2024-25 NBA MVP Discussion Thread (Pt. 3: Son of daughter of MVP thread)

[RRR3]

I'm not here to make friends. Every once in a while I have to stop by in this thread and remind some people that SGA is, in fact, not a better player than Jokic and is not having a better season. It's all team record.

See you again in a few weeks.

Except it's entirely arguable SGA has been having a better season. You can stomp your feet and whine all you want, but all the data suggests it's basically a toss up between the two in terms of how much they're impacting the game. Saying either is clearly ahead reveals bias.

[SpurNani]

I'm not here to make friends. Every once in a while I have to stop by in this thread and remind some people that SGA is, in fact, not a better player than Jokic and is not having a better season. It's all team record.

See you again in a few weeks.

If being the best player automatically meant you're the mvp, then surely LeBron would have 10+ mvps right? Wrong

[RRR3]

I'm not here to make friends. Every once in a while I have to stop by in this thread and remind some people that SGA is, in fact, not a better player than Jokic and is not having a better season. It's all team record.

See you again in a few weeks.

If being the best player automatically meant you're the mvp, then surely LeBron would have 10+ mvps right? Wrong

It's also extremely debatable whether Jokic is having a better season than SGA. Arguments that Jokic is better because of past playoff performances have nothing to do with who's been better in this regular season which is what the MVP is based on.

[Rdude22]

I'm not here to make friends. Every once in a while I have to stop by in this thread and remind some people that SGA is, in fact, not a better player than Jokic and is not having a better season. It's all team record.

See you again in a few weeks.

We're not here to be your friend. However, we will provide a friendly reminder that SGA is still the front-runner for MVP tho!

See you again in a few weeks

[AmIWrongDude]

- Thunder are the first seed and 9 games up on Denver
- Shai is playing just as good as Jokic when you factor in defense

I don’t see how you could possibly give it to Jokic if the season ended today. Would be a terrible decision.

[kazyv]

SGA isn't doing anything all that special recently other than scoring, but ESPN/the media and the casuals sure love those beautiful beautiful points per game so that has to look good to the mouth breathers out there.

Jokic has had a better year, and definitely a better run so far in 2025. Easy vote for January's player of the month.

Since January started the Thunder have been 13-4 and the Nuggets have been 14-6. Things are evening out between the two teams, but Denver's slow start still stands out.

Denver is very close go grabbing that three seed, and I would not be surprised if they end up at 2. They'll win over 50 games.

It's easy to see team record is still the main, and only, argument SGA has over Jokic. That extra 3.0 ppg doesn't make up for the fact that Jokic, a center, has almost twice as many assists as SGA, a point guard. SGA just doesn't have to do as much as Jokic for his team to win. A simple fact. We've moved past the point that the most PPG in the NBA on the team with the best record doesn't automatically equal MVP. SGA needs to do more for it to be fair.

3 ppg on that level is kind of a big deal though. there's a reason people post about jokic's 30 PER and not about 28 or 29 PER. when you get to that level, it gets tough to get even better. and SGA is easily ahead in actual production too, at 1526 to 1300 points. so it's not a case of Embiid who got to pick and choose when and where to strike. he's producing at this outstandingly high level every night.

[Exp0sed]

- Thunder are the first seed and 9 games up on Denver
- Shai is playing just as good as Jokic when you factor in defense

I don’t see how you could possibly give it to Jokic if the season ended today. Would be a terrible decision.

I don't think that's in any real contention
we all agree SGA is the MVP if the season ended today, no?

no need to factor in "defense" btw, defense is already factored in the win column. it's redundant to factor it in twice

[Exp0sed]

SGA isn't doing anything all that special recently other than scoring, but ESPN/the media and the casuals sure love those beautiful beautiful points per game so that has to look good to the mouth breathers out there.

Jokic has had a better year, and definitely a better run so far in 2025. Easy vote for January's player of the month.

Since January started the Thunder have been 13-4 and the Nuggets have been 14-6. Things are evening out between the two teams, but Denver's slow start still stands out.

Denver is very close go grabbing that three seed, and I would not be surprised if they end up at 2. They'll win over 50 games.

It's easy to see team record is still the main, and only, argument SGA has over Jokic. That extra 3.0 ppg doesn't make up for the fact that Jokic, a center, has almost twice as many assists as SGA, a point guard. SGA just doesn't have to do as much as Jokic for his team to win. A simple fact. We've moved past the point that the most PPG in the NBA on the team with the best record doesn't automatically equal MVP. SGA needs to do more for it to be fair.

3 ppg on that level is kind of a big deal though. there's a reason people post about jokic's 30 PER and not about 28 or 29 PER. when you get to that level, it gets tough to get even better. and SGA is easily ahead in actual production too, at 1526 to 1300 points. so it's not a case of Embiid who got to pick and choose when and where to strike. he's producing at this outstandingly high level every night.

Gargamel, ur selling SGA way short when u argue he hasn't been doing anything special lately other than scoring - he's being unstoppable and unguardable almost every night, despite missing key starters for all this stretch. in theory, if SGA "just scores" and his teammates aren't all that offensively, shouldn't opposing teams be able to load up on him and take away some of his scoring and scoring efficiency? but we're seeing the opposite. despite SGA being the main threat offensively that teams are game planning for - nobody seems to even be slowing him down. saying he's "just scoring" is a bad take and def sounds rooted in homerism

I get it but..come on now

[Richard Miller]

SGA isn't doing anything all that special recently other than scoring, but ESPN/the media and the casuals sure love those beautiful beautiful points per game so that has to look good to the mouth breathers out there.

Jokic has had a better year, and definitely a better run so far in 2025. Easy vote for January's player of the month.

Since January started the Thunder have been 13-4 and the Nuggets have been 14-6. Things are evening out between the two teams, but Denver's slow start still stands out.

Denver is very close go grabbing that three seed, and I would not be surprised if they end up at 2. They'll win over 50 games.

It's easy to see team record is still the main, and only, argument SGA has over Jokic. That extra 3.0 ppg doesn't make up for the fact that Jokic, a center, has almost twice as many assists as SGA, a point guard. SGA just doesn't have to do as much as Jokic for his team to win. A simple fact. We've moved past the point that the most PPG in the NBA on the team with the best record doesn't automatically equal MVP. SGA needs to do more for it to be fair.

3 ppg on that level is kind of a big deal though. there's a reason people post about jokic's 30 PER and not about 28 or 29 PER. when you get to that level, it gets tough to get even better. and SGA is easily ahead in actual production too, at 1526 to 1300 points. so it's not a case of Embiid who got to pick and choose when and where to strike. he's producing at this outstandingly high level every night.

If they got the same whistle Jokic would easily have more than 3 ppg (or SGA less); in January SGA was averaging nearly twice more FTs

[MMyhre]

It is when certain teams have a history of cracking under pressure.

I mean, yeah they lost in 6 to Dallas last year on a bad late foul by SGA. A Dallas team, by the way, who easily went on to handle Minnesota who beat Denver in the previous round. And I'll repeat, those Twolves who beat Denver had never won a single playoff series together prior to last year. It denounces your entire experience theory in relation to beating Denver, who is as unproven as any of the other top teams in the west this year. Their title in 23 was related to the competition they faced, as evidenced by last years series loss vs the inexperienced twolves (who were better than any teams they faced in 2023). All their title in 23 proved was that they could beat those weaker teams, which we already know. Can Denver beat a true championship contender? We'll see this year.

Hold.....

Did you not realize that 3 of Denver's rotational players were injured last year?

Good lord

Go pray at your altar of Jokic and relax now buddy

[MMyhre]

I'm not here to make friends. Every once in a while I have to stop by in this thread and remind some people that SGA is, in fact, not a better player than Jokic and is not having a better season. It's all team record.

See you again in a few weeks.

SGA keeps dropping 50 to prove bums like you wrong though

[DrModesty]

SGA isn't doing anything all that special recently other than scoring, but ESPN/the media and the casuals sure love those beautiful beautiful points per game so that has to look good to the mouth breathers out there.

Jokic has had a better year, and definitely a better run so far in 2025. Easy vote for January's player of the month.

Since January started the Thunder have been 13-4 and the Nuggets have been 14-6. Things are evening out between the two teams, but Denver's slow start still stands out.

Denver is very close go grabbing that three seed, and I would not be surprised if they end up at 2. They'll win over 50 games.

It's easy to see team record is still the main, and only, argument SGA has over Jokic. That extra 3.0 ppg doesn't make up for the fact that Jokic, a center, has almost twice as many assists as SGA, a point guard. SGA just doesn't have to do as much as Jokic for his team to win. A simple fact. We've moved past the point that the most PPG in the NBA on the team with the best record doesn't automatically equal MVP. SGA needs to do more for it to be fair.

3 ppg on that level is kind of a big deal though. there's a reason people post about jokic's 30 PER and not about 28 or 29 PER. when you get to that level, it gets tough to get even better. and SGA is easily ahead in actual production too, at 1526 to 1300 points. so it's not a case of Embiid who got to pick and choose when and where to strike. he's producing at this outstandingly high level every night.

If they got the same whistle Jokic would easily have more than 3 ppg (or SGA less); in January SGA was averaging nearly twice more FTs

People won't like to hear this, but SGA should be shooting more free throws than he is as it stands. His game is like Giannis, Butler and Brunson wrapped in to one guy as far as generating free throws is concerned. And given his shooting volume and playstyle he should really be in double digit attempts per game.

[MMyhre]

Joker fanatics when they see SGA leading the MVP race =

Watch on YouTube

[Andri]

My humble take.

Is SGA on pace to win MVP over Joking? Yes
Does OKC support cast is better that Denver? Yes
Is Jokic still the better player in a vacuum? Yes

As an analogy, go and look at the MVPs through last 20 years. Not always the best player wins the MVP.

[hardenASG13]

It is when certain teams have a history of cracking under pressure.

I mean, yeah they lost in 6 to Dallas last year on a bad late foul by SGA. A Dallas team, by the way, who easily went on to handle Minnesota who beat Denver in the previous round. And I'll repeat, those Twolves who beat Denver had never won a single playoff series together prior to last year. It denounces your entire experience theory in relation to beating Denver, who is as unproven as any of the other top teams in the west this year. Their title in 23 was related to the competition they faced, as evidenced by last years series loss vs the inexperienced twolves (who were better than any teams they faced in 2023). All their title in 23 proved was that they could beat those weaker teams, which we already know. Can Denver beat a true championship contender? We'll see this year.

Hold.....

Did you not realize that 3 of Denver's rotational players were injured last year?

Good lord

I realize that most teams will have a couple rotational players banged up by the playoffs every year. I also realize that Denver was the healthiest team in 23 among contenders. Lots of realizing.

[Richard Miller]

3 ppg on that level is kind of a big deal though. there's a reason people post about jokic's 30 PER and not about 28 or 29 PER. when you get to that level, it gets tough to get even better. and SGA is easily ahead in actual production too, at 1526 to 1300 points. so it's not a case of Embiid who got to pick and choose when and where to strike. he's producing at this outstandingly high level every night.

If they got the same whistle Jokic would easily have more than 3 ppg (or SGA less); in January SGA was averaging nearly twice more FTs

People won't like to hear this, but SGA should be shooting more free throws than he is as it stands. His game is like Giannis, Butler and Brunson wrapped in to one guy as far as generating free throws is concerned. And given his shooting volume and playstyle he should really be in double digit attempts per game.

Yup no doubt, but in any case shouldn't go just by scoring, there is a separate scoring title thing anyway

[The-Power]

SGA and Jokic are both having high-level MVP seasons. Both compare well to the best regular seasons in NBA history. How about trying to enjoy both players and the history they are making? If you can't appreciate greatness when it's staring you right in your face, you're missing out and that's a pity. For you.

[greekman]

My humble take.

Does OKC support cast is better that Denver? Yes

serious or kidding ? williams, wiggins, joe, etc is not even in the same realm as muray, porter, gordon, westbrook etc

[Andri]

My humble take.

Does OKC support cast is better that Denver? Yes

serious or kidding ? williams, wiggins, joe, etc is not even in the same realm as muray, porter, gordon, westbrook etc

Seriously. Better constructed and deeper. And hungrier. I would say that assessment is valid for RS. I am yet to judge for a POs run

[MoneyTalks41890]

SGA now about to overtake Jokic in estimated EPM (factoring prior years) and still comfortably ahead in actual EPM.

I think this is kind of like an old money and new money thing. I wouldn’t say I think SGA is better than Jokic or anything. But the ones who say he’s not close are relying on reflexes and opinions rather than the stats and analytics and results on the court.