Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[shrink]

Wolves - Randle for Pj and other piece.

I heard a podcast today where someone asked why PJ and Gafford were so much better after they were traded to DAL. A GM said it was because they were hungry, after spending so much time playing for nothing.

He contrasted it with Kyle Kuzma, who was on the Lakers when they won a ring, and now seems not to care about winning.

[shrink]

Thoughts on this trade construction:
Julius Randle for Jakob Poeltl and Kelly Olynyk

Supposedly the Raptors don’t want to trade Poeltl, when they really should.

I wouldn’t be in favor of this trade, because we would have even less playmaking. But hey, it wouldn’t be a trade deadline without Olynyk on the move, so maybe..?

[shrink]

I am kind of disappointed in Miller and Minott. It is true that both TJ and Clark have much more experience than Miller and Minott, but I expected more from both forwards. But I hope TC can both re-sign Reid AND sign quality FA. If in addition DET give us FRP and TC finds a rotational player it will an excellent off-season. Unfortunately, I don't see NAW coming back and I believe that Randle will gone as well for financial reasons.

Blaming Miller and Minott for Finch not playing them is an interesting choice. I blame Finch’s stubbornness and playing favorites personally. Any minute that Garza plays over Miller is a wasted minute, unless Garza is in the long term plans and Miller is not. That approach also devalues Miller in trade (how other teams read this is Miller is worse than Garza.) Minott could easily have played more minutes and give the starters more rest. The starters over use is probably why the defense looks so bad end of game.

I blame Minott for not being better so Finch COULD give them more minutes. If Minott didn’t continually make mistakes and blow the game plan, he would have gotten more minutes. Finch tried to use him, and Minott blew his opportunity. It’s no wonder that Jaylin Clark is in the line up over Minott - he follows the game plan and limits mistakes. Dane talked about it in today’s podcast.

[Klomp]

I wouldn’t be in favor of this trade, because we would have even less playmaking. But hey, it wouldn’t be a trade deadline without Olynyk on the move, so maybe..?

That's actually kind of why I targeted Olynyk here. He's a better passer than you'd think.

Watch on YouTube

[Klomp]

I am kind of disappointed in Miller and Minott. It is true that both TJ and Clark have much more experience than Miller and Minott, but I expected more from both forwards. But I hope TC can both re-sign Reid AND sign quality FA. If in addition DET give us FRP and TC finds a rotational player it will an excellent off-season. Unfortunately, I don't see NAW coming back and I believe that Randle will gone as well for financial reasons.

Blaming Miller and Minott for Finch not playing them is an interesting choice. I blame Finch’s stubbornness and playing favorites personally. Any minute that Garza plays over Miller is a wasted minute, unless Garza is in the long term plans and Miller is not. That approach also devalues Miller in trade (how other teams read this is Miller is worse than Garza.) Minott could easily have played more minutes and give the starters more rest. The starters over use is probably why the defense looks so bad end of game.

I blame Minott for not being better so Finch COULD give them more minutes. If Minott didn’t continually make mistakes and blow the game plan, he would have gotten more minutes. Finch tried to use him, and Minott blew his opportunity. It’s no wonder that Jaylin Clark is in the line up over Minott - he follows the game plan and limits mistakes. Dane talked about it in today’s podcast.

Bingo.

[shrink]

I’m on the road, and I don’t have time to find the post, but I wanted to agree with you winforlose on your take that we didn’t do enough in free agency. And I think that’s especially true for Dozier.

But if MIN could only offer vet min deals, what vet mins are going to choose MIN over other offers (often ones with more money attached)? Free agency came before the KAT trade, and it torpedoed our plan for minutes distribution. For example, if we offered a vet min deal to a free agent center, who’s going to choose MIN with Gobert starting and KAT soaking up the rest of he center minutes, so Naz gets as much playing time as possible? And after the draft, both Connelly and Finch talked about how they were going to give Dillingham and Shannon minutes right from the start. If you’re a free agent guard, you aren’t picking MIN. Free agents are always going to choose teams where they get a chance to play.

So Connelly needed to find free agents that would be good in the locker room, even when they would ride the bench almost all the time. Garza and Ingles fit that bill - they contribute in the locker room.

Connelly made all those decisions before NYK was willing to include DiVincenzo in the KAT trade. Accepting that deal forced us to play DiVincenzo and Randle a lot to get them to gel with their teammates before the playoffs. The trade wrecked the plan to give Dillingham and Shannon minutes, and it created roster holes that weren’t there when we signed free agents. If this trade goes down earlier, it would have made us a much more attractive free agent destination.

[shrink]

Do you think that Jaylin Clark’s brief success, and the Wolves mediocrity, increase the chances that they will trade NAW?


From a GM standpoint, I could see it. NAW has been very good this season (if not lately), and he’d help a lot of teams. With his contract expiring, it’s quite possible we can’t bring him back, and we could lose him for nothing.

On the other hand, having NAW on our roster makes is a better team. Besides Ant, our three perimeter defenders each do it differently. Jaden use length, NAW uses his ability to slither around screens, and Clark likes to get into his man like Dort. Keeping NAW gives Finch three different styles of defenders to fit whoever we are trying to stop.

[winforlose]

I’m on the road, and I don’t have time to find the post, but I wanted to agree with you winforlose on your take that we didn’t do enough in free agency. And I think that’s especially true for Dozier.

But if MIN could only offer vet min deals, what vet mins are going to choose MIN over other offers (often ones with more money attached)? Free agency came before the KAT trade, and it torpedoed our plan for minutes distribution. For example, if we offered a vet min deal to a free agent center, who’s going to choose MIN with Gobert starting and KAT soaking up the rest of he center minutes, so Naz gets as much playing time as possible? And after the draft, both Connelly and Finch talked about how they were going to give Dillingham and Shannon minutes right from the start. If you’re a free agent guard, you aren’t picking MIN. Free agents are always going to choose teams where they get a chance to play.

So Connelly needed to find free agents that would be good in the locker room, even when they would ride the bench almost all the time. Garza and Ingles fit that bill - they contribute in the locker room.

Connelly made all those decisions before NYK was willing to include DiVincenzo in the KAT trade. Accepting that deal forced us to play DiVincenzo and Randle a lot to get them to gel with their teammates before the playoffs. The trade wrecked the plan to give Dillingham and Shannon minutes, and it created roster holes that weren’t there when we signed free agents. If this trade goes down earlier, it would have made us a much more attractive free agent destination.

The Wolves knew Dilly wasn’t ready based on Summer League. They could have paid JMAC slightly more than the minimum to keep him and promised him they would find him minutes. The Kings had just drafted Carter, had Fox and Monk ahead of him, and JMAC would have been huge for us. We should have matched GSW’s offer to Kyle, and asked him to sign with us with the intention of being traded. He would have kept his bird rights, and he could have waived the no trade if the contract was for 2 years. Obviously he was fine with the GSW amount, and we would have had the perfect trade vehicle for fixing our roster problems. Not to mention, that Kyle could have played backup 5 after the KAT trade. Never play him with Rudy and you solve the 2 non shooter problems. The last spot instead of going to Jinlges is left open, so we have KBD post trade. Tell me honestly you wouldn’t rather have JMAC, Kyle, and KBD instead of Garza, Ingles, and a bought out PJ and a waived KBD. This **** was mismanaged from the word go.

[winforlose]

I am kind of disappointed in Miller and Minott. It is true that both TJ and Clark have much more experience than Miller and Minott, but I expected more from both forwards. But I hope TC can both re-sign Reid AND sign quality FA. If in addition DET give us FRP and TC finds a rotational player it will an excellent off-season. Unfortunately, I don't see NAW coming back and I believe that Randle will gone as well for financial reasons.

Blaming Miller and Minott for Finch not playing them is an interesting choice. I blame Finch’s stubbornness and playing favorites personally. Any minute that Garza plays over Miller is a wasted minute, unless Garza is in the long term plans and Miller is not. That approach also devalues Miller in trade (how other teams read this is Miller is worse than Garza.) Minott could easily have played more minutes and give the starters more rest. The starters over use is probably why the defense looks so bad end of game.

I blame Minott for not being better so Finch COULD give them more minutes. If Minott didn’t continually make mistakes and blow the game plan, he would have gotten more minutes. Finch tried to use him, and Minott blew his opportunity. It’s no wonder that Jaylin Clark is in the line up over Minott - he follows the game plan and limits mistakes. Dane talked about it in today’s podcast.

Jaylen Clark has blown defensive matchups, switches, and been burned off the drive. He has shot 9 of 23 and 3 of 10 from deep. He has also almost fouled out of 1 of his first 3 games in 17 minutes. It’s not that he has been this awesome revelation that outplayed Minott. It is that Minott rubs Finch the wrong way so Finch gives Minott no leash. In fact Minott was playing great in very short stints when Rob was hurt. Then Rob got healthy and Finch decided not to expand the rotation and go deeper into the bench. So Minott got pulled out of the rotation for multiple games. He got thrown in and had a terrible game. 1 terrible game led to 12 seconds in another. Finch is losing games with his over use of Mike, and his grudge against Miller and Minott. It really is that simple. The solution is trade them, and fire him. If you can tell me with a straight face that playing Ingles in the third over Minott was better for the team, and that Ingles is a better defender than Minott (even when he is getting cooked by Malcom Brogdan of all people,) then I will tell you to rewatch that game.

[shrink]

I’m on the road, and I don’t have time to find the post, but I wanted to agree with you winforlose on your take that we didn’t do enough in free agency. And I think that’s especially true for Dozier.

But if MIN could only offer vet min deals, what vet mins are going to choose MIN over other offers (often ones with more money attached)? Free agency came before the KAT trade, and it torpedoed our plan for minutes distribution. For example, if we offered a vet min deal to a free agent center, who’s going to choose MIN with Gobert starting and KAT soaking up the rest of he center minutes, so Naz gets as much playing time as possible? And after the draft, both Connelly and Finch talked about how they were going to give Dillingham and Shannon minutes right from the start. If you’re a free agent guard, you aren’t picking MIN. Free agents are always going to choose teams where they get a chance to play.

So Connelly needed to find free agents that would be good in the locker room, even when they would ride the bench almost all the time. Garza and Ingles fit that bill - they contribute in the locker room.

Connelly made all those decisions before NYK was willing to include DiVincenzo in the KAT trade. Accepting that deal forced us to play DiVincenzo and Randle a lot to get them to gel with their teammates before the playoffs. The trade wrecked the plan to give Dillingham and Shannon minutes, and it created roster holes that weren’t there when we signed free agents. If this trade goes down earlier, it would have made us a much more attractive free agent destination.

The Wolves knew Dilly wasn’t ready based on Summer League. They could have paid JMAC slightly more than the minimum to keep him and promised him they would find him minutes. The Kings had just drafted Carter, had Fox and Monk ahead of him, and JMAC would have been huge for us. We should have matched GSW’s offer to Kyle, and asked him to sign with us with the intention of being traded. He would have kept his bird rights, and he could have waived the no trade if the contract was for 2 years. Obviously he was fine with the GSW amount, and we would have had the perfect trade vehicle for fixing our roster problems. Not to mention, that Kyle could have played backup 5 after the KAT trade. Never play him with Rudy and you solve the 2 non shooter problems. The last spot instead of going to Jinlges is left open, so we have KBD post trade. Tell me honestly you wouldn’t rather have JMAC, Kyle, and KBD instead of Garza, Ingles, and a bought out PJ and a waived KBD. This **** was mismanaged from the word go.

We were still talking about playing Dilly after summer league. I’d have been shocked if JMac or Monte Morris would have chosen us.

There was no way we were signing Kyle as our fourth big. $9 mil salary would have cost $50 mil with lux taxes.

Agree on KDB, but that wasn’t during free agency.

[winforlose]

I’m on the road, and I don’t have time to find the post, but I wanted to agree with you winforlose on your take that we didn’t do enough in free agency. And I think that’s especially true for Dozier.

But if MIN could only offer vet min deals, what vet mins are going to choose MIN over other offers (often ones with more money attached)? Free agency came before the KAT trade, and it torpedoed our plan for minutes distribution. For example, if we offered a vet min deal to a free agent center, who’s going to choose MIN with Gobert starting and KAT soaking up the rest of he center minutes, so Naz gets as much playing time as possible? And after the draft, both Connelly and Finch talked about how they were going to give Dillingham and Shannon minutes right from the start. If you’re a free agent guard, you aren’t picking MIN. Free agents are always going to choose teams where they get a chance to play.

So Connelly needed to find free agents that would be good in the locker room, even when they would ride the bench almost all the time. Garza and Ingles fit that bill - they contribute in the locker room.

Connelly made all those decisions before NYK was willing to include DiVincenzo in the KAT trade. Accepting that deal forced us to play DiVincenzo and Randle a lot to get them to gel with their teammates before the playoffs. The trade wrecked the plan to give Dillingham and Shannon minutes, and it created roster holes that weren’t there when we signed free agents. If this trade goes down earlier, it would have made us a much more attractive free agent destination.

The Wolves knew Dilly wasn’t ready based on Summer League. They could have paid JMAC slightly more than the minimum to keep him and promised him they would find him minutes. The Kings had just drafted Carter, had Fox and Monk ahead of him, and JMAC would have been huge for us. We should have matched GSW’s offer to Kyle, and asked him to sign with us with the intention of being traded. He would have kept his bird rights, and he could have waived the no trade if the contract was for 2 years. Obviously he was fine with the GSW amount, and we would have had the perfect trade vehicle for fixing our roster problems. Not to mention, that Kyle could have played backup 5 after the KAT trade. Never play him with Rudy and you solve the 2 non shooter problems. The last spot instead of going to Jinlges is left open, so we have KBD post trade. Tell me honestly you wouldn’t rather have JMAC, Kyle, and KBD instead of Garza, Ingles, and a bought out PJ and a waived KBD. This **** was mismanaged from the word go.

We were still talking about playing Dilly after summer league. I’d have been shocked if JMac or Monte Morris would have chosen us.

There was no way we were signing Kyle as our fourth big. $9 mil salary would have cost $50 mil with lux taxes.

Agree on KDB, but that wasn’t during free agency.

Again, JMAC was third string at best on the Kings behind both Fox and Monk, not to mention rookie Carter. If you need more convincing, look at JMAC’s play logs on BB ref, he wasn’t given a minute promise. Here he would have had Finch (the guy loves JMAC,) and at least he would have been next man up behind a 37 year old Mike Conley. We were idiots not to sign him for Mike insurance, and you are seeing the results.

KBD was absolutely free agency. We signed PJ for no good reason. Leave the spot open in case a trade happens, or in case an injury happens. We didn’t need to commit to PJ, unless of course we worried he would go back to Europe because no team would touch him. That mistake by TC put us in a bad spot. Keeping PJ and waiving KBD put us in a worse one.

Kyle could have been traded for 4 million in salary and a trade exemption. Hell he could have been traded for nothing more than a TPE and he still would have been excellent insurance while providing value. Instead we sign and trade him for a 2nd. Look at Okogie and the Suns, the model works.

[shrink]

The Wolves knew Dilly wasn’t ready based on Summer League. They could have paid JMAC slightly more than the minimum to keep him and promised him they would find him minutes. The Kings had just drafted Carter, had Fox and Monk ahead of him, and JMAC would have been huge for us. We should have matched GSW’s offer to Kyle, and asked him to sign with us with the intention of being traded. He would have kept his bird rights, and he could have waived the no trade if the contract was for 2 years. Obviously he was fine with the GSW amount, and we would have had the perfect trade vehicle for fixing our roster problems. Not to mention, that Kyle could have played backup 5 after the KAT trade. Never play him with Rudy and you solve the 2 non shooter problems. The last spot instead of going to Jinlges is left open, so we have KBD post trade. Tell me honestly you wouldn’t rather have JMAC, Kyle, and KBD instead of Garza, Ingles, and a bought out PJ and a waived KBD. This **** was mismanaged from the word go.

We were still talking about playing Dilly after summer league. I’d have been shocked if JMac or Monte Morris would have chosen us.

There was no way we were signing Kyle as our fourth big. $9 mil salary would have cost $50 mil with lux taxes.

Agree on KDB, but that wasn’t during free agency.

Again, JMAC was third string at best on the Kings behind both Fox and Monk, not to mention rookie Carter. If you need more convincing, look at JMAC’s play logs on BB ref, he wasn’t given a minute promise. Here he would have had Finch (the guy loves JMAC,) and at least he would have been next man up behind a 37 year old Mike Conley. We were idiots not to sign him for Mike insurance, and you are seeing the results.

KBD was absolutely free agency. We signed PJ for no good reason. Leave the spot open in case a trade happens, or in case an injury happens. We didn’t need to commit to PJ, unless of course we worried he would go back to Europe because no team would touch him. That mistake by TC put us in a bad spot. Keeping PJ and waiving KBD put us in a worse one.

Kyle could have been traded for 4 million in salary and a trade exemption. Hell he could have been traded for nothing more than a TPE and he still would have been excellent insurance while providing value. Instead we sign and trade him for a 2nd. Look at Okogie and the Suns, the model works.

Do we know we didn’t offer JMac a vet min deal? I would imagine we did, since, as you say, Finch loves him.

KBD was on the second year of a two-year free agent deal. We did not know we would receive him in a trade.

Again, $50 mil, in the hopes we find a trade for him. The Suns are not the model of fiscal prudence you should use as an example. I think signing him might have made sense if our payroll didn’t make the luxury tax hit so dangerous.

[winforlose]

We were still talking about playing Dilly after summer league. I’d have been shocked if JMac or Monte Morris would have chosen us.

There was no way we were signing Kyle as our fourth big. $9 mil salary would have cost $50 mil with lux taxes.

Agree on KDB, but that wasn’t during free agency.

Again, JMAC was third string at best on the Kings behind both Fox and Monk, not to mention rookie Carter. If you need more convincing, look at JMAC’s play logs on BB ref, he wasn’t given a minute promise. Here he would have had Finch (the guy loves JMAC,) and at least he would have been next man up behind a 37 year old Mike Conley. We were idiots not to sign him for Mike insurance, and you are seeing the results.

KBD was absolutely free agency. We signed PJ for no good reason. Leave the spot open in case a trade happens, or in case an injury happens. We didn’t need to commit to PJ, unless of course we worried he would go back to Europe because no team would touch him. That mistake by TC put us in a bad spot. Keeping PJ and waiving KBD put us in a worse one.

Kyle could have been traded for 4 million in salary and a trade exemption. Hell he could have been traded for nothing more than a TPE and he still would have been excellent insurance while providing value. Instead we sign and trade him for a 2nd. Look at Okogie and the Suns, the model works.

Do we know we didn’t offer JMac a vet min deal? I would imagine we did, since, as you say, Finch loves him.

KBD was on the second year of a two-year free agent deal. We did not know we would receive him in a trade.

Again, $50 mil, in the hopes we find a trade for him.

Even if we did we could have thrown JMAC a couple hundred thousand more. Yes it gets expensive, but with this many picks committed you cannot leave yourself a roster hole, especially at PG. Also remember that by signing and waiving Dozier we lost more than the extra money it would have cost to keep JMAC. I obviously cannot prove we didn’t try, but I read nothing saying we did.

The same person who signed PJ to spot 15 is the one negotiating for a KAT trade. Even if you’re sure that it won’t happen before the season you don’t risk it. Plus we could made arrangements for PJ to a third team with a 2nd from NYK. We got stiffed on value and left with an unbalanced roster after the trade. If you truly think what I am suggesting is unreasonable then I guess you don’t value depth or roster balance.

Yes 50 million if you cannot move him. Kyle is a lot more valuable than Josh and they moved him for almost the same money. If you are going to be a huge spender like we are you should do it the right way, otherwise you have a big tax bill and **** all to show for it.

Edit to add: I just saw your edit. I was saying this stuff during the summer. I am not using hindsight, I just predicted that Mike might decline after a long season and being 37. I was calling for signing Kyle as an exemption even before the Suns signed Josh. I was pissed at the Jingles signing calling him the Ghost of Joe Ingles. I was pretty vocal in my distaste for Garza and PJ as well. I would have preferred to keep Monte, and paid him 4 or 5, but I get why we didn’t, but JMAC should have been a wolf if we didn’t plan to keep Monte. I kept saying you cannot go into a 2nd apron season with a 37 year old starter and 19 year old rookie backup. This is not Monday Morning anything, I said it the equivalent of the Wednesday before the game.

[shrink]

Again, JMAC was third string at best on the Kings behind both Fox and Monk, not to mention rookie Carter. If you need more convincing, look at JMAC’s play logs on BB ref, he wasn’t given a minute promise. Here he would have had Finch (the guy loves JMAC,) and at least he would have been next man up behind a 37 year old Mike Conley. We were idiots not to sign him for Mike insurance, and you are seeing the results.

KBD was absolutely free agency. We signed PJ for no good reason. Leave the spot open in case a trade happens, or in case an injury happens. We didn’t need to commit to PJ, unless of course we worried he would go back to Europe because no team would touch him. That mistake by TC put us in a bad spot. Keeping PJ and waiving KBD put us in a worse one.

Kyle could have been traded for 4 million in salary and a trade exemption. Hell he could have been traded for nothing more than a TPE and he still would have been excellent insurance while providing value. Instead we sign and trade him for a 2nd. Look at Okogie and the Suns, the model works.

Do we know we didn’t offer JMac a vet min deal? I would imagine we did, since, as you say, Finch loves him.

KBD was on the second year of a two-year free agent deal. We did not know we would receive him in a trade.

Again, $50 mil, in the hopes we find a trade for him.

Even if we did we could have thrown JMAC a couple hundred thousand more. Yes it gets expensive, but with this many picks committed you cannot leave yourself a roster hole, especially at PG. Also remember that by signing and waiving Dozier we lost more than the extra money it would have cost to keep JMAC. I obviously cannot prove we didn’t try, but I read nothing saying we did.

The same person who signed PJ to spot 15 is the one negotiating for a KAT trade. Even if you’re sure that it won’t happen before the season you don’t risk it. Plus we could made arrangements for PJ to a third team with a 2nd from NYK. We got stiffed on value and left with an unbalanced roster after the trade. If you truly think what I am suggesting is unreasonable then I guess you don’t value depth or roster balance.

Yes 50 million if you cannot move him. Kyle is a lot more valuable than Josh and they moved him for almost the same money. If you are going to be a huge spender like we are you should do it the right way, otherwise you have a big tax bill and **** all to show for it.

Edit to add: I just saw your edit. I was saying this stuff during the summer. I am not using hindsight, I just predicted that Mike might decline after a long season and being 37. I was calling for signing Kyle as an exemption even before the Suns signed Josh. I was pissed at the Jingles signing calling him the Ghost of Joe Ingles. I was pretty vocal in my distaste for Garza and PJ as well. I would have preferred to keep Monte, and paid him 4 or 5, but I get why we didn’t, but JMAC should have been a wolf if we didn’t plan to keep Monte. I kept saying you cannot go into a 2nd apron season with a 37 year old starter and 19 year old rookie backup. This is not Monday Morning anything, I said it the equivalent of the Wednesday before the game.

Connelly should have expected during free agency he’d be doing a 1-for-3 trade later right, and leave free agency with two empty roster spots? That’s not Monday morning quarterbacking?

You keep pointing out the later Dozier decision waiving to justify what decisions should have been made earlier. And that’s not Monday morning quarterbacking either?

You are magically zipping around in time, criticizing Connelly’s decisions at the time, when he doesn’t have the benefit of your knowledge of what would happen in the future.

You do this for the past too. If Finch had played Minott more, you act like you know for a fact we’d have won just as many games,and Minott would be a great depth piece. We don’t know that.

[thinktank]

Without scrolling up I knew that was this Loser guy posting.

[Klomp]

I’m on the road, and I don’t have time to find the post, but I wanted to agree with you winforlose on your take that we didn’t do enough in free agency. And I think that’s especially true for Dozier.

But if MIN could only offer vet min deals, what vet mins are going to choose MIN over other offers (often ones with more money attached)? Free agency came before the KAT trade, and it torpedoed our plan for minutes distribution. For example, if we offered a vet min deal to a free agent center, who’s going to choose MIN with Gobert starting and KAT soaking up the rest of he center minutes, so Naz gets as much playing time as possible? And after the draft, both Connelly and Finch talked about how they were going to give Dillingham and Shannon minutes right from the start. If you’re a free agent guard, you aren’t picking MIN. Free agents are always going to choose teams where they get a chance to play.

So Connelly needed to find free agents that would be good in the locker room, even when they would ride the bench almost all the time. Garza and Ingles fit that bill - they contribute in the locker room.

Connelly made all those decisions before NYK was willing to include DiVincenzo in the KAT trade. Accepting that deal forced us to play DiVincenzo and Randle a lot to get them to gel with their teammates before the playoffs. The trade wrecked the plan to give Dillingham and Shannon minutes, and it created roster holes that weren’t there when we signed free agents. If this trade goes down earlier, it would have made us a much more attractive free agent destination.

The Wolves knew Dilly wasn’t ready based on Summer League. They could have paid JMAC slightly more than the minimum to keep him and promised him they would find him minutes. The Kings had just drafted Carter, had Fox and Monk ahead of him, and JMAC would have been huge for us. We should have matched GSW’s offer to Kyle, and asked him to sign with us with the intention of being traded. He would have kept his bird rights, and he could have waived the no trade if the contract was for 2 years. Obviously he was fine with the GSW amount, and we would have had the perfect trade vehicle for fixing our roster problems. Not to mention, that Kyle could have played backup 5 after the KAT trade. Never play him with Rudy and you solve the 2 non shooter problems. The last spot instead of going to Jinlges is left open, so we have KBD post trade. Tell me honestly you wouldn’t rather have JMAC, Kyle, and KBD instead of Garza, Ingles, and a bought out PJ and a waived KBD. This **** was mismanaged from the word go.

Kyle Anderson was S/T'd on July 6.
Jordan McLaughlin was signed on July 9.
First game of summer league was July 12.

[winforlose]

Do we know we didn’t offer JMac a vet min deal? I would imagine we did, since, as you say, Finch loves him.

KBD was on the second year of a two-year free agent deal. We did not know we would receive him in a trade.

Again, $50 mil, in the hopes we find a trade for him.

Even if we did we could have thrown JMAC a couple hundred thousand more. Yes it gets expensive, but with this many picks committed you cannot leave yourself a roster hole, especially at PG. Also remember that by signing and waiving Dozier we lost more than the extra money it would have cost to keep JMAC. I obviously cannot prove we didn’t try, but I read nothing saying we did.

The same person who signed PJ to spot 15 is the one negotiating for a KAT trade. Even if you’re sure that it won’t happen before the season you don’t risk it. Plus we could made arrangements for PJ to a third team with a 2nd from NYK. We got stiffed on value and left with an unbalanced roster after the trade. If you truly think what I am suggesting is unreasonable then I guess you don’t value depth or roster balance.

Yes 50 million if you cannot move him. Kyle is a lot more valuable than Josh and they moved him for almost the same money. If you are going to be a huge spender like we are you should do it the right way, otherwise you have a big tax bill and **** all to show for it.

Edit to add: I just saw your edit. I was saying this stuff during the summer. I am not using hindsight, I just predicted that Mike might decline after a long season and being 37. I was calling for signing Kyle as an exemption even before the Suns signed Josh. I was pissed at the Jingles signing calling him the Ghost of Joe Ingles. I was pretty vocal in my distaste for Garza and PJ as well. I would have preferred to keep Monte, and paid him 4 or 5, but I get why we didn’t, but JMAC should have been a wolf if we didn’t plan to keep Monte. I kept saying you cannot go into a 2nd apron season with a 37 year old starter and 19 year old rookie backup. This is not Monday Morning anything, I said it the equivalent of the Wednesday before the game.

Connelly should have expected during free agency he’d be doing a 1-for-3 trade later right, and leave two empty roster spots? That’s not Monday morning quarterbacking?

You keep pointing out the later Dozier decision waiving to justify what decisions should have been made earlier. And that’s not Monday morning quarterbacking either?

You are magically zipping around in time, criticizing Connelly’s decisions at the time, when he doesn’t have the benefit of your knowledge of what would happen in the future.

You do this for the past too. If Finch had played Minott more, you act like you know for a fact we’d have won just as many games,and Minott would be a great depth piece. We don’t know that.

The zipping around you are talking about is addressing the multiple failures at multiple stages of the offseason.

1. TC has been running the FO since 2022. He has all the knowledge of the deals he is negotiating. He knew what Randle cost and DDV cost and that NYK had to include a 3rd player to make the trade kosher. He also knew what the roster would like after. Let’s be generous and assume he didn’t know a 3 for 1 might happen, then he should not complete the trade until he moves PJ to a 3rd team. He knew we would be short a big, and he did not fix it post trade. If you don’t want it to be PJ then move Jingles or Garza. You cannot say it happened to him when he made the move.

2. TC drafted Dilly and extended Mike. He picked his PG rotation. You cannot think any team is fine with only a 37 year old starter who had health issues in the playoffs, and an undersized 19 year old rookie. This was madness, and I along with multiple members called it. This was an excellent way to sabotage the season, and it happened exactly like you would expect. Especially with Finch willing to over run Mike and not give Dilly extra run when necessary.

3. I know that you cannot run Ingles with Garza. I know that you especially cannot run those 2 with Dilly. I know that players tend to do better with consistent minutes in secure rotation spots. Can I prove we would be better off, no I cannot. But the results show it failed anyway. Finch keeps putting bad lineups out there and we keep losing. The things speaks for itself.

[shrink]

The zipping around you are talking about is addressing the multiple failures at multiple stages of the offseason.

1. TC has been running the FO since 2022. He has all the knowledge of the deals he is negotiating. He knew what Randle cost and DDV cost and that NYK had to include a 3rd player to make the trade kosher. He also knew what the roster would like after. Let’s be generous and assume he didn’t know a 3 for 1 might happen, then he should not complete the trade until he moves PJ to a 3rd team. He knew we would be short a big, and he did not fix it post trade. If you don’t want it to be PJ then move Jingles or Garza. You cannot say it happened to him when he made the move.

During Free Agency, Connelly DID NOT KNOW that NYK would include DDV. He had turned down several Knicks offers. He did the draft and free agency based on Towns being here.

He didn’t know he would make a KAT trade later, and he certainly didn’t know it would be a 3-for-1!

And now you’re inserting imaginary additional trades? Or how about blaming him for taking on the third player instead of making CHA do it?

Come on man, this is Monday morning quarterbacking. What did he know at the time he made his FREE AGENT DECISIONS in July!

[shrink]

As for the PG spot, the previous year Mike Conley played in 76 games. Finch wanted to rest him in back to backs, but Conley said that he played just as well in the second games - and proved it. He went on to say that his style of game doesn’t create a lot of contact anymore, really the only type is going through screens. Plus he was vital to Gobert. Any free agent PG would assume he was going to continue to get a lot of minutes.

Connelly invested a future, unprotected 1st and a swap to get Dillingham, which is a big price. Moreover, Finch and Connelly said he was going to be thrown in the deep end right away. Any free agent PG would assume he was going to get a lot of minutes.

Finally, the Wolves have always talked about putting the ball more in Ant’s hands, and how he would need to develop as more of a playmaker. Any free agent PG would assume he would get minutes running the show.


Now, again, IN HINDSIGHT, that hasn’t worked out. Mike started the season poorly. Dillingham didn’t get minutes. NAW struggles in the role, and while DDV looked better, he got hurt. Ant has continued to struggle as a playmaker. Yes, it turns out it would have been great if Morris or JMac had signed with us. But at the time they made the decision, they didn’t know, and Connelly didn’t know, how many minutes would be available for them, and it’s why they didn’t end up here.

[winforlose]

The zipping around you are talking about is addressing the multiple failures at multiple stages of the offseason.

1. TC has been running the FO since 2022. He has all the knowledge of the deals he is negotiating. He knew what Randle cost and DDV cost and that NYK had to include a 3rd player to make the trade kosher. He also knew what the roster would like after. Let’s be generous and assume he didn’t know a 3 for 1 might happen, then he should not complete the trade until he moves PJ to a 3rd team. He knew we would be short a big, and he did not fix it post trade. If you don’t want it to be PJ then move Jingles or Garza. You cannot say it happened to him when he made the move.

During Free Agency, Connelly DID NOT KNOW that NYK would include DDV. He had turned down several Knicks offers. He did the draft and free agency based on Towns being here.

He didn’t know he would make a KAT trade later, and he certainly didn’t know it would be a 3-for-1!

And now you’re inserting imaginary additional trades? Or how about blaming him for taking on the third player instead of making CHA do it?

Come on man, this is Monday morning quarterbacking. What did he know at the time he made his FREE AGENT DECISIONS in July!

I don’t know how much clearer I can make this, but I will try again, this time in chronological order.

1. TC trades DLO for Mike knowing he would create a future issue at PG and struggle to fix it.

2. Mike has a great year in 23/24, but he also plays a lot of games and a lot of minutes. The Wolves had JMAC and Kyle and traded for Monte as insurance for Mike, but they also knew they were in a tough spot financially.

3. In order to secure the PGOF and fix the hole from the DLO trade TC sends out a pick and a swap for Dilly. At this point it is summer 24 and he watches Dilly play through Summer league before free agency.

4. TC has all 5 returning starters, he has Naz and NAW, plus Minott, Miller, and the rookies under contract. He has been negotiating with the Knicks to get DDV and Randle. Not one or the other, both! He knows the structure of that deal is very specific because of the NYK and MIN salary situations. NYK refuses to include DDV and we proceed to FA.

5. We lose Kyle, Monte, JMAC, and Luka to free agency. We have 4 spots available. I want us to bring back Kyle (for reasons I specified,) bring back Monte, and leave spot 15 open. TC decides Monte is not worth more than a minimum and lets him walk. At that point the PG rotation is still 37 year old worn down Mike, and 19 year old undersized Dilly. Our bigs are Rudy and Karl without Kyle. We sign Luka to be our 3rd big. Personally I hate the move because Miller should be our third big, and the space could be used better, but there we are. We sign Jingles to replace Kyle, and Minott or Clark should get all his minutes. He was a player coach, nothing more. Finally we sign PJ instead of a PG or leaving open a spot. We give him a 1 million guarantee (which we should not do,) and now our roster is set. All the while TC knows if NYK comes back and offers DDV and Randle he will say YES!!!!

6. We are approaching training camp and have an imbalanced roster with a major hole at the PG and we bring back Nix as a two way to address it. Nix is not good enough, but whatever. We also grab Jessie Edwards as a project, so be it. Now the phone rings and NYK caves. TC is NOT forced to say yes. He is not obligated to trade KAT, he decides to. He knows that it creates a roster hole at C2, he knows we still have a roster hole at PG 2 or 3, and he does nothing about it with the trade. He doesn’t insist on one of the three free agents (or more,) to a 3rd team, or extra capital to get rid of them (2nds.) Instead he makes a deal to unbalance the roster.

7. With 16 men on the Roster 14 - KAT plus 3 incoming, he could have dumped PJ, but that means owning his mistake, so instead he dumps KBD. 15 men on the roster to big roster holes and in the 2nd apron.

8. We cut PJ to prevent him from being guaranteed. No one picks him up because he is not good enough.

TC made choices at every step, and most of them were bad. The Dilly trade maybe not, getting NAW and Mike for Dlo, not directly. It created a future problem, but a fixable one. He chose not to make proper patches this year, and we sprung a leak.

As for playing the young guys, you might be right, they might just suck. But you don’t find out by benching them or giving them virtually no room to make mistakes. You don’t find out by playing guys like Jingles and Garza who should not be on the team next year. If we lose doing the right thing so be it. But losing doing the wrong thing is worse.

None of this is hindsight. All of it was predictable.