SHAMS: Caleb Martin to Mavericks

[gottamakeit]

eh. Same level player, but Grimes does have better playmaking chops (tho still below average). For a team that now has 1 above average perimeter playmaker (Kyrie), trading anyone who can dribble the ball at any level for someone who cant does seem weird tho. But there's no real difference in the level of player and i think most teams would take the extra size with Caleb

Quentin Grimes is a 24 year old 3+D guard, who gets better every year.

Caleb Martin has size, but I don't think he's a better basketball player than Grimes and he's 5 years older.

Grimes doesnt really get better every year tho. His best year was 2 years ago on the Knicks. This is a journeyman guard for a journeyman forward. I dont hate it for either side but Mavs throwing in extra value here with an early 2nd is questionable

Based on my eye test, his best season was his 2nd season with the Knicks (3 years ago). This season for the Mavs, has been his 2nd best season so far. As a mavs fan, im gonna miss him

[Ballerhogger]

Thank ****ing god. I think this trade only mattered to Celtics fans

Martin ghosts pstd ?

[sp6r=underrated]

They're in 'win now' mode. Caleb is better than Grimes today. The guy can go on a heater in the PO's and is a proven performer. He was the Heats' second best player in some games 2 years ago....the guy can ball.

Nico is quietly building something in Dallas...

He’s definitely building “something”

He's building a 6 part documentary about his professional career.

[Ballerhogger]

Is grimes a better defender ?

[TheRaptor!]

Another awful trade. My guy Kyrie is so unlucky. First the clown fiesta that was the Nets organization, now this absolutely nuclear meltdown from Dallas's FO. I was optimistic about this Dallas team after first hearing the news, but the more I think about it, the more I think they're going to miss the playoffs entirely.

is kyrie not a FA?

he can leave summer time

[dakomish23]

Grimes has the potential to be the perfect backcourt partner for Maxey. At worst he is a good role player off then bench in a league desperate for 3&D guys who can guard bigger wings.

Excellent deal for PHI

[316Hornets]

Is grimes a better defender ?

Martin is slightly better according to most metrics. Has a slightly longer wingspan(~2 inches) and able to disrupt a few more passes.

[Edrees]

They're in 'win now' mode. Caleb is better than Grimes today. The guy can go on a heater in the PO's and is a proven performer. He was the Heats' second best player in some games 2 years ago....the guy can ball.

Nico is quietly building something in Dallas...

Yeah, I haven't seen much media coverage on his moves. It's pretty quiet.

[cupcakesnake]

They're in 'win now' mode. Caleb is better than Grimes today. The guy can go on a heater in the PO's and is a proven performer. He was the Heats' second best player in some games 2 years ago....the guy can ball.

Nico is quietly building something in Dallas...

I'd say Caleb is a better point of attack defender, but Grimes is a better offensive player.

Yes, we saw Caleb go on an absolute playoff heater 2 years ago, but overall he's just a solid shooter without a ton in his bag. Grimes was looking good in Dallas. Not only is he a better, higher-volume shooter than Caleb (he's better on the move, on the catch, and off the dribble), but he was starting to show some decent scoring out of DHO and PnR.

This trade is about defense. Caleb's arms are longer and his feet are slightly better.

[Ballerhogger]

Is grimes a better defender ?

Martin is slightly better according to most metrics. Has a slightly longer wingspan(~2 inches) and able to disrupt a few more passes.

So nothing noticeable

[ROballer]

George has the worst contract in the NBA so it will cost a fortune to move

That's a bollocks take anyway. They simply took advantage of the Grimes contract situation and got the better player and fit back.

So you know, they don't have to start Eric Gordon's corpse or rookie Edwards in the backcourt with Maxey.

Martin was super redundant with George, Oubre and Yabusele there.


Philadelphia is making the play-in even if Embiid is not playing another game, the east is that bad. They know this and that's why they're not rushing him back.

They'll probably have to face two manageable teams as well and even avoid the Celtics in the 1st round.

They aren't clearing ****.

Why is it a bollocks take? Compared to Dallas, we are less able to accommodate a Grimes extension. Have you looked at the Sixers cap situation?

Our starting SF, Caleb Martin, also played more than 30 minutes per game on average. There wasn't redundancy with Yasu, who we use primarily as a PF when our bigs are healthy and as a small ball center. What on earth are you talking about?

Martin is a SF-PF. Played a ton of small 4 in Miami.

So are Oubre and George. Guersch is a 4 and small 5.

That's where the redundancy is.


You literally played Gordon on his last legs, Edwards and G-Leaguer Ricky Council in the backcourt alongside Maxey lately.


Grimes is a real 2 and can play 2. Martin couldn't.


Your healthy lineup of Maxey/Grimes/George/Oubre/Embiid with Guersch backing up multiple positions is more balanced and fits better than anything to do with having Gordon or G league level guys starting.

Contract situations are not relevant, you're getting McCain back next year anyway.

The bollocks part is about shedding salaries and George. That's just absurd.

Philly hasn't given up on the season. Nor should they.

[Ballerhogger]

They're in 'win now' mode. Caleb is better than Grimes today. The guy can go on a heater in the PO's and is a proven performer. He was the Heats' second best player in some games 2 years ago....the guy can ball.

Nico is quietly building something in Dallas...

I'd say Caleb is a better point of attack defender, but Grimes is a better offensive player.

Yes, we saw Caleb go on an absolute playoff heater 2 years ago, but overall he's just a solid shooter without a ton in his bag. Grimes was looking good in Dallas. Not only is he a better, higher-volume shooter than Caleb (he's better on the move, on the catch, and off the dribble), but he was starting to show some decent scoring out of DHO and PnR.

This trade is about defense. Caleb's arms are longer and his feet are slightly better.

Slightly worth it? I guess

[phanman]

Even though they are both listed at 6'5, Caleb plays and most importantly defends bigger wings. They had to open up some space for Max Christie to get playing time and I think its been evident how much Kidd loves placing Spencer who is even more important now with Luka gone. Caleb has a favorable contract going forward at just ~8m/season the next 3 seasons after this vs Grimes who is line for a pay raise that the Mavs can't afford.

[Enso]

Is grimes a better defender ?

Martin is slightly better according to most metrics. Has a slightly longer wingspan(~2 inches) and able to disrupt a few more passes.

So nothing noticeable

2 inches makes a big difference in some cases

[Ballerhogger]

Even though they are both listed at 6'5, Caleb plays and most importantly defends bigger wings. They had to open up some space for Max Christie to get playing time and I think its been evident how much Kidd loves placing Spencer who is even more important now with Luka gone. Caleb has a favorable contract going forward at just ~8m/season the next 3 seasons after this vs Grimes who is line for a pay raise that the Mavs can't afford.

Oh ok thats why money .

[QingJames]

Martin is slightly better according to most metrics. Has a slightly longer wingspan(~2 inches) and able to disrupt a few more passes.

So nothing noticeable

2 inches makes a big difference in some cases

LaMelo has a 6'10 wingspan and Suggs has a 6'5 wingspan.
Who's the better defender?

[Enso]

So nothing noticeable

2 inches makes a big difference in some cases

LaMelo has a 6'10 wingspan and Suggs has a 6'5 wingspan.
Who's the better defender?

Who’s the better penetrator ?

[QingJames]

True. Shooting splits are the only thing that matter in basketball.

And yet shooting splits are the only thing you can point to to say that Martin is a winning player. Unless you just have some airy-fairy indeterminable je ne sais quois belief that Martin is a "winner".

What has Quentin Grimes done again?

Played much better defense than Caleb Martin this season for one.

That was obvious sarcasm when I said "shooting splits were the only thing that matter". Surprised you didn't pick up on that

Caleb Martin played a significant role in leading his team to the finals just two seasons ago. That alone proves he's a decent player. To act like trading Quentin effing Grimes who's accomplished nothing yet and puts up similar numbers is some sort of huge mistake is laughable. Martin's a guy that will get you 10/5/3 most nights on alright shooting #'s and have a couple of 15-20+ pt games in a series. And he's a good defender. I'll take him any day to replace a guy that's likely gone this off season.

You straight up called him a loser because he didn't carry this hospital Sixers team missing missing their top 4 guys for a lot of the season. Very logical opinion
Agree to disagree.

My point in bringing up the shooting splits is that you provided no rationale for why he's a 'winning player.'
Again, now you bring up how he 'led' his team to the finals - on shooting splits that he has never been able to come close to at any other point in his career. So then let's set aside the shooting splits. What else makes him a 'winning player'?
Can he create off the dribble?
Is he a playmaker?
Is he one of the best perimeter defenders in the league this year?
Can he create his own shot at all?
Martin will have a couple 15-20+ point games per series? He's broken that 15 point barrier in just two games in all of his postseason appearances if you exclude the fluke shooting run. Because again, shooting splits shouldn't be taken into account right?

Martin isn't bad, but he's not good either. It reeks of cost-cutting in a season where the Mavs have just gone 'all-in' (to hear Nico tell it).

[QingJames]

2 inches makes a big difference in some cases

LaMelo has a 6'10 wingspan and Suggs has a 6'5 wingspan.
Who's the better defender?

Who’s the better penetrator ?

We're talking about defense.
And having a bigger wingspan doesn't necessarily translate to being a better defender. That's the point.

[Enso]

LaMelo has a 6'10 wingspan and Suggs has a 6'5 wingspan.
Who's the better defender?

Who’s the better penetrator ?

We're talking about defense.
And having a bigger wingspan doesn't necessarily translate to being a better defender. That's the point.

Size matters bro