Shams: Raps acquire Ingram for Brown + Olynyk + IND 1st

[LoveMyRaps]

Also it’s a well known fact that the Pels have the worst medical staff in the league.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

RJ, BI, IQ don't complement each other on offense

Who cares. Right now it’s just about asset accumulation and positioning ourselves for a better player thru trade down the road. With this new cap structure there will be a lot of turnover throughout the league. Just gotta put ourselves in a position to succeed.

I have questions about “asset accumulation”. Seemingly there was very little market for Ingram because of his salary expectations. So we’re going to pay this guy that no one really wanted and all of a sudden he’s going to be an “asset”?

This is a good point. Masai has to sign him to a reasonable contract. What works in our favor is that the teams that have loads of capspace namely the nets and spurs would have no interest in signing him.

[DelAbbot]

it was like that for the Kawhi and Gasol trades as well....how did that bet work out for Masai

but we were at a point of competitive cycle of multiple 50+ wins with those Kawhi and Gasol trades.

currently we are at competitive cycle of multiple 20+ win seasons.

as long as Raptors get a top pick in this draft things should be good.....if they didn't have that then I'd be more worried.

If they jump into the top 3 pick you can't say that they wouldn't be in a pretty good position.

if they jump top 4 then yes good position. what a gamble if we slip in draft position due to this

[ConSarnit]

I’ll keep an open mind. I prefer BI sit out the majority of this years games to “recover”.

So the plan is to sit him out the majority of games, not get a good look at him with the rest of the team and then re-sign him for big money without really knowing how he fits on the team? This is an awful plan.

The team needs to start sitting some of the starter players every game, not only Ingram. Besides, he is a proven player, 90% chance he'll be fine if healthy.

That’s all well and good outside of the fact that he’s proven he can’t really stay healthy in his career.

And if your plan is to tank that becomes much harder when you add more starter level players to your roster.

Again, this is a really bad plan if we’re trying to continue to tank.

[Tripod]

The key things that will matter are what happens with our pick this year, and Ingram’s contract.

Yup.

That's what matters now.

As a side note, I do wonder who we add as a back up C. Maybe there is a Davion for a C deal out there somewhere since Shead is playing well.

[ItsDanger]

Our starting 5 moving forward might be around $155M. Maybe more if Masai overpays Ingram.

[DreamTeam09]

Pascal + Thad
For
Ingram + Ochai + Walter. Fair

[AkelaLoneWolf]

RJ, BI, IQ don't complement each other on offense

Who cares. Right now it’s just about asset accumulation and positioning ourselves for a better player thru trade down the road. With this new cap structure there will be a lot of turnover throughout the league. Just gotta put ourselves in a position to succeed.

We are not accumulating "assets" if the "assets" are all slightly overpaid or well overpaid if they turn out injury prone.

Something around 30-35M is fine. 40M and over is Lavine territory

[mihaic]

That's likely the thought process. RJ has gone from an inefficient chucker to league average efficiency as a Raptor. Ingram is very talented and if they can remove some of the bad shots he takes, the ability is probably there for him to be a 60+ TS% guy especially on this team where he wouldn't be carrying the offensive scoring load by himself.

Yeah, I can't imagine they're gonna let him take a bunch of terrible shots. Although we are somehow 29th in 3pt shots attempted, so who the hell knows?

Worth noting that looking at it year by year, he cut his 3PT% heavily when Willie Green was hired, after shooting more of them for Van Gundy and Gentry. I read that he has a slow release, so maybe it got slower or teams closed out harder on it? He did get more assists.

Also worth noting that Ainge could have beaten this offer (they have an extra first every season and 3 one year) but chose not to, and they need wings and he generally picks them well, or at least he did until this Cody Williams pick (It's crazy early, but he's the same age as Buzelis - who went right after - and Buzelis looks more likely be good).

Tbh it is not clear what Utah are doing. I think they plan to tank for another year or 2. Masai, not so much I guess.

[twiggy2]

I don't like it. Just read an article on sports illustrated that he wanted a max contract from the pels. This is a solid draft at the top. I never wanted to be the worst team in the league but the 11th pick would be devastating.

[Yallbecrazy]

I don't care about the players we gave up. I think the most valuable asset we gave up was the Indy 1st. People are using weird excuses like "omg, you think the Indy pick will turn out to be better than Ingram? That's dumb!".

I care about young, controllable rookie contracts. I am very risk seeking. I prefer a long shot in the lottery than an established player when we are a lotto bound team. Had we been a contender (e.g., when we traded for Leonard), I would not be concerned about trading away a pick. But we have a horrible record. We have no business giving up picks.

Anyway, I hope Ingram stays healthy with us. Knowing our luck Siakim and Halli are going to go down with season ending injuries early next season and NO will get a great pick (which they will mess up, but Masai wouldn't have...).

I agree somewhat, but the Raptors have a decent core already. They don't want to tank for too long, and I think they may not see a lot of value in the 2026 draft. They aren't that far away from competing. Poeltl + Barnes + Ingram + Quickley is a pretty damn good starting lineup and add Dick, Barrett, 2025 1st as starters/ rotation pieces and you have a team with one good other bench piece that can compete as a top 10/12 team. (Good chance one of Walter, Mogbo, Shead becomes that other piece, but they also have the ability to add another with MLE)

[PushDaRock]

That's likely the thought process. RJ has gone from an inefficient chucker to league average efficiency as a Raptor. Ingram is very talented and if they can remove some of the bad shots he takes, the ability is probably there for him to be a 60+ TS% guy especially on this team where he wouldn't be carrying the offensive scoring load by himself.

Yeah, I can't imagine they're gonna let him take a bunch of terrible shots. Although we are somehow 29th in 3pt shots attempted, so who the hell knows?

Worth noting that looking at it year by year, he cut his 3PT% heavily when Willie Green was hired, after shooting more of them for Van Gundy and Gentry. I read that he has a slow release, so maybe it got slower or teams closed out harder on it? He did get more assists.

Also worth noting that Ainge could have beaten this offer (they have an extra first every season and 3 one year) but chose not to, and they need wings and he generally picks them well, or at least he did until this Cody Williams pick (It's crazy early, but he's the same age as Buzelis - who went right after - and Buzelis looks more likely be good).

His 3 point shooting volume is back up this year albeit in a more limited sample size, I would expect him to take a lot of them on our team. Darko wants this team taking more 3's, it's more of a skill issue why we don't.

[DelAbbot]

Who cares. Right now it’s just about asset accumulation and positioning ourselves for a better player thru trade down the road. With this new cap structure there will be a lot of turnover throughout the league. Just gotta put ourselves in a position to succeed.

We are not accumulating "assets" if the "assets" are all slightly overpaid or well overpaid if they turn out injury prone.

Something around 30-35M is fine. 40M and over is Lavine territory

ok cool. we will circle back to this in about 6 months

[ConSarnit]

Also it’s a well known fact that the Pels have the worst medical staff in the league.

He had 1 season in LA where he played over 60 games. Does their medical staff suck too?

[RoteSchroder]

We have Barnes, Ingram, RJ, Quickley, Barrett, Dick who can all be used during crunch time lol. We’re not going have to rely on one guy.

RJ, BI, IQ don't complement each other on offense

Remove RJ and the fit is much better

who's getting to the paint? or are Scottie, Ingram and IQ just gonna take turns shooting jumpers?

Ingram gets to the basket less than Scottie, roflmao

[dublo7]

can BI defend i see the offensive stats but i'm not getting a good feel for his defensive ability.
Is this a guy they want to flip by 1500 today or in the off-season? i just get an A Wiggins coast feel from BI.
Acceptable cost for the trade imho.

[Wo1verine]

I like the trade personally we gave up meh and got a former all-star aged 27, who by all accounts would like to be here and play with Scottie - they’ll probably pay him for $35-$40M per to form a fun 1-2 duo with Barnes.

Let’s hope he sits majority of the year tho for obvious reasons.

[mathgeek]

Ingram's been available for 67% of regular season games since his rookie year.

He was "cheap" to acquire because he's a pending free agent, constantly injured and you have to pay him around 35 million dollars to keep him past this season. And even when he does play, he's a fringe low tier star caliber guy, not a huge ceiling raiser for this mediocre group we have.

It seems like the end game for Masai is to get to that coveted 6-10 range as early as next season, and even in that context it's just an okay move just because he probably misses a good chunk of time like he does every season.

Accept that this franchise operates likes the Kings/Hawks/Bulls/Pacers. The goal is to get back to around 44-51 wins every year, stay under the tax to collect luxury tax share, make some playoff gate money and appeal to the casual fan. There is no mandate to win a championship.

Exactly this Ingram is a lesser version of Derozan. Yes we got better but for what? To get us back on the treadmill and get fans back on the seata and excited for a treadmill team. Everyone knows the best way to build a sustainable long term team is through the draft with young players until you find the one. Scottie is not that guy, his game has major flaws and he's a complimentary third option on a championship team.

[dublo7]

Ingram killed us last year one game hitting like 7-8 3s.

Need Alex McKechnie to do a miracle on ingram

i remember that... he was on fiyah

[Ell Curry]

I don't care about the players we gave up. I think the most valuable asset we gave up was the Indy 1st. People are using weird excuses like "omg, you think the Indy pick will turn out to be better than Ingram? That's dumb!".

I care about young, controllable rookie contracts. I am very risk seeking. I prefer a long shot in the lottery than an established player when we are a lotto bound team. Had we been a contender (e.g., when we traded for Leonard), I would not be concerned about trading away a pick. But we have a horrible record. We have no business giving up picks.

Anyway, I hope Ingram stays healthy with us. Knowing our luck Siakim and Halli are going to go down with season ending injuries early next season and NO will get a great pick (which they will mess up, but Masai wouldn't have...).

Yeah, I don't see why we gave up a first when we don't know if this iteration of the team will even work.

Would it really be shocking if Barnes peaks as like the 30th best guy in the league (that's still pretty damn good, it's like the Trae Young/Harden/Garland/Adebayo kinda zone, just looking at say the ringer rankings which aren't perfect but probably aren't extremely far off) and we peak as a low 40s win team and have to move him and rebuild again?

If we get a first for RJ, and this is just Ingram for RJ basically, then I've got no beef whatsoever with the move.