Official Scottie All Star Barnes Thread 9

[Thaddy]

Yeah that was beautiful, he made that decision the second he saw Harden hedging, this is the kind of play making no one else on the team brings, not all assists are created equal.

There are very few players in the league with his playmaking instincts.

Damn, that was hella disappointing. I thought he made a Doncic-level eyes behind the head type of play based on your descriptions.

You guys are talking about how he ran a play at the top of the arc, drove 1-2 steps and passed to a painfully obvious wide open Ja’Kobe cutting to the basket right in front of him right?

Barnes isn't an elite passer. He struggles to dribble and look up at the same time without losing the ball, he has serious ball handling and ball security issues. The problem is that he hasn't improved much in that regard since his rookie year. I am pretty much giving up on him as a prospect. He's a finished product and while he can get better, it won't be by leaps and bounds. There isn't any elite offensive skill he brings to the table.

[HangTime]

There are very few players in the league with his playmaking instincts.

Damn, that was hella disappointing. I thought he made a Doncic-level eyes behind the head type of play based on your descriptions.

You guys are talking about how he ran a play at the top of the arc, drove 1-2 steps and passed to a painfully obvious wide open Ja’Kobe cutting to the basket right in front of him right?

Barnes isn't an elite passer. He struggles to dribble and look up at the same time without losing the ball, he has serious ball handling and ball security issues. The problem is that he hasn't improved much in that regard since his rookie year. I am pretty much giving up on him as a prospect. He's a finished product and while he can get better, it won't be by leaps and bounds. There isn't any elite offensive skill he brings to the table.

I'm curious How can you give up on him as a prospect when he was basically used as a finished product his first 2 years?

He's behind the learning curve becasue of it, and became an Allstar last year.

He's basically in year 2 right now when it comes development.

[tsherkin]

He's basically in year 2 right now when it comes development.

He's had plenty of time for development. He isn't in year 2 conceptually, that's just odd. He's trying to work around and improve upon his deficiencies as a scorer, but he's shown pretty significant development in areas other than scoring since he started.

[YogurtProducer]

He's basically in year 2 right now when it comes development.

He's had plenty of time for development. He isn't in year 2 conceptually, that's just odd. He's trying to work around and improve upon his deficiencies as a scorer, but he's shown pretty significant development in areas other than scoring since he started.

Yeah saying this is year 2 is just coping.

He was around a winning team in year 1 which should be amazing for development. He was a big part of that team too.

It is not like the only way to develop is to be force fed shots in an NBA game. If it were, how did Siakam ever go from a bench player to a starter to an all star? He was not given 20 shots a night to learn how to do it. Development happens on your own time, in the summers.

[tsherkin]

It is not like the only way to develop is to be force fed shots in an NBA game. If it were, how did Siakam ever go from a bench player to a starter to an all star? He was not given 20 shots a night to learn how to do it. Development happens on your own time, in the summers.

Agreed.

Scottie's problems include, but are not limited to: non-elite athleticism, the lack of a high-end jumpshot, lack of consistent 3pt shooting, weak FT shooting and a lack of elite shot making inside the arc.

Not having two more seasons of bombing in volume hasn't inhibited his development in those areas. And he HAS shown us improvement on defense and as a playmaker, while this season appears to be showing us a short middie, though obviously that's slowly coming down now, so we'll have to keep an eye on it.

I think we all know that he isn't going to be a high-end scorer. That isn't generally how player development works. But we have the space to let him see if he can cultivate his skillset so we can discover if he has more offensive capacity than what we've seen to date, or if we need to pivot away from that idea entirely once we start actively trying to win.

[TorontoBarneys]

Last night was quite concerning for me in regards to him. He tried driving to the basket multiple times and got easily blocked/defended and had to put up low percentage circus layups as a result. Drew no fouls. It was subtle but he played distinctly differently yesterday and it was not working for him other than the middies.

His mid range is good but it's becoming very repetitive. Turnaround fadeaway can't be his go-to. No way that's a high quality shot.

[dTox]

He's basically in year 2 right now when it comes development.

He's had plenty of time for development. He isn't in year 2 conceptually, that's just odd. He's trying to work around and improve upon his deficiencies as a scorer, but he's shown pretty significant development in areas other than scoring since he started.

Yeah saying this is year 2 is just coping.

He was around a winning team in year 1 which should be amazing for development. He was a big part of that team too.

It is not like the only way to develop is to be force fed shots in an NBA game. If it were, how did Siakam ever go from a bench player to a starter to an all star? He was not given 20 shots a night to learn how to do it. Development happens on your own time, in the summers.

The cream always rises to the top, look at Amen Thomson with Houston for example (who happens to be playing next to FVV).

[tsherkin]

The cream always rises to the top, look at Amen Thomson with Houston for example (who happens to be playing next to FVV).

His athleticism makes a big difference. So does his volume and usage.

Thompson takes 9.7 FGA/g right now. 2.3 of them come in transition, another 1.6 on cuts, another full 1.0 FGA/g on putbacks, right? That's almost 5 of his 10 FGA/g coming on super high-percentage looks, 60%+ FG (68% in transition). A shade over 50% of his looks are assisted. That's a pretty big deal for what he looks like. And then of course his defense. But if you put him in Scottie's position, he'd look materially worse. Even as a starter, he's still only taking like 12.3 FGA/g. 18.5% USG. He has some luxuries Scottie does not on offense, both in terms of his tools and his context/deployment.

[HumbleRen]

The cream always rises to the top, look at Amen Thomson with Houston for example (who happens to be playing next to FVV).

His athleticism makes a big difference. So does his volume and usage.

Thompson takes 9.7 FGA/g right now. 2.3 of them come in transition, another 1.6 on cuts, another full 1.0 FGA/g on putbacks, right? That's almost 5 of his 10 FGA/g coming on super high-percentage looks, 60%+ FG (68% in transition). A shade over 50% of his looks are assisted. That's a pretty big deal for what he looks like. And then of course his defense. But if you put him in Scottie's position, he'd look materially worse. Even as a starter, he's still only taking like 12.3 FGA/g. 18.5% USG. He has some luxuries Scottie does not on offense, both in terms of his tools and his context/deployment.

He is partially right that the cream does rise to the top though.

Amen in his 2nd year is already as good as Scottie is in his 4th, if not more impactful.

He’s just gifted with athleticism that virtually nobody else in the league currently has right now. Scottie will never be able to make up that difference, it’s just a different playing field.

You are right in that, Amen isn’t being overextended like Scottie is. Amen’s efficiency would take a decent dip if he was shouldering a load like Scottie was on offence but again, Scottie is in year 4. I’m not asking him to score 25 a night but at the very least he needs to have league average TS if he’s only going to put up 20 a night as the first option.

[Scase]

Overall, Scottie should not be putting up 23FGA, especially when the rest of the team was having solid shooting nights, he should be ratcheting those down significantly and looking to facilitate more.

[PushDaRock]

Another player from the draft class that is pretty damn close to catching up to Scottie if not already is Trey Murphy. It's on a losing team but he's played incredibly well this season and taken a massive leap. 22.6 ppg on 62.4 TS% on only 23.4% USG is incredibly efficient. The rebounding and passing is still progressing but he's at 2 stocks per game and provides great positional size as a defender. The volume 3 point shooting translates over to any team as well and best of all he's on possibly the biggest bargain deal in the league at 28m AAV.

[PushDaRock]

It is not like the only way to develop is to be force fed shots in an NBA game. If it were, how did Siakam ever go from a bench player to a starter to an all star? He was not given 20 shots a night to learn how to do it. Development happens on your own time, in the summers.

Agreed.

Scottie's problems include, but are not limited to: non-elite athleticism, the lack of a high-end jumpshot, lack of consistent 3pt shooting, weak FT shooting and a lack of elite shot making inside the arc.

Not having two more seasons of bombing in volume hasn't inhibited his development in those areas. And he HAS shown us improvement on defense and as a playmaker, while this season appears to be showing us a short middie, though obviously that's slowly coming down now, so we'll have to keep an eye on it.

I think we all know that he isn't going to be a high-end scorer. That isn't generally how player development works. But we have the space to let him see if he can cultivate his skillset so we can discover if he has more offensive capacity than what we've seen to date, or if we need to pivot away from that idea entirely once we start actively trying to win.

He's trending more and more towards topping out as a #3/4 scoring option on a good team. That's not even necessarily a bad thing if it allows him to conserve his energy to be that All-NBA level defender he's capable of.

[Nature]

Last night was quite concerning for me in regards to him. He tried driving to the basket multiple times and got easily blocked/defended and had to put up low percentage circus layups as a result. Drew no fouls. It was subtle but he played distinctly differently yesterday and it was not working for him other than the middies.

His mid range is good but it's becoming very repetitive. Turnaround fadeaway can't be his go-to. No way that's a high quality shot.

The faster people realize he's a Lamar Odom/Andre Iguodala type of player the better off we'll be.

Great role players on championship teams (fantastic pieces!). But third options at the very best.

[tsherkin]

He is partially right that the cream does rise to the top though.

Amen in his 2nd year is already as good as Scottie is in his 4th, if not more impactful.

He’s just gifted with athleticism that virtually nobody else in the league currently has right now. Scottie will never be able to make up that difference, it’s just a different playing field.

Yes, I agree with all of that. I wasn't really disagreeing, I was just noting that Scottie is more of a slow-burn guy because he's missing the elite athleticism.

You are right in that, Amen isn’t being overextended like Scottie is. Amen’s efficiency would take a decent dip if he was shouldering a load like Scottie was on offence but again, Scottie is in year 4. I’m not asking him to score 25 a night but at the very least he needs to have league average TS if he’s only going to put up 20 a night as the first option.

He's still shooting a fair amount and the offensive environment isn't a lot. We're asking him to shoulder a lot of the initiation load, which is hurting him because of his various deficiencies. He's clearly not a particularly good scorer at this time, but there isn't a lot we can do about that until we acquire better talent around him. Moreover, him in this role is helping RJ out, so again, until we have a better primary offensive initiator, this is where he's at. Also, he just had a bad game against a good defense, and he'd had a run which netted him player of the week, so we should probably keep affording him at least a little bit of wiggle room this season.

He's trending more and more towards topping out as a #3/4 scoring option on a good team. That's not even necessarily a bad thing if it allows him to conserve his energy to be that All-NBA level defender he's capable of.

That's roughly my read. He's got a lot to contribute, but volume scoring doesn't seem to be his thing, that's all. Still quite a useful player.

The faster people realize he's a Lamar Odom/Andre Iguodala type of player the better off we'll be.

Great role players on championship teams (fantastic pieces!). But third options at the very best.

Ayep.

[Scase]

He is partially right that the cream does rise to the top though.

Amen in his 2nd year is already as good as Scottie is in his 4th, if not more impactful.

He’s just gifted with athleticism that virtually nobody else in the league currently has right now. Scottie will never be able to make up that difference, it’s just a different playing field.

Yes, I agree with all of that. I wasn't really disagreeing, I was just noting that Scottie is more of a slow-burn guy because he's missing the elite athleticism.

You are right in that, Amen isn’t being overextended like Scottie is. Amen’s efficiency would take a decent dip if he was shouldering a load like Scottie was on offence but again, Scottie is in year 4. I’m not asking him to score 25 a night but at the very least he needs to have league average TS if he’s only going to put up 20 a night as the first option.

He's still shooting a fair amount and the offensive environment isn't a lot. We're asking him to shoulder a lot of the initiation load, which is hurting him because of his various deficiencies. He's clearly not a particularly good scorer at this time, but there isn't a lot we can do about that until we acquire better talent around him. Moreover, him in this role is helping RJ out, so again, until we have a better primary offensive initiator, this is where he's at. Also, he just had a bad game against a good defense, and he'd had a run which netted him player of the week, so we should probably keep affording him at least a little bit of wiggle room this season.

He's trending more and more towards topping out as a #3/4 scoring option on a good team. That's not even necessarily a bad thing if it allows him to conserve his energy to be that All-NBA level defender he's capable of.

That's roughly my read. He's got a lot to contribute, but volume scoring doesn't seem to be his thing, that's all. Still quite a useful player.

The faster people realize he's a Lamar Odom/Andre Iguodala type of player the better off we'll be.

Great role players on championship teams (fantastic pieces!). But third options at the very best.

Ayep.

I think the term role player is something that most, myself included, would take exception with. A 3rd option (to me) isn't a role player, a role player, that's a bench guy. Most will agree that he isn't/shouldn't be a primary scoring option, but look at this team, nobody should be.

He looks worse cause the team is bad, scoring is not his strength, so it's gonna look pretty crappy. The hopes is that we can get a real scorer via the draft, or GD turns into one, and Scottie can be in a role he is more suited for. Offensive facilitator/beast on defence, but this team is doing absolutely nothing until there is a real scoring threat here.

[Tha Cynic]

I like to pop in here from time to time. I see we have now moved away from talking about Banchero and JDub being the next superstars to now finding other random players having recent runs. lol

Anyway, definitely wish he could shoot like Durant, but the progress is there trying to become a better offensive scorer. Been happy watching him try new things this season.

Go Raps go!

[PushDaRock]

We talk a lot about how Scottie makes RJ better but it's likely the other way around as well

Scottie in 10 games without RJ this year is averaging 18.1 ppg 7.3 rpg 4.9 apg on 48.8 TS%

[dballislife]

we really needed scottie tonight and he was terrible

[Raps in 4]

I'm getting tired of these awful shooting nights from Scottie. I'm giving him one more season after this one before I give up on him as a potential first or second option (that potential is already hanging on by just a thread).

[sbsat]

His 3 point shot is arguable worse than his rookie year but now hes shooting at volume. Brutal.