Shams: Raps acquire Ingram for Brown + Olynyk + IND 1st

[pingpongrac]

Not bad although the fit is weird. Almost feels like we are back to square one with a slightly younger Pascal and a bit more talent.

Trading Pascal was supposed to free up Scottie since they both cannot shoot threes and have overlapping skillsets. Ingram barely shoots the three, Scottie shoots it very poorly and now Siakam is shooting 40% from downtown this season lol.

I have been very down on this team but if we can lock in a good pick in the upcoming draft we could turn this around very quickly.

The past 5 seasons, Siakam took 54% of his shots within 10 feet with a .220 3PAr whereas Ingram took 29% of his shots within 10 feet with a .263 3PAr. One operates in the same space and plays the same position as Scottie plus wasn't a particularly good shooter off the catch (37% on C&S attempts over the same five-year span) while the other is much more of a perimeter scorer that is pretty good off the catch (42% on C&S attempts over the same five-year span). Saying this is the same thing is incredibly disingenuous. I loved Siakam and still think he's a slightly better player than Ingram because he does a bit more overall, but Ingram is undoubtedly the better fit with this core for a variety of reasons.

[RoteSchroder]

Even when he’s selling, he’s buying

[Jim Todd Jr.]

So Siakam does net us something in the end…

Not mad

[PushDaRock]

Please just take a look at his games played over the past years, and how badly he chokes during crunch time.

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We have Barnes, Ingram, RJ, Quickley, Barrett, Dick who can all be used during crunch time lol. We’re not going have to rely on one guy.

RJ, BI, IQ don't complement each other on offense

What's wrong with the offensive fit? They all operate from different areas of the floor.

[Johnny Bball]

Didnt want to give up a first but overall u get a real talent. Let him rest this year.

Are we all just burying our heads in the sand?

Masai is going to evaluate Ingram by playing him when he comes back, in order to decide whether to pay him that 40M AAV contract. More specifically, Ingram will play next to our core of SB+IQ+RJ this season - leading to wins.

We paid more than IND 1st + SRP for Ingram. We are going to pay 2025 FRP draft position just like we did with Poeltl acquisition.

They just got blown out tonight playing rookies and you subtract Brown and Olynk for a guy that doesn't play and CAN'T play because he's injured. Do you ever stop **** complaining?

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Please just take a look at his games played over the past years, and how badly he chokes during crunch time.

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We have Barnes, Ingram, RJ, Quickley, Barrett, Dick who can all be used during crunch time lol. We’re not going have to rely on one guy.

RJ, BI, IQ don't complement each other on offense

Who cares. Right now it’s just about asset accumulation and positioning ourselves for a better player thru trade down the road. With this new cap structure there will be a lot of turnover throughout the league. Just gotta put ourselves in a position to succeed.

[metafisical]

I don't care about the players we gave up. I think the most valuable asset we gave up was the Indy 1st. People are using weird excuses like "omg, you think the Indy pick will turn out to be better than Ingram? That's dumb!".

I care about young, controllable rookie contracts. I am very risk seeking. I prefer a long shot in the lottery than an established player when we are a lotto bound team. Had we been a contender (e.g., when we traded for Leonard), I would not be concerned about trading away a pick. But we have a horrible record. We have no business giving up picks.

Anyway, I hope Ingram stays healthy with us. Knowing our luck Siakim and Halli are going to go down with season ending injuries early next season and NO will get a great pick (which they will mess up, but Masai wouldn't have...).

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

The ultimate play here might be to flip these assets for Giannis if, and when, he becomes available

[Ari_Emanuel]

Might as well have kept og and siakam. Team is back to the same point

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Assuming we get a top 8 pick, we will have gotten younger by an average of maybe 3-5 years while increasing our upside significantly.

[DelAbbot]

Twitter is crazy right now. Half the people think Masai pulled off a heist. The other half think he's lost the plot.

Masai may have just bet his career and reputation on a Brandon Ingram move...

it was like that for the Kawhi and Gasol trades as well....how did that bet work out for Masai

but we were at a point of competitive cycle of multiple 50+ wins with those Kawhi and Gasol trades.

currently we are at competitive cycle of multiple 20+ win seasons.

[PushDaRock]

He has literally never been healthy, outside of his rookie year, what part of that do you not comprehend? Our core 3 scorers are 55, 56, and 53% TS% players, when were we missing inefficient scorers, cause I'm pretty sure we've had those for years.

Im not saying its a guarantee but we do have one of the better health guys in the league. Worked with shaq to keep him healthy in phoenix before joining the raps, kept kawai healthy and playing. No guarantees but if our training/medical staff can keep him healthy and rest him accordingly maybe he can be more reliable

Never worked for OG, hasn't worked for IQ this year, didn't work for BB. By the time Shaq joined PHO he had played 16 seasons, in those 16 seasons he had 4 that were under 60 games played. Ingram is in his 9th, and he's already had 4, with a 5th on the way. Shaq was also 300lbs on a good day, these are not the same situations, we don't have a magic medical staff.

Zion has been hurt enough that we can see what Ingram is like without him. It's still classic "doesn't understand modern shot selection, too many long 2s" stuff.

The more I look at it, the more I think this is a gamble on Ingram needing to play in Darko's "0.5 offense" and hoping that will turn him into a more efficient offensive player.

I see these teams like Memphis and OKC and their wings mostly look like and play like football players, and RJ/Dick/Ingram give off more of a runway model/pole vaulter slenderman vibe. And I think that hurts you on defence a lot.

That's likely the thought process. RJ has gone from an inefficient chucker to league average efficiency as a Raptor. Ingram is very talented and if they can remove some of the bad shots he takes, the ability is probably there for him to be a 60+ TS% guy especially on this team where he wouldn't be carrying the offensive scoring load by himself.

55% TS% is not league average efficiency. 55.4% is league average for a point guard. The lowest of all the positions.

You're correct of course but RJ isn't at 55 TS%, he's at 57.6 TS% as a Raptor.

[Johnny Bball]

You can gurantee Masai is gonna overpay to keep him too

I mean... the can probably get the same (1 pick in the second half of the draft) or better in a sign and trade by not signing him, if someone else wanted to. There's not enough cap space out there for anyone that is competing to sign him outright.

[ConSarnit]

Didnt want to give up a first but overall u get a real talent. Let him rest this year.

Are we all just burying our heads in the sand?

Masai is going to evaluate Ingram by playing him when he comes back, in order to decide whether to pay him that 40M AAV contract. More specifically, Ingram will play next to our core of SB+IQ+RJ this season - leading to wins.

We paid more than IND 1st + SRP for Ingram. We are going to pay 2025 FRP draft position just like we did with Poeltl acquisition.

They just got blown out tonight playing rookies and you subtract Brown and Olynk for a guy that doesn't play and CAN'T play because he's injured. Do you ever stop **** complaining?

Are you talking about Ingram as the guy who doesn’t play?

[Risk101]

FYI Darko is only here to develop players.

Not take them into deep playoff runs.

He’ll be fired for the future Nick Nurse.

Keep pounding the rock.

[pingpongrac]

Of course there’s people crying about the Pacers pick after saying it wasn’t good value for the past year

Yep. That Pacers pick was and is still decent value, but the fact that we essentially traded it along with two vets that aren't of much value to us right now for Ingram is a huge win. If all it takes is a late teens/early 20s pick to get an all-star talent in his prime, you make that deal every single time.

[SFour]

Twitter is crazy right now. Half the people think Masai pulled off a heist. The other half think he's lost the plot.

Masai may have just bet his career and reputation on a Brandon Ingram move...

it was like that for the Kawhi and Gasol trades as well....how did that bet work out for Masai

but we were at a point of competitive cycle of multiple 50+ wins with those Kawhi and Gasol trades.

currently we are at competitive cycle of multiple 20+ win seasons.

as long as Raptors get a top pick in this draft things should be good.....if they didn't have that then I'd be more worried.

If they jump into the top 3 pick you can't say that they wouldn't be in a pretty good position.

[ForeverTFC]

Please just take a look at his games played over the past years, and how badly he chokes during crunch time.

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We have Barnes, Ingram, RJ, Quickley, Barrett, Dick who can all be used during crunch time lol. We’re not going have to rely on one guy.

RJ, BI, IQ don't complement each other on offense

Remove RJ and the fit is much better

[DelAbbot]

If he plays this year (and they dont rest random starters the same days) it was a bad trade as it is exactly what happened the year of the purtle trade. If he doesnt play this year and is re-signed to a reasonable amount the trade is fine.

if he could be re-signed to a reasonable amount, why wouldn't Pelicans just resign BI at that amount...

[_MidNight_]

What's the protection on the pick? Please be lottery protected!

[duppyy]

I like Ingram but need to see where we finish in the standings after this season, how much we pay him and how many games he can stay healthy to gauge if this was good or not.