SHAMS: Caleb Martin to Mavericks

[MrGoat]

It says a lot about the Adelsons that Nico hasn't been fired already, he clearly isn't making moves in the best interest of the team. He claims he traded Luka to improve the defense and then attaches one of the few picks they have left to dump Q Dot? He better never set foot in Dallas again

[JustBuzzin]

Only if they win a championship and Luka never wins a ring in his career, sure.
If Luka wins two championships this trade still looks like a disaster.

But what if the Mavs win more championships than Luka?

Lets be honest about something. Youre only invested in that outcome because you hate the lakers. If you really believe that the Mavs are trading their future to win RIGHT NOW... then you better hope they have more moves in mind, because this roster is good, but its not one that should be favored to MAKE the finals, let alone win one... let alone win more than one lol.

I hate the Lakers?

I literally been glazing the Luka/LeBron duo and saying they are a legit center away from winning the West.

Do you homework before you accuse someone of hating lol

[DreamTeam09]

I like this, Mavs got a little bigger on the wings and a little more grit. Martin/Naji as your bench wing rotation is pretty dope.

Mavs don't need wing guards, they need perimeter defenders. Grimes was more or less perfect for them. But he wanted to test free agency so this was more or less another contract thing Nico wanted to avoid.

Perimeter defenders are wing guards are they not? At least for the most part, so I don't really get the correlation of your first point. Martin is a perimeter defender

[Doranku]

Another awful trade. My guy Kyrie is so unlucky. First the clown fiesta that was the Nets organization, now this absolutely nuclear meltdown from Dallas's FO. I was optimistic about this Dallas team after first hearing the news, but the more I think about it, the more I think they're going to miss the playoffs entirely.

[MikRay]

They're in 'win now' mode. Caleb is better than Grimes today. The guy can go on a heater in the PO's and is a proven performer. He was the Heats' second best player in some games 2 years ago....the guy can ball.

Nico is quietly building something in Dallas...

...is Caleb actually better than Grimes? lol. I'm not sure the facts bear that out. Caleb being on a playoff heater 2 years ago isnt the best indicator that hes a consistently good player.

Grimes is better and 5 years younger

[QingJames]

He needs a new contract and Dallas tried to resign him in the summer and failed. Martin has an extremely fair contract. That matters.

Unless they are max guys, young players who are set to become free agents are not worth much.

So go all-in on winning a championship this season but then downgrade your perimeter defense because of costs?
Make it make sense. Feels like a dumb hedge. If you made the Luka deal because you think you can win this year, why then follow up with a trade that makes your team fit together worse (even if marginally).

Martin is just as good as a defender as Grimes is if not better, also with more of a resume and cost control. Not much to overthink here

He quite literally has not been remotely as good of a perimeter defender as Grimes this year. You're just flat-out wrong in saying he's been as good as Grimes.

[QingJames]

He needs a new contract and Dallas tried to resign him in the summer and failed. Martin has an extremely fair contract. That matters.

Unless they are max guys, young players who are set to become free agents are not worth much.

So go all-in on winning a championship this season but then downgrade your perimeter defense because of costs?
Make it make sense. Feels like a dumb hedge. If you made the Luka deal because you think you can win this year, why then follow up with a trade that makes your time fit together worse (even if marginally).

I mean they likely feel they have a window longer than a year with AD. Granted it's shorter than with Luka and it was an awful trade but there is no reason to believe they have a one year window.

How long is their window?
My point is simply this: they traded away a 25 year old superstar because they thought it would give them a better chance to win in the immediate and short-term. So why now worry about cost cutting? If you truly think you can win multiple championships (or meaningfully compete for them) this year and the next one (maybe two?) then why are they afraid of paying the luxury tax.
Which other contenders are swapping out better-fitting players for worse-fitting players to cut costs?

It just lends more credence to the idea that the real reason they traded Luka was because they don't want to pay him.

[316Hornets]

This Mavericks team is so old school playing style and with Kyrie leading really interesting. Dark horse this season for sure now that Luka is gone.

[MrGoat]

Another awful trade. My guy Kyrie is so unlucky. First the clown fiesta that was the Nets organization, now this absolutely nuclear meltdown from Dallas's FO. I was optimistic about this Dallas team after first hearing the news, but the more I think about it, the more I think they're going to miss the playoffs entirely.

Kyrie has a player option next season, he can leave if he wants, and he should if they don't offer him the full 5 year max. Then he should take it and demand a trade soon after

[Decipher]

We are clearing salary wouldn't be surprised to see grimes moved again and George moved

George has the worst contract in the NBA so it will cost a fortune to move

[Archx]

I like this, Mavs got a little bigger on the wings and a little more grit. Martin/Naji as your bench wing rotation is pretty dope.

Mavs don't need wing guards, they need perimeter defenders. Grimes was more or less perfect for them. But he wanted to test free agency so this was more or less another contract thing Nico wanted to avoid.

Perimeter defenders are wing guards are they not? At least for the most part, so I don't really get the correlation of your first point. Martin is a perimeter defender

I tried to say that Grimes was a better defender, plus when they needed, he was really good on offense as well. A ton of fans actually expected him to start at some point instead of Klay. That's why general belief is this was a move purely from a financial standpoint.

[ryguy613]

But what if the Mavs win more championships than Luka?

Lets be honest about something. Youre only invested in that outcome because you hate the lakers. If you really believe that the Mavs are trading their future to win RIGHT NOW... then you better hope they have more moves in mind, because this roster is good, but its not one that should be favored to MAKE the finals, let alone win one... let alone win more than one lol.

I hate the Lakers?

I literally been glazing the Luka/LeBron duo and saying they are a legit center away from winning the West.

Do you homework before you accuse someone of hating lol

my bad then. I must have you mixed up with someone else. I remember someone with a hornets logo who doesnt miss an opportunity to talk **** about both LeBron and the Lakers. I havent seen the glazing youve done about the Lakers side of the trade but I believe you. You seem kinda excited about the Dallas side too, unless im misunderstanding.

Either way my overall point remains the same. If the Mavs really did this trade to maximize chances of winning a title, they have more work to do, IMO. This can definitely be like... a top 4 team in the west, but a title team? I dont see it. maybe im wrong but I think they need more.

[ROballer]

We are clearing salary wouldn't be surprised to see grimes moved again and George moved

George has the worst contract in the NBA so it will cost a fortune to move

That's a bollocks take anyway. They simply took advantage of the Grimes contract situation and got the better player and fit back.

So you know, they don't have to start Eric Gordon's corpse or rookie Edwards in the backcourt with Maxey.

Martin was super redundant with George, Oubre and Yabusele there.


Philadelphia is making the play-in even if Embiid is not playing another game, the east is that bad. They know this and that's why they're not rushing him back.

They'll probably have to face two manageable teams as well and even avoid the Celtics in the 1st round.

They aren't clearing ****.

[ryguy613]

Mavs don't need wing guards, they need perimeter defenders. Grimes was more or less perfect for them. But he wanted to test free agency so this was more or less another contract thing Nico wanted to avoid.

Perimeter defenders are wing guards are they not? At least for the most part, so I don't really get the correlation of your first point. Martin is a perimeter defender

I tried to say that Grimes was a better defender, plus when they needed, he was really good on offense as well. A ton of fans actually expected him to start at some point instead of Klay. That's why general belief is this was a move purely from a financial standpoint.

yeah, if you compare these players it becomes clear this is not about talent or fit, this is just about finances. seems like they didnt want to pay Grimes this offseason. That might pay off for them in the long term if they are able to make more moves, but from a pure 1 vs 1 basketball move? this is not an upgrade. its lateral at best. i would argue its a slight downgrade.

[DreamTeam09]

So go all-in on winning a championship this season but then downgrade your perimeter defense because of costs?
Make it make sense. Feels like a dumb hedge. If you made the Luka deal because you think you can win this year, why then follow up with a trade that makes your team fit together worse (even if marginally).

Martin is just as good as a defender as Grimes is if not better, also with more of a resume and cost control. Not much to overthink here

He quite literally has not been remotely as good of a perimeter defender as Grimes this year. You're just flat-out wrong in saying he's been as good as Grimes.

Maybe not this year, but that would also be a relatively small sample size. To say this trade makes the Mavs team fit worse, you're just flat out wrong in saying that.

[Sixers in 4]

We are clearing salary wouldn't be surprised to see grimes moved again and George moved

George has the worst contract in the NBA so it will cost a fortune to move

That's a bollocks take anyway. They simply took advantage of the Grimes contract situation and got the better player and fit back.

So you know, they don't have to start Eric Gordon's corpse or rookie Edwards in the backcourt with Maxey.

Martin was super redundant with George, Oubre and Yabusele there.


Philadelphia is making the play-in even if Embiid is not playing another game, the east is that bad. They know this and that's why they're not rushing him back.

They'll probably have to face two manageable teams as well and even avoid the Celtics in the 1st round.

They aren't clearing ****.

Why is it a bollocks take? Compared to Dallas, we are less able to accommodate a Grimes extension. Have you looked at the Sixers cap situation?

Our starting SF, Caleb Martin, also played more than 30 minutes per game on average. There wasn't redundancy with Yasu, who we use primarily as a PF when our bigs are healthy and as a small ball center. What on earth are you talking about?

[RunOKC]

Calling him a winning player based on one small sample size of one playoff run when he has never been able to even come close to replicating those shooting numbers is no different than calling him a losing player based on a larger sample size of him completely forgetting how to finish within the arc.

True. Shooting splits are the only thing that matter in basketball.

And yet shooting splits are the only thing you can point to to say that Martin is a winning player. Unless you just have some airy-fairy indeterminable je ne sais quois belief that Martin is a "winner".

What has Quentin Grimes done again?

Played much better defense than Caleb Martin this season for one.

That was obvious sarcasm when I said "shooting splits were the only thing that matter". Surprised you didn't pick up on that

Caleb Martin played a significant role in leading his team to the finals just two seasons ago. That alone proves he's a decent player. To act like trading Quentin effing Grimes who's accomplished nothing yet and puts up similar numbers is some sort of huge mistake is laughable. Martin's a guy that will get you 10/5/3 most nights on alright shooting #'s and have a couple of 15-20+ pt games in a series. And he's a good defender. I'll take him any day to replace a guy that's likely gone this off season.

You straight up called him a loser because he didn't carry this hospital Sixers team missing missing their top 4 guys for a lot of the season. Very logical opinion
Agree to disagree.

[Decipher]

Another awful trade. My guy Kyrie is so unlucky. First the clown fiesta that was the Nets organization, now this absolutely nuclear meltdown from Dallas's FO. I was optimistic about this Dallas team after first hearing the news, but the more I think about it, the more I think they're going to miss the playoffs entirely.

Mentioned it elsewhere that I would be tanking hard if I was the Mavs

They’re in 8th and going nowhere with an old team

[M2J]

Caleb's a good player. I think the last two seasons he is struggled with a role that's too big for him because his stars have not been playing opening up shots for him.

But he's a quality outlet and defender

Mavs probably felt like Grimes might cost a bit more this summer and Caleb is controlled for a few years.

Anyways, what's clear is that the Mavs are all in on this season and trying to setup a winning culture that Martin adds to for sure. I like their team, but unless actually having stars that play helps Klay improve his output, or Spencer plays better out of the blue, they should get another guard for creating and scoring

[RIPskaterdude]

Martin/Naji/PJ/AD

Lotta forwards and only 1 good guard in Kyrie. Guess Naji is on the way out too?

Christie?