[SHAMS] De'Aaron Fox traded to Spurs, Zach Lavine to Kings

[the_process]

What happened to RC Buford?

[Bornstellar]

What happened to RC Buford?

He is the CEO of Spurs Sports and Entertainment

[John Murdoch]

I don't know what it is but I'm actually not that enamoured with Sengun. We did work him out predraft as I recall. I just don't think not drafting him was some great loss. And all roads lead to Wemby so if Sengun led to more wins at the wrong time, I'd much rather be in this position.

This is an outcomes way of looking at it but I'm talking process. The Spurs were never guaranteed a Wemby outcome, even if they had been the worst team. In fact, Detroit, the worst team, ended up with the 5th pick and Ausar Thompson.

The guy is putting up nearly a 20/10 double double on the second seed in the west in his 4th year. He's somewhere between a Vuc and a Gasol. But more to the point, as a prospect he was a pretty obvious hit. His post skills were just quite advanced for his age. Spurs seemed like an obvious landing spot with all their history with bigs. And if he made you "win too much" he had immediate resale value.

He'd have helped a lot vs Primo and I don't think the Spurs were looking to actively sandbag their pick in hopes of getting Wemby. That's straight revisionist talk.

Bro he reminds me of a more athletic Luis Scola

[jbk1234]

Read on Twitter

No disrespect, Spurs are definitely well run organization, but I can't stand such tweets, Spurs literally skipped years of rebuilding by taking Wembanyama, some organizations didn't even have 1st picks in their whole history, not to mention 1st picks in very strong drafts, while Spurs had Robinson, Duncan and Wemby in 35 years.

There's no Fox without Wemby and they had 14% chances to get Wemby. Give them 3rd pick in 2023 and Spurs fans would be killing themselves while watching Scoot Henderson (again, no disrespect, he'll be a good player one day) on 15-34 team.

Also, they haven't won anything with Fox and Wemby yet.

[Special_Puppy]

Read on Twitter

No disrespect, Spurs are definitely well run organization, but I can't stand such tweets, Spurs literally skipped years of rebuilding by taking Wembanyama, some organizations didn't even have 1st picks in their whole history, not to mention 1st picks in very strong drafts, while Spurs had Robinson, Duncan and Wemby in 35 years.

There's no Fox without Wemby and they had 14% chances to get Wemby. Give them 3rd pick in 2023 and Spurs fans would be killing themselves while watching Scoot Henderson (again, no disrespect, he'll be a good player one day) on 15-34 team.

Also, they haven't won anything with Fox and Wemby yet.

Right they’re a ~37 win pace team at the moment lol

[jbk1234]

No disrespect, Spurs are definitely well run organization, but I can't stand such tweets, Spurs literally skipped years of rebuilding by taking Wembanyama, some organizations didn't even have 1st picks in their whole history, not to mention 1st picks in very strong drafts, while Spurs had Robinson, Duncan and Wemby in 35 years.

There's no Fox without Wemby and they had 14% chances to get Wemby. Give them 3rd pick in 2023 and Spurs fans would be killing themselves while watching Scoot Henderson (again, no disrespect, he'll be a good player one day) on 15-34 team.

Also, they haven't won anything with Fox and Wemby yet.

Right they’re a ~37 win pace team at the moment lol

I think you ought to be able to get out of the first round before proclaiming your rebuild successful and finished.

[Special_Puppy]

Also, they haven't won anything with Fox and Wemby yet.

Right they’re a ~37 win pace team at the moment lol

I think you ought to be able to get out of the first round before proclaiming your rebuild successful and finished.

Or at least a positive net rating

[Sactowndog]

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?s=46

Sam is late to the party and not saying anything

Monk is clearly a better playmaker than Fox, has been the teams main playmaker and will play pg

Yeah just to be clear I am not opposed to Monk playing point. He has a better chemistry with Domas than Fox and more of a passing mentality.

My issue is this trade did not address any of their key needs, keeps their best defender Keon Ellis at under 20 min a game, and doesn’t address a single item in our undermanned and undersized front court.

[Sactowndog]

Most mind boggling thing is why the Kings would not request the Hawks pick in the trade instead they take on the Hornets 2025 pick which is going to end up turning into two second round picks.

For anyone who doesn't know the Kings got the Hornets 2025 pick in the trade, but if the Hornets finish in the lottery this year they will get their pick and it will turn into two second round picks instead.

I’ve seen posts that the Kings didn’t know the protections on the Hornets pick…. Which would be hilariously on brand for the Kangz

Could be why the trade is not final yet

[OxAndFox]

I just can't wait to see what it will be like to have another legit scoring threat (and a clutch one too). Spurs have lost sooo many games this year in the 4th because they had no other reliable scoring options. This also allows someone like Vassell who is not suited to being a #2 to slide into a role as third option. I wonder if a playoff push is out of the question...

A PO push is definitely not out of the question IMO. You mention a couple of the underrated points. Fox in the clutch. Vassell going to a #3 option.

[G R E Y]

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?s=46

Sam is late to the party and not saying anything

Monk is clearly a better playmaker than Fox, has been the teams main playmaker and will play pg

Yeah just to be clear I am not opposed to Monk playing point. He has a better chemistry with Domas than Fox and more of a passing mentality.

My issue is this trade did not address any of their key needs, keeps their best defender Keon Ellis at under 20 min a game, and doesn’t address a single item in our undermanned and undersized front court.

But there's different ways to go about addressing them and now you have more asset flexibility in doing so with extra draft capital, for instance. I don't think either of our our teams are done dealing yet.

[RIPskaterdude]

Most mind boggling thing is why the Kings would not request the Hawks pick in the trade instead they take on the Hornets 2025 pick which is going to end up turning into two second round picks.

For anyone who doesn't know the Kings got the Hornets 2025 pick in the trade, but if the Hornets finish in the lottery this year they will get their pick and it will turn into two second round picks instead.

I’ve seen posts that the Kings didn’t know the protections on the Hornets pick…. Which would be hilariously on brand for the Kangz

Could be why the trade is not final yet

It's not final because Bulls have too many players coming their way. They need to make space first

[The Master]

A PO push is definitely not out of the question IMO. You mention a couple of the underrated points. Fox in the clutch. Vassell going to a #3 option.

Spurs are a back-up C away from being a +50W already (not this year, in terms of level of play).

Fox
Vassell
Barnes
Sochan
Wemby

+

CP3
Castle
Champagnie
Johnson

This is extremely deep and versatile lineup, but not having a decent C alongside Wemby and these smallball experiments may cost them few games. But yeah, them sneaking into the play-ins is a real scenario now anyway.

[Slimjimzv]

Would it be possible to get Vivek, Nico, and Reinsdorf on the same team so the rest of the league can progress in peace?

[hippesthippo]

A PO push is definitely not out of the question IMO. You mention a couple of the underrated points. Fox in the clutch. Vassell going to a #3 option.

Spurs are a back-up C away from being a +50W already (not this year, in terms of level of play).

Fox
Vassell
Barnes
Sochan
Wemby

+

CP3
Castle
Champagnie
Johnson

This is extremely deep and versatile lineup, but not having a decent C alongside Wemby and these smallball experiments may cost them few games. But yeah, them sneaking into the play-ins is a real scenario now anyway.

I haven't looked at the contracts they could match with in a bit, but I'd think SAS could've made a play for Vooch if they were worried about it.

EDIT: Looks like a Barnes/Vucevic framework would work.
EDIT #2: What's wrong with Bassey? I don't see an issue with him at backup C or spot starter.

[tsherkin]

Right they’re a ~37 win pace team at the moment lol

I think you ought to be able to get out of the first round before proclaiming your rebuild successful and finished.

Or at least a positive net rating

I hear you guys, but the move they made from just last year to this year has been rather significant. They look like they're going to be just fine.

[sackings916]

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?s=46

Sam is late to the party and not saying anything

Monk is clearly a better playmaker than Fox, has been the teams main playmaker and will play pg

Yeah just to be clear I am not opposed to Monk playing point. He has a better chemistry with Domas than Fox and more of a passing mentality.

My issue is this trade did not address any of their key needs, keeps their best defender Keon Ellis at under 20 min a game, and doesn’t address a single item in our undermanned and undersized front court.

I’m not sure Ellis plays under 20 mins now. I’m expecting an uptick for both him and Carter. As far as the frontcourt, I’d wait and see if any of the draft capital and TPEs are moved to address some of those needs.

[Exp0sed]

If Fox is so good and Sabonis finished top 10 in MVP a couple years in a row - why can the Kings barely make the PO (if that?)

Because their roster doesn't fit well together at all and aside from Monk their bench is weak. I like Sabonis, but the reality is if he is your best player, your team is going to need to be perfectly constructed around him to minimize his obvious weaknesses. Your best player being an undersized, post-up C who can't shoot or play defense is a huge problem in today's NBA. Plus, the West is just a gauntlet

can't shoot? Sabonis is at least up until a couple of days ago was leading the league in 3%

yes, it was on small volume but still "can't shoot" is a bit of a stretch

[Bornstellar]

If Fox is so good and Sabonis finished top 10 in MVP a couple years in a row - why can the Kings barely make the PO (if that?)

Because their roster doesn't fit well together at all and aside from Monk their bench is weak. I like Sabonis, but the reality is if he is your best player, your team is going to need to be perfectly constructed around him to minimize his obvious weaknesses. Your best player being an undersized, post-up C who can't shoot or play defense is a huge problem in today's NBA. Plus, the West is just a gauntlet

can't shoot? Sabonis is at least up until a couple of days ago was leading the league in 3%

yes, it was on small volume but still "can't shoot" is a bit of a stretch

Again...career 35% three point shooter on 1.4 attempts - that is not a shooter by any stretch of the imagination. Domas is an elite post player and amazing rebounder. But let's not pretend he's a good shooter just because he is having an anomaly season from three in terms of shooting percentage (again, on 2.4 attempts per game)

[tsherkin]

Because their roster doesn't fit well together at all and aside from Monk their bench is weak. I like Sabonis, but the reality is if he is your best player, your team is going to need to be perfectly constructed around him to minimize his obvious weaknesses. Your best player being an undersized, post-up C who can't shoot or play defense is a huge problem in today's NBA. Plus, the West is just a gauntlet

can't shoot? Sabonis is at least up until a couple of days ago was leading the league in 3%

yes, it was on small volume but still "can't shoot" is a bit of a stretch

Again...career 35% three point shooter on 1.4 attempts - that is not a shooter by any stretch of the imagination. Domas is an elite post player and amazing rebounder. But let's not pretend he's a good shooter just because he is having an anomaly season from three in terms of shooting percentage (again, on 2.4 attempts per game)

Let's look at the whole of the player, though, yes?

Sabonis is a career 73% FT shooter. The 76.9% he's shooting this year is the first time he's managed better than 75% and the second time he's been at 75%+.

He doesn't shoot much from range, but he's a career 41.1% shooter from 16-23 feet and has been at 44.4%, 47.1% and 46.4% these past three seasons (active season included).

He's a career 39.6% shooter from 10-16 feet, also on relatively limited volume, but he's been at 51.2%, 46.7% and 43.8% these past 3 seasons.

Dude can shoot. He isn't Jokic or Dirk, sure, but he can shoot and he's been pretty good at it for several years so far. He has his emphasis closer to the basket, sure, but that doesn't mean he can't shoot.