each year, and the cap continues to increase. So in terms if percentage of cap, we still have plenty of room and assets to make roster improvements.

We nearly reached last season's win total by January just by adding CP3 and Barnes, each of whom was an improvement at positions of need. Now add Fox...

The rest of our players get slotted more naturally positionally and in terms of roles ie/SG Vassell becomes the third option, where I believe he'll thrive.

Can't wait to put teams in the defensive torture chamber Fox, Devin, Castle, Sochan... Wemby.

Yes there's work to do but understand Spurs' fans excitement here. Even with flaws, Fox is a huge boost of talent.

Put another way,

Read on Twitter

Make no mistake. This marks a significant turning point in our rebuild.

Read on Twitter

Now we want to grow with Wemby on and off the court (ie/ new arena in the works) and start winning again.

Feels good, man.

ONWARDS!

Y'all got lucky with Wemby but otherwise the rebuild has been textbook. Well, there was the Sengun miss. I was pretty shocked you didn't take him. But the Spurs brass was almost surgical selling off vets and stockpiling picks. It was pretty obvious you'd be on your feet again soon. Especially, once Wemby fell in your laps.

The thing is, and this is going all the way back to 2019 when people said we should have stripped it all down then, it's positioning a team for the right time to rebuild that's also crucial. If we tore it all down then (despite having a roster full for win now players and coming off a high win previous season) we'd have peaked too early for the Wemby sweepstakes. We'd been scouting him since his teens, reportedly.

Instead, we pared it down bit by bit, featured various players, and took advantage of featuring Murray with getting picks rather than players back, and sending White off so he could help another team win more. It was timed in line with Wemby. Yes the lotto balls bounced our way. But we spent a few years accumulating assets and preparing the cap clearing to be ready for wherever they did.

The rest is rebuild history.

I don't know what it is but I'm actually not that enamoured with Sengun. We did work him out predraft as I recall. I just don't think not drafting him was some great loss. And all roads lead to Wemby so if Sengun led to more wins at the wrong time, I'd much rather be in this position.

[The Master]

Read on Twitter

No disrespect, Spurs are definitely well run organization, but I can't stand such tweets, Spurs literally skipped years of rebuilding by taking Wembanyama, some organizations didn't even have 1st picks in their whole history, not to mention 1st picks in very strong drafts, while Spurs had Robinson, Duncan and Wemby in 35 years.

There's no Fox without Wemby and they had 14% chances to get Wemby. Give them 3rd pick in 2023 and Spurs fans would be killing themselves while watching Scoot Henderson (again, no disrespect, he'll be a good player one day) on 15-34 team.