Middleton/Johnson to Wash for Kuzma/Baldwin

[buckboy]

Cody Martin is maybe okay bench guy but what draft capital do we even have besides ‘31 1st?

Got a second in the Wiz deal and have the 2031 second.

And that’s the later of their 2nd round picks right?

I think we would have preferred his brother Caleb but whatever, Pat isn’t helping us and our defense needs any help it can get.

It's the best of Phoenix/Detroit/Golden St. So somewhere 13-16 in the 2nd round.

[raferfenix]

Most optimistic take I’ve seen via Zach Harper:

I’ve often been on the side of “Kuzma is underrated.” While he’s been a fun punchline on the internet for his fashion and self-confidence, Kuzma became a really good role player, very quickly for the Los Angeles Lakers, who he helped toward a title in 2020. Then, he got moved to the Wizards in the Russell Westbrook trade, and he just kind of toiled there while still playing mostly good basketball on a horrendous team. I’ve been banging the drum of “Kuzma could really help a contender” for a couple years now.

Kuzma won’t replace the playmaking Middleton provided when the latter was healthy, but Kuzma can really score. He can get out in transition, he’s a great option cutting toward the basket, he’s tall and athletic for the three and he can knock down a jumper. You almost have to throw out his numbers from the past couple seasons and give him a clean slate to see if a real basketball environment will give his production a massive boost — or at least boost his efficiency.

The key for Kuzma will come from the defensive end of the floor. We have seen him be a very good defender in the past. We have also seen him abandon that end of the floor recently. Kuzma has to dedicate himself to defense to make his impact felt and to gain the trust of Antetokounmpo and company. If he plays the way he did for the Lakers, this is a brilliant pickup. If he’s been stuck in the malaise too long, it’s going to be a rough gamble for Milwaukee.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6115603/2025/02/05/kyle-kuzma-bucks-khris-middleton-wizards-nba-trade-deadline/

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Horst got absolutely taken to the cleaners lmao. A pick swap, giving up your 1st round pick this year and the better player for Kuzma hahahahaha. **** you.

You've got to be kidding me with that. We included AJ Johnson, too?

You've got to be kidding me with that. We included AJ Johnson, too?

I might be most upset about this aspect

Yep, I was coming to grips with Middleton for Kuzma. But drafting a guy like AJ Johnson who wasn't going to help this year at all, but there was hope he could become a good player in a year or two. Then trading AJ Johnson as a throw in for this trade is crazy.

As a Wizards fan, I agree with all of you. This trade seems to be a stinker for you guys. Washington clearly wanted AJ Johnson.

The only consolation I can give is often past Wizards end up prospering elsewhere. Bobby Portis, Daniel Gafford, Kristaps Porzingis, Javale McGee, Kentavious Caldwell Pope, Ish Smith, Jeff Green

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40294703/nba-finals-2024-mavericks-daniel-gafford-celtics-kristaps-porzingis-washington-wizards

I predict Kyle Kuzma is going to become a fan favorite, like Bobby Portis.

[raferfenix]

So do we start Kuzma at the 3, and move AJ Green to start at the 2?

Or what’s our new starting lineup?

If Kuzma can’t defend we’re screwed. But at least he’s an athlete who can run the floor and attack the rack.

[buckboy]

So do we start Kuzma at the 3, and move AJ Green to start at the 2?

Or what’s our new starting lineup?

If Kuzma can’t defend we’re screwed. But at least he’s an athlete who can run the floor and attack the rack.

That would be my assumption. And Kuzma has been a plus defender in the past (but that's a while ago now).

[Wonka]

"You almost have to throw out Kuzma's numbers from the last couple of seasons."

Then what the hell are we supposed to be looking at?

[Ron Swanson]

Kuzma at the 3 defensively? You guys haven't watched much of Kyle Kuzma....

[M-C-G]

"You almost have to throw out Kuzma's numbers from the last couple of seasons."

Then what the hell are we supposed to be looking at?

Him as a 3rd or 4th option that will be asked to play defense and play fast? Huge difference from him pretending he is the number 1 option on a **** team and what we need him to do here. Zero idea if he can or will but it certainly will not be the same as he played there

[pifhluk23]

Kuzma has the worst TS% in the entire league of players with 450+ fga.

[mlloyd10]

"You almost have to throw out Kuzma's numbers from the last couple of seasons."

Then what the hell are we supposed to be looking at?

2021-2022 season was the last time he had talent around him

[Bernman]

Most optimistic take I’ve seen via Zach Harper:

I’ve often been on the side of “Kuzma is underrated.” While he’s been a fun punchline on the internet for his fashion and self-confidence, Kuzma became a really good role player, very quickly for the Los Angeles Lakers, who he helped toward a title in 2020. Then, he got moved to the Wizards in the Russell Westbrook trade, and he just kind of toiled there while still playing mostly good basketball on a horrendous team. I’ve been banging the drum of “Kuzma could really help a contender” for a couple years now.

Kuzma won’t replace the playmaking Middleton provided when the latter was healthy, but Kuzma can really score. He can get out in transition, he’s a great option cutting toward the basket, he’s tall and athletic for the three and he can knock down a jumper. You almost have to throw out his numbers from the past couple seasons and give him a clean slate to see if a real basketball environment will give his production a massive boost — or at least boost his efficiency.

The key for Kuzma will come from the defensive end of the floor. We have seen him be a very good defender in the past. We have also seen him abandon that end of the floor recently. Kuzma has to dedicate himself to defense to make his impact felt and to gain the trust of Antetokounmpo and company. If he plays the way he did for the Lakers, this is a brilliant pickup. If he’s been stuck in the malaise too long, it’s going to be a rough gamble for Milwaukee.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6115603/2025/02/05/kyle-kuzma-bucks-khris-middleton-wizards-nba-trade-deadline/

Picking the right motivational plan for Kuzma will be important. I'd be tempted to scold that he better turn it around after getting out of that loser franchise, the Bucks trading a legend for him & a guy w/ major upside. But maybe you catch more flies w/ honey.

[CharityStripe34]

I would imagine Kuzma would be first guy off the bench as the small-ball 4? Initially, at least.

[-Jragon-]

Maybe Johnson becomes a good or great NBA player. None of us know about that.

But we are all 100% certain that his NBA timeliness does not align with that of Giannis Antetokounmpo and Damian Lillard.

Every significant move the Bucks make needs to be about the Giannis Antetokounmpo Bucks.



Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

Then you never should have drafted him...either way it's a mistake and waste or resource

plenty of top 8 players don't pan out.. this dude was the 23rd... we've overrated EVERY rookie we had and they just fizzle out.. why assume different on AJJ.. Kuzma has a ring.. interesting note there

[raferfenix]

Kuzma at the 3 defensively? You guys haven't watched much of Kyle Kuzma....

Kuzma and Bobby being so horrific defensively they’re unplayable together is another concern I got.

[paulpressey25]

Since this is the Festivus thread and we’re airing grievances…..

MarJon Beauchamp. That was an absolute idiotic pick. I felt it the moment the name was read, but so many people liked his back story it dampened the criticism. That pick needed to be dealt with Pat or Bobby for a better player. Total wipeout of a selection.

[buckboy]

Kuzma at the 3 defensively? You guys haven't watched much of Kyle Kuzma....

Yeah, I misread. He's a 4 on defense.

[JayMKE]

I don’t see lot of advantage to Kuzma/Giannis relative to Portis/Giannis. Doesn’t really open things up at all imo, Bobby is better shooter and rebounder and Kuzma is probably better switching but both kinda suck on that end. Together would just be a clown show. Maybe Kuzma/Lopez would be better than Portis/Lopez

[M-C-G]

A week ago no one would have thought Dallas wanted out of the Luka business because they DID NOT want him extended on that deal. Not hard to see why the Bucks wouldn’t want to be in the Middleton business at 34M next year. My mind wasn’t there before the trade, but seems clear they wanted nothing to do with him at that salary and were looking for options to get out. Guessing this was down on our list but deemed acceptable

[-Jragon-]

Showing promise, absolutely. Hitting on the pick, don’t agree, yet. Thon showed promise. nwora showed promise. I think the timeline for AJJ to play wasn’t a fit and if anything should have us pissing on Horst for not getting Dunn all the more

Fundamental distinction between Thon's 'promise', Nwora's 'promise', and the performance AJ Johnson put on the floor. No need to say it was more than it is. Young, not there yet; an entire categorical difference as far as NBA potential. You're talking weak, weak hopes versus stop-me hoops. Denialism will leave the Bucks putting a 47yo Giannis on the floor, alone, with nobody left to ignore but has-been free agent point guards he won't let handle the ball. --Oh, I see, you're still just Big Mad about Dunn. He has to get there before we can say we 'hit on the pick'. You're looking end-stage; we're not talking about 7years from now. 'We hit on the pick at this stage of development; given what we know, so far.' Not hard to grasp.

Not hard to grasp. He is putting up mediocre stats in G league and not going to crack the line up this year because he got beat out by Rollins Ajax and Green for potential minutes. It’s important to understand that I like his potential but I’ve exhausted this conversation because the deal is done.

Let me ask assuming we did this solely to get out of the Midds opt in and get under the second apron, are you choosing AJ Green, Ajax or AJJ or the 31 1st as the compensation? They obviously didn’t view Marjon as value, so which young player or pick are you giving up? I think the answer is clear, AJJ or Ajax (to me)

That's tough though because AJAX is starting which at minimum makes him a rotation player for this and next year's playoff run.. that's our window rn

[old skool]

Maybe Johnson becomes a good or great NBA player. None of us know about that.

But we are all 100% certain that his NBA timeliness does not align with that of Giannis Antetokounmpo and Damian Lillard.

Every significant move the Bucks make needs to be about the Giannis Antetokounmpo Bucks.



Sent from my SM-N960U using RealGM mobile app

Then don’t draft him in the first place

That's the most salient pt. It didn't make sense to draft a developmental project in the Bucks' situation in the 1st place. Then one can't say now he didn't fit the timeline to excuse this decision now.

The other pt is why is he thrown in to a move where we get the worse win now player, instead of straight up for a better one.

It would make perfect sense to draft a long term prospect rather than pick a player with more future upside, but who has no shot at playing ahead of Connaughton, Trent, Jackson, Green, Rollins and Wright.

It makes no sense to declare a rookie G-League stash "untouchable", solely because he was drafted. Especially after watching that player's progress over half of his rookie season.

The Bucks did not draft Johnson because they felt he was the best player available for them in June 2024. They idea that their evaluation and draft decision then should dictate their trade decision in February 2025 is absurd. Decisions are made in view of current conditions, not constrained by the past.