Luka to Lakers. AD to Mavs.

[MrSparkle]

I don’t think Mavs will benefit from this trade long-term. Lakers will. That said, Lakers need more luck and good management to put together the next version of this roster. Did I say Luck?

Besides that, I get why Davis waived his trade kicker (not big deal in grand scheme), wanted to leave LA and the LeRetirement & Sieves Tour, and didn’t want to be stuck with the pressure of carrying the Lakers post-Lebron (with no real assets/picks left).

There’s a legit risk Kyrie and AD flame out. There’s also a chance they play their best basketball ever, in their late primes. Their injury and underperformance past, they benefitted from juggernaut #1 motivators like Lebron/Luka and crumbled when they had to carry any less, so it’ll be interesting to see if they motivate each other or fall apart.

[MissileMike]

Lakers news conference is supposed to start any minute now. Should be interesting.

[jc23]

I wonder how the Lakers will build. With lebron in mind or how to put players around Luka to contend over the next decade.

[jnrjr79]

Seems to be a lot of wild misunderstanding and presumptuousness about what execs have to actually do in the reality of their jobs. I'm not saying I agree with what the Mavs did here, cause I don't, but it does make sense and isn't inexplicable at all. People are just freaked out cause we don't usually see this. Though worth noting, the Mavs may be the first team to see that a great player may be worth more to a different team than his own, due to no supermax.

The decision to trade him may be defensible, but holding negotiations with a single team and not even bothering to try to maximize the return is not.

[League Circles]

Seems to be a lot of wild misunderstanding and presumptuousness about what execs have to actually do in the reality of their jobs. I'm not saying I agree with what the Mavs did here, cause I don't, but it does make sense and isn't inexplicable at all. People are just freaked out cause we don't usually see this. Though worth noting, the Mavs may be the first team to see that a great player may be worth more to a different team than his own, due to no supermax.

The decision to trade him may be defensible, but holding negotiations with a single team and not even bothering to try to maximize the return is not.

It's easily defensible if you think it through. The key is realizing that the process doesn't start with a decision to trade Luka. It starts with identifying something they'd actually want for him that's actually obtainable and realizing the ramifications if the process was leaked.

Dallas wanted out from Luka, and they got, literally, possibly the single best guy in the world to fit their roster in return. That's why they reasonably felt they shouldn't open up talks. They didn't want a quantity based package. They wanted an equal or better player fit for their roster.

[jnrjr79]

Seems to be a lot of wild misunderstanding and presumptuousness about what execs have to actually do in the reality of their jobs. I'm not saying I agree with what the Mavs did here, cause I don't, but it does make sense and isn't inexplicable at all. People are just freaked out cause we don't usually see this. Though worth noting, the Mavs may be the first team to see that a great player may be worth more to a different team than his own, due to no supermax.

The decision to trade him may be defensible, but holding negotiations with a single team and not even bothering to try to maximize the return is not.

It's easily defensible if you think it through. The key is realizing that the process doesn't start with a decision to trade Luka. It starts with identifying something they'd actually want for him that's actually obtainable and realizing the ramifications if the process was leaked.

Dallas wanted out from Luka, and they got, literally, possibly the single best guy in the world to fit their roster in return. That's why they reasonably felt they shouldn't open up talks. They didn't want a quantity based package. They wanted an equal or better player fit for their roster.

No, this is crazy. You open up the bidding to the market and take the best deal you can get. If it ends up being the AD deal, fine, but not opening it to the market is GM-ing malpractice.

[Andi Obst]

The decision to trade him may be defensible, but holding negotiations with a single team and not even bothering to try to maximize the return is not.

It's easily defensible if you think it through. The key is realizing that the process doesn't start with a decision to trade Luka. It starts with identifying something they'd actually want for him that's actually obtainable and realizing the ramifications if the process was leaked.

Dallas wanted out from Luka, and they got, literally, possibly the single best guy in the world to fit their roster in return. That's why they reasonably felt they shouldn't open up talks. They didn't want a quantity based package. They wanted an equal or better player fit for their roster.

No, this is crazy. You open up the bidding to the market and take the best deal you can get. If it ends up being the AD deal, fine, but not opening it to the market is GM-ing malpractice.

At the very least, this would've forced the Lakers to put 2 unprotected firsts + Dalton Knecht + whatever the hell else the Mavs would've wanted on top of that on the table. Not even getting the maximum return from the one team you talked to is laughable.

[jnrjr79]

It's easily defensible if you think it through. The key is realizing that the process doesn't start with a decision to trade Luka. It starts with identifying something they'd actually want for him that's actually obtainable and realizing the ramifications if the process was leaked.

Dallas wanted out from Luka, and they got, literally, possibly the single best guy in the world to fit their roster in return. That's why they reasonably felt they shouldn't open up talks. They didn't want a quantity based package. They wanted an equal or better player fit for their roster.

No, this is crazy. You open up the bidding to the market and take the best deal you can get. If it ends up being the AD deal, fine, but not opening it to the market is GM-ing malpractice.

At the very least, this would've forced the Lakers to put 2 unprotected firsts + Dalton Knecht + whatever the hell else the Mavs would've wanted on top of that on the table. Not even getting the maximum return from the one team you talked to is laughable.

Right. They didn't even get the best deal possible from the only team they talked to, let alone the best deal that would have been available on the market.

[Andi Obst]

A couple of days later this still makes me angry. I still can't believe nobody stopped Nico Harrison on his little power trip. This is one rare instance where I don't blame people for believing all the conspiracy theories. This is so aggressively dumb, I can't get over it. Watching Nico Harrison in that press conference proudly talking about how Pelinka scammed him over a couple of weeks is not even funny to me.

[MrSparkle]

A couple of days later this still makes me angry. I still can't believe nobody stopped Nico Harrison on his little power trip. This is one rare instance where I don't blame people for believing all the conspiracy theories. This is so aggressively dumb, I can't get over it. Watching Nico Harrison in that press conference proudly talking about how Pelinka scammed him over a couple of weeks is not even funny to me.

I can’t imagine how I’d feel about the Bulls moving a prime Jordan, or a healthy prime Rose… of course Luka has 2 knocks that MJ didn’t (conditioning and defense)… but MJ didn’t have Luka’s playmaking. But also, you have to give him a chance to grow up.

My hunch is Nico’s going to be surprised by how much harder it is to stay relevant without Luka. Yeah, the defense, salary books and regular season record might be better… but there is no way in hell a Davis team ever has a better championship chance than Luka, unless they have a #3 en route. But who- Paul George? Jimmy? Durant? Some other maxed 35yo 1 injury away from retirement?

The Thunder, Cavs and Celtics are so stacked. I don’t even see a window of beating either unless they have an injury to their #1s. And these teams still have tradeable assets, and they’re young. The one advantage you had was a generational MVP talent, and you gave him away for a #2 option. Cuban was pretty impulsive with win-now trades, and letting Brunson walk without becoming his BFF was a big mistake… but man, Nico had time to retool with Luka. The Klay trade was the wrong direction. 1 Lakers pick isn’t enough to change the Mavs’ flexibility after this swap. Disaster.

[League Circles]

The decision to trade him may be defensible, but holding negotiations with a single team and not even bothering to try to maximize the return is not.

It's easily defensible if you think it through. The key is realizing that the process doesn't start with a decision to trade Luka. It starts with identifying something they'd actually want for him that's actually obtainable and realizing the ramifications if the process was leaked.

Dallas wanted out from Luka, and they got, literally, possibly the single best guy in the world to fit their roster in return. That's why they reasonably felt they shouldn't open up talks. They didn't want a quantity based package. They wanted an equal or better player fit for their roster.

No, this is crazy. You open up the bidding to the market and take the best deal you can get. If it ends up being the AD deal, fine, but not opening it to the market is GM-ing malpractice.

And what if the best deal you can get after opening it up to the market is no longer AD (cause the Lakers backed out cause Luka made it clear he wasn't gonna extend there)?

[Senor Chang]

I will laugh my ass off when Luka, doesn't sign an extension now that he has lost his ability for the super max, goes to FA, and signs with his buddy Joker in Denver. In the end I dont see Luka learning $hit from James or wanting to be mentored. He has been a pro since 13 years old and entering his prime. James at 40 riding out the last years with his kid in LA doesn't sound great for Luka.

I would love it if this happened.


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[HomoSapien]

I will laugh my ass off when Luka, doesn't sign an extension now that he has lost his ability for the super max, goes to FA, and signs with his buddy Joker in Denver. In the end I dont see Luka learning $hit from James or wanting to be mentored. He has been a pro since 13 years old and entering his prime. James at 40 riding out the last years with his kid in LA doesn't sound great for Luka.

I would love it if this happened.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought he looked pretty depressed at the press conference. Clearly that was entirely about Dallas trading him and not about LA specifically. That said, now that he's seen how cold the NBA can be, I would bet feelings about loyalty go out the window. It wouldn't shock me if this is a shorter destination for him and for that reason, Chicago really needs to do what it can to make itself an appealing destination.

[MrSparkle]

I don’t see Luka ever leaving LAL, unless he completely declines. They just need smart follow-up moves. Pelinka’s consistently manufactured good moves out of nothing (with some of that magical Lakers clout), so I’d expect more of the same.

[jnrjr79]

It's easily defensible if you think it through. The key is realizing that the process doesn't start with a decision to trade Luka. It starts with identifying something they'd actually want for him that's actually obtainable and realizing the ramifications if the process was leaked.

Dallas wanted out from Luka, and they got, literally, possibly the single best guy in the world to fit their roster in return. That's why they reasonably felt they shouldn't open up talks. They didn't want a quantity based package. They wanted an equal or better player fit for their roster.

No, this is crazy. You open up the bidding to the market and take the best deal you can get. If it ends up being the AD deal, fine, but not opening it to the market is GM-ing malpractice.

And what if the best deal you can get after opening it up to the market is no longer AD (cause the Lakers backed out cause Luka made it clear he wasn't gonna extend there)?

1) it wouldn't matter, because the Davis trade was far from the best return achievable, and

2) your scenario is totally made up and unrealistic, so it would be very bad for front offices to think that way.

[League Circles]

No, this is crazy. You open up the bidding to the market and take the best deal you can get. If it ends up being the AD deal, fine, but not opening it to the market is GM-ing malpractice.

And what if the best deal you can get after opening it up to the market is no longer AD (cause the Lakers backed out cause Luka made it clear he wasn't gonna extend there)?

1) it wouldn't matter, because the Davis trade was far from the best return achievable, and

2) your scenario is totally made up and unrealistic, so it would be very bad for front offices to think that way.

1. Davis is pretty obviously the best piece they could get at this time unless you can think of someone else. So that being said, you're saying that a quantity package instead of the quality package is unambiguously better, which might be your belief, but it's not some sort of fact.

2. It's entirely realistic. Dallas explicitly wouldn't allow the Lakers to talk with Luka's agent, at the cost of a FRP! Why WOULDN'T Luka and his agent say that they wouldn't commit to re-sign anywhere he's dealt (which would then significantly hurt his trade value even to the Lakers plausibly)?

I really just think people are overlooking the human nature in all this. It's entirely plausible and logical that this was the order of preference for Dallas:

1. Trade Luka for a similar caliber player, ideally who fits better and won't cost the same supermax that they might get cornered into with Luka (done)
2. Keep Luka on the supermax that they don't think he's going to be worth
3. Trade him for "best available package", auction style, under the plausible situation where he and his agent are telling everyone "don't trade for me, I won't sign an extension".

[jnrjr79]

And what if the best deal you can get after opening it up to the market is no longer AD (cause the Lakers backed out cause Luka made it clear he wasn't gonna extend there)?

1) it wouldn't matter, because the Davis trade was far from the best return achievable, and

2) your scenario is totally made up and unrealistic, so it would be very bad for front offices to think that way.

1. Davis is pretty obviously the best piece they could get at this time unless you can think of someone else.

Uhh, I absolutely can think of someone else. I would be shocked if you couldn't get at least one of the following:

Giannis
Tatum
Brunson
Ant
Banchero

AD is really good - there's no denying that - but I think multiple players on his general level would have been available, and at least some with much better health histories.

So that being said, you're saying that a quantity package instead of the quality package is unambiguously better, which might be your belief, but it's not some sort of fact.

There has been plenty of reporting at this point from multiple other front offices that said better packages were available.

2. It's entirely realistic. Dallas explicitly wouldn't allow the Lakers to talk with Luka's agent, at the cost of a FRP! Why WOULDN'T Luka and his agent say that they wouldn't commit to re-sign anywhere he's dealt (which would then significantly hurt his trade value even to the Lakers plausibly)?

The Lakers just traded for him without any assurance he would extend, so your point here doesn't really make sense. The Lakers were willing to take their chances on being able to retain him, which is what they should do, given they can offer him the most money and are likely the single most appealing market in the NBA.

I really just think people are overlooking the human nature in all this. It's entirely plausible and logical that this was the order of preference for Dallas:
[/quote

The human nature part is why they messed up this trade so badly in the fist place. Nico has personal relationships with both Pelinka and AD, so he operated with blinders on throughout the entire process.

1. Trade Luka for a similar caliber player, ideally who fits better and won't cost the same supermax that they might get cornered into with Luka (done)

AD, IMO, is not properly thought of as a "similar caliber player." He's not as good as Luka is now, he's hurt all the time, and his age means you have a short window with him, most likely.

2. Keep Luka on the supermax that they don't think he's going to be worth

Yes, this was an option - and a better one than what they did.

3. Trade him for "best available package", auction style, under the plausible situation where he and his agent are telling everyone "don't trade for me, I won't sign an extension".

Luka Doncic is going to play basketball somewhere when his current deal is up, so it doesn't make sense that his agent would tell "everyone" that he wouldn't extend. And, like I noted before, the Lakers right now were perfectly willing to trade for him without any assurances he would extend. Lots of other NBA franchises would have been happy to take their chances and do what they can to convince him to stay.

[League Circles]

1) it wouldn't matter, because the Davis trade was far from the best return achievable, and

2) your scenario is totally made up and unrealistic, so it would be very bad for front offices to think that way.

1. Davis is pretty obviously the best piece they could get at this time unless you can think of someone else.

Uhh, I absolutely can think of someone else. I would be shocked if you couldn't get at least one of the following:

Giannis
Tatum
Brunson
Ant
Banchero

AD is really good - there's no denying that - but I think multiple players on his general level would have been available, and at least some with much better health histories.

So that being said, you're saying that a quantity package instead of the quality package is unambiguously better, which might be your belief, but it's not some sort of fact.

There has been plenty of reporting at this point from multiple other front offices that said better packages were available.

2. It's entirely realistic. Dallas explicitly wouldn't allow the Lakers to talk with Luka's agent, at the cost of a FRP! Why WOULDN'T Luka and his agent say that they wouldn't commit to re-sign anywhere he's dealt (which would then significantly hurt his trade value even to the Lakers plausibly)?

The Lakers just traded for him without any assurance he would extend, so your point here doesn't really make sense. The Lakers were willing to take their chances on being able to retain him, which is what they should do, given they can offer him the most money and are likely the single most appealing market in the NBA.

I really just think people are overlooking the human nature in all this. It's entirely plausible and logical that this was the order of preference for Dallas:
[/quote

The human nature part is why they messed up this trade so badly in the fist place. Nico has personal relationships with both Pelinka and AD, so he operated with blinders on throughout the entire process.

1. Trade Luka for a similar caliber player, ideally who fits better and won't cost the same supermax that they might get cornered into with Luka (done)

AD, IMO, is not properly thought of as a "similar caliber player." He's not as good as Luka is now, he's hurt all the time, and his age means you have a short window with him, most likely.

2. Keep Luka on the supermax that they don't think he's going to be worth

Yes, this was an option - and a better one than what they did.

3. Trade him for "best available package", auction style, under the plausible situation where he and his agent are telling everyone "don't trade for me, I won't sign an extension".

Luka Doncic is going to play basketball somewhere when his current deal is up, so it doesn't make sense that his agent would tell "everyone" that he wouldn't extend. And, like I noted before, the Lakers right now were perfectly willing to trade for him without any assurances he would extend. Lots of other NBA franchises would have been happy to take their chances and do what they can to convince him to stay.

I think it's unlikely that Giannis, Tatum or Ant would be available, and Davis is better than Brunson and Banchero.

Other front offices' opinions mean nothing. What matters is how Dallas would perceive the packages. And unless they start with a better player than AD, the packages available would represent more quantity but not equal quality.

Yes, Lakers were willing to trade for him in this neutral scenario. But if he caught wind of it (due to an open market situation) and explicitly stated he wouldn't re-sign in LA, it's entirely plausible and reasonable that LA may no longer offer AD. Lakers have a TERRIBLE roster at least at the moment for Luka to commit to. Maybe he won't.

The gap between AD and Luka on D is far larger than the gap in their offense, and defense is half the game, so you can absolutely say AD is on Luka's level. He's just not nearly as fun to watch. Both Luka and AD have health concerns.

Keeping Luka on the supermax I'd agree is better than the trade, but I understand why Dallas disagrees.

The entire reason Luka and his agent may have poured cold water all over trade talks is so that he could stay in Dallas and get the supermax. That's the only way he could get it.

[kodo]

Yes, Lakers were willing to trade for him in this neutral scenario. But if he caught wind of it (due to an open market situation) and explicitly stated he wouldn't re-sign in LA, it's entirely plausible and reasonable that LA may no longer offer AD. Lakers have a TERRIBLE roster at least at the moment for Luka to commit to. Maybe he won't.

That's what I gathered from all the reports a swell, Nico was fixated on AD. AD was his first choice in a Luka return, LA obliged, so he didn't expand his search. He did lose out on draft picks, but he's clearly one of those GMs that's focused on wins right now and the near future not what a 14 year old is going to be in 8 years. I don't agree with him, but certainly there are GMs that don't value future draft picks, we have one of them.

I do think AD is underrated for impact on both ends these days. Nico isn't getting Giannis, Joker, SGA.

[WesPeace]

I think Doncic and Jokic will play together one day, the latest in 2027-28 season, if not 2026-2027, maybe its in LA, maybe Denver..