Random Thoughts XX (that's 20)

[contract]

Just in case I was being too subtle, the again in Make America Great Again was a time when mediocre white men controlled all the wealth and all the power. White women were condemned to being wives for those mediocre white men and mothers to their children, and everyone else was out of sight, out of mind, and out of luck.

If you are a minority and were fortunate enough to secure a high level job in any field, like aviation maintenance for example, you can thank diversity and inclusion laws.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Just in case I was being too subtle, the again in Make America Great Again was a time when mediocre white men controlled all the wealth and all the power. White women were condemned to being wives for those mediocre white men and mothers to their children, and everyone else was out of sight, out of mind, and out of luck.

If you are a minority and were fortunate enough to secure a high level job in any field, like aviation maintenance for example, you can thank diversity and inclusion laws.

What you’re referring to is nepotism, it’s not systematically designed to benefit whites, any group in a position of power will do it (you see it plenty in non white majority countries as well), it still exists, and is very hard to get rid of completely because people will always have a bias towards family.

Countering nepotism with another non meritocratic system does not get you closer to meritocracy, it just helps push people without connections in whatever racial category you perceive as privileged further down the ladder, while those who practice nepotism will work around it and continue to do so.

[spectrec130]

Just in case I was being too subtle, the again in Make America Great Again was a time when mediocre white men controlled all the wealth and all the power. White women were condemned to being wives for those mediocre white men and mothers to their children, and everyone else was out of sight, out of mind, and out of luck.

If you are a minority and were fortunate enough to secure a high level job in any field, like aviation maintenance for example, you can thank diversity and inclusion laws.

You've made your point clear enough. Just do not share your take. As for your statement of "SECURING A HIGH LEVEL JOB" can confidently say, outside of the remote nepotism over the years, for my fellow peers (White and Minority) there is no dolling out these positions as party favors. At this level of accountability, you can either perform the job or not and it will become quite evident quickly those whom cannot. Does help that NTSB reports (National Traffic Safety Board) has a plethora examples of what can go wrong and the dire consequences as a result and no Government Agency or Civilian Contractor wants anything to do with that smoke. Competency and Safety above all else.

As to your inference of the retro 1950's America and white phobia, can say that the reason so many of us voted (Both Minority and Whites) is the absolute exhaustion in dealing with this Chicken Little World is Ending Mind Set along with the weaponizing of ISTS/ISMS against those that just do not agree. Genuinely just tired and have not an ounce of effs to give. Just putting out there!

Good luck to you!

[contract]

Just in case I was being too subtle, the again in Make America Great Again was a time when mediocre white men controlled all the wealth and all the power. White women were condemned to being wives for those mediocre white men and mothers to their children, and everyone else was out of sight, out of mind, and out of luck.

If you are a minority and were fortunate enough to secure a high level job in any field, like aviation maintenance for example, you can thank diversity and inclusion laws.

What you’re referring to is nepotism, it’s not systematically designed to benefit whites, any group in a position of power will do it (you see it plenty in non white majority countries as well), it still exists, and is very hard to get rid of completely because people will always have a bias towards family.

Countering nepotism with another non meritocratic system does not get you closer to meritocracy, it just helps push people without connections in whatever racial category you perceive as privileged further down the ladder, while those who practice nepotism will work around it and continue to do so.

No, what I'm referring to is racism and sexism. Both were 100% systematic. Both were 100% designed to keep absolute power in the hands of white men. Neither ever went away. Both are now ascendant again thanks in part to their victims being convinced that they in fact are the victimizers and white men are the real victims.

Racism and sexism cannot be countered without diversity and inclusion laws, because the vast majority of wealth and power are still in the hands of white men, and left to their own devices they will continue to do what they've been doing for hundreds of years in this country. Asking pretty please didn't stop white men from keeping slaves. In fact they were so committed to it that they went to war to defend it. Asking pretty please didn't stop segregation or the Klan or lynchings or people being stripped of their constitutional rights or people having the police weaponized against them or redlining or anything ever.

Asking pretty please is not going to stop white men from stripping women of their rights. In fact women have been strip of autonomy over their own bodies and are facing having their medical care and their periods monitored by the government and having slave catchers track them down and imprison them if they try to escape their state to try to get medical care in another state or country.

Mind you this is largely the same crowd that threw a tantrum over vaccine mandates and masks.

The same crowd is also trying to force LGBTQ people back into the shadows and into closets.

[contract]

Just in case I was being too subtle, the again in Make America Great Again was a time when mediocre white men controlled all the wealth and all the power. White women were condemned to being wives for those mediocre white men and mothers to their children, and everyone else was out of sight, out of mind, and out of luck.

If you are a minority and were fortunate enough to secure a high level job in any field, like aviation maintenance for example, you can thank diversity and inclusion laws.

You've made your point clear enough. Just do not share your take. As for your statement of "SECURING A HIGH LEVEL JOB" can confidently say, outside of the remote nepotism over the years, for my fellow peers (White and Minority) there is no dolling out these positions as party favors. At this level of accountability, you can either perform the job or not and it will become quite evident quickly those whom cannot. Does help that NTSB reports (National Traffic Safety Board) has a plethora examples of what can go wrong and the dire consequences as a result and no Government Agency or Civilian Contractor wants anything to do with that smoke. Competency and Safety above all else.

As to your inference of the retro 1950's America and white phobia, can say that the reason so many of us voted (Both Minority and Whites) is the absolute exhaustion in dealing with this Chicken Little World is Ending Mind Set along with the weaponizing of ISTS/ISMS against those that just do not agree. Genuinely just tired and have not an ounce of effs to give. Just putting out there!

Good luck to you!

You're exhausted ... but they are not and never will be.

It takes an amazing amount of self-deception to look at how wealth and power are still divided in 2025 and come to the conclusion that it's somehow something other than racism and sexism keeping things the way they are.

https://www.forbes.com/real-time-billionaire

Filter the list by "United States" and tell me what percentage of them are white men as opposed to minorities. How many women are on the list? How many of those women didn't gain that wealth by inheritance or divorce?

There's your meritocracy.

I hope that wasn't too exhausting.

[Bishop45]

I won't get into this, not because I think we shouldn't discuss politics, but cause it's futile.

I'm sure there are multiple complex and real life reasons that someone would support a bigot, sexist, scam artist or racist. There were folks who had real and complex reasons to support apartheid, Jim Crow, slavery, poll taxes and etc., I just wasn't raised to respect any of it.

My moral line is when the human rights of other people are threatened or violated, but I understand that line can be negotiable for some. I don't agree with it, but if nothing else it reminds me how important it is to take care of the people around me who can't always fend for themselves

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Just in case I was being too subtle, the again in Make America Great Again was a time when mediocre white men controlled all the wealth and all the power. White women were condemned to being wives for those mediocre white men and mothers to their children, and everyone else was out of sight, out of mind, and out of luck.

If you are a minority and were fortunate enough to secure a high level job in any field, like aviation maintenance for example, you can thank diversity and inclusion laws.

What you’re referring to is nepotism, it’s not systematically designed to benefit whites, any group in a position of power will do it (you see it plenty in non white majority countries as well), it still exists, and is very hard to get rid of completely because people will always have a bias towards family.

Countering nepotism with another non meritocratic system does not get you closer to meritocracy, it just helps push people without connections in whatever racial category you perceive as privileged further down the ladder, while those who practice nepotism will work around it and continue to do so.

No, what I'm referring to is racism and sexism. Both were 100% systematic. Both were 100% designed to keep absolute power in the hands of white men. Neither ever went away. Both are now ascendant again thanks in part to their victims being convinced that they in fact are the victimizers and white men are the real victims.

Racism and sexism cannot be countered without diversity and inclusion laws, because the vast majority of wealth and power are still in the hands of white men, and left to their own devices they will continue to do what they've been doing for hundreds of years in this country. Asking pretty please didn't stop white men from keeping slaves. In fact they were so committed to it that they went to war to defend it. Asking pretty please didn't stop segregation or the Klan or lynchings or people being stripped of their constitutional rights or people having the police weaponized against them or redlining or anything ever.

Asking pretty please is not going to stop white men from stripping women of their rights. In fact women have been strip over autonomy over their own bodies and are facing having their medical care and their periods monitored by the government and having slave catchers track them down and imprison them if they try to escape their state to try to get medical care in another state or country.

Mind you this is largely the same crowd that through a tantrum over vaccine mandates and masks.

The same crowd is also trying to force LGBTQ people back into the shadows and into closets.

Your focus is on white instead of where it should be, which is class. If you want to create unity, you have to find issues people can unite over. The fact is even if you want to point to whites being over represented in the wealthy elite (which btw, Indians and East Asians are as well), this means nothing to the overwhelming majority of white people who see no benefit from this, and instead are just like the rest of us watching their wages inflate away, and their ability to afford a home and middle class lifestyle disappear.

The fact is, most white people are still middle or lower class. So if you lead with race, the only whites you're going to get in that coalition is the upper middle class and elites, which is a group that continues to shrink every year as ladders continue to get pulled up. If you instead focus on class, you not only can unite far more people, but you also still get to help minorities more than whites, if they actually are over represented per capita in the lower classes (which again as pointed out, some minorities actually out perform whites, but that just goes to show the issue is a lot more complicated than just white bad minority good).

None of this is to say racism is a solved issue, but rather, in a hierarchy of issues, in our current society I'd put it far below class/wealth inequality.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I don't think its a coincidence that as all this started to come to a head with the 2008 financial crisis and Occupy Wall Street, the media did a hard pivot into race/sex issues. This stuff is used to divide people, the fact is a white guy and a black guy who each make 40k a year and can't support their families have a lot more in common in terms of real issues to address, than a poor and rich white guy or a poor and rich black guy.

[SerialChiller]

Some people in here really need to lay off the CNN good lord!

[spectrec130]

Just in case I was being too subtle, the again in Make America Great Again was a time when mediocre white men controlled all the wealth and all the power. White women were condemned to being wives for those mediocre white men and mothers to their children, and everyone else was out of sight, out of mind, and out of luck.

If you are a minority and were fortunate enough to secure a high level job in any field, like aviation maintenance for example, you can thank diversity and inclusion laws.

You've made your point clear enough. Just do not share your take. As for your statement of "SECURING A HIGH LEVEL JOB" can confidently say, outside of the remote nepotism over the years, for my fellow peers (White and Minority) there is no dolling out these positions as party favors. At this level of accountability, you can either perform the job or not and it will become quite evident quickly those whom cannot. Does help that NTSB reports (National Traffic Safety Board) has a plethora examples of what can go wrong and the dire consequences as a result and no Government Agency or Civilian Contractor wants anything to do with that smoke. Competency and Safety above all else.

As to your inference of the retro 1950's America and white phobia, can say that the reason so many of us voted (Both Minority and Whites) is the absolute exhaustion in dealing with this Chicken Little World is Ending Mind Set along with the weaponizing of ISTS/ISMS against those that just do not agree. Genuinely just tired and have not an ounce of effs to give. Just putting out there!

Good luck to you!

You're exhausted ... but they are not and never will be.

It takes an amazing amount of self-deception to look at how wealth and power are still divided in 2025 and come to the conclusion that it's somehow something other than racism and sexism keeping things the way they are.

https://www.forbes.com/real-time-billionaire

Filter the list by "United States" and tell me what percentage of them are white men as opposed to minorities. How many women are on the list? How many of those women didn't gain that wealth by inheritance or divorce?

There's your meritocracy.

I hope that wasn't too exhausting.

There is nothing in your posts that offers neither Contract. Just the same ole white people bad world is ending diatribe! Meanwhile the nation has moved on and into a different direction and no amount of scaremongering will change it. Why has this happened? Well to know that it would require understanding and for that to occur some serious self reflection and accountability will have to take place. Those are the things you have not been willing to do!

edited for spelling

[contract]

What you’re referring to is nepotism, it’s not systematically designed to benefit whites, any group in a position of power will do it (you see it plenty in non white majority countries as well), it still exists, and is very hard to get rid of completely because people will always have a bias towards family.

Countering nepotism with another non meritocratic system does not get you closer to meritocracy, it just helps push people without connections in whatever racial category you perceive as privileged further down the ladder, while those who practice nepotism will work around it and continue to do so.

No, what I'm referring to is racism and sexism. Both were 100% systematic. Both were 100% designed to keep absolute power in the hands of white men. Neither ever went away. Both are now ascendant again thanks in part to their victims being convinced that they in fact are the victimizers and white men are the real victims.

Racism and sexism cannot be countered without diversity and inclusion laws, because the vast majority of wealth and power are still in the hands of white men, and left to their own devices they will continue to do what they've been doing for hundreds of years in this country. Asking pretty please didn't stop white men from keeping slaves. In fact they were so committed to it that they went to war to defend it. Asking pretty please didn't stop segregation or the Klan or lynchings or people being stripped of their constitutional rights or people having the police weaponized against them or redlining or anything ever.

Asking pretty please is not going to stop white men from stripping women of their rights. In fact women have been strip over autonomy over their own bodies and are facing having their medical care and their periods monitored by the government and having slave catchers track them down and imprison them if they try to escape their state to try to get medical care in another state or country.

Mind you this is largely the same crowd that through a tantrum over vaccine mandates and masks.

The same crowd is also trying to force LGBTQ people back into the shadows and into closets.

Your focus is on white instead of where it should be, which is class. If you want to create unity, you have to find issues people can unite over. The fact is even if you want to point to whites being over represented in the wealthy elite (which btw, Indians and East Asians are as well), this means nothing to the overwhelming majority of white people who see no benefit from this, and instead are just like the rest of us watching their wages inflate away, and their ability to afford a home and middle class lifestyle disappear.

The fact is, most white people are still middle or lower class. So if you lead with race, the only whites you're going to get in that coalition is the upper middle class and elites, which is a group that continues to shrink every year as ladders continue to get pulled up. If you instead focus on class, you not only can unite far more people, but you also still get to help minorities more than whites, if they actually are over represented per capita in the lower classes (which again as pointed out, some minorities actually out perform whites, but that just goes to show the issue is a lot more complicated than just white bad minority good).

None of this is to say racism is a solved issue, but rather, in a hierarchy of issues, in our current society I'd put it far below class/wealth inequality.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I don't think its a coincidence that as all this started to come to a head with the 2008 financial crisis and Occupy Wall Street, the media did a hard pivot into race/sex issues. This stuff is used to divide people, the fact is a white guy and a black guy who each make 40k a year and can't support their families have a lot more in common in terms of real issues to address, than a poor and rich white guy or a poor and rich black guy.

I'll take a moment here to remind everyone that Barack Obama, then President of the United States, supposedly the most powerful man in the United States and the world, was forced to produce his papers on demand to prove that he belonged where he was ... just like if he was a random black man walking through a white neighborhood.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I'll take a moment here to remind everyone that Barack Obama, then President of the United States, supposedly the most powerful man in the United States and the world, was forced to produce his papers on demand to prove that he belonged where he was ... just like if he was a random black man walking through a white neighborhood.

And the current president survived two assassination attempts, to say nothing of the entire justice department going after him. Are we supposed to draw racial inferences on that relating to the common man? Or is it fair to say these are political issues that aren’t really comparable to what the common man is worried about?

I’ll take my own advice and give you the last word on this. All I’ll say for myself personally, I don’t assume people with opposing politics or beliefs are morally bankrupt, they just view the world through a different lens and disagree on how to achieve the best outcomes. But once you do start assuming the worst of the people you disagree with, it becomes very easy to ignore anything they have to say.

[Shewasfly]

What you’re referring to is nepotism, it’s not systematically designed to benefit whites, any group in a position of power will do it (you see it plenty in non white majority countries as well), it still exists, and is very hard to get rid of completely because people will always have a bias towards family.

Countering nepotism with another non meritocratic system does not get you closer to meritocracy, it just helps push people without connections in whatever racial category you perceive as privileged further down the ladder, while those who practice nepotism will work around it and continue to do so.

No, what I'm referring to is racism and sexism. Both were 100% systematic. Both were 100% designed to keep absolute power in the hands of white men. Neither ever went away. Both are now ascendant again thanks in part to their victims being convinced that they in fact are the victimizers and white men are the real victims.

Racism and sexism cannot be countered without diversity and inclusion laws, because the vast majority of wealth and power are still in the hands of white men, and left to their own devices they will continue to do what they've been doing for hundreds of years in this country. Asking pretty please didn't stop white men from keeping slaves. In fact they were so committed to it that they went to war to defend it. Asking pretty please didn't stop segregation or the Klan or lynchings or people being stripped of their constitutional rights or people having the police weaponized against them or redlining or anything ever.

Asking pretty please is not going to stop white men from stripping women of their rights. In fact women have been strip over autonomy over their own bodies and are facing having their medical care and their periods monitored by the government and having slave catchers track them down and imprison them if they try to escape their state to try to get medical care in another state or country.

Mind you this is largely the same crowd that through a tantrum over vaccine mandates and masks.

The same crowd is also trying to force LGBTQ people back into the shadows and into closets.

Your focus is on white instead of where it should be, which is class. If you want to create unity, you have to find issues people can unite over. The fact is even if you want to point to whites being over represented in the wealthy elite (which btw, Indians and East Asians are as well), this means nothing to the overwhelming majority of white people who see no benefit from this, and instead are just like the rest of us watching their wages inflate away, and their ability to afford a home and middle class lifestyle disappear.

The fact is, most white people are still middle or lower class. So if you lead with race, the only whites you're going to get in that coalition is the upper middle class and elites, which is a group that continues to shrink every year as ladders continue to get pulled up. If you instead focus on class, you not only can unite far more people, but you also still get to help minorities more than whites, if they actually are over represented per capita in the lower classes (which again as pointed out, some minorities actually out perform whites, but that just goes to show the issue is a lot more complicated than just white bad minority good).

None of this is to say racism is a solved issue, but rather, in a hierarchy of issues, in our current society I'd put it far below class/wealth inequality.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I don't think its a coincidence that as all this started to come to a head with the 2008 financial crisis and Occupy Wall Street, the media did a hard pivot into race/sex issues. This stuff is used to divide people, the fact is a white guy and a black guy who each make 40k a year and can't support their families have a lot more in common in terms of real issues to address, than a poor and rich white guy or a poor and rich black guy.

This makes zero sense and is actually pointing to the opposite of what you're trying to claim. If people voted based on class, Republicans would never win. I actually respect people who vote based on economics. I have many very close family members who used to vote Republican for the tax breaks. They now find that party to be so morally reprehensible they can't even do that. But the dirt poor inbreds of Appalachia and the hillbillies of Kentucky and all those people in other shithole, flyover states overwhelmingly vote Republican every cycle. How can that be? If it's all about class?

They also claim to want small government but overwhelming get the most federal welfare, which is disproportionately funded by the "coastal elite" states they hate the most. How?

Time to use critical thinking. After a point, you can't gaslight people out of believing what is right in front of them. There's something else driving them to vote the way they do election after election, and its because they DON'T care about class, not the other side. They simply care about the groups of people they don't like being punished and restricted above all else, and we have seen in this last election they don't even mind giving up democracy to achieve that end. Bringing up Elon Musk again, right now he is in complete control of the US Treasury. A non-elected official with zero credentials in the area lol. Talk about unqualified hires. Gas prices and daily items are about to increase in price by double, triple, quadruple amounts because of the tariffs and trade wars being waged. And the people who voted for the orange fat man are ok with it all because even though that's happening, at least those darn DEIs and women are "triggered" and "getting what's coming to them".

[Tim_Hardawayy]

No, what I'm referring to is racism and sexism. Both were 100% systematic. Both were 100% designed to keep absolute power in the hands of white men. Neither ever went away. Both are now ascendant again thanks in part to their victims being convinced that they in fact are the victimizers and white men are the real victims.

Racism and sexism cannot be countered without diversity and inclusion laws, because the vast majority of wealth and power are still in the hands of white men, and left to their own devices they will continue to do what they've been doing for hundreds of years in this country. Asking pretty please didn't stop white men from keeping slaves. In fact they were so committed to it that they went to war to defend it. Asking pretty please didn't stop segregation or the Klan or lynchings or people being stripped of their constitutional rights or people having the police weaponized against them or redlining or anything ever.

Asking pretty please is not going to stop white men from stripping women of their rights. In fact women have been strip over autonomy over their own bodies and are facing having their medical care and their periods monitored by the government and having slave catchers track them down and imprison them if they try to escape their state to try to get medical care in another state or country.

Mind you this is largely the same crowd that through a tantrum over vaccine mandates and masks.

The same crowd is also trying to force LGBTQ people back into the shadows and into closets.

Your focus is on white instead of where it should be, which is class. If you want to create unity, you have to find issues people can unite over. The fact is even if you want to point to whites being over represented in the wealthy elite (which btw, Indians and East Asians are as well), this means nothing to the overwhelming majority of white people who see no benefit from this, and instead are just like the rest of us watching their wages inflate away, and their ability to afford a home and middle class lifestyle disappear.

The fact is, most white people are still middle or lower class. So if you lead with race, the only whites you're going to get in that coalition is the upper middle class and elites, which is a group that continues to shrink every year as ladders continue to get pulled up. If you instead focus on class, you not only can unite far more people, but you also still get to help minorities more than whites, if they actually are over represented per capita in the lower classes (which again as pointed out, some minorities actually out perform whites, but that just goes to show the issue is a lot more complicated than just white bad minority good).

None of this is to say racism is a solved issue, but rather, in a hierarchy of issues, in our current society I'd put it far below class/wealth inequality.

EDIT: Just wanted to add, I don't think its a coincidence that as all this started to come to a head with the 2008 financial crisis and Occupy Wall Street, the media did a hard pivot into race/sex issues. This stuff is used to divide people, the fact is a white guy and a black guy who each make 40k a year and can't support their families have a lot more in common in terms of real issues to address, than a poor and rich white guy or a poor and rich black guy.

This makes zero sense and is actually pointing to the opposite of what you're trying to claim. If people voted based on class, Republicans would never win. I actually respect people who vote based on economics. I have many very close family members who used to vote Republican for the tax breaks. They now find that party to be so morally reprehensible they can't even do that. But the dirt poor inbreds of Appalachia and the hillbillies of Kentucky and all those people in other shithole, flyover states overwhelmingly vote Republican every cycle. How can that be? If it's all about class?

They also claim to want small government but overwhelming get the most federal welfare, which is disproportionately funded by the "coastal elite" states they hate the most. How?

Time to use critical thinking. After a point, you can't gaslight people out of believing what is right in front of them. There's something else driving them to vote the way they do election after election, and its because they DON'T care about class, not the other side. They simply care about the groups of people they don't like being punished and restricted above all else, and we have seen in this last election they don't even mind giving up democracy to achieve that end. Bringing up Elon Musk again, right now he is in complete control of the US Treasury. A non-elected official with zero credentials in the area lol. Talk about unqualified hires. Gas prices and daily items are about to increase in price by double, triple, quadruple amounts because of the tariffs and trade wars being waged. And the people who voted for the orange fat man are ok with it all because even though that's happening, at least those darn DEIs and women are "triggered" and "getting what's coming to them".

I promised to give contract the last word and I'll do the same for you, just responding to let you know I'm not ignoring your post. That said, you're kind of missing the entire point I just made. You're making assumptions that everything you vote for politically is logical and for others it isn't, and that's not being charitable at all. I could nitpick point by point why a lot of what you're saying is at best debatable and at worst flat out wrong, but that's not the point of this at all. Even if I granted that you might be right on all of that, you're still ignoring what people are saying and attributing the worst characteristics to them.

All I'm saying is, try to see things from other people's perspective and understand them. If you actually believe there's a massive swath of the population (a majority if you're basing this on the election) that are morally beneath you, that don't care about anything except how to actively hurt you, then I would agree on that conclusion you should write them off as people, but its going to get very lonely with that many enemies. I understand why you would feel the way you do about the issues you support, and even if I disagree with many of them, I get the thought process that leads you to those conclusions. I'd never judge you morally for it, or assume you have mental issues, you just disagree on the best ways to improve society. I'm also not going to hold it over your head that some solutions have drawbacks (all do really when it comes to politics), I accept that your preferences acknowledge the drawbacks and feel the benefits outweigh the costs, that's what you have to do for the people you disagree with politically if you're ever going to draw common ground.

Last point on all of this, collective guilt is never going to work on an entire society. At some point you need to offer more, a positive vision for everyone, not just the groups you deem most deserving. You can't convince people who are struggling to feel guilty for things they played no part in, that aren't actively a part of law anymore. This only works on people rich enough to stop worrying about day to day issues.

[Shewasfly]

This makes zero sense and is actually pointing to the opposite of what you're trying to claim. If people voted based on class, Republicans would never win. I actually respect people who vote based on economics. I have many very close family members who used to vote Republican for the tax breaks. They now find that party to be so morally reprehensible they can't even do that. But the dirt poor inbreds of Appalachia and the hillbillies of Kentucky and all those people in other shithole, flyover states overwhelmingly vote Republican every cycle. How can that be? If it's all about class?

They also claim to want small government but overwhelming get the most federal welfare, which is disproportionately funded by the "coastal elite" states they hate the most. How?

Time to use critical thinking. After a point, you can't gaslight people out of believing what is right in front of them. There's something else driving them to vote the way they do election after election, and its because they DON'T care about class, not the other side. They simply care about the groups of people they don't like being punished and restricted above all else, and we have seen in this last election they don't even mind giving up democracy to achieve that end. Bringing up Elon Musk again, right now he is in complete control of the US Treasury. A non-elected official with zero credentials in the area lol. Talk about unqualified hires. Gas prices and daily items are about to increase in price by double, triple, quadruple amounts because of the tariffs and trade wars being waged. And the people who voted for the orange fat man are ok with it all because even though that's happening, at least those darn DEIs and women are "triggered" and "getting what's coming to them".

I promised to give contract the last word and I'll do the same for you, just responding to let you know I'm not ignoring your post. That said, you're kind of missing the entire point I just made. You're making assumptions that everything you vote for politically is logical and for others it isn't, and that's not being charitable at all. I could nitpick point by point why a lot of what you're saying is at best debatable and at worst flat out wrong, but that's not the point of this at all. Even if I granted that you might be right on all of that, you're still ignoring what people are saying and attributing the worst characteristics to them.

All I'm saying is, try to see things from other people's perspective and understand them. If you actually believe there's a massive swath of the population (a majority if you're basing this on the election) that are morally beneath you, that don't care about anything except how to actively hurt you, then I would agree on that conclusion you should write them off as people, but its going to get very lonely with that many enemies. I understand why you would feel the way you do about the issues you support, and even if I disagree with many of them, I get the thought process that leads you to those conclusions. I'd never judge you morally for it, or assume you have mental issues, you just disagree on the best ways to improve society. I'm also not going to hold it over your head that some solutions have drawbacks (all do really when it comes to politics), I accept that your preferences acknowledge the drawbacks and feel the benefits outweigh the costs, that's what you have to do for the people you disagree with politically if you're ever going to draw common ground.

Last point on all of this, collective guilt is never going to work on an entire society. At some point you need to offer more, a positive vision for everyone, not just the groups you deem most deserving. You can't convince people who are struggling to feel guilty for things they played no part in, that aren't actively a part of law anymore. This only works on people rich enough to stop worrying about day to day issues.

I'm not seeing where I'm ignoring what anybody is saying or not seeing it from their perspective. I'm simply drawing conclusions from what they've said. They said it's about the economy, wanting smaller government, being America first, etc. The tariffs will raise prices, the federal government literally supports these flyover states, and the person in control is a billionaire illegal immigrant. That doesn't even get into the DEI talk, when the ppl being appointed have zero qualifications and yet the people who voted for the administration are okay with it. I only see two conclusions here: they are not being truthful about their actual motivation or they are too dumb to connect the dots that what they want is actually not what they are voting for.

I feel like I am seeing it from the other perspective. But you tell me. If it's not a dislike of the other groups: what is it, considering the facts that are contradictory to what they say they voted for that I just pointed out? Bernie Sanders gave the most populist, positive vision for all, literally ran on not making it about identity politics but about class and he is hated by the "people who are struggling to feel guilty for things they played no part in". Better known as the non-DEIs.

Also let me just say...I'm not sure why the go-to word is "guilt". I think that speaks to something in itself, because that word keeps getting used and yet I've yet to see anybody say it on this side of the debate. No offense, but I can assure you that no one ultimately cares about your feelings about other groups of people. Your "guilty feelings" or even validation of other groups is not the point. The problem is simply when those widdle feelings infringe on their freedoms. You can hate black people all you want. Just stop redlining and other discriminatory practices that limit their financial growth and political voice (you know the practices that "don't actively exist in law anymore" but still somehow happen exactly as they did when they were "actively existing"). You can dislike women having a say so about their own bodies, just marry a woman who will let you own her womb and leave other women to make their own choices. Things like that.

[contract]

Good news everyone ... we're going to take over and own Gaza!

Watch on YouTube

[Bishop45]

Random, but anyone watching Freestyle Chess tournament?

Need some more respect put on chess as a sport-- don't want to find some random forum to add just to comment on it

[oreon]

Bruh Kanye man. I think we can all agree now, he should be cancelled for good

[HeatFanLifer]

Bruh Kanye man. I think we can all agree now, he should be cancelled for good

Wouldnt be surprised if he is doing this for album promotion and says he’s not a nazi next week. Then he will troll nazis about taking money from them, then the week after that he will say just kidding I’m a nazi and trolls about taking money from non-nazis.

Dude just wants attention and money. Let him cook. He’s doing far more to destroy the woke right from the inside than anyone from the outside could.

[Tony15]

Worst case SB LIX scenario.....Chiefs win, then Kelce proposes in the middle of the field.

[Bishop45]

I don’t respect this league