Trade Talk (Part 16): Early Season Anxiety Edition

[_AIJ_]

Id rather do Ball and Smith. Hope conley retires then resign Lonzo and he can back up Rob next year

[shrink]

What changed? The CBA. The Gobert trade was done prior to the newest CBA.

A lot of people on this board seem unwilling to admit that they overrated KAT's value. If there were significantly better trades out there they would have been made, but there weren't. And for as good as KAT is he has an equal number of drawbacks, whether that's defensively (worst rim protector in the league this year), health or contract.

The deal was a soft reboot around Ant. The effect of it, good or bad, was always a long term thing. It can't be judged definitively at this time.

Nice post.

I think we were all shocked by the KAT trade, but we weren’t just trading KAT, we were trading KAT on a supermax. NYK was reportedly the most interested for the longest time, so I think this was probably the best offer. If KAT got hurt again, he’d be untradeable. I think Connelly took us out of the supermax business before other GMs did the same, and caused fans to realize just how limiting apron rules are.

[BlacJacMac]

Id rather do Ball and Smith. Hope conley retires then resign Lonzo and he can back up Rob next year

What I love about Ball is with his size and defensive flexibility you can play him with Ant, Rob, Donte, Clark...

[Domejandro]

How about a trade that gives us Haliburton AND Ant??? And we keep Jaden, NAZ AND Rudy?!?!? Too good to be true??? Check it out.

Ind OUT: Haliburton, Jarace Walker, Johnny Furphy
Ind IN: Butler, DD, NAW, '25 SRP (Utah), '25 FRP (Det)
McConnell-Nembhard-DD-Mathurin-NAW-Butler-Nesmith-Sheppard-Siakam-Toppin-Turner
Starting 5: Nembhard/DD/Butler/Siakam/Turner

Mia OUT: Butler
Mia IN: Randle, Walker, Furphy
Rozier-Burks-Herro-Highsmith-Jovic-JJJ-Robinson-Randle-Bam-Ware
Starting 5: Rozier/Herro/Robinson/Randle/Bam

MN OUT: Randle, DD, NAW, '25 SRP (Utah), '25 FRP (Det)
MN IN: Haliburton
PG- Haliburton/Mike/RD
SG- Ant/FA/Clark/TSJ
SF- Jaden/Naz/Minott/Ingles
PF- Naz/FA/Miller
C- Rudy/FA/Garza
Starting 5: Haliburton/Ant/Jaden/Naz/Rudy

Value is pretty brutal for Indiana, but even with that aside, this isn’t a legal trade (aggregating salaries while staying above the Second Apron).

[cmoss84]

How about a trade that gives us Haliburton AND Ant??? And we keep Jaden, NAZ AND Rudy?!?!? Too good to be true??? Check it out.

Ind OUT: Haliburton, Jarace Walker, Johnny Furphy
Ind IN: Butler, DD, NAW, '25 SRP (Utah), '25 FRP (Det)
McConnell-Nembhard-DD-Mathurin-NAW-Butler-Nesmith-Sheppard-Siakam-Toppin-Turner
Starting 5: Nembhard/DD/Butler/Siakam/Turner

Mia OUT: Butler
Mia IN: Randle, Walker, Furphy
Rozier-Burks-Herro-Highsmith-Jovic-JJJ-Robinson-Randle-Bam-Ware
Starting 5: Rozier/Herro/Robinson/Randle/Bam

MN OUT: Randle, DD, NAW, '25 SRP (Utah), '25 FRP (Det)
MN IN: Haliburton
PG- Haliburton/Mike/RD
SG- Ant/FA/Clark/TSJ
SF- Jaden/Naz/Minott/Ingles
PF- Naz/FA/Miller
C- Rudy/FA/Garza
Starting 5: Haliburton/Ant/Jaden/Naz/Rudy

Value is pretty brutal for Indiana, but even with that aside, this isn’t a legal trade (aggregating salaries while staying above the Second Apron).

Maybe you are right with the Indiana bit...to me, it makes them a better team short & long term.

You can aggregate as long as you end up under 2nd apron (I think this is discussed every day on here ). I used the spotrac trade machine...

[Folklore]

There's no trade that's going to save this team because no team is getting rid of their players that show real potential. I think that teams are going to want scouts that know what they're doing from now on because now owners are really watching out for the new taxes. Last year was a our chance to get rid of Rudy because there were teams willing to take salary and didn't see the chance coming. The only thing left to do now is trade talent we have for picks in hopes for better talent through the draft. And also get rid of Finch for a coach who knows how to develop talent because that's our best option.

TC didn't have a real end game and this is the result. He's as bad as Nico Harrison.

[younggunsmn]

One of the biggest advantages for us to keep Anthony Edwards in Minnesota is because Anthony Edwards wants to be in Minnesota.

I think Ant is already a better player than Haliburton, and with the huge athletic gap between them, his ceiling is so much higher. But even if we were offered a superior player (say, Luka Doncic?), I am not sure MIN trades Ant because of the huge risk that the player doesn’t want to be in Minnesota and walks for nothing.

KAT wanted to stay in MIN. We even traded a league generation of FRPs for Gobert to pair with Karl to create a unique advantage. A year later, we abandon this strategy and move Karl for absolute ****.

Why did we do this? What changed following our greatest season in 20 years? Was Connelly unaware that he could review our Salary Cap structure farther than six (6) months out?

I can't think of a worse scenario for an NBA team than having your GM, on the last year of their contract, making long-term decisions for the franchise.

Tim Connelly can **** off right along with our ownership. The ultimate cost of his actions will be the loss of Ant. The road to his departure has already been paved.

With that said, I DO appreciate your efforts to remain positive. It's a rare quality these days and admirable...but sometimes a guy just needs to read the room and accept what his eyes are telling him.

Sent from my N152DL using RealGM mobile app

What changed? The CBA. The Gobert trade was done prior to the newest CBA.

A lot of people on this board seem unwilling to admit that they overrated KAT's value. If there were significantly better trades out there they would have been made, but there weren't. And for as good as KAT is he has an equal number of drawbacks, whether that's defensively (worst rim protector in the league this year), health or contract.

The deal was a soft reboot around Ant. The effect of it, good or bad, was always a long term thing. It can't be judged definitively at this time.

This is wrong on so many levels.
1. This franchise in this market was NEVER going to maintain such a high level of salary for more than a year or two, luxury tax, new CBA or no. Adding Gobert to a supermax and soon to be supermax player was either a short term gamble or ridiculously shortsighted decsion by Connelly.

2. TC traded 5 first round picks for Gobert whose on court presence destroyed KAT's value by forcing him to be a perimeter player only.

3. TC then traded KAT and the primary return was Julius Randle, who we likely can't even get an expiring contract for.

4. To get out of 4 years of KAT we took on 2 years of Julius Randle, who also has a substantial injury history, which was absolutely a moronic thing to do and is likely to cost us Naz this summer.
For a supposed salary dump trade we are getting little to no savings for half of his remaining contract.

5. KAT has a shot at first team All-NBA this year if he can remain healthy.
He was once rated the most valuable trade asset in the entire league and is still in his prime at 29 years old.
His team is on a pace to be 6 or 7 wins better and the team he left is on a pace to be 10 wins worse and that could get even worse.

Lets call the KAT trade what it really is, Tim Connelly being a terrible judge of fit and talent.
He has a coach who plays a 5 out system and since he's arrived he has traded 5 1st round picks and an All-NBA talent in his prime for Rudy Gobert and a ball pounding PF who is most effective playing like a bulldozer.

Were we going to get fair value for KAT? Maybe. Maybe not.
But the best path forward was always letting KAT be KAT and getting the most out of our supermax player.
That became impossible once he traded for Gobert, so his first mistake is what caused the 2nd.

[BlacJacMac]

Lonzo Ball is also OUT tonight due to "Left Knee; Injury Management," though it's likely he's on the trade block before tomorrow's deadline.

[FrenchMinnyFan]

Funny how people overreacting here. We make a WCF , things that we have to wait very long to make and one more trade ( okay a bad one, KAT), some here pretend that we are done, bad, should tanking next year.... what a joke. We are not that far from our last year level. Trading Randle for a good PG and a back up C and here we are. It's more easy to do it on paper than in the real NBA world but things are not as bad as some people here tell.

[Neeva]

Funny how people overreacting here. We make a WCF , things that we have to wait very long to make and one more trade ( okay a bad one, KAT), some here pretend that we are done, bad, should tanking next year.... what a joke. We are not that far from our last year level. Trading Randle for a good PG and a back up C and here we are. It's more easy to do it on paper than in the real NBA world but things are not as bad as some people here tell.

It’s the same clowns that were saying Kessler was better than Rudy a year and a half ago lol don’t listen to them they are always wrong, and it will be funny in a year in a half more to see how wrong.

[Baseline81]

Funny how people overreacting here. We make a WCF , things that we have to wait very long to make and one more trade ( okay a bad one, KAT), some here pretend that we are done, bad, should tanking next year.... what a joke. We are not that far from our last year level. Trading Randle for a good PG and a back up C and here we are. It's more easy to do it on paper than in the real NBA world but things are not as bad as some people here tell.

It’s the same clowns that were saying Kessler was better than Rudy a year and a half ago lol don’t listen to them they are always wrong, and it will be funny in a year in a half more to see how wrong.

Wrong, I was against the trade for Gobert because of the amount of first round picks in the package. It had nothing to do with Kessler, especially since I wasn't a fan of selecting him in that draft.

For FrenchMinnyFan to gloss over the "okay a bad one, KAT" is understating it. As if it's easy to trade Randle, who has less value than Towns, for a good PG and backup C. Take the blue-tinted glass off please.

Again, team chemistry/cohesion is such a massive benefit. And to make that deal right before training camp...

[LibertyPrime]

SloMo goes to Miami as part of the Butler deal. Wonder if they're intent on keeping him.... I'd like to see him back but I might be alone in that regard.

[Ethomasp31]

Lonzo Ball is also OUT tonight due to "Left Knee; Injury Management," though it's likely he's on the trade block before tomorrow's deadline.

ESPN had an update that he is signing a 2 year $20 extension with Chicago.

[winforlose]

Lonzo Ball is also OUT tonight due to "Left Knee; Injury Management," though it's likely he's on the trade block before tomorrow's deadline.

ESPN had an update that he is signing a 2 year $20 extension with Chicago.

Jack Borman who used to run Canis and does locked on post casts said he believes that extension does not make Lonzo trade ineligible. He also speculated that it might be a precursor to a trade of Randle for Ball and Smith. I hate the idea, but at least the 2nd year is a team option, so we won’t be totally destroyed by it, just badly damaged.

[Klomp]

Lonzo Ball is also OUT tonight due to "Left Knee; Injury Management," though it's likely he's on the trade block before tomorrow's deadline.

ESPN had an update that he is signing a 2 year $20 extension with Chicago.

Jack Borman who used to run Canis and does locked on post casts said he believes that extension does not make Lonzo trade ineligible. He also speculated that it might be a precursor to a trade of Randle for Ball and Smith. I hate the idea, but at least the 2nd year is a team option, so we won’t be totally destroyed by it, just badly damaged.

Here is what he retweeted.

Read on Twitter

Spotrac disagrees, for whatever it's worth.

[winforlose]

ESPN had an update that he is signing a 2 year $20 extension with Chicago.

Jack Borman who used to run Canis and does locked on post casts said he believes that extension does not make Lonzo trade ineligible. He also speculated that it might be a precursor to a trade of Randle for Ball and Smith. I hate the idea, but at least the 2nd year is a team option, so we won’t be totally destroyed by it, just badly damaged.

Here is what he retweeted.

Read on Twitter

Spotrac disagrees, for whatever it's worth.

The math would be complicated and might require a third team. But I would give the Bulls Randle, NAW, Minott, and the Utah 2nd for Smith and White. Bulls either let Randle walk or trade him as an expiring, get an interesting young player in Minott, a high 2nd and NAW for Smith and White. It might not seem like much, but it is mostly consistent with the trade values from this cycle.

[Klomp]

I do wonder what the plan is for Coby White in Chicago.

Lonzo Ball (just extended)
Ayo Dosunmo
Josh Giddey
Kevin Huerter (just acquired)
Tre Jones (just acquired)

I wouldn't hate a White/Williams package for Randle, even though it's future money....

[minimus]

I do wonder what the plan is for Coby White in Chicago.

Lonzo Ball (just extended)
Ayo Dosunmo
Josh Giddey
Kevin Huerter (just acquired)
Tre Jones (just acquired)

I wouldn't hate a White/Williams package for Randle, even though it's future money....

Everytime I watch Pat Williams playing he is awful. Not worth NBA min.deal, let alone 18 mil

[thinktank]

Bulls didn’t trade LaVine to then trade White.

[winforlose]

Bulls didn’t trade LaVine to then trade White.

One would think, but who knows what the Bulls are actually doing. If they are blowing it up (seems likely,) then they should move White, and Randle as a 30 million expiring would be a good vehicle to get bad contracts next season along with some picks.