[SHAMS] De'Aaron Fox traded to Spurs, Zach Lavine to Kings

[drone3]

[hardenASG13]

can't shoot? Sabonis is at least up until a couple of days ago was leading the league in 3%

yes, it was on small volume but still "can't shoot" is a bit of a stretch

Again...career 35% three point shooter on 1.4 attempts - that is not a shooter by any stretch of the imagination. Domas is an elite post player and amazing rebounder. But let's not pretend he's a good shooter just because he is having an anomaly season from three in terms of shooting percentage (again, on 2.4 attempts per game)

Let's look at the whole of the player, though, yes?

Sabonis is a career 73% FT shooter. The 76.9% he's shooting this year is the first time he's managed better than 75% and the second time he's been at 75%+.

He doesn't shoot much from range, but he's a career 41.1% shooter from 16-23 feet and has been at 44.4%, 47.1% and 46.4% these past three seasons (active season included).

He's a career 39.6% shooter from 10-16 feet, also on relatively limited volume, but he's been at 51.2%, 46.7% and 43.8% these past 3 seasons.

Dude can shoot. He isn't Jokic or Dirk, sure, but he can shoot and he's been pretty good at it for several years so far. He has his emphasis closer to the basket, sure, but that doesn't mean he can't shoot.

Did you see him vs. the warriors in the playoffs 2 years ago? They completely backed off him and he looked lost. I like Sabonis, but it was a problem.

Wemby adds a pick and pop/slip/roll element that fox has never had, and Fox is a playmaking guard that can put pressure on the rim that Wemby has lacked since he came into the league last year. This move is going to get Wemby alot of the easy points people have been clamoring for him to get.

[sackings916]

Again...career 35% three point shooter on 1.4 attempts - that is not a shooter by any stretch of the imagination. Domas is an elite post player and amazing rebounder. But let's not pretend he's a good shooter just because he is having an anomaly season from three in terms of shooting percentage (again, on 2.4 attempts per game)

Let's look at the whole of the player, though, yes?

Sabonis is a career 73% FT shooter. The 76.9% he's shooting this year is the first time he's managed better than 75% and the second time he's been at 75%+.

He doesn't shoot much from range, but he's a career 41.1% shooter from 16-23 feet and has been at 44.4%, 47.1% and 46.4% these past three seasons (active season included).

He's a career 39.6% shooter from 10-16 feet, also on relatively limited volume, but he's been at 51.2%, 46.7% and 43.8% these past 3 seasons.

Dude can shoot. He isn't Jokic or Dirk, sure, but he can shoot and he's been pretty good at it for several years so far. He has his emphasis closer to the basket, sure, but that doesn't mean he can't shoot.

Did you see him vs. the warriors in the playoffs 2 years ago? They completely backed off him and he looked lost. I like Sabonis, but it was a problem.

Wemby adds a pick and pop/slip/roll element that fox has never had, and Fox is a playmaking guard that can put pressure on the rim that Wemby has lacked since he came into the league last year. This move is going to get Wemby alot of the easy points people have been clamoring for him to get.

Have you seen him this season? Players actually put in work and improve their game especially during the offseason.

[Bornstellar]

can't shoot? Sabonis is at least up until a couple of days ago was leading the league in 3%

yes, it was on small volume but still "can't shoot" is a bit of a stretch

Again...career 35% three point shooter on 1.4 attempts - that is not a shooter by any stretch of the imagination. Domas is an elite post player and amazing rebounder. But let's not pretend he's a good shooter just because he is having an anomaly season from three in terms of shooting percentage (again, on 2.4 attempts per game)

Let's look at the whole of the player, though, yes?

Sabonis is a career 73% FT shooter. The 76.9% he's shooting this year is the first time he's managed better than 75% and the second time he's been at 75%+.

He doesn't shoot much from range, but he's a career 41.1% shooter from 16-23 feet and has been at 44.4%, 47.1% and 46.4% these past three seasons (active season included).

He's a career 39.6% shooter from 10-16 feet, also on relatively limited volume, but he's been at 51.2%, 46.7% and 43.8% these past 3 seasons.

Dude can shoot. He isn't Jokic or Dirk, sure, but he can shoot and he's been pretty good at it for several years so far. He has his emphasis closer to the basket, sure, but that doesn't mean he can't shoot.

Fair points, he can shoot inside the arc decently. I guess I should clarify my original point: Your best player being an undersized C who cannot shoot reliably from three (defenses will always opt to leave him open) and isn't a great defender/rim protector is a problem in today's NBA. I still believe that to be true. And again I never said that Domas was a bad player, I think he's a great player but he clearly has limitations that are not being hidden well by the Kings roster. I don't think that is a crazy take

[Exp0sed]

Because their roster doesn't fit well together at all and aside from Monk their bench is weak. I like Sabonis, but the reality is if he is your best player, your team is going to need to be perfectly constructed around him to minimize his obvious weaknesses. Your best player being an undersized, post-up C who can't shoot or play defense is a huge problem in today's NBA. Plus, the West is just a gauntlet

can't shoot? Sabonis is at least up until a couple of days ago was leading the league in 3%

yes, it was on small volume but still "can't shoot" is a bit of a stretch

Again...career 35% three point shooter on 1.4 attempts - that is not a shooter by any stretch of the imagination. Domas is an elite post player and amazing rebounder. But let's not pretend he's a good shooter just because he is having an anomaly season from three in terms of shooting percentage (again, on 2.4 attempts per game)

damn, poster above me beat to it but is right on the money, 100%

he didn't used to have an extended range to the 3 pt. line but he's worked on it alot these past couple of years and has made great strides. he was also always a goodT shooter and a decent mid-range shooter on plenty of volume. sticking him with "can't shoot" moniker is just off, for his position he's an above average shooter and that's a long ways off "can't shoot"

no1 is arguing he's an elite shooter, he's obviously not

[tsherkin]

Did you see him vs. the warriors in the playoffs 2 years ago? They completely backed off him and he looked lost. I like Sabonis, but it was a problem.

Yes, two years ago was the first year he was showcasing his improvements.

But again...

3/4 from 10-16, 6/14 from 16-23 (42.9%).

He was 1/5 from 3. This is what I'm talking about; you can't judge "shooting ability" solely on the basis of 3pt shooting, and again, he's been making visible strides these past couple seasons. So referencing a 2 year-old playoff series goes only so far.

[Exp0sed]

Again...career 35% three point shooter on 1.4 attempts - that is not a shooter by any stretch of the imagination. Domas is an elite post player and amazing rebounder. But let's not pretend he's a good shooter just because he is having an anomaly season from three in terms of shooting percentage (again, on 2.4 attempts per game)

Fair points, he can shoot inside the arc decently. I guess I should clarify my original point: Your best player being an undersized C who cannot shoot reliably from three (defenses will always opt to leave him open) and isn't a great defender/rim protector is a problem in today's NBA. I still believe that to be true. And again I never said that Domas was a bad player, I think he's a great player but he clearly has limitations that are not being hidden well by the Kings roster. I don't think that is a crazy take

when they did manage to get into the playoffs, hejust cratered vs. the Warriors in the postseason. him not being a "reliable shooter from 3" had very little to do with it. he was down to 49.5% on 2's in that series..he scored considerably less and alot less efficiently, his assists went down from like 7.5 to 4.3 while his To's went up and he even rebounded a bit less

what i'm saying is, he just sucked in that one playolff series they actually got to and it wasn't because he isn't a reliable shooter from three (even tho I think that's def fair take, after your clarification)

[Lalouie]

fox and wemby is enticing

lavine has never ever moved the needle. windhorst and the collective used to jokingly refer to it, and the bulls better record without lavine. it's been this way and even goes back to lavine's ucla days when he basically quit on the team to save his health for the draft

lavine is a stat padder

[Edrees]

Spurs essentially gave up 2 first rounders for Fox. That is really good deal for them. If the Luka trade didn't happen everyone would probably be upset at how fleeced the Kings got.

The 2025 first from the Charlotte Hornets is top-14 protected. Then, it becomes two second-round picks in 2026 and 2027.

There's no way the hornets dont end up inside the top 14 this year.

[Sactowndog]

Sam is late to the party and not saying anything

Monk is clearly a better playmaker than Fox, has been the teams main playmaker and will play pg

Yeah just to be clear I am not opposed to Monk playing point. He has a better chemistry with Domas than Fox and more of a passing mentality.

My issue is this trade did not address any of their key needs, keeps their best defender Keon Ellis at under 20 min a game, and doesn’t address a single item in our undermanned and undersized front court.

But there's different ways to go about addressing them and now you have more asset flexibility in doing so with extra draft capital, for instance. I don't think either of our our teams are done dealing yet.

Sure but trading for a playable 6’ 8” plus wing is very difficult. A guard of Fox’s caliber can possibly get one back but even that can be challenging as we have seen.

[Sactowndog]

[quote="Exp0sed"][quote="Bornstellar"][quote="tsherkin"]

[/quote]

Fair points, he can shoot inside the arc decently. I guess I should clarify my original point: Your best player being an undersized C who cannot shoot reliably from three (defenses will always opt to leave him open) and isn't a great defender/rim protector is a problem in today's NBA. I still believe that to be true. And again I never said that Domas was a bad player, I think he's a great player but he clearly has limitations that are not being hidden well by the Kings roster. I don't think that is a crazy take[/quote]

when they did manage to get into the playoffs, hejust cratered vs. the Warriors in the postseason. him not being a "reliable shooter from 3" had very little to do with it. he was down to 49.5% on 2's in that series..he scored considerably less and alot less efficiently, his assists went down from like 7.5 to 4.3 while his To's went up and he even rebounded a bit less

what i'm saying is, he just sucked in that one playolff series they actually got to and it wasn't because he isn't a reliable shooter from three (even tho I think that's def fair take, after your clarification)[/quote]

It actually had a lot to do with it because Looney basically stood in the paint taking away any back cuts while their defenders pressed out on the shooters. They dared Sabonis to shoot the whole series.

His 3 point shooting has been much improved this season and most don’t watch the Kings enough to realize it. But the lack of Rim protection is an issue and to help address it the Kings need long wing defenders. Where some teams have 3 the Kings have 1. Not getting at least one in this trade for Fox was a serious problem.

[Ice Man]

Yes, the Kings needed length & defense, not Zach. They will be fun to watch but too flawed to do much. Hey, it's the Kings.

[Ice Man]

Yes, the Kings needed length & defense, not Zach. They will be fun to watch but too flawed to do much. Hey, it's the Kings.

[coldfish]

Want a view on just how bad things are for Chicago?

10 years ago, we were one of the biggest fanbases on Realgm. Now? Their best player gets traded for basically nothing and the general board thread on it has hardly any Bulls fans even participating.

The Reinsdorfs killed the brand.

[hardenASG13]

Let's look at the whole of the player, though, yes?

Sabonis is a career 73% FT shooter. The 76.9% he's shooting this year is the first time he's managed better than 75% and the second time he's been at 75%+.

He doesn't shoot much from range, but he's a career 41.1% shooter from 16-23 feet and has been at 44.4%, 47.1% and 46.4% these past three seasons (active season included).

He's a career 39.6% shooter from 10-16 feet, also on relatively limited volume, but he's been at 51.2%, 46.7% and 43.8% these past 3 seasons.

Dude can shoot. He isn't Jokic or Dirk, sure, but he can shoot and he's been pretty good at it for several years so far. He has his emphasis closer to the basket, sure, but that doesn't mean he can't shoot.

Did you see him vs. the warriors in the playoffs 2 years ago? They completely backed off him and he looked lost. I like Sabonis, but it was a problem.

Wemby adds a pick and pop/slip/roll element that fox has never had, and Fox is a playmaking guard that can put pressure on the rim that Wemby has lacked since he came into the league last year. This move is going to get Wemby alot of the easy points people have been clamoring for him to get.

Have you seen him this season? Players actually put in work and improve their game especially during the offseason.

Fair enough, I can't say I've seen a ton of him this season. That warriors series was bad, but I'm not here to bash Sabonis.

Compared to him though, I just think Wemby gives Fox a ton to work with in pick and roll/pop/slip, and that Fox could unleash Wembys clear all time potential as a roller/pop guy. They really needed a guy that can create his own offense and free up Wemby more off the ball, and fox is definitely capable of that. Fox can deliver Wemby more dumpoffs, because he can collapse a defense. Wemby hasnt played with anyone like that, he should get the ball in much better situations inside. Their other players also slot into more appropriate roles.

[tsherkin]

Want a view on just how bad things are for Chicago?

10 years ago, we were one of the biggest fanbases on Realgm. Now? Their best player gets traded for basically nothing and the general board thread on it has hardly any Bulls fans even participating.

The Reinsdorfs killed the brand.

That is definitely the boo-urns. And they had an immense fanbase to start with, building off momentum gained from Jordan's career. And then later when Rose was healthy.

[Castle Black]

[Sixers in 4]

Want a view on just how bad things are for Chicago?

10 years ago, we were one of the biggest fanbases on Realgm. Now? Their best player gets traded for basically nothing and the general board thread on it has hardly any Bulls fans even participating.

The Reinsdorfs killed the brand.

That is sort of the untold story of the trade. The Bulls took back hot trash to me both the Kings and SAS made out fine.

For me I think SAC dodged a bullet mainly because Fox will be 29 when he signs his next extension and LaVine will be 30 when he needs to decide whether to excerise his PO (he probably wont) these things matter. I don't want to pay fox until he is 34 his game doesn't figure to age well either.

For LaVine I don't think SAC views him as a longterm asset. To me this was the best decision even if Fox didn't want out. Lavine also fits that offense better they needed someone to help space the floor Derozan and Fox just didn't work or compliment each other. LaVine is hot or cold but when he is on his game almost perfectly compliments Derozan and he's been on most of the season

[Ballerhogger]

Read on Twitter

though he was going wear Kawhi old number

[Castle Black]

Read on Twitter

though he was going wear Kawhi old number

He was until the Spurs told him no because they're probably going to retire that # for Kawhi (which is insane to think about considering how his departure went down) so they made his pick another one and he decided to wear #4 because it was his wife's number in college.